Secret Facebook Page Reveals Marvel, DC Comics Writers Conspiring to Harass Comic-Con Conservatives (warning language)

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#1 Posted by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

First let me tell you except for the language warning this isn't my title. I don't have an opinion on the article yet as I haven't finished reading the full thing myself. I'm going to do so after posting. Anyway this is from PJMedia. I don't really know all that much about them and a google search says they're conservative. As always take things with a grain of salt.

I posted a tweet by a comic writer that is offensive and has language that breaks the rules. I hope with the warning in the title and be putting it in a spoiler block you will let it pass.

The comic book world has had its share of scandals, including the very recent and highly protested revelation that Captain America is really a Nazi, angering fans worldwide. Mark Waid, who recently took over the Captain America comic book for Marvel, has stepped into more hot water after appearing to call out a fan and popular YouTube reviewer for targeted harassment at this year's Comic-Con on his Facebook page.

Richard Meyer has a YouTube channel called Diversity & Comics, where he reviews current comic books. Most of his reviews mock the overreaching and suffocating leftist messaging that has infiltrated the entire industry. I've seen enough of them to say with confidence that Meyer seems like a pretty nice guy with a passion for comic books. His reviews contain no swearing or major insults, just mild humor and a lot of chuckling.

Meyer is just shy of 40,000 subscribers. He has more viewers than "The Avengers" comic book had readers in August.

To make matters worse and more embarrassing for the SJW crowd of comic book writers, a secret Facebook page was revealed where writers plotted to target Meyer with harassment meant to incite violence.

In case you missed the craziness yesterday, here's the screen grab. pic.twitter.com/Y07lqVs3Xe

— Jon Del Arroz ?????? (@jondelarroz) September 21, 2017

Taylor Esposito is a letterer for DC Comics and is clearly seen on the not-so-secret Facebook page insinuating that critics of their comics are likely to be violent, calling them "nutjobs." Kelly Thompson of Marvel's Star Wars Phasma and IDW's infamous lady Ghostbusters joined in, claiming fear of the awful critics as the major reason she's never been to a con as a professional. B. Clay Moore, who seems to have written something a long time ago, actually suggests harassing Meyer to the point of violence.

Meyer's videos are low budget, filmed with his phone usually while sitting in his car or house flipping through comic books and chatting about the stories and plot lines, artwork and themes. It's not exactly a hate crime. He is knowledgeable, interesting and intelligent and he clearly loves comic books. But he, and others like him, are facing an industry that seems to not want them anymore.

Jon Del Arroz is an award-nominated science fiction writer, contributor at The Federalist and author of the upcoming space novella Gravity of the Game. He has followed the industry problems closely.

There's a disconcerting trend on the left because the black-balling attempts in the industry have failed, due to independent media platforms, so they have moved to intimidation and threats of violence. Sad!

Del Arroz, a comic book fan, senses a reckoning coming.

The Industry is in trouble. Unlike others they have a distribution network only meant to further Marvel/DC properties. For real change to happen, fans have to support indies.

PJ Media reached out to Richard Meyer, who was happy to talk about being targeted by SJWs. "It's a neo-McCarthyism situation, the industry is being destroyed," he said. "They are killing it. They've turned an industry into a community which doesn't have to have sales or success. It's a vicious pogrom and excommunication of anyone right of the extreme far left."

Meyer has been accused of transphobia for calling out the questionable elevation of a transgendered comic author, Magdalene Visaggio, who seemed to come out of nowhere with no history or accomplishments in the industry. Visaggio rose quickly for a beginner, leading some, like Meyer, to believe he was hired for diversity instead of skill. Visaggio won a new talent workshop at DC Comics that put him in a position to be mentored by the top comic writers in the industry even though he appeared not to like or understand DC characters like Batman.

He also appears a little unstable, threatening "cis" people with violence on social media.

But there isn't any real rush to buy Visaggio's transgendered comic book Kim & Kim, ranked #373 in the July sales ratings.

Meyer believes he is being targeted for, among other things, daring to criticize Visaggio. "You can't say anything about the diversity hires because they're magical," he explained. "One of the successes of my channel is that I say what other people are thinking. There's about 100,000 fans out there waiting to come back. America only has a few unique institutions and one of them, comic books, is literally being murdered. Normal comic pros have been chased away and it is now a weird club for people with personality disorders."

Meyer seems to have it right. Lately another far lefty who writes GI Joe (of all things), Aubrey Sitterson, caused a stir on 9/11 for this ridiculous tweet.

Oh good, it's Self-Centered National Tragedy Remembrance from People Who Weren't Even Anywhere Near New York City Day.

