@HexThis: Artists have the right to put out whatever they want regardless of who gets offended because of their Victorian sense of morality, and you have the choice not to buy it. I suggest you go to your local retailer and ask for the statistics of how many males and females are subscribed, you'll see there is a HUGE difference, and it reflects in the sales, also, how many male artists against female? It looks to me that girls aren't showing that much interest in the medium, just as men really don't watch soaps. By the way, there are a lot of quasi-feminist books you could check out like Hepcats, Strangers in Paradise, Echo, The Ballad of Halo Jones, Tank Girl, Grendel (specially when Christine Spar took the mantle), the Death minis, X-Men Legacy as of lately, and the X-Books in general contain strong female characters, Wonder Woman, Buffy, the Guild, Dollhouse, you should be checking out the brand new Womantology... Did you actually read that Claremont/Manara one-shot??? The X-Girls take down a whole bunch of mean men, if that's not empowering, I don't know what is... by the way, using your logic, this should be sexist:
"Victorian sense of morality"....are you joking me? I said in the scene where Catwoman and Batman got it on that they should've featured angles where Batman was more visible because I thought the scene was hot. The difference between that and a beloved character prostituting herself out to random men like Starfire is quite large. It makes sense to have nudity and sexuality where it is needed, I'm not opposed to that. But in instances where it completely dismisses the character, where the character is in some way degraded or humiliated in way that's meant to be titillating, or a situation in which the character is put in a sexual position through convenient, fan-service means is not something that's appealing to me.
And I don't think asking that artists and writers be less sexist is infringing upon their rights. Some people don't like how Asian people were depicted as being almost jaundice or early renderings of black people didn't paint them in the most favorable light. Simply because a person has a right to draw those things it doesn't mean those of us who are outraged don't have a right to be ourselves....we are customers after.
Plus, Manara draw porn for a living, that's what he does. I'm not opposed to porn, he can do as he likes but when it impedes on characters like this, in this way, in a comic that was supposed to appeal to women...it's just downright offensive and dumb. I don't care how many "mean guys" they beat up. They were still put in positions like this...
And this image....
@spikevalentine said:
What about lesbians in comic books, is that sexist or progressive?
It depicts Angel FULLY CLOTHED, basked in shadows to a point where it obstructs him, and you can hardly see anything at all. Torture is something that is bound to come up in comics but I bet that for every example you can find of a man put in a position like this where he is being sexualized there are 20 examples of women put in that situation that are 10 times more salacious.
So many people seem confused as to what feminism actually is. You ARE a feminist if you believe that women should have equal rights as men. Yeah, equal; not greater. That's all there is to it.
The "feminists are crazy" thing - which puts people off the word - comes from the very, very few man-haters who mistakenly call themselves feminists. Please don't buy into that bullshit.
Basically, saying "I am not a feminist" means that you are an ass.
Not targeting you, Mr B Town, but it saddens me to see people reject a term of equality based on a negative stereotype.
Yes... This is true. Just as Chauvenism is always wrongfully interpreted as the men's side of feminism.
To make the terminologies clear: feminism = masculism = fights for equality mysogyny = mysandry = hatred of the other sex gynophobia = androphobia = fear of the other sex
That Picture of Batwoman makes me worried, she may strangle me when I go to buy a loaf of bread D:.
@pixelized said:
@spikevalentine said:
To star with, we are talking about fictional characters, really to think that is equivalent to rape, sexual harassment, and other real forms of sexism, is to have no regard for the suffering of those who actually suffer it.
HUH?
I agree with the HUH? here. Even if something is "fictional"(really we pop out of a womb and all have a unique personality and take on life, that sounds pretty "fictional" as well) it can symbolize something that's a problem in the world that needs to be confronted.
Just from that comment I can tell that you've never read the manga or seen anime the series. There were some pretty big changes after that first movie. As far as the "knows her place" line. Watch the movie Ghost in the Shell: Solid State Society. There is a reason why so many call her "The Major".
