So MCU Caps helicopter feat...

tony pretty much did most of the work , remember MCU nerfed Thor to the point the that TONY STARK can stalemate him

how am I hater ? MCU completely nerfed Thor to the point that Iron Man and Hulk can beat , in all reality , Tony arc did the work

Dude, it was explicitly stated that Thor could bust the city in his own.

Iron Man was getting beaten handily and his suit was more powerful than it has ever been, and Hulk didn´t beat Thor, it was pretty even with Hulk having an edge on sheer strength and Thor faster and more skilled.

@thor_parker82: wasn't Tony's suit being amped like... 400% lol

Tony stated Thor can easily destroy the LANDMASS he had , not the whole city itself , and no matter what a mad made power suit should not be able to survive fighting the God of Thunder , especially one who didn't care if he killed tony or not

so....much.....nerd

Street level heroes remember?

Nope, he stated Thor was capable of destroying Sokovia, but the remains would have still been devastating.......I do agree that Thor should have done much better against Iron Man, but Stark is the face of the MCU and their most popular character, and Thor was still clearly the more powerful in their battle, so that´s kind of a win for me.

Yep, and even then Thor was clearly more powerful.

Soon turns out it was just adrenaline...

Not really suprised

What the hell are you even talking about?

@r2datu: the Russos stayed that the helicopter feat is an outlier due to adrenaline...

Not sure why he'd be in a fight without adrenaline ...

Agreed

It was never stated in the movie it was out of his normal capabilities. I predict that the Russo's and Marvel will have Cap perform other feats on that level or maybe even slightly higher in the future movies.

He means the Russo's said that Cap was having a 'mother lifts car off children' moment, not something he can enter at will. The human body is only supposed to remove it's limiters once or twice a lifetime, if what I've heard about such a state is true.

“He’s hanging onto that helicopter for an extremely passionate reason,” says Joe Russo. “In stories you’ll read where a mother will lift a car off a child. There’s something very important happening in that scene and for us it really represented his struggle as a character, one man pitted against a helicopter that’s trying to take off. Can he stop it? And what are the limits of his strength? For us, it’s one of the most powerful shots in the movie and it’s Chris Evans, who works very hard to physically exemplify this character. On set, we had him straining against a crane holding this helicopter, and you have this fantastic shot of his muscles bulging and you can feel the pain and the energy and the determination as he tries to stop this thing.”

- Source

Apparently he weighs 800 lbs

@alphaq: thanks for helping me clarify that... I should have said it a lot better than I did

@agencyagent34: No problem.

The feat isn't an outlier anyway

This feat isn't an outlier. He has multiple more feats to support this

But doesn't Steve and Bucky have the same strength and feats? Why does Bucky seems so strong on Winter Soldier yet so weak on Civil War..

The helicopter in question is believed to be an Airbus AS350 according the science team over at Nerdist, with 3,000 pounds of lifting capacity.

He's not quite lifting the helicopter, most of the heavy lifting is going on with the rotors. He's just preventing it from moving laterally, which is still impressive. If Bucky were to cut the lift, it might have been a different story. It's mostly about limb strength here.

If the helicopter is lifting(vertically) then it's running at or near max power meaning the helicopter is taking Cap with it, unless his super-strength extends to the amount of friction between the tips of his shoes and the ground. However it's going mostly horizontally(between 90-180 degree angle) meaning it isn't applying the full force of 3000Ibs but less. So this is no higher than a 1.5 ton feat but lower.

He was still on the same level as Civil War. I mean, he absolutely overwhelmed Cap during their fight in the UN building.

Not sure where you got your information from, but a H125 (formerly known as an AS350) has a maximum takeoff weight (with external load) of 6,172 lbs. Which means it's maximum lift is 6,172 lbs ++ as they are rated well below the total lift they can achieve.

Where did you get the lifting take off from? Your point doesn't refuted my point since even if it's 6,172 or 3,000 Ibs it's still not going at max lift. Most of the heavy lifting is going on with the rotors. It's going mostly horizontally(between 90-180 degree angle) meaning it isn't applying the full force. He's just preventing it from moving laterally, which is still impressive. If Bucky were to cut the lift, it might have been a different story

@dottiestmoon:

Ok lets be fair though. That is a much smaller lighter, and less powerful helicopter then the one MCU cap reeled in.