— aubrey??sitterson (@aubreysitterson) September 11, 2017

Meyer tried hiding his identity (or at least his workplace) online to avoid the doxing and swatting the left is so fond of. People who speak critically of the industry, like MundaneMatt, have been swatted for their audacity to speak out. Meyers' enemies tried calling what they thought was his employer, but they failed to find it. They did, however, reveal his real name with the intention of targeted harassment as revealed in the secret Facebook posting.

In a bizarre twist of events, Meyer was searching for a sold-out comic book earlier in the summer called Mr. Miracle when he was told that a downtown store in Charlottesville had it. He went to buy it and got caught in the Charlottesville protests that turned violent. He reported from the scene and an SJW informant and amateur comic writer, Heather Antos, started spreading the rumor that he was a member of the KKK. Girls like Antos can't stand Meyer because he has no qualms about calling them "fake geek girls."

"The industry is hiring completely unqualified people based on diversity," Meyers said "Heather Antos didn't know when her own book came out. They don't do basic editing. The spelling is atrocious and the term 'fake geek girl' really upsets them because it's true. They aren't real fans. They know nothing about the characters or their stories and their whole purpose is to rewrite them in their own image — strident, angry, anti-male, transgendered — until they are unrecognizable."

Meyer believes that the shift from the classic comics to the ultra-political began around 2015 — and fans have had enough.

"'Black Panther and the Crew' was a segregationist comic about white genocide!" he told PJM. "Who are they writing these comics for?" he asked.

"Crest sells toothpaste to murderers on death row because it's a business. They'll sell to anybody," he continued. "The comic industry doesn't seem to want their fans to buy their product unless they are in the extreme left wing. Comic book shops are full of basically middle-aged white guys and Marvel seemed to be embarrassed of them and so they threw them away for the rainbow hair crowd that doesn't actually read comic books."

Carol Danvers, or Captain Marvel, is becoming transgendered. Comic book fans have taken to calling her "Carl Manvers."

"We're watching her boobs disappear in every issue," said Meyers. "Marvel has killed all the heterosexual romances in the stories and replaced them with gay relationships. Gay relationships are depicted as idyllic and heterosexual romances are shown as problematic. Comic book shops are suffering because they can't sell these books. No one wants them."

As for the kerfuffle with Mark Waid, Meyer won't comment other than to say they have not spoken despite Waid's claim of wanting to "work it out." Waid offered a half-hearted apology on Facebook for sounding like he was advocating violence or trying to have Meyer banned from Comic-Con after facing criticism for his public remarks. He now claims he only wanted to "talk." PJ Media got Meyer on the phone in less than an hour, so if talking is really what Waid wanted to do, he could have done it already.

There is a disturbing and entirely too frequent trend of conservative people being harassed, intimidated or banned from speaking, protesting and now just trying to enjoy a comic book convention. Somehow the left has taken over every institution in America from libraries to comic books and we let it happen. The question now is, how do we undo it?

Here is the link to the article if you feel the need to see it.

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2017/09/21/secret-facebook-page-reveals-marvel-dc-comics-writers-conspiring-harass-comic-con-conservatives/

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#2 Edited by infantfinite128 (6321 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't support Marvel anymore. They've had some great stuff like Old Man Logan, and Garth Ennis Punisher and Fury Max, but Marvel's been pretty dead to me since One More Day. I just talk about my love for past stuff here. It's bad all over the place and SJW have infected all media. Thankfully, DC isn't anywhere near as bad as Marvel.

I was just looking at this one:

https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2017/09/exit-right-to-comicgate/

Professional comic creators organize group to discuss stalking and assaulting former marine critic at convention.

Comics have a long tradition in American entertainment. Generations of children and adults share a cultural touchstone with characters like Captain America, Spider-Man, the X-Men, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. There is a reason many customers remain loyal despite companies which (contrary to logic in a capitalist society) regularly demean and insult them.

For the medium to evolve is only natural. However, like the gaming community before it comics have become positively infested with regressives who delight in tearing apart American icons while alienating fans with propaganda and abuse. They’re corrupt, they’re bleeding cash, and they are thoroughly unpleasant.

On September 18th in a private, heavily politicized facebook group for comic professionals the following exchange took place:

Online, the target of this group veteran Richard Meyer goes by Diversity & Comics (D&C), a youtube channel where he critiques the Marxist drivel currently overwhelming the medium. D&C caught wind of the activities of this facebook group on September 21st, when he made a video of his own in response where audiences can read the exchange.

Members of the group who actively endorsed violence and stalking toward D&C include writers B. Clay Moore and Taylor Esposito. Following the conversation, on September 20thEisner Award-winning writer Mark Waid posted the following on his own public facebook:

In fairness to Waid, he was open about making a lengthy edit (which I recommend reading for transparency’s sake) during his attempt to backpedal and appear less threatening. However, by then a very interesting array of voices had already chimed in for the comments section. Among these were senior editor Tom Brevoort as well as IDW, Marvel, and DC Comics writer Magdalene Frances, whose real name is Magdalene “Bedbugs” Visaggio.