Considering the history of comic books...no ones really been reading the damn things for plot until...well now lol.
I agree with Babs because personally Power Girl may be an interesting character but I'll never know because the little cleavage cut-off has just always undermined for me any amount of integrity that writing might carry or any amount of integrity Power Girl might possess for that matter.
The fact of it all though is that the history of comics still haunts our generation of comics to this day. Comics came up from a place in time where it was making money off of being risque and edgy and mostly sexual and so sexism survives in it today because there are still grown dudes who grew up when buying naughty comics were taboo and off limits and now they're not relying on Mom's allowance money for their jollies.
But its just like anything really, comics don't get better until the people get better. Eric's right. The stuff doesn't sell if people aren't buying it.
to be perfectly honest, I couldnt help but look at Starfire's "center fold"-esk design. It was pretty gorgeous. I can at least appreciate some pretty art designs when it comes my way.
To move forward with people's disapointment in Star's...rather open, sexual behavior. Yeah, it does kind of suck, that it just seems like she's opening her legs for everything; but people fail to point the same kind of behavior from the male leads. "Yeah, I'll tap that right here, right now" attitude speaks just as loudly as Star's "you want to have sex?" I fail to see why this is controversy is centering around ONE character, when all THREE share similar mentalities.
You know it's actually a relief to see a message like this. I'm a very passionate person in addition to being Female, nerdy, possibly Asperger, socialist and somewhat feminist; so this kind of stuff make my blood boil. It is nice to have someone supporting us, but also trying to pacify the issue (this is so not good my liver)
It shouldn't be so obvious, comics are a great medium therefor we should be able to pass it to children without reviewing them first, next i read it for superhero stuff i don't care what they do when their hormonal level is off balance... shameful to see they feel the need to show some things like that to attract people or maybe as a new form of self exhibition. I don't care about some expressive images or power girl outfit but the picture from the outlaws up here...that's too much when we see people identifying themselves to fictional character the society 's behavior toward those stuff is already f*cked up so comic book author shouldn't go that way. They want realism they can be realist and implicit.
I love how Top Cow not only has a female flagship character, but that they've also managed to produce a strong variety of female characters with consistent depth and personality. I hope to see this trend continue in the comic industry as a whole.
@HexThis: Well you seem to have a problem with sexy outfits, that unless they were coerced to wear, it's not sexist, some girls feel empowered by looking sexy. Manara did draw porn, so? Is that sexist? That is what I meant with "Victorian sense of morality", hetero males like to see sexy ladies, so? That's like engraved in our brains by evolution. By the way, this was my bad, the original comic of the X-Men with that scene depicts Angel with nothing more than some like Mormon diapers covering him, not to mention Callisto wanted to coerce him to be his "king" but I couldn't find it... SO FUCKING WHAT? It's fiction. I like to read Punisher and Uncanny X-Force, that doesn't make me pro-murder, unlike some republicans. And Starfire wanted sex, I did not see money exchange, so you have something against women that like sex, well, THAT'S SEXIST!!! Women have the right to like sex if they want to, and have as much as they like.
Finally, Americans get this wrong all the time in my experience... You do not have the right not to be offended, you have the right to free speech (as most occidental countries do, even more so than in the USA, as a matter of fact). If an idea offends you, tough luck, get away from them, or make change and write comics, if you write good stories, I'll support you. But no, you do not have the right to force change because something offends you (unless a real law is transgressed, for instance, you have the right to be neo-Nazi as long as you don't hurt Jewish people). America is supposed to be a marketplace of ideas, not censorship. I find religions offensive and demeaning to humans in general, but that doesn't give me the right to ban it, I just don't attend any ceremonies. I'm half Mexican, half French, by the way, not a neo-Nazi or whatever :P
Then Again people keep missing the point. We don't care that Starfire sleeps around and is naked, the problem is removing her personality and turning her into a Sex Doll. If she was naked and having a threesome with Roy, Dick, and Jason but kept her sweet caring personality then it would be fine.
