So Why Not A Who's Who Of Gay Heroes (M & F).........

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Methos says:

"ok, now i'm curious... Sex is a important part of life, hell it;s an omportant part of being human. why shouldn't it pop up in comics? i mean we've had storylines for ever sexuality in comics so far, Superman & Lois (Straight), Midnighter & Apollo (Gay), Supergirl (probably bisexual lol)... but then they have also been some really good storylines that don't deal with the hero's sexuality, but his reaction to how other people deal with sexuality. i bring you're attention to some of the later issues of Kyle Rayner, when he found on his assistant was gay and his parents had thrown him out of the house. it was a long running storyline that actually finished when Terry (The assistant) got assaulted by a gang of 'gay bashers' in the street. Kyle (as green lantern) found out about this and after quite a long storyline involving him going off the deep end for a while, he actually decided to leave earth because he'd lost his faith in humanity. M"

True, STRAIGHT sexual content. Once you start getting into homosexual sex, which is still considered by MOST a moral question, and an un-natural (by biological definition) act, it becomes nugatory and senseless from the perspective of purpose. Sex as an act is really meant for ONE purpose, to REPRODUCE!!!! the fact it 'feels good' is superfluous in the greater good, so interaction in comics between male and female is natural, expected, and purposeful. Homosexual additions to comics are a creation of the late 90's for the most part, essentially a 'neo' creation to serve a political agenda. Most writers are liberal, hence feel the "need" to be inclusive for as many readers as they can. Its WRONG! period, and serves to promote, and almost glorify, an un-natural state/act (regardless of personal opinions that is) by showing that "even superheroes are gay" which is somehow inteded to what? make it right? or natural? If you're gay, fine, I have no problem with you personally. However, keep your lifestye and sexual orientation OUT of my life and forms of entertainment, it doesn't belong there! *p.s.* I mean no personal attack towards anyone, its just my response to Meth based on my opinion of the subject. "

So we should have comics for gay people and comics for straight people, that way gays get to see gays and straight people get to see straight people. I get where you are coming from. Who wants gay people in their lives or their entertainment. We should put them on seperate buses and make them eat at different restaurants. Actually, we should just put them in camps, with guards to make sure they don't get out....

right... firstly i know you don't mean any offense by that but in all fairness i must shout WTF at the top of my voice...

you're stating Homosexuality as wrong... might i ask what you base this on?

the first time homosexuality was said to be wrong was in the bible, around 1,600 years ago ok?

right the human race has been around a lot longer than that.

in fact, the oldest religion on the planet, paganism (the first person to start shouting about devil worship gets their IP slapped), which dates back to 3,200BC, actually used homosexuality in their belief system.

but if you are completely open to Christianity then isn't it said that you shouldn't judge someone? it's their beliefs that matter and only God can judge them?

i believe that comes under the greatest gift God gave humanity in the bible, free will.

Homosexual people could say the same thing about having straight relationships in comics, hell why don't we go the whole way and say any open religion in comics is offensive and should be banned? why not any sexuality that isn't mainstream? BDSM? Bacchanals?

if you took them out of comics then a lot of the mainstream superheroines would have to be canceled as well.

now i bring Wonder Woman to your attention, or specifically the Amazon's. they live on a island of only women, is that type of Homosexuality offensive as well? or is it just the male / male side that offends people?

you can't have it both ways.

M

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the latest parts of the Bible were written by no later than 70 AD and the Pentateuch (which I'm sure I mispelled, but Genesis to Deuteronomy anyway) are about 3400 years old.

O.K.

many of you are missing the point, the MAIN point! OPINIONS aside (anyones that is) I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but please, PAY ATTENTION!!!!

Homosexuality, by NATURE...serves no purpose, understand? Hetrosexual relations serve its intended purpose, REPRODUCTION OF THE HUMAN SPECIES!!!!....period! THAT is the BIOLOGICAL intention of sexual intercourse, not to have a good time. Regardless of personal opinions on this subject, the country is roughly (census figures) 2% gay populated (about 20 million) that is a SEVERE MINORITY folks, don't kid yourself because of personal associations you may have. To attempt to "muddy the waters" by making homosexuality naturally integrated into American society is an agenda, bottomline...it doesn't float.

Also, many of you are trying to associate rascism to this subject, no a good analogy at all. Its not about HATE its about design, purpose, and intention...and a minority, un-natural, sexual orientation shouldn't be included in comics (just my opinion) what's next? sex with animals in comics? bothers and sisters? childern and parents? very slippery slope...so called 'tolerence" is going to make for a MUCH more in-tolerant society long term, trust me.