Brevoort went a little like this:

Keep in mind that as senior editor, Brevoort is Mark Waid’s boss. By asking Waid specifically what the plan was, he implied that Waid himself is the ringleader.

Bedbugs had the following exchange:

For the normal people among us who might miss the terminology, “cis” refers to anyone who is not transgender. Bedbugs is effectively the new, less hygienic Brianna Wu.

Bedbugs also has a habit of engaging in lengthy rants:

Of course liking incitement of violence against police officers on twitter wasn’t enough, so Bedbugs stole a gay man’s tweet to pretend it was her idea in the first place:

Waid though, Waid is very interesting. Our award winner has done his very best to take the moral high ground against that mean, nasty critic who dared object to cultural Marxism.

Just look at how he defended innocent industry professionals from accusations of pedophilia by GamerGate bullies!

Far from ancient history, these tweets come from January 8th of this year.

But who was under fire in the comic industry around January 8th, 2017? Oh, I remember. There was Gerard Jones, who was arrested after being caught with more than 600 files of child pornography. It was reported by Michael Bodley of SFGate on the precise same day as Waid’s tweet.

Isn’t that a funny coincidence!

Waid’s own work for Marvel features stunning scenes like this one from Champions #2(ongoing and targeted at teens):

If readers are uncertain regarding the size difference given the Hulk’s anatomical oddities, here’s some perspective:

Readers, of course, can make of this what they will.

Now. You may be wondering, why is it that this ragtag bunch of misfits would target D&C specifically? There are plenty of people unhappy about the current state of comic books, and many of them criticizing the regressive agenda. Although comic editors Heather Antos (Marvel) and Susan Auġér (Freelance) both doxed D&C for the crime of daring to laugh at Antos on the internet, there is a bigger reason comic professionals want to intimidate and silence him.

On September 11th and 12th of this year, IDW writer Aubrey Sitterson stirred a fair amount of controversy with the following tweets:

D&C, partly due to this incident and partly over some remarkably gay artwork Sitterson encouraged for popular children’s toy-based title G.I. Joe, called for Sitterson to be fired in a September 12th youtube video. As a fan and a critic expressing frustration mind you, not as a professional. Fast forward to September 14th, when several articles went up in rapid succession from supposedly unrelated comic journalism websites including The Outhousers, The Mary Sue, and Bleeding Cool all leaping to defend Sitterson.

And D&C not only noticed, he dared to make a video talking about how the whole thing smelled suspiciously of collusion.

There is blood in the water, and the comic industry knows it. This is just one facet of the culture war being waged against regressive propaganda in our media. The side of Diversity & Comics is winning. And that absolutely terrifies the establishment professionals of the far-Left.

Featured Image Via Debbie R

Source:

Diversity & Comics (1, 2, 3, 4)

ComiChron

Facebook

Twitter – Bedbugs

Google

Twitter – Sitterson (1, 2)

The Outhousers

The Mary Sue

Bleeding Cool

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#3 Edited by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

@infantfinite128: Thank you for posting that. It's always good to have more than one source.

I hope people go to the milo page because there were relevant images that don't carry over with copy past.

I was lucky enough that the site I used allowed me to drag them over.

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#4 Posted by Dextersinister1 (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people underestimate how bad this problem is on a greater scale. If you look this up it's downplayed.

My answer is not violence but if you see people doing this shame them for their actions

I saw the start of a Jordan Peterson video where the man who organizes event speakers mentioned how when people came on to talk about abortion, gender pronouns, etc they would go off without a hitch but if a conservative speaker was being booked there would always be threats and complaints.

The lesson to be learned from the left is it seems it's intolerance that wins.

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#5 Posted by bflynn316 (2667 posts) - - Show Bio

Politics doesn't belong in Gen. Discussion. This should be in Off Topic.

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#6 Posted by Battle123axe (9496 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell is this.

This is why I don't but marvel anymore

Make Mine DC

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#7 Edited by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

@bflynn316: It's about comics and the industry which is not Off topic.

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#8 Posted by infantfinite128 (6321 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: You're welcome! I've seen more articles.

I don't take pleasure in it as I'm sure you don't either. I've been a fan for decades, and it's a bummer.

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#9 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

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#10 Posted by bflynn316 (2667 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@bflynn316: It's about comics and the industry which is not Off topic.

I guess, I just come to this site to talk about comics and get away from the real world. Not talk politics like every other site. That's why I never go on Off Topic anymore, it's like 50% politics now.

Anyway on topic, the article seems pretty biased to me and it implies they talked about violence which you can't really see in the screen grab. But then again the comic writers seem pretty biased as well. Checking out the guy's YouTube now, it seems fine and he seems nice enough but I'm not super familiar with it.