The problem is not the sex, or the costume, or whatever; the problem is that the character has nothing besides that. This is not a person, this is Male Fantasy
I agree that these cartoonists and inkers need a life and they shouldn't portray women as Amazon/ Barbie bombshells. But at the same time, our heores need some sex appeal in order to make them a bit more real to the readers because we exactly go backwards with corny banter and American Christian over tones. As readers, we should try to express our concern to the cartoonists of DC and ask them to use this obscure sex appeal as an obstacle or conflict that our heroines must overcome. I believe everyone will agree with me that our heroines have proven time and time that they are more than just a body with T & A. As for Starfire, I mean honestly guys, she has always been a free spirit. Starfire is kinda like a bad ass hippie. She can be maternal, tough and of course very sexy.
Both Wonder Woman and Batwoman are great books. Being a dude, I try and not buy stuff that is obviously exploitative. But I think it usually falls on the creators shoulders to change this kind of thing. I don't think this sort of thing raises enough of a blip in the general audience to make number of issues sold a factor. It would be nice to think otherwise, but it's really ahrd to imagine. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
@HexThis: Well you seem to have a problem with sexy outfits, that unless they were coerced to wear, it's not sexist, some girls feel empowered by looking sexy. Manara did draw porn, so? Is that sexist? That is what I meant with "Victorian sense of morality", hetero males like to see sexy ladies, so? That's like engraved in our brains by evolution. By the way, this was my bad, the original comic of the X-Men with that scene depicts Angel with nothing more than some like Mormon diapers covering him, not to mention Callisto wanted to coerce him to be his "king" but I couldn't find it... SO FUCKING WHAT? It's fiction. I like to read Punisher and Uncanny X-Force, that doesn't make me pro-murder, unlike some republicans. And Starfire wanted sex, I did not see money exchange, so you have something against women that like sex, well, THAT'S SEXIST!!! Women have the right to like sex if they want to, and have as much as they like.
Finally, Americans get this wrong all the time in my experience... You do not have the right not to be offended, you have the right to free speech (as most occidental countries do, even more so than in the USA, as a matter of fact). If an idea offends you, tough luck, get away from them, or make change and write comics, if you write good stories, I'll support you. But no, you do not have the right to force change because something offends you (unless a real law is transgressed, for instance, you have the right to be neo-Nazi as long as you don't hurt Jewish people). America is supposed to be a marketplace of ideas, not censorship. I find religions offensive and demeaning to humans in general, but that doesn't give me the right to ban it, I just don't attend any ceremonies. I'm half Mexican, half French, by the way, not a neo-Nazi or whatever :P
Wow there buddy. A lot of what you said didn't make much sense. For one, I believe you meant to say that Americans do have the right not to be offended. Unless your sentence structure was just completely incorrect or you were saying that is what Americans think. Also, you are making a lot of assumptions about HexThis's arguments. They said nothing about not liking women who don't like sex. Or not liking the sexy outfits people wear.
Sexy women are not the only thing engraved into men's brains. Some men are naturally attracted to men as well.
I find it kinda funny that you continue to make arguments about something you find do not need arguments. It is very illogical. If you don't care because these characters are fictional, then why do you continue to argue for or against them?
Next I have to point out yet another illogical reasoning you have. If an idea offends you tough luck? Do you know how many laws are in place to prevent certain ideas from being expressed? Do you know how much stuff is censored in the United States? I am not even talking about Media. Also, what if we lived in the pre-civil rights era. If black people didn't like the idea that they couldn't drink out of the same drinking fountain as white people, tough luck for them? Do you know how many sick, hateful and completely stupid ideas existed before? Still exist now? Do you know how much people suffered for it? America is a market place of ideas. But there are a lot of ideas that are not allowed. The United States have anti-discrimination laws. The United States has censorship laws. The United States has a lot of laws in place to prevent the spread and usage of a lot of ideas.
