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#1 Posted by Reignmaker (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

This came up on my newsfeed and I was curious of other opinions.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/03/publishers-get-politics-comic-book-stores/

Should creators keep politics out of it, or should everything remain game across the various comics offerings?

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#2 Posted by ArranVid (1830 posts) - - Show Bio

I think politics should be kept in them

however, I'm not too big on PC culture

e.g. when Iron Man became a woman, when Thor became a woman, when Spider-Man's identity changed...

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#3 Edited by Eto (5277 posts) - - Show Bio

No

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#4 Posted by EarthsMightiest (2765 posts) - - Show Bio

No

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#5 Edited by Gymbro (209 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing I love more than opening a comic book and seeing the cuck writer shove pro feminist propaganda down my throat

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#6 Posted by Heatblaze (10399 posts) - - Show Bio

They're allowed. I don't like it, but they can if they want to.

I usually prefer my comic books to not have any main political narrative ( analogies if done right, I'm ok with, like the X-Men)

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@gymbro said:

There's nothing I love more than opening a comic book and seeing the cuck writer shove pro feminist propaganda down my throat

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#8 Posted by Reignmaker (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm OK with it as well as a general rule. However the narrative does seem to typically lean one direction, which doesn't help.

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#9 Edited by Revive (534 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of them. Comics should be able to tackle all obstacles, just like novels and television.

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#10 Posted by Rubear (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

When you wanna make comics political you get this.

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#11 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

No

Comics are an escape/template for what it means to be better (and should primarily be for children) so they should not mix in something that divides us and drives us apart

These heroes should be for everyone

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#12 Posted by mrmonster (15098 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on what the author wants.

If the author wants his art to have a political message, he should insert one. This rule applies to all the arts, not just comics.

But if he doesn't, and instead just wants to make a fun, message free story, he should do that too.

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#13 Posted by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why not. Characters like Green Arrow, Superman, and even Deathstroke can set up some amazing political stories.

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#14 Posted by lubub55 (12894 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the comic. I don't mind it as long as it's fictional politics and isn't making comments on real life stuff.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-598aab95b6c09 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

It all depends on how it's handled. "No" is a very broad answer. Comics are a medium. There are horror comics, noir comics, sex comics, and political comics. Transmetropolitan is hailed as one of the best ever, and it's pure sociopolitical satire. So, to answer: Politics as in Marvel's recent push? Hell no. Politics as a very broad concept tackled with nuance and explored from all sides? Sure, why the hell not.

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#16 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvel4ever: You think comics should be for Children?

And I don't think anyone who is a hero should be down for the racists, the neo-nazis, and that ilk.

Anywho, I'm cool with it. This is like saying a celebrity can't get political.

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#17 Posted by IceDemonKing (9985 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the story.

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#18 Posted by Black_Arrow (10258 posts) - - Show Bio

It all depends on how it's handled. "No" is a very broad answer. Comics are a medium. There are horror comics, noir comics, sex comics, and political comics. Transmetropolitan is hailed as one of the best ever, and it's pure sociopolitical satire. So, to answer: Politics as in Marvel's recent push? Hell no. Politics as a very broad concept tackled with nuance and explored from all sides? Sure, why the hell not.

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#19 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv said:

@captainmarvel4ever: You think comics should be for Children?

And I don't think anyone who is a hero should be down for the racists, the neo-nazis, and that ilk.

Anywho, I'm cool with it. This is like saying a celebrity can't get political.

1. Superhero comics by Marvel and DC

Indie companies like Image, Vertigo, etc. should only be restricted by the capacity of their imaginations

2.

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#20 Posted by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio

Comics have always been political, many of the superheroes personified certain current events. X-men symbolized Black discrimination back in the day, Northstar coming out during the rise of gay rights movement, Captain America was used as a symbol for American soldiers and the war on the Nazi. I don't see why they question it now when comics and political have always been going hand in hand.

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#21 Posted by Dealthy_Hallows (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Transmetropolitan, Watchmen ,V for Vendetta, some Batman stories (mostly Alan Moore's)....

I like politics in comics and graphic novels, as long as the author is trying to persuade the reader.

For example: When they give a character like Rorschach a blatant hate for liberals and the wealthy, I find it to be entertaining and build depth. Because at no point does alan moore say you should have this or that political belief, it is solely the character who obtains those beliefs.

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#22 Posted by GunsNRoses23 (237 posts) - - Show Bio

Not when their forcing the writers biased bullshit down our throats 24/7.

Lookin at you Nick Spencer

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#23 Posted by JediXMan (42476 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it kind of funny that people don't believe comics should be political, but at the same time, believe that comics should be taken seriously as literature.

Literature is filled with political commentary; hell, the most hailed comic - and the one put on the pedestal of literature - is Watchmen, which is extremely political.

