Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)?
Rip-off or Coincidence?
" coincidence "It's almost exactly the same.Even when they made it so Batman isn't actually dead.Unless Marvel thought of that when they first killed him they stole DC's idea but DC did it first with the death and the battle of the Cowl of their top street leveler.The Battle of the Cowl happened in Marvel they just didn't make an event out of it.
" @Vance Astro said:1.Both Batman and Captain America were killed with weapons\attacks that didn't actually kill them but sent their consciousness somewhere else.The only difference is Batman is in a parallel dimension and Cap is stuck in the past of his timeline."Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)? "Other than a popular comic character dying and being replaced by his sidekick and then probably coming back how was it the same? "
2.There was a battle for the Cowl in the Marvel U after Cap's death.Even with similar variables.Jason Todd would have been the Punisher of the Cowl Battle.He's dressed as Batman (Cap) yet he doesn't share his same morals and values and he kills people.Like the Punisher.He's also a ruthless fighter and he's not actually wearing the suit that Batman (Cap) wore.He made his own variation.Like the Punisher.The Punisher carried the real suit somewhere else.Then you have Grayson..the sidekick.He was once Robin (Bucky) he went from being the sidekick to being Batman.Same as Bucky.Bucky was the sidekick.He grew up,became Winter Soldier and now he's Cap.They both have the same attitude toward being Cap or Batman as well.They want to do it but at the same time they don't,they have mixed feelings.All the people behind Bat's who felt some sort of way about his death..same as in Fallen Son.Battle For the Cowl and Fallen Son are almost the same book ideal wise.You see all the people close to Cap reacting to his death and the consequences that come with his death itself.Both books often point to the significance of the character.
3.Then you have R.I.P it's sort of like the behind the scenes events that led to Cap's death.Attempts of the Black Glove ultimately led to a far more physically and mentally broken Batman who was ultimately killed by Darksied.And who is the leader of the Black Glove? The Red Skull with a Black Skull,otherwise known as Black Mask.Could it be a coincidence that the man who just became Batman's worst enemy looks exactly like the guy whom from behind the scenes orchestrated the plot that got Cap killed?
" @Vance Astro said:I never said he died in R.I.P...Cap wasn't killed in the comic that made you aware he was being set up (That was in his own comic).He died in Civil War."Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)? "Don't you mean FC? He didn't die in R.I.P.! "
" @Man Without Fear said:Because R.I.P is where the Black Glove really started trying to erase Batman.I'm comparing it to Cap's comics where it's revealed Red Skull is setting Cap up."@Push said:Your referencing R.I.P.? "" @Vance Astro said:I never said he died in R.I.P...""Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)? "Don't you mean FC? He didn't die in R.I.P.! "
" Ah, o.k. gotcha. I don't think RIP it'self is that connected to Cap events, but his death and what's hapenning from there seem to have ALOT of similarities. "I think it is because if you think back to what Cap was doing before he was killed in Civil War it's the same thing.The Red Skull (Black Mask in Batman's Case) was sending all of his goons after Cap.Cap narrowly escaped half those fights..not to mention running from the law.Same as Bat's in R.I.P.The Red Skull had been trying to kill him the whole time.The only difference is in the edn what killed Batman was unrelated and what killed Cap was directly related.
"@Push said:" Ah, o.k. gotcha. I don't think RIP it'self is that connected to Cap events, but his death and what's hapenning from there seem to have ALOT of similarities. "I think it is because if you think back to what Cap was doing before he was killed in Civil War it's the same thing.The Red Skull (Black Mask in Batman's Case) was sending all of his goons after Cap.Cap narrowly escaped half those fights..not to mention running from the law.Same as Bat's in R.I.P.The Red Skull had been trying to kill him the whole time.The only difference is in the edn what killed Batman was unrelated and what killed Cap was directly related."
Yeah, I can agree on that.