Also, Neo-Nazis not only hate Jews, they hate African Americans, Homosexuals, Asians, Latinos, Native Americans, Catholics, and people with different political or religious opinions. Many people have tried to get these groups banned in the United States. These people actively do so because of the vitriol Neo-Nazis think, speak and do. Ideas are the most dangerous weapons a human can possess.
Which brings me to another point. While you exercise your right to not get offended. I have just as much reasoning to exercise my right to get offended. The coin does have two sides.
Also, since you indicated that you have Republican tendencies, guess what political party tries to ban the idea of homosexuality among other things.
@G-Man: don't read it. if you grew up on batman (like i have) that sight at the end is terrible and you have a combination of feelings that may include needing to take a long shower/ cry like ralph wiggum/cauterize your eyes.
People need to chill out about sexism in comics. Who cares exceptm for someone stupid feminist organization(s) really. Sexism is everywhere deal with it. I personally don't care because I think some of the characters that are subjected to sexism are some of the best I love Power Girl; She-Hulk; & a ton others because they're usually good characters with great backgrounds & powers. Wonder Woman was sexist as heck I learned that on History's special on comics. But people will get over it. Don't like it don't acknowledge it or buy it simple as that.
Who justified Power Girl's boob window? Power Girl or a male writer?
Pictures this.
Power Girl drives to work and meets up with Superman, Batman, and the Flash at the Hall of Justice. Its her first day and she doesn't have a costume. Before she goes home she notices Flash, Superman and Batman all have logos spread proudly across their chest to represent what it is they bring to the table. She comes back the next day with a costume and where everyone else has a logo representing what their contribution is to the Hall of Justice she just has a small chest window where you can peak in on her boobs like a fish-tank. Wonder Woman's armor represents her heritage, Supergirl's symbol represents her family, Batgirl's represents an oath, Power Girl's shows off her tits. I apologize for my failure to detect a modicum of integrity in that. You may dig on all that but I don't.
And I'm not stereotyping a damn thing. Comic books as we know them came from a type of tradition where they had to be violent and raunchy to make that "pushing the envelope" buck where competitors could not. I work at a magazine store where the only people who buy porn magazines are 40 and up. Why do you think that is when the stuff is free online? Because they didnt grow up with the internet. They grew up sneaking peeks at Playboy behind the schoolyard where the teacher cant see. You grow up being told you cant do something and then watch it turn to gold before your very eyes. That printed page turned into something more than just ink in the form of boobs on paper. That's what we've inherited and interpreted as sexism in comics. Thats what i'm saying. Some people love it and some people avoid it. I avoid it.
Then Again people keep missing the point. We don't care that Starfire sleeps around and is naked, the problem is removing her personality and turning her into a Sex Doll. If she was naked and having a threesome with Roy, Dick, and Jason but kept her sweet caring personality then it would be fine.
The problem is not the sex, or the costume, or whatever; the problem is that the character has nothing besides that. This is not a person, this is Male Fantasy
I didn't read Catwoman...don't even know if I plan to, but I did read Red Hood and the Outlaws and really enjoyed it. I guess that makes me an average sexist guy who loves staring at half naked women. But really, that's not why I enjoyed it. Sure, Starfire wore some scanty clothing and she was sexual...but...before the relaunch didn't she also hardly wear any clothing too? I mean her chest wasn't exactly covered up back then, either. I think GraveSp made a great article and should be read. It's great and explains their theory on the new Starfire...who I really have no problem with. /kanye shrug /
Good start with this article Sara. What I would like to see is a regular series of articles on those comics that do highlight positive female role models. Like a great person once said "It is better to shine a light than curse the darkness."
Well Sara can protest all she wants but i think it won't change anything, Let's face it the majority of readers are male and teenagers or in their twenties, with raging hormones. Publishers know how to use this and it will result in more sales. Besides this is the same in other media as well, just look at tv shows, movies, commercials etc. this is nothing new and will probably always be around. Of course this doesn't mean she should stop voicing her opinion, but like she said herself it looks like there won't be an end to this discussion, and guess what there won't be.