Found basically the exact helicopter used in the scan and reworked the numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_47

A 2 person light utility aircraft. Ill use this one as an example to compare the two feats. I will also be using max take of weights as examples of how much weight the helicopter can lift and fly with. Both of theses aircraft produce more lift then there max safe take off weights that FAA gives them, but i don't know the equation well enough to calculate it and TBH it would only benefit the larger air craft (MCU Cap) more. It was structurally designed to lift heavy external loads.

Empty weight for the Bell 47G-3B ( the most powerful version) is 1,893lbs . For comparison sake lets say it had a half tank of gas and 2 men in the cockpit like shown in the scan.

Aviation fuel weighs 6lbs per gallon and the Bell 47 had a gas tank that was 43 gallons. so 21.5 gallons * 6lbs = 129lbs of weight. Add in 2 average male's (190lb each) and you get a grand total of 2,402lbs. Max take off weight for that helicopter is 2,950lbs. Its only capable of taking off with another 600lbs of resistance before it reaches its max safe take off limit. Its not able to create enough lift to safely move more weight.

Like i i said we are using the most powerful version of this aircraft. Older, less powerful versions would have lower max take off weights.

Compare that to MCU Caps feat.

http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/products/H125-specifications.asp

The helicopter MCU Cap pulled in was a AS350 which is also known as an Air Bus H125

Empty weight for this helicopter is 2,816lbs. Lets add a half tank of gas to that (71.5 gallons) and Bucky's approximate weight.

So 2,816lbs + 429lbs + 225lbs = 3,470lbs

Max take off weight with an external load is 6,172lbs

So the H125 helicopter that MCU Cap reeled in was still able to safely move a resistance of 2,702lbs or almost 1.5 tons of weight before it reached its max take of weight with an external load.

Going by the FAA limitations on both aircraft and the loads used, MCU Cap reeled in a helicopter that was producing around 5x the amount of resistance then the one 616 Cap did.

Not to mention 616 Cap is using a twisting motion to pull the helicopter down. Using a twisting motion like that uses almost all of your upper body and core muscles while MCU Cap pulled in a much larger helicopter creating substantially more lift by basically contracting only his bicep to curl it in. The MCU Cap feat is pretty insane. It should be an easy multi ton strength feat to not only stop the helicopter but be able to pull the helicopter in, and that was pretty much all bicep strength.

I will say it looks like 616 Cap pulled his helicopter down hard and faster, but it was also much less resistance while using more muscle groups.

Personally, i see MCU Cap's helicopter feat > 616 Caps.

He's as strong as the situation calls for.

@tayssti: Murk em.

@tayssti: Excellent post mate.

what he said

@tayssti: This too much too reply on. How could you analyze it properly if the film is not out on DVD?

@dottiestmoon:

I have a copy on my computer that is fairly good quality. Not to mention the whole scene is on Youtube to analyze.

@ldm: @doofasa: @nickzambuto:

@tayssti: It's more of a limb strength feat though compared to using muscles. Human limbs can handle more than they can lift or press.

Can you calculate cap's running speed in the car cash scene? It looks above 30mph to me due to them running faster than cars which are on highway speed which I think is around 30mph in Africa.

@dottiestmoon:

It's more of a limb strength feat though compared to using muscles.

How so?

I will agree that it shows that his bones, ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc have superhuman durability to not be ripped to shreds by the forces pulling on them but that doesn't take away the fact that Cap held on, over came, and pulled a helicopter back with his bicep muscle strength.

Human limbs can handle more than they can lift or press.

i agree but not sure what your point is. This feat was not any more of a limb durability feat then it was a muscle strength feat. Both were involved, but the action of being able to hold on to the helicopter with his immense grip strength and pull it back in with his bicep strength is more of a strength feat then a durability feat.

Edit: adding in more information.

Can you calculate cap's running speed in the car cash scene? It looks above 30mph to me due to them running faster than cars which are on highway speed which I think is around 30mph in Africa.

I was going to sit down and see if i could actually. Until i do i think this is a pretty good approximation that i made in another post.

[For the motorcycle sequence], you gotta credit the second AD, which is Spiro, this phenomenal director who kind of goes uncredited for a lot of the sequences you see in Fast and Furious and whatnot. He has this trick he came up with… It’s a magic carpet, he calls it. There’s a car dragging this sheet, sort of like an escalator. So you’re running on that and it looks like you’re running three times as fast.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/9450234/100m-final-how-fast-could-you-run-it.html

An athletic male averages a top speed of around 16mph and a 100m dash in 13-14 seconds. Multiple that by 3.

So i think its safe to assume that they are trying to portray Bucky, Cap, and Panther all running around the 45mph area.