I a@Man Without Fear said:
" @Zoom said:i kind of thought of that before.. bout time DC rips off Marvel for a change." @Vance Astro said:1.Both Batman and Captain America were killed with weapons\attacks that didn't actually kill them but sent their consciousness somewhere else.The only difference is Batman is in a parallel dimension and Cap is stuck in the past of his timeline.2.There was a battle for the Cowl in the Marvel U after Cap's death.Even with similar variables.Jason Todd would have been the Punisher of the Cowl Battle.He's dressed as Batman (Cap) yet he doesn't share his same morals and values and he kills people.Like the Punisher.He's also a ruthless fighter and he's not actually wearing the suit that Batman (Cap) wore.He made his own variation.Like the Punisher.The Punisher carried the real suit somewhere else.Then you have Grayson..the sidekick.He was once Robin (Bucky) he went from being the sidekick to being Batman.Same as Bucky.Bucky was the sidekick.He grew up,became Winter Soldier and now he's Cap.They both have the same attitude toward being Cap or Batman as well.They want to do it but at the same time they don't,they have mixed feelings.All the people behind Bat's who felt some sort of way about his death..same as in Fallen Son.Battle For the Cowl and Fallen Son are almost the same book ideal wise.You see all the people close to Cap reacting to his death and the consequences that come with his death itself.Both books often point to the significance of the character.3.Then you have R.I.P it's sort of like the behind the scenes events that led to Cap's death.Attempts of the Black Glove ultimately led to a far more physically and mentally broken Batman who was ultimately killed by Darksied.And who is the leader of the Black Glove? The Red Skull with a Black Skull,otherwise known as Black Mask.Could it be a coincidence that the man who just became Batman's worst enemy looks exactly like the guy whom from behind the scenes orchestrated the plot that got Cap killed? ""Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)? "Other than a popular comic character dying and being replaced by his sidekick and then probably coming back how was it the same? "
- I havn't read it, but Astro City is another good example of similiar story lines. In Astro city the heroes are forced to register with the government and the starts a huge controversy(Civil War) then it turns out the mayor of Astro City is an alien shapeshifter that has been doing all sorts of things secretly without the heroes knowing about it (Secret Invasion). This all happens years befor Marvel's story line.
- Another cool fact is that Bucky came back the same week as Jason Todd.
No one should have to register anything in a free society.
"I a@Man Without Fear said:" @Zoom said:i kind of thought of that before.. bout time DC rips off Marvel for a change."" @Vance Astro said:1.Both Batman and Captain America were killed with weapons\attacks that didn't actually kill them but sent their consciousness somewhere else.The only difference is Batman is in a parallel dimension and Cap is stuck in the past of his timeline.2.There was a battle for the Cowl in the Marvel U after Cap's death.Even with similar variables.Jason Todd would have been the Punisher of the Cowl Battle.He's dressed as Batman (Cap) yet he doesn't share his same morals and values and he kills people.Like the Punisher.He's also a ruthless fighter and he's not actually wearing the suit that Batman (Cap) wore.He made his own variation.Like the Punisher.The Punisher carried the real suit somewhere else.Then you have Grayson..the sidekick.He was once Robin (Bucky) he went from being the sidekick to being Batman.Same as Bucky.Bucky was the sidekick.He grew up,became Winter Soldier and now he's Cap.They both have the same attitude toward being Cap or Batman as well.They want to do it but at the same time they don't,they have mixed feelings.All the people behind Bat's who felt some sort of way about his death..same as in Fallen Son.Battle For the Cowl and Fallen Son are almost the same book ideal wise.You see all the people close to Cap reacting to his death and the consequences that come with his death itself.Both books often point to the significance of the character.3.Then you have R.I.P it's sort of like the behind the scenes events that led to Cap's death.Attempts of the Black Glove ultimately led to a far more physically and mentally broken Batman who was ultimately killed by Darksied.And who is the leader of the Black Glove? The Red Skull with a Black Skull,otherwise known as Black Mask.Could it be a coincidence that the man who just became Batman's worst enemy looks exactly like the guy whom from behind the scenes orchestrated the plot that got Cap killed? ""Why is it that Batman's R.I.P storyline is very similar to that of the conclusion of Civil War (Cap's Death)? "Other than a popular comic character dying and being replaced by his sidekick and then probably coming back how was it the same? "
When did Marvel rip off DC?