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#11 Posted by Yassassin (7798 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care for his videos, but I really don't like this or the precedence it could set.

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#12 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.

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#13 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by bflynn316 (2667 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15 said:

I don't care for his videos, but I really don't like this or the precedence it could set.

Actually I was just watching some of his videos and they're ok. I was expecting them to be insanely far right and maybe even transphobic or sexist or something and they're pretty level headed. I guess the SJWs at Marvel really are pretty insane. And socially I tend to have fairly left leanings, I have trans friends and consider myself to be a feminist and everything. But this channel seems fine and actually a little funny.

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#15 Posted by bflynn316 (2667 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

Here's the guy in question. You can see he's super reasonable for someone who's under so much fire by strangers for no apparent reason.

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#16 Posted by SpitfirePanda (2573 posts) - - Show Bio

I like D&C, though I don't always agree with him. I like a lot of art that he tends to roast, and some of the stories he's hated I've thought sounded good. I'm going to get the Ms. Marvel Generations next week because it actually sounds like a story I'd enjoy despite some plot points that may or may not be political propaganda. That said, Disney needs to fire the majority of the Marvel staff and start over. Give the comics a full reboot and hire some good, non-political writers to do it. Get rid of the new characters and return to the status quo.

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#17 Posted by WastelandMan (8834 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel really needs a major upheaval in its comic staff.

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#18 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (7157 posts) - - Show Bio

I really REALLY freaking hate the turn SJW. Anyway the only time I would see that diversity can become an issue is when it takes precedence over good quality storytelling. Anyway here's the thing that I don't agree with Meyer about, for years even decades now comic book characters have been rewritten in whatever image/view the writer has of them since it's inception let's be real here. That's why there are so many retcons and reboots. Perfect example of this is Dan Jurgen's current run on Action Comics. Dan has been hellbent on reestablishing stuff he did on past runs while getting rid of new 52 elements going as far as merging both Supermen's timelines for no real reason which is a stupid move i still think. And comics have always been ultra political, it didn't just start in 2015

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#19 Posted by force_echo (1283 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read the entire thing, because it's super long and boring, but this entire drama has gone on way too long. What genuine comic fan actually cares about any of this? Read comics that are good, don't read ones that are bad. What does "SJW pandering" have to do with anything? Comic fans massively overreact to anything and everything. Who cares if they make Captain America black for a bit? Or Thor a girl for a bit? If the stories are good, then cool. If they're not, don't worry, no change in comics is permanent anyway.

The anti-PC crowd honestly overreacts just as much as the SJW crowd as far as I can tell. Who cares if they add new characters that are geared towards minorities or trans-people or whatever? You don't have to read them, and they might draw in new readers from different backgrounds. I don't understand why this is some big debate among the comic fandom.

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#20 Posted by Thekillerklok (10199 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty disgusting.

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#21 Edited by Spambot (9506 posts) - - Show Bio

It does feel like Marvel and maybe to some degree dc has become an echo chamber when it comes to the political agenda the writers want to convey via the titles they write. They believe they are 100% in the right for trying to intertwine their own political views into the comics they write and that is as much a reason for them wanting to write them as anything else. Sad reality for comic fans nowadays. Marvel will pretty soon need to make a choice between continuing to sponsor these kinds of writers or else risk losing a whole generation or two of fans.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Sigh... Marvel comics have gone that low?

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#23 Posted by Thekillerklok (10199 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read the entire thing, because it's super long and boring, but this entire drama has gone on way too long. What genuine comic fan actually cares about any of this? Read comics that are good, don't read ones that are bad. What does "SJW pandering" have to do with anything? Comic fans massively overreact to anything and everything. Who cares if they make Captain America black for a bit? Or Thor a girl for a bit? If the stories are good, then cool. If they're not, don't worry, no change in comics is permanent anyway.

The anti-PC crowd honestly overreacts just as much as the SJW crowd as far as I can tell. Who cares if they add new characters that are geared towards minorities or trans-people or whatever? You don't have to read them, and they might draw in new readers from different backgrounds. I don't understand why this is some big debate among the comic fandom.

maybe instead of typing out a couple paragraphs just quickly glance at the actually topic at hand.

I think if you do you might find out there is some egg on your face.

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#24 Posted by force_echo (1283 posts) - - Show Bio

@force_echo said:

I didn't read the entire thing, because it's super long and boring, but this entire drama has gone on way too long. What genuine comic fan actually cares about any of this? Read comics that are good, don't read ones that are bad. What does "SJW pandering" have to do with anything? Comic fans massively overreact to anything and everything. Who cares if they make Captain America black for a bit? Or Thor a girl for a bit? If the stories are good, then cool. If they're not, don't worry, no change in comics is permanent anyway.