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"O.K.many of you are missing the point, the MAIN point! OPINIONS aside (anyones that is) I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but please, PAY ATTENTION!!!!Homosexuality, by NATURE...serves no purpose, understand? Hetrosexual relations serve its intended purpose, REPRODUCTION OF THE HUMAN SPECIES!!!!....period! THAT is the BIOLOGICAL intention of sexual intercourse, not to have a good time. Regardless of personal opinions on this subject, the country is roughly (census figures) 2% gay populated (about 20 million) that is a SEVERE MINORITY folks, don't kid yourself because of personal associations you may have. To attempt to "muddy the waters" by making homosexuality naturally integrated into American society is an agenda, bottomline...it doesn't float.Also, many of you are trying to associate rascism to this subject, no a good analogy at all. Its not about HATE its about design, purpose, and intention...and a minority, un-natural, sexual orientation shouldn't be included in comics (just my opinion) what's next? sex with animals in comics? bothers and sisters? childern and parents? very slippery slope...so called 'tolerence" is going to make for a MUCH more in-tolerant society long term, trust me."

yet you never answered my question you are ignoring it completly. What does heterosexual intercourse and violence serve in comics

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"O.K. many of you are missing the point, the MAIN point! OPINIONS aside (anyones that is) I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but please, PAY ATTENTION!!!! Homosexuality, by NATURE...serves no purpose, understand? Hetrosexual relations serve its intended purpose, REPRODUCTION OF THE HUMAN SPECIES!!!!....period! THAT is the BIOLOGICAL intention of sexual intercourse, not to have a good time. Regardless of personal opinions on this subject, the country is roughly (census figures) 2% gay populated (about 20 million) that is a SEVERE MINORITY folks, don't kid yourself because of personal associations you may have. To attempt to "muddy the waters" by making homosexuality naturally integrated into American society is an agenda, bottomline...it doesn't float. Also, many of you are trying to associate rascism to this subject, no a good analogy at all. Its not about HATE its about design, purpose, and intention...and a minority, un-natural, sexual orientation shouldn't be included in comics (just my opinion) what's next? sex with animals in comics? bothers and sisters? childern and parents? very slippery slope...so called 'tolerence" is going to make for a MUCH more in-tolerant society long term, trust me."

your a disgarce to the human race.

Darkchild says:

"Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"O.K.many of you are missing the point, the MAIN point! OPINIONS aside (anyones that is) I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but please, PAY ATTENTION!!!!Homosexuality, by NATURE...serves no purpose, understand? Hetrosexual relations serve its intended purpose, REPRODUCTION OF THE HUMAN SPECIES!!!!....period! THAT is the BIOLOGICAL intention of sexual intercourse, not to have a good time. Regardless of personal opinions on this subject, the country is roughly (census figures) 2% gay populated (about 20 million) that is a SEVERE MINORITY folks, don't kid yourself because of personal associations you may have. To attempt to "muddy the waters" by making homosexuality naturally integrated into American society is an agenda, bottomline...it doesn't float.Also, many of you are trying to associate rascism to this subject, no a good analogy at all. Its not about HATE its about design, purpose, and intention...and a minority, un-natural, sexual orientation shouldn't be included in comics (just my opinion) what's next? sex with animals in comics? bothers and sisters? childern and parents? very slippery slope...so called 'tolerence" is going to make for a MUCH more in-tolerant society long term, trust me."

yet you never answered my question you are ignoring it completly. What does heterosexual intercourse and violence serve in comics"

I'm not ignoring my firend, just didn't think such a silly question needed an answer. (sorry, but true)

HETROSEXUAL relations, and VIOLENCE..are NATURAL, everyday occurences of human life. They touch and interact with EVERYONE at some point in their existance...homosexuality, does not!

based on your diction, and grasp of vocabulary, I have the same thoughts of you....

WTF

Homosexuality is part of peoples existance u mook. Gay people live it and breath it. Its an everyday occurrence for them.

Ya know what i know your not a BIGOT so i will let this go. I just think that people need to realize not everyone likes what they do or what anyone else does. Wouldnt it be pretty damn boring if we were all the same

You do know that gay people write and draw comic books right?

Also, you were the one who said you didn't want gay people's sexuality and lifestyle out of your life and entertainment. I just drew that sentiment along for you to a larger scale, a little 'what if' if you will.