I do feel Americans in general get way to easilly offended by sex in any media then again, i did find the scene with Starfire way unrealistic and done wrong. Why? because i didn't get the feeling Starfire would really enjoy having sex with him, it seemed she was bored and wanted something to do and it made a major character look like a bimbo. Maybe in a few issues down the road after some flirtation it might have been more realistic. I'm not offended by the sex but more that she is made to look like a bimbo, and i can't see her in a hero role anymore.
Another example is Detective comics #1 where these 2 girls are almost attached to Bruce Wayne, i could have done without that because it makes Bruce look stupid, we all know he's a rich playboy, sure it's a #1 comic but i think the flirtation between Jai and him established that fine, which i liked btw, that seemed way more realistic and enjoyed by both.
Sex is in the real world, why shouldn't it be in comics. I don't understand why people seem to only treat comics this way. If a movie comes out that an individual thinks is too racy, violent, gory, scary, mature, etc; that person doesn't watch it. Why are we treating comics differently than we treat other entertainment? If you don't want to see it, don't buy it.
@drumguyrob: Some of us treat it different because comics medium is dying. Its not competitive anymore with video games and movies and like the internet. Numbers/sales drop faster respectively than other mediums. Comics rate of fans moving away from it and its influx of new fans, nyeh, a tiny bit depressing. Least, that's how I understand it. *smile*
Well now I feel guilty for owning a poster of the Adam Hughes Power Girl cover. If we're sending the message that we want change by not purchasing the comics that have committed these offenses, that doesn't leave much left for me to read. Oh well, I guess I'll go read ALF.
I think your confusion comes from understanding the concept of "integrity". For instance I dont think prostitutes from Sin City do much for the integrity of your argument. Nor does the comparison of Power Man (once a caricature of blaxploitation until Bendis got a hold of him) to Power Girl do your position any justice because Luke Cage cleaned up his act. Luke Cage grew up.
Power Girl even explains to Superman "the first time I made this costume, I wanted to have a symbol, like you. I just…I couldn’t think of anything. I thought eventually, I’d figure it out. And close the hole. But I haven’t."
So she LEFT it?
From Power Girls perspective she doesnt have to hide what shes obviously proud of but its a vital position on her body that typically represents something important about each hero and communicates to me that she must not have any real depth to her because she was obviously incapable of thinking that far ahead or because shes an inflated tongue in cheek product of fan service who is at best a clone of Supergirl.
And hey man, if you like that okay. Do it up. Its not what i'm getting at. I'm just saying you have strong heroines like Wonder Woman and Batwoman, Cassandra Cain and Barbara who are all wearing skin tight sleeveless legless whatevers because they are proud to display their bodies or they just feel comfortable. Cool. That's admirable. I just think someone claiming they're a superheroine showing off their boobs where heroes typically carry their symbols is an oversight so bad it carries over from the writer to the character.
One step better I think is to try and support indie comic book titles when they do such things as gender balance well. I think DC and Marvel can get confused with attributing success with books, because there are so many different complicated and mixed, clashing, aiding, reasons to attribute success and failure to a book.
Very much what I was going to say, there are some fabulous titles out there that have sexy chica's that are strong characters with a great sense of who they are. They are excellent role models and do away with the need to have a man man make them what they are.
Platinum Grit
Platinum Grit is one of my favs, the lead girl is sexy as hell, funny and smart as anything. Her cohort is a nerdy guy madly in love with her, they make a great and very funny pair.
Well now I feel guilty for owning a poster of the Adam Hughes Power Girl cover. If we're sending the message that we want change by not purchasing the comics that have committed these offenses, that doesn't leave much left for me to read. Oh well, I guess I'll go read ALF.
