Sandman (Neil Gaiman) or Lucifer (Mike Carey): which comic did you like better?

Title

Sandman.

So Hard to pick but Sandman edges it for me not by much though.

Lucifer by Mike Carey is boring. There are a few interesting plot points and some cool looking scenes, but the overall story of Lucifer is kind of dry. The character designs are pretty cool though.

Sandman is just like a better comic book series altogether.

Sandman books are my favorite series of all time. Lucifer would probably be in my top 5 as well. Both really top notch.

@_logos_: Lucifer definitely isn't boring, at least not for me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to read it 4 times without getting bored. I felt like Mike Carey was orgasmining every time Lucifer appeared in the pages. Reading the comic was literally like masturbating to the character of Lucifer. Yet the comic isn't really biased towards Lucifer. He had his fails, he spent most of the time being weakened, defeated and humiliated against many of the major enemies he fought. But with his will and wits he overcomes all the struggles and ultimately achieves the freedom he wanted.

Lucifer is supposed to the very cunning and manipulative, and while they do display that for the most part, it's done in poor fashion. Whenever Lucifer is the one doing the manipulating it always feels like they dumb down the enemies he's plotting against or the enemies up against just never were really that smart to begin with. So whenever Lucifer faced situations where he had to use his intellect it didn't really seem like much of a struggle or conflict. Even when he is the one suffering it didn't feel like the stakes were really there. We barely could sympathize with a character as powerful as him, and what made it worse was he didn't have any fears or didn't worry about anything. Most of the time when he's faced in situations where he is losing his reaction is always anger and wrath, and it makes him across as arrogant most of the time. This would be something okay, if it wasn't for the fact that Lucifer never learns humility as a character. They wanted make Lucifer so powerful of an entity that the essential emotions that make up all kinds of characters aren't applicable to Lucifer. This is an okay choice to make I guess, but it doesn't exactly make for good writing.

The only characters that are remotely interesting in the series are Lucifer and Mazikeen. Everyone else is pretty much lame. Even Michael who's supposed to be Lucifer's equal in raw power has no depth to his character, and he can't match Lucifer in wits it seems. It would've been so much cooler if Michael is the more obedient son to god or god's ancient rules and is smart in his own way while Lucifer was the defiant son and his mind was more manipulative in contrast. I say this only because the origins and roles of these two characters was one of the best things about this series, and the war in heaven lore sounded pretty cool, but for some reason they placed the story outside of such a storyline. Instead the series felt more like Lucifer dancing throughout heaven, hell, and other gods' creations (including his own). Then there was the Elaine Belloc story line that just made me go "wtf am I reading" when it decided she needed to be god 2.0 and... Well I think I've ranted enough at this point, but point being that Lucifer is a rather odd series with odd narrative choices. At times it just felt rather boring.

Sandman, but both are top tier.

@_logos_:

@_logos_: Lucifer is supposed to the very cunning and manipulative, and while they do display that for the most part, it's done in poor fashion. Whenever Lucifer is the one doing the manipulating it always feels like they dumb down the enemies he's plotting against or the enemies up against just never were really that smart to begin with. So whenever Lucifer faced situations where he had to use his intellect it didn't really seem like much of a struggle or conflict.

Can you give me an example?

Most of the time when he's faced in situations where he is losing his reaction is always anger and wrath, and it makes him across as arrogant most of the time. This would be something okay, if it wasn't for the fact that Lucifer never learns humility as a character. They wanted make Lucifer so powerful of an entity that the essential emotions that make up all kinds of characters aren't applicable to Lucifer. This is an okay choice to make I guess, but it doesn't exactly make for good writing.

It's not about power. Lucifer is the embodiment of will. fear and hesitation and emotions like that don't go well with what he represents. Just like in the end of of the story, when Lucifer leaves creation because the only way for him to be free of everything was where there was nothing. He left creation behind him and went to the void, rejected God's offer and continued on his way where he was going to be alone for all eternity, and nothing even made him hesitate. That's what Lucifer is about. That's why I also think the writer of the 2016 didn't understand what Lucifer was about. In this series Lucifer shows emotions and was in love with Mazikeen and the series turned out to be an abomination. Lucifer going back from the void was wrong from the beginning.

The only characters that are remotely interesting in the series are Lucifer and Mazikeen. Everyone else is pretty much lame. Even Michael who's supposed to be Lucifer's equal in raw power has no depth to his character, and he can't match Lucifer in wits it seems. It would've been so much cooler if Michael is the more obedient son to god or god's ancient rules and is smart in his own way while Lucifer was the defiant son and his mind was more manipulative in contrast.