Methos says:

"sorry... what?i'm still happy with my image of Supergirl and Poison Ivy ;)M"

me 2 :)

-Lord Of Darkness- says:

"Methos says:

"sorry... what? i'm still happy with my image of Supergirl and Poison Ivy ;) M"

me 2 :)"

i think we all are.

MR.U your focusing on the phyisical act of gay sex. If youv ever been in a reletionship male female whatever youd know better then to focus on that.

I'm tempted to have that as my desktop wallpaper.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"You do know that gay people write and draw comic books right?Also, you were the one who said you didn't want gay people's sexuality and lifestyle out of your life and entertainment. I just drew that sentiment along for you to a larger scale, a little 'what if' if you will."

I do, and they should keep their lifestyles OUT of the comics they work on. If they do NOT...its an agenda, based on a need to proliferate. Look, i'm not going to defend myself from my opinions, and I know quite a few homosexuals myself, all good people (btw).

AGAIN, homosexuality is NOT the norm, PERIOD! and it IS biologically un-natural by definition. Hence, if you wirte about it in a public forum, you are attempting to make it inculsive to the masses, and i personally think that is wrong. Just as I would if things were the opposite, and man on man sex could produce offspring.

Man, many of you just can't get past the bias you hold, and give some intellectual perspective to your thoughts....sheesh

Spectrum says:

"-Lord Of Darkness- says:

"Methos says:

"sorry... what? i'm still happy with my image of Supergirl and Poison Ivy ;) M"

me 2 :)"

i think we all are.

MR.U your focusing on the phyisical act of gay sex. If youv ever been in a reletionship male female whatever youd know better then to focus on that."

sounds like someone has good expirience in that <.<

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Cosmic Sentinel says:

"You do know that gay people write and draw comic books right? Also, you were the one who said you didn't want gay people's sexuality and lifestyle out of your life and entertainment. I just drew that sentiment along for you to a larger scale, a little 'what if' if you will."

I do, and they should keep their lifestyles OUT of the comics they work on. If they do NOT...its an agenda, based on a need to proliferate. Look, i'm not going to defend myself from my opinions, and I know quite a few homosexuals myself, all good people (btw). AGAIN, homosexuality is NOT the norm, PERIOD! and it IS biologically un-natural by definition. Hence, if you wirte about it in a public forum, you are attempting to make it inculsive to the masses, and i personally think that is wrong. Just as I would if things were the opposite, and man on man sex could produce offspring. Man, many of you just can't get past the bias you hold, and give some intellectual perspective to your thoughts....sheesh"

if youll read my post i said something vey valid.

A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want.

B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex.

If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans?????

Spectrum says:

"Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Cosmic Sentinel says:

"You do know that gay people write and draw comic books right? Also, you were the one who said you didn't want gay people's sexuality and lifestyle out of your life and entertainment. I just drew that sentiment along for you to a larger scale, a little 'what if' if you will."

I do, and they should keep their lifestyles OUT of the comics they work on. If they do NOT...its an agenda, based on a need to proliferate. Look, i'm not going to defend myself from my opinions, and I know quite a few homosexuals myself, all good people (btw). AGAIN, homosexuality is NOT the norm, PERIOD! and it IS biologically un-natural by definition. Hence, if you wirte about it in a public forum, you are attempting to make it inculsive to the masses, and i personally think that is wrong. Just as I would if things were the opposite, and man on man sex could produce offspring. Man, many of you just can't get past the bias you hold, and give some intellectual perspective to your thoughts....sheesh"

if youll read my post i said something vey valid.

A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want.

B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex.

If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans????? "

that makes me think....

If we're keeping unnatural things out, we better kick out all those planet pushing, bullet catching, laser eyed, tall building leaping freaks too.

While we're talking pure nature, we should also forget those pesky cars, buildings, computers and stuff. Go back to being hunter-gatherers. That'll keep the greens happy too. It's win-win.

Good lord, I give up...they just don't get it!

Spectrum says:

"if youll read my post i said something vey valid. A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want. B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex. If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans????? "

If the comic were about fish and sea slugs then it would be ok. Black people are a miority but we're not "unnatural". The problem is that you're not looking at what Mr. U is saying and addressng his points.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"If we're keeping unnatural things out, we better kick out all those planet pushing, bullet catching, laser eyed, tall building leaping freaks too."