INDIE COMICS! its something the staff rarely talk about on here as DC and Marvel have more to offer them, but trust me there are tons of titles out there that are well and truly worth reading and are not full of sexism and bland characters!
nice article, and yes, i really am getting quite annoyed by people complaining over something that's existed since comics themselves, it''s making a mountain out of a mole hill
the fact that you....and I (to an extent) see it as a mole hill just shows how desensitized we've become to it. Just because it's existed since the dawn of time (like many other things) doesn't mean it's not a problem.
I don't think that stopping buying a certain title due to poor characterisation is the answer to the subject of sexism in comics, especially in team books. If we all stopped buying team books because of one characters poor characterisation then there would be very few comics on the shelf.
I think you touch on the right point Sara when you say that we should be celebrating the good, the strong, well written female characters in comics. I don't think anyone is saying that sex should not be a subject included in comics, i just think that people need to recognise the difference between a character as a sexual being and a sexist character, especially when it comes to women. I think this is, in part, due to the fact that the majority of comics are written by men and, let's face it, men can be pretty clumsy when it comes to the subject of women and sex and especially when it comes into putting words into their mouth regarding the subject. It can be done though.
The best examples i can think of are Tulip from Preacher, a complete sexual being who expressed as such whist still being a whole and complex character. Kate Kane, the new Batwoman, Renee Montoya, the New Question, Marv Wolfman's Starfire, Spider Woman and those are just the ones from mainstream comics.
I think as MIstress Redhead stated, if you really want stronger characterisation of your characters then the indie market is where you find realism. I have to admit that it's pretty difficult to portray realism in a bunch of folks who run around in skintight spandex. Indie comics are free of such constraint and when you don't have to have a fight scene every three pages, you can really wok on the characters a bit more.
I think the key is that sexism usually comes from poor writing. Having starfire be as sexually abrupt as she was in Red Hood And The Outlaws struck me as purely sensationalist. It's hard for writers to provide new characterisations, new slants and angles to pre-existing characters and this seems like a response to that problem. Something shocking or eye grabbing is easier than something truly provocative. It doesn't matter the size of Power Girls breasts. That, in and of itself is not sexist, look up any work by The Hernandez Bros to see what i mean. It is purely the inner workings of hte character that makes them sexist or not. If all they are there for is as objects of sexual titilation for teen boys or post teen men, then they are probably sexist and not worth your time.
I think they may not be worth your energy also and i would suggest that you use that energy spreading the word on the great characters out there and there are a lot.
i'm confused if it was a dude who slept with multiple girls on the team and not caring people would call that sexist. men are protrayed overly muscled, and most men seem to be astoudingly good looking and getting a lot of sex. it seems kinda equal as it should be. this not real. maybe its sexist that people think the red hood and catwomen are.
The fact that Starfire was promiscuous did not bother me at all. The thing that bothered me was her utter lack of any personality. With no personality, her promiscuity became her defining trait. Not only is that sexist, it also makes for an incredibly uninteresting character.
My thoughts exactly
Sexism is not only a problem we see comics, but in virtually every medium. The sad truth is that in today's society our morals are slowly diminishing everyday, and to be honsit the fact that there are only two book that have people talking is a surprise. I feel that people sometimes lose site of the fact that like any mass medium that comics #1 goal is to make money and in order to make money they must appese the target audience, which is prodominatly male. The solution is to not complain and boycott books, because for ever person who does this there will be atleast one other who buys it for the same reason. The solution is to support books that have a weoman portrayed in a possitive way, becuse sexism will always exist, but I do not ever see people complaining about woman written in a possitive way, so do this becuse DC and Marvel dont care about negative critism by angry fans, but they will react if they see possitive comments.
One step better I think is to try and support indie comic book titles when they do such things as gender balance well. I think DC and Marvel can get confused with attributing success with books, because there are so many different complicated and mixed, clashing, aiding, reasons to attribute success and failure to a book.
Very much what I was going to say, there are some fabulous titles out there that have sexy chica's that are strong characters with a great sense of who they are. They are excellent role models and do away with the need to have a man man make them what they are.