"Registration acts (comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaTell that to the people in Stamford.
No one should have to register anything in a free society. "
People need support. Look at Trauma and Constrictor--people who didn't know how to use their powers until the government program helped them.
When did Marvel rip off DC? "Supreme Squadron=JLA
Sentry=Superman
Gladiator=Superman
Daily Bugle=Daily Planet
Moon Knight,Daredevil,Nighthawk=Batman
You need me to keep going?
"@box turtle said:When did Marvel rip off DC? "Supreme Squadron=JLASentry=SupermanGladiator=SupermanDaily Bugle=Daily PlanetMoon Knight,Daredevil,Nighthawk=BatmanYou need me to keep going?"
The JLA has all the major DC heroes--Squadron Supreme doesn't. Anyway, a team of supers isn't exactly the kind of idea that your average two year old cant think up--I dont think they stole the idea, they just both had the idea.
Sentry is a commentary on Superman, not a rip-off. Superman isn't exactly as mentally unstable, and Clark Kent isn't a black, world consuming Void like Bob Reynolds.
Gladiator--ok, he is only an eighth as powerful as Supes, and he never lived on Earth, and he doesn't have an alternate identity.
Daily Bugle/Daily Planet. Ok, once again, having a newspaper in a comic isn't exactly the kind of idea one goes wow! DC must have been pretty smart to think that one up.
As for Moon Knight, I can see how he is similar to Batman--though, once again, Batman is based on Zorro, so its not original anyway. Daredevil on the other hand is absolutely nothing like Batman--a blind lawyer steadfast in the concepts of mercy and justice, as opposed to the dark, much more violent, ruthless Bats.
In short, yes I do need you to keep going.
" @Vance Astro said:Are you kidding me with this? Whenever in comics someone claims that something is a rip-off it means someone else took and idea and put a different spin on it.Nobody copies someone else's idea exactly.That's how you get sued! Now with that said every comparison I named is right on the money.I'm too tired to really break this whole thing down but I will say this."@box turtle said:The JLA has all the major DC heroes--Squadron Supreme doesn't. Anyway, a team of supers isn't exactly the kind of idea that your average two year old cant think up--I dont think they stole the idea, they just both had the idea.Sentry is a commentary on Superman, not a rip-off. Superman isn't exactly as mentally unstable, and Clark Kent isn't a black, world consuming Void like Bob Reynolds.Gladiator--ok, he is only an eighth as powerful as Supes, and he never lived on Earth, and he doesn't have an alternate identity.Daily Bugle/Daily Planet. Ok, once again, having a newspaper in a comic isn't exactly the kind of idea one goes wow! DC must have been pretty smart to think that one up.As for Moon Knight, I can see how he is similar to Batman--though, once again, Batman is based on Zorro, so its not original anyway. Daredevil on the other hand is absolutely nothing like Batman--a blind lawyer steadfast in the concepts of mercy and justice, as opposed to the dark, much more violent, ruthless Bats. In short, yes I do need you to keep going. "When did Marvel rip off DC? "Supreme Squadron=JLASentry=SupermanGladiator=SupermanDaily Bugle=Daily PlanetMoon Knight,Daredevil,Nighthawk=BatmanYou need me to keep going?"
1.Batman isn't darker,more violent or more ruthless than Daredevil
2.Sentry isn't a commentary on anyone.His character design is based on Superman.