The anti-PC crowd honestly overreacts just as much as the SJW crowd as far as I can tell. Who cares if they add new characters that are geared towards minorities or trans-people or whatever? You don't have to read them, and they might draw in new readers from different backgrounds. I don't understand why this is some big debate among the comic fandom.

maybe instead of typing out a couple paragraphs just quickly glance at the actually topic at hand.

I think if you do you might find out there is some egg on your face.

Well the topic at hand just happens to be the most recent incident in a debate that has been going for a long time. As far as the actual incident goes- I repeat- who cares? It's literally high school level drama. Some comic writers don't like some other guy because he doesn't like them, who cares? I really doubt any of them will actually hurt each other.

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#25 Posted by entropy_aegis (20948 posts) - - Show Bio

Its become more of an industry wide problem than just a Marvel problem but that said Marvel has given its creators a wide berth when it comes to SJW non sense both in their books and on social media. Nick Spencer's idiocy alone has made me decide not to want to touch anything he ever writes. Waid and Rivera are obnoxious trolls. Funny thing is that Marvel's biggest Black character is suffering from this as well. Coates and his SJW driven agenda has turned T'Challa in to crappy character.

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#26 Edited by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Glad you posted this. The struggle between SJW's and comic fans who just want good stories is more important than many people realize. I listen to D&C all the time, he has conservative leanings but he isnt an alt-right super conservative like these marvel writers and sell-out websites try to paint him out to be. D&C is just like any other comic fan who loves comics and wants good stories, the only difference is that he is a critic whose youtube channel has been growing exponentially recently and thus the SJW's in the comics industry feel threatened by his influence.

I urge everybody to check out at least a few of D&C's videos. He is someone who truly cares for the medium and has experience in it himself, which makes his videos even better as he has a lot of good insight into the industry. You may not agree with him on everything (i actually disagreed with his review of a Jane-Thor comics art), but thats to be expected, he is a critic and an honest one at that. SJW writers/editors/ect (not just from marvel, but throughout the industry) want to harass and shut down a good honest man who actually loves comics. They are scared of him because unlike them, D&C is real. They are scared because he is giving a voice to all the people out there who are sick and tired of getting force fed the SJW tripe, who want quality and fun to be revived in their favorite art form.

Whats happening here isnt funny, its very serious. A man is being targeted for ruin and that is just the tip of the iceberg. These people wont stop until everything good in this world is twisted, until every art form is bent to their agenda and every form of entertainment is a podium for them to preach down from. We need to give this guy support and fight back against these people, with our wallets as well as our voices. These SJW comic "pros" are pathetic people, they are the exact opposite of thick skinned, posting youtube comments, twitter comments, articles or even memes makes a difference.

If these people think mild mannered, measured, thoughtful comic reviews constitutes harassment, then i wonder what they would think if the comics community banded together in real protest.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79 (12104 posts) - - Show Bio

Geez this is pathetic

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#28 Posted by destinyman75 (15743 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah they go to far. I see the need for stories which aren't going well do I get called left for my views? Everyone has the right to speak there opinions but organization against this guy is laughable and only hurts there own cause...but I'm still make mine marvel like today would be a good day to start hint

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#29 Posted by Charan_ (1400 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15 said:

I don't care for his videos, but I really don't like this or the precedence it could set.

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#30 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

@force_echo:

What genuine comic fan actually cares about any of this? Read comics that are good, don't read ones that are bad.

So we shouldnt care that the comics we grew up with, that the entire marvel comics universe, is being destroyed?

What does "SJW pandering" have to do with anything?

Everything! The MS Marvel generations comic was a story about kamalah and danvers talking to a magazine company about diversity and what women want, does that sound like a comic to you, let alone what an event comic should be? SJW pandering is ruining marvel comics. Correction, it has already ruined them.

Comic fans massively overreact to anything and everything.

Its not overreaction, its simple reaction. The editors and writers at marvel demonize most of their fanbase, calling us nazis and scum just because we dont want to be told that we are devils for liking hot super heroins or wanting to read a comic with the real Thor.

Who cares if they make Captain America black for a bit? Or Thor a girl for a bit? If the stories are good, then cool. If they're not, don't worry, no change in comics is permanent anyway.

I agree with what your saying except for one thing, this change WILL BE PERMANENT if we dont stand up against it. These writers and editors refuse to take any criticism whatsoever, they hire people based solely on agenda and virtue signaling and they demonize their fanbase. If this trend continues there will be no going back.

Who cares if they add new characters that are geared towards minorities or trans-people or whatever? You don't have to read them,

But thats the thing, we want to read Marvel again. We want the house of ideas to thrive. If the comics stay bad we wont buy them and if we dont buy them marvel comics will go bankrupt and die.

they might draw in new readers from different backgrounds.