Platinum Grit
Platinum Grit is one of my favs, the lead girl is sexy as hell, funny and smart as anything. Her cohort is a nerdy guy madly in love with her, they make a great and very funny pair.
OOh, thank you MR, I am going to ask about that next time I am in LCS, (Platinum Grit) sounds cute/quirky. *smile*
I love my Marvel and DC books, sometimes its nice just to see writers/artists putting the story/characters ahead of other factors.
Here's a thing I don't understand about this debate that is completely obvious and yet at the same time a completely double standard.................we have dozens of male characters running around in skin tight outfits and not a single person comments on it.
Skin tight outfits != general lack of outfit at all. A good proportion of superheroes wear skin-tight outfits; when was the last time you saw a guy superhero fight in an outfit that had a hole cut out of the middle so you can see their well-proportioned chest? Or hell, just cut away most of the costume so you can see it a la Star Sapphires? I for one would love to see how ridiculous the proper male version of a Star Sapphire would look like (except they'd probably just colour Hal's regular suit purple hah).
Courtesy of Comics Alliance. Just leaving it here because it makes me laugh.
EDIT:
@aussiebushwacker said:
i'm confused if it was a dude who slept with multiple girls on the team and not caring people would call that sexist. men are protrayed overly muscled, and most men seem to be astoudingly good looking and getting a lot of sex. it seems kinda equal as it should be. this not real. maybe its sexist that people think the red hood and catwomen are.
Hahaha oh man I would love to see that happen, but guess what? It never would! The problem isn't the fact the the super heroine isn't sleeping around; after all, we're not slut-shaming here. It's the fact that that detail seems to only exist to serve some male fantasy with the only facet to her personality being that "she sleeps around" (apart from amnesia so she can't remember who she's slept with), and as a reason to get her out in her undies half the time so she can pose to the reader.
Who is she even looking at (whilst simultaneously showing both her breasts and her bum)? The reader, d'accord!
To me, the only genuinely great female characters in comics at the moment are Psylocke, Batgirl and X-23 (I haven't picked up Batwoman #1 so I hope I can add her to the list). I miss the Ms. Marvel and She Hulk series, they were also great; being aware of what they are (hot girls in spandex) but not necessarily exploiting it.
Oh, and Emma and Kitty in Astonishing X-Men. But of course it was Joss and if there's one person who can write a strong female it's Joss.
One step better I think is to try and support indie comic book titles when they do such things as gender balance well. I think DC and Marvel can get confused with attributing success with books, because there are so many different complicated and mixed, clashing, aiding, reasons to attribute success and failure to a book.
Very much what I was going to say, there are some fabulous titles out there that have sexy chica's that are strong characters with a great sense of who they are. They are excellent role models and do away with the need to have a man man make them what they are.
Platinum Grit
Platinum Grit is one of my favs, the lead girl is sexy as hell, funny and smart as anything. Her cohort is a nerdy guy madly in love with her, they make a great and very funny pair.
OOh, thank you MR, I am going to ask about that next time I am in LCS, (Platinum Grit) sounds cute/quirky. *smile* I love my Marvel and DC books, sometimes its nice just to see writers/artists putting the story/characters ahead of other factors.
Its a FABULOUS book, I even got Arrow to read it, it is a bit close to my heart as the writer/artist are both Australian, plus it was the comic that truly got me into the world!
Damn this thread picked up fast through the night. Don't you people sleep? Just kidding but some of the comments on here are really funny.
Let's go outside the realm of comic books for a minute and talk about film. The Twilight Saga. Those 3 little words bring no amount of anguish and dread to any guy and an almost absurd level of giddiness and puppy love of most teenage girls and many an adult woman. My wife went to see the second film with a female friend and the friend's mother. She was thoroughly disgusted, and by the time she got home, angry at how ridiculous the entire premise of the series is (she also read the first book so she knew what she was actually watching) and how she wished she could remove the ability to hear because of all the sighs, giggles, fauning, and every other stupid sound women make (men just grunt, pretty simple) when they are eyeing a piece of meat.
