So the definition of Mary Sue = Whatever I want it to be. Right?

Like I can’t stress this enough, there’s no definition, I’ve literally seen the term be used in so many different ways that someone like Saitama or Guts could be considered a Mary Sue. Don’t say they can’t be because whatever definition you have can be countered by a different definition. The problem here is that neither of you are wrong technically.

So what I’ve learned from my experiences are:

1.Anyone’s a Mary Sue if you try hard enough

2.Everyone isn’t a Mary Sue if you try hard enough

3.This term is used to try and ruin a reputation of a character in the eyes of viewers

4.This term is used by people who don’t really think about it and wants a catch all term

5.The term is used by lazy people

I believe most people are 4.

Mary Sue means a character who is perfect at everything , is unanimously loved by everyone , and faces no struggles .

This term does not apply well to most characters like , for eg , Rey .

But , Captain Marvel is definitely the epitome of Mary Suey .

A Mary Sue is a character who lacks flaws. This can appear in a variety of ways, such as the character being good at everything, being loved by everyone, and the plot bending to the character's benefit. Rey is a good example. Saitama is not.

Mary Sues are typically poorly-written characters because they don't struggle during the story and are difficult to relate to because they are perfect.

Your right...There is no clear idea of what a Mary Sue is.

No theres’s a pretty clear idea, typically they’re a self-insert with no character flaws.

Nah, Soca is right... It's not that hard to understand either unless you have below average intelligence, probably.

I’ve literally seen the term be used in so many different ways that someone like Saitama or Guts could be considered a Mary Sue

Well, I don't condone listening to these stupid people. Especially Guts? What the hell is that person smoking? The one that said Saitama most likely hasn't watched nor read OPM at all, so whatever.

>Mary Sue
> Guts

Pick one, and stop smoking melting rubber.

You can identify Mary Sues and Gary Stus from their ability to accomplish things on a mere whim despite the story showing beforehand that they shouldn't be able to do that. If they repeatedly do this time after time then they are probably a Mary Sue.

Wouldn't that make God a Mary Sue by that standard?

Batman is sometimes a shockingly accurate example, but just in the very bad written stories.

If u are able to pull abilities out of ur ass while others have to train to gain them u're Mary sue.

U're an even worse mary sue if u are no 1 at everything with minimal to no training.

OP seems salty.

A MAry sue is a poorly written character for whom the plot bends backward, has no flaws, loved by everyone no matter what, treated as the second coming of Jesus, inexplicably strong just because... MCU Captain Marvel is trash and a Mary Sue for example along with Rey.

People thinking Rey is a Mary Sue in 2020.

I love it

@devoidruby: Because she is.

-She is loved by every character. An example is this: after barely even knowing her, Leia walks right past Chewie and hugs Rey after Han's death and then proceeds to let her be the one to search for Luke when she LITERALLY just joined the Resistance.

-She has access to abilities that she never could have learned beforehand, such as flying the Falcon better than Han Solo (she's now the best pilot in the Resistance as of TROS, nullifying the purpose of Poe as a character) and can use watercraft better than the people who use it daily despite never experiencing a large body of water before. These are examples of the plot bending to get her where she needs to go without struggle

-She knows how to use Jedi mindtricks and other abilities and can do it borderline effortlessly when just prior, she thought the Jedi were a myth.

-By swinging a lightsaber at a rock, she is now an equal to Kylo Ren in dueling (who has been trained by both Luke and Snoke) as seen by her duels with him and her fight against the Praetorian Guards. She also bested Luke Skywalker in combat. Do not attempt to bring up the fact that she used a staff beforehand because staff-combat and sword-combat are astronomically different, as confirmed by Medieval experts with both weapons.

-She can lift countless large boulders with virtually no strain at all, after receiving barely any training at all. This "training" equates to Luke giving her two verbal lessons and she is already using force feats that surpass Luke and Yoda, such as the boulders and holding large spacecraft in place while it is accelerating AND Kylo Ren is pulling against her.

-Her character lacks flaws in a personality sense. She is not mean, arrogant, self-righteous, greedy, lustful, lazy, malignant, overly-ambitious, exceedingly vengeful, etc. She only wants to do the right thing and help others. She is perfect.

-When she "fails" or messes up, the plot bends to give her the upperhand in the situation. A primary example is when she was captured in TFA, her capture ultimately led to the destruction of Starkiller base. Or when she was about to get stabbed by Kylo Ren, Leia essentially commits suicide so she can stab Ren.

-She can instantly learn one of the most difficult abilities in Star Wars canon, force lightning, simply because she is angry, when this never happened for Darth Maul or Anakin Skywalker. Her lightning also is now able to destroy an entire ship.

Do I need to continue here or

I'm more than happy to list numerous characters who are not Mary Sues if need be

@necromancer76: I can taste dat salt.

OT: The term mary sue is thrown around way to much these days, mainly at characters people dont like.

@incursion2: Call it salt if you'd like, I just prefer well-written characters over poorly written-characters.

Technically, a male Mary Sue is a Gary Sue.

Basically any character who hate most is a Mary Sue to you

For me Circe from DC is a Mary Sue

Any character can be one with enough debate tbh. The term should be thrown out

Rey is still a Mary Sue to a degree even after Rise of Skywalker. Simply being Palpatine's granddaughter didn't give enough justification for her being to accomplish things on a mere whim half the time.

In Disney canon, training doesn't matter much. Just look at baby yoda...

@smoke-w: Baby Yoda's a bit of a mess in terms of the background they gave him, but yeah that's true.

I really like how poster boy of Mary Sues who has destroyed an entire cinematic universe by beating the entire team and fingerflicking the villain and has multiple big flops is not even in the conversion. Like the sub has zero self awareness

This thread just kinda proves that I’m right.

What I’ve gathered from this thread is that some people still kinda disagree what it means and they still like to give their own arbitrary definition. Thanks for the definition guys but I think it seems so arbitrary.

What a Mary Sue actually is, seems to be a combination of a bunch of arbitrary traits that can easily be subverted by a bunch of different traits.

Honestly the term only seems to be used for its connotational meaning.