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#1 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

Every since December of last year, when a certain movie came out that became very divisive among fans because of how it subverted expectations (tell me if I'm being too subtle, jk) and it has spurred a huge conversation around subverting expectations. If you need proof, just Google "subverting expectations" and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Personally, I believe the best example of how to subvert expectations the right way comes from A Study in Pink, the first episode of BBC's hit show Sherlock. If you haven't see it, 1) you should, it's a fantastic episode of a fantastic show, and 2) be warned that there are spoilers ahead. Here is the scene that is a perfect example of how to properly subvert expectations.

Every aspect of this scene, from the setting, to the background music, to the conversation itself, is meant to make us believe that the man Watson is talking to is Moriarty, or at least to some kind of villain. But he isn't.

When John says "So he's not...I don't know, a criminal mastermind.", he's not alone. That is exactly how the audience is supposed to feel. The man who we had every right to believe was a villain turned out to be just a concerned older brother.

And that, to me, is how to subvert expectations correctly. You lure the audience by making us believe we know exactly what's being set up, and then find a clever way of pulling the rug out from under us. In other words, make something original out of a preestablished way of setting up audience expectations. That is how you do it right.

What do you think are some other good examples of how to subvert expectations? What about examples of how not to do so? I'd love to hear from you down below.

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#2 Edited by Mister_Surreal (9055 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster: I can’t think of a very good example right now, but I did enjoy the big villain face reveal in The Flash season 2 which did subvert audience expectations.

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Moments after we witnessed the apparent death of “Jay Garrick”, we see the next scene with Zoom, the very person who murderd him. The music is dramatically playing, Zoom is snarling and we see him drop Jay Garrick’s body. As this happens, the music intensifies and has him reveal that “Jay Garrick” faked his own death. We later find out that it was actually Hunter Soloman who stole the real Jay Garrick’s identity to infiltrate Star Labs. It was partially confusing, but it was a very good way to tricking not only Team Flash but also the audience. Using one established comic book character and revealing them to another is very clever in my opinion. Not many people saw that twist coming.

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#3 Edited by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@mrmonster: I can’t think of a very good example right now, but I did enjoy the big villain face reveal in The Flash season 2 which did subvert audience expectations.

SPOILERS AHEAD

SPOILERS AHEAD

SPOILERS AHEAD

SPOILERS AHEAD

SPOILERS AHEAD

Moments after we witnessed the apparent death of “Jay Garrick”, we see the next scene with Zoom, the very person who murderd him. The music is dramatically playing, Zoom is snarling and we see him drop Jay Garrick’s body. As this happens, the music intensifies and has him reveal that “Jay Garrick” faked his own death. We later find out that it was actually Hunter Soloman who stole the real Jay Garrick’s identity to infiltrate Star Labs. It was partially confusing, but it was a very good way to tricking not only Team Flash but also the audience. Using one established comic book character and revealing them to another is very clever in my opinion. Not many people saw that twist coming.

Yes, that's another good example. They definitely good a job of subverting expectations our expectations about Jay Garrick, that's for sure.

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#4 Posted by Kevd4wg (12491 posts) - - Show Bio

God Sherlock is so good, even if S1 isn't that good. My personal favorite subversion of expectations in Sherlock(and there's a lot) was Sherlock's action at the end of S3(I think that would count at as subversion of expectation)

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#5 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

God Sherlock is so good, even if S1 isn't that good. My personal favorite subversion of expectations in Sherlock(and there's a lot) was Sherlock's action at the end of S3(I think that would count at as subversion of expectation)

I agree, I think it counts. I don't think we the audience would ever expect the hero in a story to commit a cold blooded murder like that.

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#6 Posted by Kevd4wg (12491 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@mrmonster: He’s not exactly an ordinary hero

Still, not something that audience expects.

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#8 Edited by Kevd4wg (12491 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@mrmonster: He’s not exactly an ordinary hero

Still, not something that audience expects.

True enough, god this thread is making me remember just how much I love Sherlock

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#9 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherlock was simply astonishing . I maybe wrong(or totally wrong lol) about this but i thought S2's 2nd epsiode was a subversion of expectations , who would have thought the killer would have killed in such a way lol . Either way i just wanted to share my thoughts on Sherlock which i actually never did b4 on CV .

Idk whether they are gonna do another season or not but i guess it might be too late to expect things like that .

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#10 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:
@mrmonster said:
@kevd4wg said:

@mrmonster: He’s not exactly an ordinary hero

Still, not something that audience expects.

True enough, god this thread is making me remember just how much I love Sherlock

I agree. The show is awesome. The Reichenbach Fall is one of my favorite episodes of any TV show.

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#11 Posted by mrmonster (14624 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherlock was simply astonishing . I maybe wrong(or totally wrong lol) about this but i thought S2's 2nd epsiode was a subversion of expectations , who would have thought the killer would have killed in such a way lol . Either way i just wanted to share my thoughts on Sherlock which i actually never did b4 on CV .

Idk whether they are gonna do another season or not but i guess it might be too late to expect things like that .

Mark Gattis (the actor who plays Mycroft) said that if it does happen, it'll be a long way's off. But I do hope they make another season, I absolutely love Sherlock.

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#12 Edited by Kevd4wg (12491 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:
@mrmonster said:
@kevd4wg said:

@mrmonster: He’s not exactly an ordinary hero

Still, not something that audience expects.

True enough, god this thread is making me remember just how much I love Sherlock

I agree. The show is awesome. The Reichenbach Fall is one of my favorite episodes of any TV show.

I agree, for me S2 and 3 were the pinnacle of the show. Personally my favorite episode is The Sign of Three, particularly due to Sherlock's speech at the wedding, but all of them were fantastic.

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#13 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Gattis (the actor who plays Mycroft) said that if it does happen, it'll be a long way's off. But I do hope they make another season, I absolutely love Sherlock.

If it happens i will be really hyped about this :) .

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#16 Posted by CyberpunkCop (2779 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah because long lost dead sisters with psychic abilities and comical motives are good subversions

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#17 Edited by seran_seran (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Congratulations. This was the first video critiquing the Last Jedi that didn’t make my eyes roll out of my skull. You were fair, even-handed, had actual complaints related to character arcs, focused on its progressivism actually being half-baked and failing to meet its own standards, and competently showcased how its tone affected its narrative impact, and I can respect all of that. This is the first time I feel like I’ve watched an intelligent critic explain why they disliked the movie. Subscribed. https://subwaysurfers.vip/ , https://psiphon.vip/ , https://hillclimbracing.vip/

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#18 Posted by Lan_Fan (12679 posts) - - Show Bio

I REALLY like this show.

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#19 Posted by Morpheus_ (34323 posts) - - Show Bio

As good as the show used to be, saying Sherlock subverts expectations "the right way" is extremely ironic, given the utterly ridiculous manner they wrapped things up in seasons 3 and 4.

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#20 Posted by the_stegman (40135 posts) - - Show Bio

In an unrelated note, I've started watching Elementary and I'm shocked at how good it is.

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#21 Posted by Morpheus_ (34323 posts) - - Show Bio

In an unrelated note, I've started watching Elementary and I'm shocked at how good it is.

It's definitely a decent show. Neither Elementary nor Sherlock have truly captured the essence of Conan Doyle's character, though. Between the two, Elementary is relatively more faithful.

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#22 Posted by Fabricolage (1881 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah because long lost dead sisters with psychic abilities and comical motives are good subversions

But dat moriarty entrance tho.