@tayssti: Unfortunately, this I have to stop you on. You're taking Stan's offhand, casual, "like 3 times faster" remark completely literally and I don't think that's any way to prove anything. Not to mention, you aren't multiplying the average speed of a man, you're multiplying what the article states as "the fastest among us." Stan did not state "we run exactly three times faster than the fastest humans." I just think you're giving Cap way too much benefit of the doubt on this one.

But I'm still right there with you on everything related to the helicopter.

Ok lets dive into it.

1. I stated that i think its a good "approximation". I never stated that this was concrete, although i will say im pretty good at this type of stuff so i think my approximation is very close.

2. Stan mentions the AD, Spiro, came up with this way to make them faster. I dont think that Stan just made the remark "3 times faster" on his own. He clearly was working Spiro, the guy who came up with the contraption and knows what its capable of. They probably discussed how much faster it would make him, cap and BP.

Not to mention, you aren't multiplying the average speed of a man, you're multiplying what the article states as "the fastest among us."

3. When it says "fastest among us" in that link, they are implying average people by "us". They just worded is strangely. lol 16mph is not the fastest among the fastest humans.

Stan did not state "we run exactly three times faster than the fastest humans."

Again 16mph is not even close to the fastest among the fastest humans, its very average. 14-16mph is only an average speed of about 6.5-7 m/s. That is very slow compared to even high school runners. High school level track athletes (14-18 year olds) finish the 100m in around 11-11.5 seconds. That's an average speed of around 19-22mph or 8.5-9m/s. Adult track sprinters easily reach average speeds of 20mph+ and top speeds of 25mph+ (Usain bolt ran a top speed of 28mph, and there are plenty of guys that arent far off)

These were boys 15 years old and under, fastest time was 11.6 100m. He had an average speed of 19mph, top speed of probably some where around 21-22mph.

Your average guy is very capable of hitting around 14-16mph.

Alright now lets actually analyze the feat. I will say that it wasn't easy finding a usable shot to to get an accurate approximation but i believe i have.

Here is a behind the scene look at BP using the "magic carpet" device they came up with to make them run faster. This gif is at normal speed and filmed at 24 fps.

He is clearly slowing down at this point when compared to his full out speed when hes more crouches and arms pumping like this.

I downloaded this behind the scene clip and opened it up in Adobe After Effects. It took 11 frames for BP to run from the first pillar he emerges from to the 2nd one in my first .gif i posted.

So out of 24fps it took him 11, which means he ran that distance in about .45 seconds. Keep in mind he clearly was not running quite as hard has he could, visually its pretty clear that hes not pumping as hard as he was in other shots.

Ok, now we need to know the distance between those concrete pillars.

Here is a clip of an AUdi A7 traveling between the pillars at 30% speed.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=audi%20a7%20length

We know the Audi A7 is 196.2" long or about 16.5 ft.

I went frame by frame in After effects with this clip as well using the Audi's over all length as a good measuring stick. The distance between the pillars looks somewhere around 25-28ft. I think about 8 meters is a very accurate approximation of the distance between the pillars.

So now that we know the distance that BP traveled and the time it took him to travel that distance we can get an accurate approximation.

V = 8m/.45s = 17.7m meters per second or 40mph.

That is a very close approximation of BP's speed in that .gif above. He was however starting to slow down in the .gif. All 3 of theses guys (Cap, Bucky, and BP were shown not to be gaining or losing any ground on one another) I stand by my 45mph approximation at full out running speed for all 3 of them.

@tayssti: This all just sounds like way too many assumptions for me to take it seriously, I'm sorry. I mean you can call those boys high schoolers if you want to try and undermine them, but what's more important is that they're still athletes. They train regularly to run faster. They do not represent the average person, I've never tested myself but I'm pretty sure I can't run even close to 19 MPH, or even 16 for that matter. Those are big numbers. And Stan's comment about "three times as fast" really isn't rock solid, it's a hyperbole, that's how people talk. Obviously the exact speed that the magic carpet makes him run at would depend entirely on how fast the car dragging him is moving, there's no constant speed, "three times faster" was a generalization.

@nickzambuto:

This all just sounds like way too many assumptions for me to take it seriously, I'm sorry.