But are the authors who write that trying to pass off people pushing planets and catching bullets, etc as normal?

This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them.

I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural.

No we get it we just choose not to accept that individuals think a persons love for someone is UN natural thats all

Buckshot says:

"Spectrum says:

"if youll read my post i said something vey valid. A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want. B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex. If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans????? "

If the comic were about fish and sea slugs then it would be ok. Black people are a miority but we're not "unnatural". The problem is that you're not looking at what Mr. U is saying and addressng his points.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"If we're keeping unnatural things out, we better kick out all those planet pushing, bullet catching, laser eyed, tall building leaping freaks too."

But are the authors who write that trying to pass off people pushing planets and catching bullets, etc as normal?"

No no no i addressed his points i just chose not to accept them

Buckshot says:

"Spectrum says:

"if youll read my post i said something vey valid. A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want. B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex. If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans????? "

If the comic were about fish and sea slugs then it would be ok. Black people are a miority but we're not "unnatural". The problem is that you're not looking at what Mr. U is saying and addressng his points.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"If we're keeping unnatural things out, we better kick out all those planet pushing, bullet catching, laser eyed, tall building leaping freaks too."

But are the authors who write that trying to pass off people pushing planets and catching bullets, etc as normal?"

THANKFULLY.....at least someone understands,....

Darkchild says:

"No we get it we just choose not to accept that individuals think a persons love for someone is UN natural thats all"

That's not what he said. He said that homosexuality is biologically unnatural for humans. You haven't been able to counter that so you're attacking something else.

Spectrum says:

"I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Disprove it then.

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"THANKFULLY.....at least someone understands,...."

I like a good debate but they're not giving you one.
Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:02:14

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Buckshot says:

"Spectrum says:

"if youll read my post i said something vey valid. A: in nature several different ssea slugs have both male and female genitallia and so have sex with how ever hey want. B: Several different Fish have the ability to change sex. If a black man writes a comic about a black super hero, should that be not allowed because Black people are in a minority to white americans????? "

If the comic were about fish and sea slugs then it would be ok. Black people are a miority but we're not "unnatural". The problem is that you're not looking at what Mr. U is saying and addressng his points.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"If we're keeping unnatural things out, we better kick out all those planet pushing, bullet catching, laser eyed, tall building leaping freaks too."

But are the authors who write that trying to pass off people pushing planets and catching bullets, etc as normal?"

THANKFULLY.....at least someone understands,...."

ok fine i will begin to be ...reasonable.

Alright. Rather than take it out entirly Mr. U (i typoe U because i hate typing out your name) what would you like to happen.

Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them.I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that's silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE

unless you(the writer) has an agenda....case closed!

Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:09:41

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them. I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE unless you(the write) has an agenda....case closed! "

no i would have to disagree. It would give a totally different spin on how you would be treated by poeple and thngs like that. No i dont agree with you on that.

Post Deleted.

Mr. U-you have your beliefs on the matter and so do i. I will agree your last post did make more sense than the rest of them But i do not think writers put it in comics to be political correct or what not, they choose to have them in it.

And everyone else DROP IT. I am being the bigger person as much as it pains me i am stopping my rants

I'll drop it after this Sir Gorgon. I was at work and missed most this though would like to through my little bit in here.

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them. I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that's silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE unless you(the writer) has an agenda....case closed!
Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:09:41"

Why does Superman need to be seen with Lois Lane? Why does the Flash need a family? Why do they need to date at all? Simple. The show of relationships with characters is part of making them more human to their audience of giving them a background, of giving them life. In this respect I believe that no type of relationship that exists within the human realm show be censored from comics or any other form of media. Placing a gay couple in a comic isn't making a statement any more than placing a straight one or interracical one. It exists in reality so why not comics?

As for the 'unnatural' statements all I have to say is when you have sex, a bit presumptuous I know, do you always use a condom? Is there birth control involved at all? Or are you constantly trying to have babies? If it's the former rather than the latter I end my case. If not, say hello to the kiddies for me.

Flying Fox says:

"I'll drop it after this Sir Gorgon. I was at work and missed most this though would like to through my little bit in here.Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them. I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that's silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE unless you(the writer) has an agenda....case closed!
Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:09:41"

Why does Superman need to be seen with Lois Lane? Why does the Flash need a family? Why do they need to date at all? Simple. The show of relationships with characters is part of making them more human to their audience of giving them a background, of giving them life. In this respect I believe that no type of relationship that exists within the human realm show be censored from comics or any other form of media. Placing a gay couple in a comic isn't making a statement any more than placing a straight one or interracical one. It exists in reality so why not comics?