Except they arent. Other than Jane Thor books (which only sell ok because people buy them to see if the real thor is coming back) all the other SJW ridden books are selling at or very close to cancellation numbers! Marvel overlooked several things when they went full reta... SJW:

  • Their fanbase was made up of mostly white males.
  • Minorities, for the most part, dont buy much comics.
  • Most male minorities like good stories and hot women.
  • Most females who buy comics like (you guessed it) good stories and strong hot heroes.
  • Kids who buy comics want to read about the heroes they have seen in the movies, or the ones their dad told them about reading, or the ones they see in the cartoons.
  • Nobody wants an agenda shoved down their throat when they pick up a marvel comic.

SJW Marvel was doomed to failiure from the start. They lost most of their white male demographic by demonizing them and writing awful agenda filled stories, they lose their women fans because of the horrible writing and turning all the male heroes into wimps, they lose the kid audience because the kids dont want to read about the lame characters and they lose they real minority fans because of the horrible, stereotypical and agenda filled writing.

All marvel now subsists on is the ever fickle SJW crowd who dont actually care about comics, wont spend the time to buy and read a full arc and will jump ship to join the latest fad. Marvel has attempted suicide and it is rapidly losing blood.

I don't understand why this is some big debate among the comic fandom.

You really should. Go do some research, maybe watch a couple of D&C's videos.

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#31 Posted by StaticSpeedster (2816 posts) - - Show Bio

lol this is a mess. I mean we get it you SJW and trans people are around but no need to go shuving this down people's throats.

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#33 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman:

I think you've also forgot the biggest criticism about his post. If he had taken just a bit of time to read the post that most of what he said doesn't even address the topic. This is about comic creators Facebook group supposedly harassing some dude because they don't like his criticism and leanings. His post completely ignores it and goes on a rant about something else. No matter what side of the spectrum you're on you should be against those who do things like this.

And no this isn't some high school drama like he said in his other post. Harassment especially something that calls for physical violence isn't a so what, who cares situation. The comparison is idiotic and the downplay of the implications of this is smh bad.

Agreed. It doesn't matter if you hate or love what is happening in marvels comics, you should still be fully opposed to this despicable behavior.

Also, its people like this who don't care to see whats right in front of them that pave the way for cultural destruction. Every true comic fan, every person who grew up with comics, should take sides on this matter.

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#34 Posted by entropy_aegis (20948 posts) - - Show Bio

I for one cant believe there's a comic book writer out there who thinks Batman beats up poor people. Cause Court of Owls, the al Ghuls/LOA, Hush, Penguin, Black Mask, Bane, Joker,Falcone/various crime families etc are clearly living below the poverty line LMAO. Even the ones that aren't crime lords are mad scientists like Hugo Strange, Scarecrow, Ivy, Mad Hatter, Mr Freeze etc so money doesn't even factor here.

The only prominent lower class villains that I can think of are Black Spider and Firefly. Even Killer Croc debuted as an ambitious crime lord, Zsasz was filthy rich before becoming a serial killer, Deadshot too came from a wealthy family, the latter is also one of the most expensive hitmen out there.

I hope Snyder taught that writer some serious lessons otherwise if said writer says something along those lines again then I'll blame DC and Scott Snyder for it.

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#35 Edited by force_echo (1283 posts) - - Show Bio

So we shouldnt care that the comics we grew up with, that the entire marvel comics universe, is being destroyed?

Lol, the entire Marvel Universe is being destroyed? Overreact much? Yeah, readership is down, but it's down all around, "SJW" titles or otherwise. Print media in general isn't is popular as it once was. It has nothing to do with SJW pandering. It has to do with technology and easier access to other competitive entertainment sources.

Everything! The MS Marvel generations comic was a story about kamalah and danvers talking to a magazine company about diversity and what women want, does that sound like a comic to you, let alone what an event comic should be? SJW pandering is ruining marvel comics. Correction, it has already ruined them.

Kamalah Ms. Marvel is actually a pretty decent run. If you put aside the fact that she's muslim/brown and actually read comics for the, you know, story and characters, maybe you would actually enjoy them? Just a thought.

Its not overreaction, its simple reaction. The editors and writers at marvel demonize most of their fanbase, calling us nazis and scum just because we dont want to be told that we are devils for liking hot super heroins or wanting to read a comic with the real Thor.

Speak for yourself. I don't read comics for "hot super heroins". That may be a reason for why you read comics (although if that's true it's a pretty dumb reason) but don't act like you're speaking for all comic fans, especially the ones who aren't under the age of 14. And it's not like they're making Wonder Woman a fat lady or something, I don't really understand where the outrage is coming from.

I agree with what your saying except for one thing, this change WILL BE PERMANENT if we dont stand up against it. These writers and editors refuse to take any criticism whatsoever, they hire people based solely on agenda and virtue signaling and they demonize their fanbase. If this trend continues there will be no going back.