And that's not the only example. There are tons of movies and television shows (soaps come to mind) where the point is to show off extremely hot guys so they ladies can have their fun too. Plus, most of these movies that are considered "chick films" are about women going out and banging guys. AN ENTIRE TV SERIES WAS BASED ON THIS PREMISE! Women loved Sex and the City and the premise of the show is nothing different than what female comic book readers are complaining about in comics. Sure real life women don't look like comic book characters but if you loved a show whose entire premise is a group of female friends constantly trying to get laid and then talking/gossiping about it to each other, WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT NOW!
We have become a society of obesity, laziness, and general blamers of everything on someone else..............and because of that we have become a culture of extreme's when it comes to the human body and sexual actions. We are so digusted by ourselves, as a whole....you may love your own body.....that we need to look at perfection as a sick way of making ourselves more conscious of what we aren't achieving. Straight up fact. Prove to me I'm wrong. Find me the tv show, movie, book, comic, or any other form of media that does the opposite. Think of how truly rare it is to find an ugly person in a form of media these days and then look at how successful, or I should say unsuccessful, it has been.
Another point............can anyone point out an issue where a male comic book hero has been congratulated for sleeping around? I mean really, people talk about the fact that Hal Jordan got alot of ass but has he ever been complimented by another hero for it? Have him and Oliver gone to a bar and talked about their conquests? Not to my memory. I remember an early issue of the last Supergirl series where Kara comments how it was annoying to change rooms because someone was hooking up with someone different almost nightly. Didn't say who. Didn't put the blame on the women. It was a completely neutral statement of her entire team and their actions.
Here's a thing I don't understand about this debate that is completely obvious and yet at the same time a completely double standard.................we have dozens of male characters running around in skin tight outfits and not a single person comments on it.
Skin tight outfits != general lack of outfit at all. A good proportion of superheroes wear skin-tight outfits; when was the last time you saw a guy superhero fight in an outfit that had a hole cut out of the middle so you can see their well-proportioned chest? Or hell, just cut away most of the costume so you can see it a la Star Sapphires? I for one would love to see how ridiculous the proper male version of a Star Sapphire would look like (except they'd probably just colour Hal's regular suit purple hah).
Courtesy of Comics Alliance. Just leaving it here because it makes me laugh.
This is so true men and women are drawn with perfect bodies but male characters dont wear stripper outfits.
It is hard to say anything specific here either in agreement or disagreement with Babs' article. She has some valid points, yet also, I think perhaps they may be points not everyone agrees with nor cares too much about and I don't say that to be uncaring.
I think though, this example of Starfire may have gone a bit too extreme. I think, in my opinion, the writer tried to portray Starfire as being very independent, and this is how she has always been portrayed, a free spirit, which actually translates that from her culture and people, also involves intimacy. Just putting it out there the way Starfire did, well, that illustrates the point, but I think it could have been written a bit better without being so blatant about it, perhaps.
In a way, it is a bit odd, because Starfire is being portrayed as being rather independent and her own woman. I don't think it is sexist but she is being sexual here.
I think you're making it a bit easy for yourself here. See, in our society there are certain gender-specific expectations that come with both being male as well as being female. Comics especially tend to reduce a lot of their characters to these expectations. The picture painted there often is as very one-dimentional and represtens was was considered an "ideal male" like 60 years ago as much as it does with the females.
And like i said, it may not be done to appeal to women, but it the end it's just as much sexist. Look at a playgirl magazine and the poses the men make there or how men who are supposed to stimulate female fantasies are presented personalitywise. It's pretty much EXACTLY what we see in superhero comics. I think it's a really one sided sort of view to act like it's what men want for themselfs instead of what is expected of them. But of course, there seems to be no acceptance of that kind of problem in general...
Log in to comment