As for the 'unnatural' statements all I have to say is when you have sex, a bit presumptuous I know, do you always use a condom? Is there birth control involved at all? Or are you constantly trying to have babies? If it's the former rather than the latter I end my case. If not, say hello to the kiddies for me."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey, like they say, "Not That There's anything wrong with that"

Sir Gorgon says:

"Flying Fox says:

"I'll drop it after this Sir Gorgon. I was at work and missed most this though would like to through my little bit in here.Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them. I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that's silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE unless you(the writer) has an agenda....case closed!
Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:09:41"

Why does Superman need to be seen with Lois Lane? Why does the Flash need a family? Why do they need to date at all? Simple. The show of relationships with characters is part of making them more human to their audience of giving them a background, of giving them life. In this respect I believe that no type of relationship that exists within the human realm show be censored from comics or any other form of media. Placing a gay couple in a comic isn't making a statement any more than placing a straight one or interracical one. It exists in reality so why not comics?

As for the 'unnatural' statements all I have to say is when you have sex, a bit presumptuous I know, do you always use a condom? Is there birth control involved at all? Or are you constantly trying to have babies? If it's the former rather than the latter I end my case. If not, say hello to the kiddies for me."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

Well, without intending to sound condescending, or pedantic, the overall premise of your post is correct. The idea that love and romance is somehow integrated into a comic book to develop, and substantiate, the emotional interaction between the lives of human beings, is correct.

You are either intentionally ignoring the ESSENTIAL details that are inherent in making such a vague statement, OR you just don't understand. You are writing about the NORMS of 90% of our lives, things that we grow up with, learn, envelope as a fabrique of our existance on this planet, and therefore, EXPECT to see, and associate with, because...well, its the biological, mathematical NORM of our species. Homosexual relations is an AB-norm (regardless of you personally liking that thought) of human society. Although I don't consider myself old (even if I may be in this forum) even 15 years back, homosexual society was far less obtrusive.

I do understand that it is far more integrated into this generation than ever before, but that's fact helps my overall point really, why? how does it serve a comic book story? Why should I be pleased about being presented with the 'gay' sexual orientation of superheroes in a comic i'm reading? and reading for my entertainment?...WHY? Maybe it is indeed an agenda driven, OR even personal (writer) opinion, but without doubt, a political statement. Why do we then not see the DEVOUT Christian beliefs' of Capt America??? don't you think he'd have them? I do...where is the comic portraying such? and MANY other things I could think of but are too laborious to write.

This is NOT material I personally believe should be presented in comic books, its MY opinion, it has ZERO to do with HATE for homosexuals, its simply a WIDELY held opinion by the majority in this nation(trust me) if you don't already know that yourself. However, as an attorney myself, although this is not my field of litigation, I think I could argue my case to victory in a court of law.

Oh, and one more point, the condom analogy...not good. Using a condom is a CHOICE, regardless of using one or not, who cares...the ACT is natural, and bilogically designed. It matters not what each individuals opinion of the use of a condom is, and or the non use of them. What is of paramount importance, is the fact that the boy banging girl is 100% INTENDED to happen, regardless of the ACTUAL reproduction taking place. The ACT of intercourse between boy and girl in EXPECTED BY NATURE, the result can be prevented by simply pulling out your johnson, you don't NEED a contraceptive tool to do so. I hope you're understanding my position? its not about being 'anti-gay', or 'your position is racist" its about forcing me to read about a sub-culture (that's what it is) something I have little interest in, and no personal integration with (save for a friend of my wife, and some the people I work with) in my life? Why must I read homosexual romance? what place has that in comics? SUPERHERO comics that is? WHY?

Your position on this subject is not only incorrect in proportion to the majority, but, ignorant of many facts that mathematically have no bearing on mans life here. Not everything that is 'unnatural' or in the 'minority' are bad things, many can be delights. However, on this subject, it is an undisputable FACT that homosexuality is unnatural, and a sub-culture, aspect of human life. It needs NOT be presented to the masses on a grand stage, why? why not simply target your...well, TARGET audience? why would you want ME to see it? or any other people? ESPECIALLY in a SUPERhero comic? WHY? is that not truly making a statement of some kind?

THAT...is what I don't like, and one more time...IMO, it is ENTIRELY agenda driven.