No, none of these changes will ever be permanent. If you think they will, you haven't been reading comics for the past 20-30 years. They change the formula every now and again to try something new, it always goes back to the status quo. Steve Rogers will always eventually be Captain America.

But thats the thing, we want to read Marvel again. We want the house of ideas to thrive. If the comics stay bad we wont buy them and if we dont buy them marvel comics will go bankrupt and die.

What are you talking about? If people don't like the change, they will change it back. Comics are a business, they appeal to whatever gets them the most readers. It's not like they're just going to let their business die just to push some political agenda down your throat, that's not how businesses work.

Except they arent. Other than Jane Thor books (which only sell ok because people buy them to see if the real thor is coming back) all the other SJW ridden books are selling at or very close to cancellation numbers! Marvel overlooked several things when they went full reta... SJW:

Yeah, that might just be because they're bad stories, and it has nothing to do with the race/sex of the characters. Also, saying that just because comic readers have been historically exclusively white males doesn't mean that it wall always be like that, that's a logical fallacy. Maybe it is that way BECAUSE there haven't historically been many titles featuring people of color/women. Correlation =/= causation. And again, I doubt you have the authority to speak on behalf of comic readers everywhere.

You really should. Go do some research, maybe watch a couple of D&C's videos.

Yeah, sounds like a bunch of unproductive whining to me. I'd rather spend my time doing literally anything else- including actually reading comics.

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#36 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

@force_echo:

Lol, the entire Marvel Universe is being destroyed? Overreact much? Yeah, readership is down, but it's down all around, "SJW" titles or otherwise. Print media in general isn't is popular as it once was. It has nothing to do with SJW pandering. It has to do with technology and easier access to other competitive entertainment sources.

I acknowledge it is down somewhat all around, but marvel is absolutely abysmal and it is because of the SJW pandering. Compare DC to Marvel, look how much better DC is doing and tell me their is no correlation between DC doing good because of their focus on good stories and Marvel doing horrible because of SJW propaganda!

Kamalah Ms. Marvel is actually a pretty decent run. If you put aside the fact that she's muslim/brown and actually read comics for the, you know, story and characters, maybe you would actually enjoy them? Just a thought.

Firstly, i mentioned the generations comic as an example of marvel's social justice, liberal propoganda, joyless comics. I did not mention kamalah's own run outside of legacy, dont put words in my mouth.

Secondly, its just another comic with a minority character whining about oppression. Ive seen it get reviewed, ive seen what it says and no, im not going to give SJW marvel money for writing liberal sermons. If you like your heroes/heroins as liberal stereotypes who demonize a vast part of the population, thats your business.

Speak for yourself. I don't read comics for "hot super heroins".

Once again your putting words in my mouth that i never said. I said that i dont like being demonized for liking hot super heroins in my comics, which i am as nowadays its "sexist" to portray women as anything but She-Males.

And it's not like they're making Wonder Woman a fat lady or something,

Thank God they havent yet, but poor miss marvel wasnt so lucky... or she hulk... or squirrel girl...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  1. Is that Carol Danvers or flat man?
  2. Look! Its She-male Hulk!
  3. What in the... how does this artist have a job?

I don't really understand where the outrage is coming from.

You dont understand how people could be upset that all the beautiful women in comics are getting turned into ugly, man hating, feminazis?

No, none of these changes will ever be permanent. If you think they will, you haven't been reading comics for the past 20-30 years. They change the formula every now and again to try something new, it always goes back to the status quo. Steve Rogers will always eventually be Captain America.

Are you trying your hardest to not let the point sink in?

It doesnt matter if steve rodgers becomes captain america again! If Marvel continues down this path it will become an SJW liberal podium permanently. If the marvel staff are left alone like this it wont matter if its steve rodgers, sam wilson or bucky, all of them will have horrible stories created for no other reason but to further an agenda. Look at the state of marvel right now, go check out the writers/editors social networks and try to tell me with a straight face that everything will easily slide back to normal. Its not going to happen, they will need to be dragged out kicking and screaming before they ever go back to the way fans want things to be, after all they believe their fans are a bunch of "fascists/white oppressors/homophobic/islamaphobic monsters".

What are you talking about? If people don't like the change, they will change it back. Comics are a business, they appeal to whatever gets them the most readers. It's not like they're just going to let their business die just to push some political agenda down your throat, that's not how businesses work.

This right here shows just how oblivious you are to the real world right now.

Marvel is tanking, its SJW comics are selling at cancellation levels, its fanbase is leaving in droves and what do they do? They double down. As D&C says, SJW's always double down. In theory any sane person would change their approach if they started losing money and readers, but that isnt the case with marvel and hasnt been for a good while.

Yeah, that might just be because they're bad stories, and it has nothing to do with the race/sex of the characters.

Moving the goal posts again to try and insinuate im racist eh?