3.The JLA being made up of major DC heroes means absolutely nothing.Squadron Supreme copied the character concepts not everything they possibly could.They don't wanna get sued.If Marvel didn't steal the idea then why is almost every JLA member accounted for with a Squadron Supreme counterpart? You can't tell me it's a coincidence this team of people who just have the same powers as all the JLA members were accidentally brought together.
3.Gladiator never living on earth and his power level have nothing to do with Marvel stealing the concept.He is the strongest (physically) in the Imperial Guard,he has the same exact powers as Superman,his costume layout is similar and most importantly his name is Kallark...say that to yourself out loud and tell me that doesn't sound exactly like Clark!
I believe they killed of Batman just to make money.
If Marvel could make tons of cash killing of one of their greatest heroes, why not DC?
"@box turtle said:good points vance but the JLA is just coincidence, squadron supreme may have set the ground rules but the JLA extented onto it to include many many more heros and the reason they brought all of them together had nothing to do with SS it had to do with them wanting to broden readers and make more money, but to each his own" @Vance Astro said:Are you kidding me with this? Whenever in comics someone claims that something is a rip-off it means someone else took and idea and put a different spin on it.Nobody copies someone else's idea exactly.That's how you get sued! Now with that said every comparison I named is right on the money.I'm too tired to really break this whole thing down but I will say this."@box turtle said:The JLA has all the major DC heroes--Squadron Supreme doesn't. Anyway, a team of supers isn't exactly the kind of idea that your average two year old cant think up--I dont think they stole the idea, they just both had the idea.Sentry is a commentary on Superman, not a rip-off. Superman isn't exactly as mentally unstable, and Clark Kent isn't a black, world consuming Void like Bob Reynolds.Gladiator--ok, he is only an eighth as powerful as Supes, and he never lived on Earth, and he doesn't have an alternate identity.Daily Bugle/Daily Planet. Ok, once again, having a newspaper in a comic isn't exactly the kind of idea one goes wow! DC must have been pretty smart to think that one up.As for Moon Knight, I can see how he is similar to Batman--though, once again, Batman is based on Zorro, so its not original anyway. Daredevil on the other hand is absolutely nothing like Batman--a blind lawyer steadfast in the concepts of mercy and justice, as opposed to the dark, much more violent, ruthless Bats. In short, yes I do need you to keep going. "When did Marvel rip off DC? "Supreme Squadron=JLASentry=SupermanGladiator=SupermanDaily Bugle=Daily PlanetMoon Knight,Daredevil,Nighthawk=BatmanYou need me to keep going?"1.Batman isn't darker,more violent or more ruthless than Daredevil2.Sentry isn't a commentary on anyone.His character design is based on Superman.3.The JLA being made up of major DC heroes means absolutely nothing.Squadron Supreme copied the character concepts not everything they possibly could.They don't wanna get sued.If Marvel didn't steal the idea then why is almost every JLA member accounted for with a Squadron Supreme counterpart? You can't tell me it's a coincidence this team of people who just have the same powers as all the JLA members were accidentally brought together.3.Gladiator never living on earth and his power level have nothing to do with Marvel stealing the concept.He is the strongest (physically) in the Imperial Guard,he has the same exact powers as Superman,his costume layout is similar and most importantly his name is Kallark...say that to yourself out loud and tell me that doesn't sound exactly like Clark!"
good points vance but the JLA is just coincidence, squadron supreme may have set the ground rules but the JLA extented onto it to include many many more heros and the reason they brought all of them together had nothing to do with SS it had to do with them wanting to broden readers and make more money, but to each his own "All the characters have almost the same exact powers.The reason that brought them together is of no significance.Again obviously there is going to be SOME things that won't be similar.The concept of the teams itself is not the rip off the fact that every member of the JLA has a counterpart on that team is the rip-off part.It's not a coincidence.That was done on purpose.