"The difference between genius, and insanity, is only truly measured by success"

Post Edited:2007-08-27 22:36:44
Post Edited:2007-08-27 22:40:07

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Sir Gorgon says:

"Flying Fox says:

"I'll drop it after this Sir Gorgon. I was at work and missed most this though would like to through my little bit in here.Mr. Ubiquitous says:

"Spectrum says:

"This is what i gathered from his posts. That gay popele shouldn be allowed in comics as it forces that stlye of living onto poeple who read them. I disagree with what he said about it being unnatural."

Ah HA...see, you didn't get it...its not in the least that I don't want 'gay' people in comics, that's silly. My point was why do I need to KNOW they're gay in comics? what purpose does that serve to the overall content?...answer? NONE unless you(the writer) has an agenda....case closed!
Post Edited:2007-08-27 13:09:41"

Why does Superman need to be seen with Lois Lane? Why does the Flash need a family? Why do they need to date at all? Simple. The show of relationships with characters is part of making them more human to their audience of giving them a background, of giving them life. In this respect I believe that no type of relationship that exists within the human realm show be censored from comics or any other form of media. Placing a gay couple in a comic isn't making a statement any more than placing a straight one or interracical one. It exists in reality so why not comics?

As for the 'unnatural' statements all I have to say is when you have sex, a bit presumptuous I know, do you always use a condom? Is there birth control involved at all? Or are you constantly trying to have babies? If it's the former rather than the latter I end my case. If not, say hello to the kiddies for me."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

Well, without intending to sound condescending, or pedantic, the overall premise of your post is correct. The idea that love and romance is somehow integrated into a comic book to develop, and substantiate, the emotional interaction between the lives of human beings, is correct.

You are either intentionally ignoring the ESSENTIAL details that are inherent in making such a vague statement, OR you just don't understand. You are writing about the NORMS of 90% of our lives, things that we grow up with, learn, envelope as a fabrique of our existance on this planet, and therefore, EXPECT to see, and associate with, because...well, its the biological, mathematical NORM of our species. Homosexual relations is an AB-norm (regardless of you personally liking that thought) of human society. Although I don't consider myself old (even if I may be in this forum) even 15 years back, homosexual society was far less obtrusive.

I do understand that it is far more integrated into this generation than ever before, but that's fact helps my overall point really, why? how does it serve a comic book story? Why should I be pleased about being presented with the 'gay' sexual orientation of superheroes in a comic i'm reading? and reading for my entertainment?...WHY? Maybe it is indeed an agenda driven, OR even personal (writer) opinion, but without doubt, a political statement. Why do we then not see the DEVOUT Christian beliefs' of Capt America??? don't you think he'd have them? I do...where is the comic portraying such? and MANY other things I could think of but are too laborious to write.

This is NOT material I personally believe should be presented in comic books, its MY opinion, it has ZERO to do with HATE for homosexuals, its simply a WIDELY held opinion by the majority in this nation(trust me) if you don't already know that yourself. However, as an attorney myself, although this is not my field of litigation, I think I could argue my case to victory in a court of law.

Oh, and one more point, the condom analogy...not good. Using a condom is a CHOICE, regardless of using one or not, who cares...the ACT is natural, and bilogically designed. It matters not what each individuals opinion of the use of a condom is, and or the non use of them. What is of paramount importance, is the fact that the boy banging girl is 100% INTENDED to happen, regardless of the ACTUAL reproduction taking place. The ACT of intercourse between boy and girl in EXPECTED BY NATURE, the result can be prevented by simply pulling out your johnson, you don't NEED a contraceptive tool to do so. I hope you're understanding my position? its not about being 'anti-gay', or 'your position is racist" its about forcing me to read about a sub-culture (that's what it is) something I have little interest in, and no personal integration with (save for a friend of my wife, and some the people I work with) in my life? Why must I read homosexual romance? what place has that in comics? SUPERHERO comics that is? WHY?

Your position on this subject is not only incorrect in proportion to the majority, but, ignorant of many facts that mathematically have no bearing on mans life here. Not everything that is 'unnatural' or in the 'minority' are bad things, many can be delights. However, on this subject, it is an undisputable FACT that homosexuality is unnatural, and a sub-culture, aspect of human life. It needs NOT be presented to the masses on a grand stage, why? why not simply target your...well, TARGET audience? why would you want ME to see it? or any other people? ESPECIALLY in a SUPERhero comic? WHY? is that not truly making a statement of some kind?