If you don't like it, then show it by not buying the comic book. But if you want comics to be anything but children's literature, you need to accept that they will be political.

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#24 Posted by Yassassin (7686 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, sure. They've ALWAYS have been, why change it now?

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#25 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44280 posts) - - Show Bio

Brain dead question, of course.

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#26 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (7656 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. They've always reflected the current times, today's no different.

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#27 Posted by seastone98 (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

no politics r worst than aids no matter what side ur on

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#28 Posted by SaintWildcard (21783 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if they are trying to sell an agenda that is close to something that is currently happening, it can come off as preachy. But if they have political themes and maybe even elements of past historic events (like the Cold War) it can be very interesting.

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#29 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18251 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on the story and the reason mainly. If it's a story that contains multiple well known/beloved characters, examining them from several points of view to include political points of view can be very cool. In main stream comics I think writers pushing their own political agenda is out of place, but presenting the world and a realistic political landscape isn't a bad idea.

For more independent stuff, that's completely up to the creators. If they want to make a liberal manifesto that's also a great story? More power to them! If another creator wants to make a story that soap boxes for the NRA, and the story rocks? Go for it!

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#30 Edited by Spambot (9387 posts) - - Show Bio

Well if you think about Watchmen which is often called the greatest comic ever done and V for Vendetta they have definite political themes which were meant to resonate with the time they were written. I don't mind self contained overtly political comics. If a company is just ramming their own political ideology down their readers throats though then that's a bit too much. We don't need politics everywhere in them but if they fit a certain story then sure.

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#31 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

marvel and DC? no. indie comics? sure.

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#32 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvel4ever: Mr. Cooke apparently has a very, in my opinion, rudimentary take on comics. Am I to understand you agree with him?

And why would Vertigo (technically DC) or Image get a political pass, vs Marvel or DC?

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#33 Edited by FearTheLiving (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

Only if it's inline with the character's point of view and story even then to a minimum. The big 2 should only be tackling fictional politics if they want to resemble real life politics that's fine but the worlds are so different from ours it's a tad crazy to try and apply real life politics into these universes.

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#34 Posted by SPYDA-MAN (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

If it makes sense and not just a bunch of PC crap.

Like supes or cap vs the Nazis the xmen about segregation and cap vs ironman for freedom vs security. All the best stuff is always political or a byproduct of some sort of politics.

But the whole we gotta be PC crap is stupid like that black chick that's now ironman hell even the characters are going who the heck are you? If somebody is gunna replace an iconic figure it should be built up at least like falcon captain or something like that. Not just HEY WE DID THIS CUZ REASONS. That's not entertaining at all. Build up the character make them somebody you root for then give them the role.

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#35 Posted by comic_fan123 (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I prefer not, but it depends if the story is good

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#36 Posted by Dextersinister1 (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on what the author wants.

If the author wants his art to have a political message, he should insert one. This rule applies to all the arts, not just comics.

But if he doesn't, and instead just wants to make a fun, message free story, he should do that too.

Get the idea of some author trying to express his views out of your head, at least when you picture DC and Marvel. These comics are heavily edited, if you see political views it's because that's what a group of people decided should be in the comic.

If there are any people with anti-immigration, pro-gun, free speech, anti-left views in Marvel it will be a cold day in hell before they are ever allowed to express them.

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#37 Posted by DesperateCan (52 posts) - - Show Bio

No, there's enough propaganda already lol

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#38 Posted by mrmonster (15098 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister1: What about Civil War? That was a clear metaphor for gun control, and clearly biased towards the pro-gun stance.

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#39 Edited by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv said:

@captainmarvel4ever: Mr. Cooke apparently has a very, in my opinion, rudimentary take on comics. Am I to understand you agree with him?

And why would Vertigo (technically DC) or Image get a political pass, vs Marvel or DC?