The stories at marvel are bad now, in most all instances, because the writers make the stories all about the characters sex/race. Its not the fans who do this, its the writers who make everything about race or sex or religion. Just look at black panther and the crew, a book about a team of heroes who assembles for the sole purpose of being black and stand around saying racist things about whites and Jews. Or take for example Captain marvel's generations comic which just a big liberal sermon about women. It has to do with the race/sex of the character because the writers make it about the race/sex of the character.

Also, saying that just because comic readers have been historically exclusively white males doesn't mean that it wall always be like that, that's a logical fallacy. Maybe it is that way BECAUSE there haven't historically been many titles featuring people of color/women. Correlation =/= causation.

You know whats a logical fallacy? Thinking replacing established characters with "diverse" props then shoving liberal dogma down peoples throats will attract readers when it has never worked and is currently destroying Marvel comics.

The facts speak for themselves, white males are the foundation of the comic industry and no matter how much you pander to liberal minorities they will never replace the fans that you demonize and push away.

Yeah, sounds like a bunch of unproductive whining to me. I'd rather spend my time doing literally anything else- including actually reading comics.

Whats really unproductive is you trying to argue an issue that (a) you know next to nothing about and (b) you dont seem to care about.

Also, why wont you acknowledge that what these comic pros are doing is wrong? No matter your opinion on the state of marvel comics, you should be against harassment.

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#37 Edited by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgardianbrony: Also, why wont you acknowledge that what these comic pros are doing is wrong? No matter your opinion on the state of marvel comics, you should be against harassment.

Because he's against those speaking out so now that we're pointing what many from both sides see as clear crossing the line situation he's trying to distract everyone by talking about something that doesn't focus on it. It's a pretty good and often used tactic.

It's working right now. It's why I deleted my post as to not play his game and allow him to do that. I suggest if you continue to debate that you don't allow him to do that and stick strictly to the topic. No open doors for him.

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#38 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (18175 posts) - - Show Bio

This is disgusting.promoting the harassment/violence of others simply for disagreeing is wrong and childish.

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#39 Posted by ThunderPrince (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

This is disgusting.promoting the harassment/violence of others simply for disagreeing is wrong and childish.

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#40 Posted by ANTHP2000 (30315 posts) - - Show Bio

DC and Marvel are both getting the L lately...

Online
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#41 Posted by Thekillerklok (10199 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

If this is true then it belongs here.

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#42 Edited by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok: damn that shit is messed up if it's true.

Side Note: He says in the video that Gamer Gate won. It had some victories but I don' think it won.

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#43 Posted by Jgames (8331 posts) - - Show Bio

While I do think his videos are crap and are one of the reasons why I hate comic book fans, the other people are not helping. You don't fight fire with fire. So screw both sides.

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#45 Posted by Dernman (26362 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam: Things I learned today. "animu"

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#46 Posted by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, comic fans acting like victims as if they're the ones receiving death threats.

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#47 Posted by TSciallsolle3451 (999 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:
@jgames said:

While I do think his videos are crap and are one of the reasons why I hate comic book fans, the other people are not helping. You don't fight fire with fire. So screw both sides.

get the f off this site and go back to wanking animu then?

Very civil, and acting like comic book fans are the only ones who frequent this site.

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#48 Posted by deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79 (12104 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:
@jgames said:

While I do think his videos are crap and are one of the reasons why I hate comic book fans, the other people are not helping. You don't fight fire with fire. So screw both sides.

get the f off this site and go back to wanking animu then?

Very civil, and acting like comic book fans are the only ones who frequent this site.

Thanks sport

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#49 Posted by StormShadow_X (17427 posts) - - Show Bio

There had to be a better site than Facebook

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#50 Posted by weatherwitch21 (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgardianbrony:Ok here I go. I'm trying to understand so sjw marvel is marvel writing stories about political stuff and race and gender. Now I've heard things about this from d&c I like to point out that d&ca has said some things that have rubbed me the wrong way so I dont follow his channel and dont care for him but I think him getting harassed and threatened is too much and it is not ok. So the problem I have is changing a character with all that history is propaganda and people like you don't want them and want things to be the way they used to be. Like girl thor and captain marvel having boobs and stuff like that and it is demonizing white men across the board. I agree some points with @force_echo in how some of it sounds like people over complaining about certain things not everything but certain things. Now me myself I'm a comic book fan but I'm mostly an x-men fan majority of what I read and buy but from what it sounds like to me is while I hear some of these stories are bad and the art is awful that you seem to not like anything liberal or about oppression or anything of that nature and my question is what is bothering you in marvel comics to be specific and also you dont think there should some comic that talks about or reflects what is happening in minority and lgbtq communities I just need to know cause that general statement of minority fans wont replace white fans is a little weird to me so I just want to know.