THAT...is what I don't like, and one more time...IMO, it is ENTIRELY agenda driven.

"The difference between genius, and insanity, is only truly measured by success"

Post Edited:2007-08-27 22:36:44
Post Edited:2007-08-27 22:40:07"

hmmm well dammit i thought we were done with this U man

oh and U i think her comment on the condom was used to show choice like everyone has a choice on what sexual orientation. but thats what i got. but oh well your point was made to me 10 hours ago so i am done. i know your not a bigot and i like that i understand its what you believe in so . To each their own right. lets end it here

I just get riled up when people imply that whatever I do with my mate is unnatural or immoral in any way, shape, or form. The condom thing was actually more about his point of it being a matter of reproduction. Okay I swear I'm done. Continuing on topic, if no one, sans the obvious, minds... I almost forgot...

Karolina Dean
Post Edited:2007-08-28 00:06:27

I forgot the shiny girl's powers...pardon my ignorance.....and I didn't really understan exactly what they say on her page. What can she do?

As I tend to suck at such explainations I think wiki does a fine job of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karolina_Dean#Powers_and_abilities

Basically she uses a solar based energy to generate beams(to shoot/fight with), force fields, ect and she can fly.

Coooooool.

Super.

Well I didn't exactly expect that kind of response to my post..... i just wanted a list of choices like we do on telepathy, attractive female etc.....lol. I thought that the 21st Century was over the kind of 'keep them in the closet' mentality but everyone has there own opinion....

Very adult material in message reader discretion advised

Mr. Ubiquitous says:

[stuff deleted]

This is NOT material I personally believe should be presented in comic books, its MY >opinion, it has ZERO to do with HATE for homosexuals, its simply a WIDELY held opinion >by the majority in this nation(trust me) if you don't already know that yourself. >However, as an attorney myself, although this is not my field of litigation, I think I >could argue my case to victory in a court of law.

I'm not sure what kind of case would be presented, but the 1st Amendment would be used. It covers things that are extremely unpopular. If you think homosexuality is unpopular, look at groups like the Klu Klux Klan or NAMBLA (which is homosexual also, but most gays distance themselves from it).

Or if you want a real comic book example, go check out "Here Come the Lovejoys" by Eros Comix. (I work at a major university and was the comic book cataloger for a while - I would never purchase or recommend this for anyone). If you're legal age, and meet all other legal requirements, at the Eros website it is available. Like many of Eros' comics, it is a pornie comic, but this one has adult incest (read the second sentence of the description of the collected graphic novel : "The family that..." if you don't believe me). This comic makes it clear what is going on inside. When I cataloged the book, I noticed that the girl was in high school. It didn't say anywhere, but I'm assuming she was an 18 year old senior.

How "unpopular" and "unaccepted" would you think this comic would be? Yet there it is available on the web and possibly on those "adult shelves" at comic book stores. Adult incest is legal, at least in fiction and comic books. I think It's one of those outer limit legal things that I guess people have a right to read about, but not to actually do (I don't know what the laws are on it, but I'm assuming its illegal to actually do). It was "popular" enough to get a trade paperback printing. I don't want to meet anyone who made or bought the comic, but I suppose its their right to make/read it.

BTW, it was completely straight (not gay) sex, so according to the "homosexuality in comics will lead to animal sex, etc." camp of people, straight relationships should be banned or not published too, for I have a specific example of what straight relationships could lead to. (It's that old slippery slope fallacy).

Anyways, its not up to the "moral majority" to decide what can or can not be published (But things can be for adults only - adults are assumed to have the capacity to decide for themselves) It may be a fad, but more publishers are having gay relationships. I don't have any figures of any kind, but I'm guessing it is selling comics, so at least with comic book readers its more accepted and possibly desired.

You always have the right to not buy the comic and tell the publisher you don't want that kind of thing in your comics or get the publisher to put some warning (like those letters you see at the beginning of shows - V for violence, etc.) about that sort of thing on comic covers in specific regards to children and those people who don't want that in their comic.

What an interesting thread.

Homosexuality is indeed prevalent in nature. To say it's a crime against nature is false, and usually said by people with an agenda. For a full list of animals who exhibit homosexual behavior, you may look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_practicing_homosexual_behavior

This list displays one major fact of life: This is not a learned behavior, it's genetic. Homosexuals are born the way they are. That is not to say that this is always the case, as some people are liberal and enjoy trying new things, but this is the case for the majority of homosexuals. As much as you may believe that it isn't, homosexuality is not unnatural. If your argument is that there is no purpose for it, there is also no purpose for the male nipple. Should all men cut them off?