I agree with everything you said. well, Lucifer outshined the other characters by far. Except for Michael. Michael is actually the most relateable one between all the angels including Lucifer. In the the beginning when he first appeared, Michael was perfect. He was kind and forgiving and had no hatred for anyone, even Lucifer. That's when he believed that he was the Good boy and his father's favorite between the two of them. But as the story proceeds, he starts doubting God's judgements, when he discovers that God was going to let Elaine die, and make him watch it happen, in his plan to destroy Lucifer. That leads Michael to defy him to save Elaine. And later on he discovers that God was actually planning to make him defiant all along. And that he preferred Lucifer's example over his. That the rebellion was the point of it all. That his life work amounted to nothing. Michael becomes the complete opposite of what he was in the beginning of the story. You can tell, he becomes jealous of Lucifer, constantly threatening to kill him for little to no reason, he becomes angry with God, and he actually kills innocents. Two of the angels who were just doing their job were annihilated and was ready to destroy the rest of the host. He abandons his duties and was going to let the titans do as they like. He interfered in the end only when Lucifer reminded him of his daughter. Michael in the end wasn't really as perfect as he was trying to look, in the end he only cared about his daughter and his father's view on him.

Then there was the Elaine Belloc story line that just made me go "wtf am I reading" when it decided she needed to be god 2.0

That's a good writing in my opinion. We don't understand our parents until we actually become parents ourselves. Then we become our parents 2.0. We don't understand many of the decisions the world leaders make until we're actually in their positions, then we become another copy of them. But I agree that it was rushed and executed poorly.

@happylife1996:

Can you give me an example?

Lucifer's battles against Amenadiel and his very first battle against the Shinto Pantheon. Both seemed kind of ridiculous. I also think there was a battle between him and some Nordic Gods, but I can't recall if that was bad or not.

It's not about power. Lucifer is the embodiment of will. fear and hesitation and emotions like that don't go well with what he represents. Just like in the end of of the story, when Lucifer leaves creation because the only way for him to be free of everything was where there was nothing. He left creation behind him and went to the void, rejected God's offer and continued on his way where he was going to be alone for all eternity, and nothing even made him hesitate. That's what Lucifer is about. That's why I also think the writer of the 2016 didn't understand what Lucifer was about. In this series Lucifer shows emotions and was in love with Mazikeen and the series turned out to be an abomination. Lucifer going back from the void was wrong from the beginning.

Agreed Lucifer 2016 was terrible due to a lack of consistency and a bland story overall. The reason I critique the original series, however, is because what Lucifer's final outcome was didn't make for great story telling. It fell in line with the rest of the story, but it just wasn't my taste.

I agree with everything you said. well, Lucifer outshined the other characters by far. Except for Michael. Michael is actually the most relateable one between all the angels including Lucifer. In the the beginning when he first appeared, Michael was perfect. He was kind and forgiving and had no hatred for anyone, even Lucifer. That's when he believed that he was the Good boy and his father's favorite between the two of them. But as the story proceeds, he starts doubting God's judgements, when he discovers that God was going to let Elaine die, and make him watch it happen, in his plan to destroy Lucifer. That leads Michael to defy him to save Elaine. And later on he discovers that God was actually planning to make him defiant all along. And that he preferred Lucifer's example over his. That the rebellion was the point of it all. That his life work amounted to nothing. Michael becomes the complete opposite of what he was in the beginning of the story. You can tell, he becomes jealous of Lucifer, constantly threatening to kill him for little to no reason, he becomes angry with God, and he actually kills innocents. Two of the angels who were just doing their job were annihilated and was ready to destroy the rest of the host. He abandons his duties and was going to let the titans do as they like. He interfered in the end only when Lucifer reminded him of his daughter. Michael in the end wasn't really as perfect as he was trying to look, in the end he only cared about his daughter and his father's view on him.

I guess Michael was a little more than I made him out to be. Yeah, looking back he's not as bland as he feels in memory. Though I still think he could've been more badass lol.

That's a good writing in my opinion. We don't understand our parents until we actually become parents ourselves. Then we become our parents 2.0. We don't understand many of the decisions the world leaders make until we're actually in their positions, then we become another copy of them. But I agree that it was rushed and executed poorly.

Elaine's story really didn't drive in this lesson at all. Even if it was supposed to represent it, the vagueness of what it's like to become god 2.0 made Elaine completely unrelatable. It also just seems like a strange lesson to do with the character of Elaine Belloc by making her so powerful. I actually didn't really see the point of her existing other than to be apart of Michael's story.