100%

These characters who were made for the purpose of primarily giving kids a form of entertainment (that adults can enjoy too) and a sense of what's right and wrong, shouldn't be bogged down by stories with "mature" elements just because a reader feels too insecure about liking something for children. Which aside from being kind of sad in itself, makes less sense to me in this day in age where it's fine to like something like Pokemon (a superb example of a series for children that's so damn well made, nobody bats an eye when a teen or adult says they like it). Heck I actually feel more embarrassed seeing a film like Batman V Superman, which takes these characters of children's fantasy dressed in ridiculous costumes with names like "Superman" and "Batman" so insanely seriously, to the point where it has an R-rated cut. How far up is the fandom (and Zack Snyder for that matter) for sh!t like that to actually exist? What's even more insulting is thinking of how unnecessary it all is. Off the top of my head I can name 10 animated series based off comics (like Batman TAS, Avengers EMH, Wolverine and the X-Men, just to name a few) which are made to fit in with children's standards, but made with genuine effort and good writing so anyone can enjoy them. In other words, all ages material (not an insulting kid show, like Teen Titans Go). The final nail in this coffin that fans have made for themselves, is the fact that it's because of this mindset that comics have gone from something that was everywhere, to a super niche medium that the common man only knows through film. As Cooke has said, today's top selling comics compete with Jimmy Olsen's series from back in the day, which were numbers that could not keep it afloat. Back then there were comics for everyone (some older women I work with can still tell me about when they'd read Millie the Model), but die hard fans' insistence on adding in more mature themes to superheroes, means that they can't just be sold anywhere, they have to be regulated to book stores and comic shops (not that I'm knocking either of those places). Imagine if that never happened, maybe digital comics would be a house hold thing, maybe gas stations, grocery stores, and pharmacies would still be selling them, maybe comics wouldn't conform to the films, we wouldn't get as many stories for shock value or big dumb events. Not to mention companies like Image that cater more towards adult oriented stories, or Valiant and WildStorm (if it's in it's own universe) which are more teen driven, would all see a boost and get the recognition they've been seeking, since it would mean people looking for stories like that wouldn't be relying on the Marvel/DC universes.

Getting into the Image and Vertigo (as well as any other indie company) thing, those are stories thought up and owned by whoever wrote them, they're not using established characters that have certain expectations, they're writing what they want. As such, they can do what they like, there shouldn't be any reason they can't. Comics have an established rating system like any movie, show, book, or game.

(sorry for the long reply, but this means a lot to me)

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#40 Edited by devitciiu (688 posts) - - Show Bio

Like several people have mentioned here, comics have always been political and this is nothing new.

It's funny thinking back to something like the Adams/O'Neil run on Green Lantern, they only put out 12 issues before being cancelled but it's probably the most well known Green Lantern story arc of the Bronze, Silver or Golden age.

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#41 Posted by SeanDevlin (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Being a comic nerd from the UK, the Hellblazer series has a very special hear to me. You can't get any more political with classic Hellblazer (at least if your British). Everything from the crappy Margaret Thatcher administration, Falklands War, War on Terrorist to even bloody Football, Hellblazer spanned two decades of British polotical commentary. If it survived well over 2013, it would have even attacked Brexit too (that actually sounds like a great idea).

That's why we British nerds are pissed whenever John Constantine is taken from London to New York (like that stupid show), or being turned into an American (looking at you Keanu Reeves).

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#42 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

No. I hate feminism, lgbt and SJW who want equality and I shouldn't read about it in comic-books where heroes fight for those same things.

sarcasm

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#43 Posted by Gojira2512 (2104 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, every kind of story can fix into a comic.

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#44 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@seandevlin: One of the most memorable things about Brexit, at least from this American's view, was that the day after the vote was cast, the most searched things from that area on Twitter and Google were:

  • What is Brexit
  • What did we just vote for
  • We are f*(k$d
  • We are so f)(*ed
  • What is the EU
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#45 Posted by Reignmaker (2484 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by SeanDevlin (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva: Hahaha yeah. Bro you're American view of Brexit is nothing different to almost 75% of the British middle class population. We have no idea what the Hell was going on and what these politicians were even doing.

But man. Would I really wish of a John Constantine story where he has a say to what's happening to his country XD

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#47 Posted by redwingx (1359 posts) - - Show Bio

Comics have always been political, many of the superheroes personified certain current events. X-men symbolized Black discrimination back in the day, Northstar coming out during the rise of gay rights movement, Captain America was used as a symbol for American soldiers and the war on the Nazi. I don't see why they question it now when comics and political have always been going hand in hand.

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#48 Edited by Yassassin (7686 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvel4ever: Most of your post feels like you see the conclusion, but you're making your own narrative as to how comics got there. Fans wanting more mature themes had little to anything to do with comics falling out in sales or disputation. That's was mostly due to bad business in the 90's( ex. Speculative bubble, Diamond's monopoly, and this beautiful gem right here ) and raising prices but a stagnant amount of content. It also worth mention that there were clearly bushels of comic direct marketed for younger audience, hell they had their own imprint's(which I will admit, sometime surpassed their main universe counterparts)

There were a plethora of "mature"( it's worth mentioning that mature is bit of a broad term here) books that sold very well, look at almost anything Frank Miller did in the 80s, John Stewart's time in Mosaic, Moore's Swamp Thing( which didn't start in Vertigo,) Morrison Doom Patrol etc. etc. There was clearly a market for mature revision on cape camp classics, and Marvel and DC would have been silly to ignore them.

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#49 Edited by cattlebattle (17678 posts) - - Show Bio

Comics, specifically super hero comics, have always been liberal propaganda to be honest.

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#50 Posted by Billy Batson (60816 posts) - - Show Bio
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