The arguments that were presented in this thread are the same arguments that Nazis said about Jews, what slave owners said about blacks and (surprise, surprise!) what humans say about mutants!. (It's a shame that some of us don't see their underlying message.) To say that gays should not be depicted in any form of entertainment is homophobic, regardless if you preface it with a statement of intent.

To say that the majority of people don't want gays in entertainment is also a fallacy. Look at the box office statistics for Brokeback Mountain, the number one movie during a Christmas holiday season. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokeback_mountain

I'm not upset at anyone for being uninformed, but don't try to push your beliefs on others. Express your opinion, but don't try to make it appear as fact when it is very much not.

Now in regard to comics in particular, comic books have been a set of ideals for people who are outcasts. The "geek" reads comics. The "nerd" reads comics. The outcast reads comics as a form of fantasy, a way to make our day just that much bearable by escaping into a good story. Comics have been elevating their social commentary in the past few decades. Speedy, Green Arrow's original sidekick, took heroin and overcame it. Mutants are ostracized for being born different. Watchmen deals with the seemingly unavoidable demise of the planet through the Cold War. Maus addressed the Nazi regime against people of the Jewish faith. And comics now have gay characters, showing that we are diverse. There are plenty of gay people, as well as Jews, blacks, and even former junkies, that read comics and appreciate the depictions. Comics originally didn't even have black people portrayed. That changed. They didn't have females in strong roles. That changed. They never had gay characters. That changed.

And that's a good thing.

Oh, and how can we forget Karma on that list?!

Post Edited:2007-08-28 12:51:55

Agent Paradox 9 says:

"What an interesting thread.Homosexuality is indeed prevalent in nature. To say it's a crime against nature is false, and usually said by people with an agenda. For a full list of animals who exhibit homosexual behavior, you may look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_practicing_homosexual_behaviorThis list displays one major fact of life: This is not a learned behavior, it's genetic. Homosexuals are born the way they are. That is not to say that this is always the case, as some people are liberal and enjoy trying new things, but this is the case for the majority of homosexuals. As much as you may believe that it isn't, homosexuality is not unnatural. If your argument is that there is no purpose for it, there is also no purpose for the male nipple. Should all men cut them off?The arguments that were presented in this thread are the same arguments that Nazis said about Jews, what slave owners said about blacks and (surprise, surprise!) what humans say about mutants!. (It's a shame that some of us don't see their underlying message.) To say that gays should not be depicted in any form of entertainment is homophobic, regardless if you preface it with a statement of intent.To say that the majority of people don't want gays in entertainment is also a fallacy. Look at the box office statistics for Brokeback Mountain, the number one movie during a Christmas holiday season. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokeback_mountainI'm not upset at anyone for being uninformed, but don't try to push your beliefs on others. Express your opinion, but don't try to make it appear as fact when it is very much not.Now in regard to comics in particular, comic books have been a set of ideals for people who are outcasts. The "geek" reads comics. The "nerd" reads comics. The outcast reads comics as a form of fantasy, a way to make our day just that much bearable by escaping into a good story. Comics have been elevating their social commentary in the past few decades. Speedy, Green Arrow's original sidekick, took heroin and overcame it. Mutants are ostracized for being born different. Watchmen deals with the seemingly unavoidable demise of the planet through the Cold War. Maus addressed the Nazi regime against people of the Jewish faith. And comics now have gay characters, showing that we are diverse. There are plenty of gay people, as well as Jews, blacks, and even former junkies, that read comics and appreciate the depictions. Comics originally didn't even have black people portrayed. That changed. They didn't have females in strong roles. That changed. They never had gay characters. That changed.And that's a good thing.Oh, and how can we forget Karma on that list?!
Post Edited:2007-08-28 12:51:55"

I'll tear this post apart later on when I have more time...

Agent Paradox 9 says:

"What an interesting thread.Homosexuality is indeed prevalent in nature. To say it's a crime against nature is false, and usually said by people with an agenda. For a full list of animals who exhibit homosexual behavior, you may look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_practicing_homosexual_behavior[stuff deleted]Or if you don't trust Wikipedia, go to a decent library (Not the local Podunkia library or Billy Graham U. library ) and look under the Library of Congress subject heading "Homosexuality in Animals"