They really arent just assumptions. That's why i took the time to make some calcs. Look them over more and you will see im not over exaggerating anything. Its simple stuff. The time it took BP to run from pillar to pillar is easy to get an accurate measure of and the distance between the pillars is fairly easy to calculate as well. Just by eye you can tell that the distance between the pillars is somewhere around 25-30ft add in the Audi as a good measuring stick that makes it even easier to calculate.

mean you can call those boys high schoolers if you want to try and undermine them, but what's more important is that they're still athletes. They train regularly to run faster. They do not represent the average person

Yes they are athletes, that are 13-14 years old. Very under developed, not trying to undermine them its just fact. I didnt say they represented the average, clearly they dont since they were averaging 19 mph.

I've never tested myself but I'm pretty sure I can't run even close to 19 MPH, or even 16 for that matter. Those are big numbers.

I know for sure i can run around 16mph at a top speed sprint, and while im in shape i would consider myself very average when it comes to sprinting top speed. I'm not sure what type of shape you are in but you would have to be pretty out of shape to not be able to hit around 15mph in a sprint as a full grown man (no offense). They really are not very big numbers. An average jog is roughly 8-mph.

Stan's comment about "three times as fast" really isn't rock solid, it's a hyperbole, that's how people talk. Obviously the exact speed that the magic carpet makes him run at would depend entirely on how fast the car dragging him is moving, there's no constant speed, "three times faster" was a generalization.

I know Stans quote is not rock solid. Yes you are correct it depends on how fast the car is dragging him. Im sure they nailed in a speed for the car to travel while rehearsing that would give them a number around 3 times as fast as the average person. They need to make the continuity of the foot speed the same through out. The car they were using was for sure not traveling at random speeds.

I'm curious what speed you think they are running at?

@tayssti: Some for arguments can be arguable but the speed feats has some assumption. You're basing off the speed off chris evans by 3x right? I don't think chris is anywhere near as fast as an average adult athlete. He's has an adult bodybuilder body not an athlete sprinter's body. An average athlete actually trains he body to sprint while chris does not. I understand that rugby players are big and fast but that's because they trained to sprint intensely. I think 40mph is reasonable not 45 mph based off your work.

@tayssti: I don't disagree that they're running at around 40-50 MPH, I just think your reasoning involves a lot of assumptions, but that's a pointless argument so I'm going to drop it. Can you tell me how you slow those gifs down or which program you use to do it? That would be helpful to me.

@dottiestmoon:

You're basing off the speed off chris evans but 3x right?

No, im basing the speed off the time it took Black panther to travel the distance between the 2 pillars. Which he was in the middle of slowing down and not at a complete sprint

I don't think chris is anywhere near as fast as an average adult athlete.

You dont have to be an athlete to hit around a 15mph top speed in a sprint as an adult male. You just need to be an average guy in decent shape. Id be extremely surprised if Chris Evans couldn't hit around 15mph for a top speed.

He's has an adult bodybuilder body not an athlete sprinter's body. An average athlete actually trains he body to sprint while chris does not. I understand that rugby players are big and fast but that's because they trained to sprint intensely. I think 40mph is reasonable not 45 mph based off your work.

You dont have to have an athlete sprinter's body to hit around 15mph haha. Geez guys.

Ok look at it this way.

15mph it 6.7 m/s. lets say that you were capable of traveling at 15mph or 6.7m/s for a whole 100 meter dash. That would mean you could finish the 100 meter dash in about 15 seconds flat. Thats is pretty slow/average. Thats assuming you would have run the whole distance at a constant speed. Im not saying that's average, im saying hitting a top speed of 14-16mph then slowing down is completely doable for your average decent shape guy.

If you could hit a top speed of around 14-16mph and then slowed down progressively, your time for the 100m dash would probably be some where in the 16--17 seconds range. Thats a very average/slow time

@nickzambuto: Ok. There really is no way to know the EXACT distance between each pillar unless i had the blue prints of the underpass or i went there and measured myself, but id say im with in a foot or so. The time it took is very accurate since i went by FPS from the video. My approximation is very accurate. Like you said 40mph on the low end and 50mph on the high end is a very accurate range. Approximate 45mph is a good average.

Yeah no problem. Use this website https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator

While making the .gif you can choose more options and slow it down accordingly.

@tayssti: This speed calculation is still based off mostly assumption though.

@dottiestmoon: what are they? Let's go over them. What do you think is off?

He's Captain America, he has to be strong.

Wow. Is it really that big a stretch that Cap could reach 50mph on a sprint?

@gxrevolution: No. People are low balling him

The dude's got the power of 'MERICA by his side and also tossed a motorcycle. He can defeat God damn Superman if he wants to

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