"@DC_Marvel_1000 said:good points vance but the JLA is just coincidence, squadron supreme may have set the ground rules but the JLA extented onto it to include many many more heros and the reason they brought all of them together had nothing to do with SS it had to do with them wanting to broden readers and make more money, but to each his own "All the characters have almost the same exact powers.The reason that brought them together is of no significance.Again obviously there is going to be SOME things that won't be similar.The concept of the teams itself is not the rip off the fact that every member of the JLA has a counterpart on that team is the rip-off part.It's not a coincidence.That was done on purpose. "
but does this mean they ment to rip it off, or was it just a good idea they thought since they themselves had never done anything like that
I agree with most of them except Daredevil. Daredevil can be compared to Batman in some aspects, but I don't see much similarity between them.
Moon Knight wasn't made as a street-level archetype, he turned into that later, he was a battler of the supernatural. I actually agree that when it came to him getting his own title, he turned into a Batman-type character. But off the break, he wasn't meant to be.
Gladiator is more of a rip of Superboy from the Legion of Superheroes, most of the Imperial Guard are rips of the Legion.
I think they did rip Marvel, though. Rather hard, too. And their execution wasn't as nice. At least when Marvel takes their stuff, they usually execute it in a more enjoyable way.
" @Vance Astro said:JLA came first..where else did they get the idea from?"@DC_Marvel_1000 said:but does this mean they ment to rip it off, or was it just a good idea they thought since they themselves had never done anything like that "good points vance but the JLA is just coincidence, squadron supreme may have set the ground rules but the JLA extented onto it to include many many more heros and the reason they brought all of them together had nothing to do with SS it had to do with them wanting to broden readers and make more money, but to each his own "All the characters have almost the same exact powers.The reason that brought them together is of no significance.Again obviously there is going to be SOME things that won't be similar.The concept of the teams itself is not the rip off the fact that every member of the JLA has a counterpart on that team is the rip-off part.It's not a coincidence.That was done on purpose. "
"@DC_Marvel_1000 said:i see what your getting at but that does not mean it was a total ripp-off, maybe they thought the idea would be good to market in one go, a rip off would be is lets say they had them join the same way ect ect" @Vance Astro said:JLA came first..where else did they get the idea from? ""@DC_Marvel_1000 said:but does this mean they ment to rip it off, or was it just a good idea they thought since they themselves had never done anything like that "good points vance but the JLA is just coincidence, squadron supreme may have set the ground rules but the JLA extented onto it to include many many more heros and the reason they brought all of them together had nothing to do with SS it had to do with them wanting to broden readers and make more money, but to each his own "All the characters have almost the same exact powers.The reason that brought them together is of no significance.Again obviously there is going to be SOME things that won't be similar.The concept of the teams itself is not the rip off the fact that every member of the JLA has a counterpart on that team is the rip-off part.It's not a coincidence.That was done on purpose. "
i see what your getting at but that does not mean it was a total ripp-off, maybe they thought the idea would be good to market in one go, a rip off would be is lets say they had them join the same way ect ect "Well if it was a total rip off Marvel would have been sued.They took the idea and added different stuff to make it look like a different idea.
"@DC_Marvel_1000 said:i see what your getting at but that does not mean it was a total ripp-off, maybe they thought the idea would be good to market in one go, a rip off would be is lets say they had them join the same way ect ect "Well if it was a total rip off Marvel would have been sued.They took the idea and added different stuff to make it look like a different idea. "
thats true, but then again it's hard to not rip-off DC in someway since they did it all before most
I like how people are trying to act like Daredevil and Moon Knight aren't based on Batman.
"I believe they killed of Batman just to make money.If Marvel could make tons of cash killing of one of their greatest heroes, why not DC?"
DC did when they "killed" Superman. ;)
"Killing any main character is just a ploy to make money. The only thing we can hope for is that it's someone we don't like or a good story comes out of it, which most of the time it doesn't."It's lame at this point because they're never really dead.
Coincidence?..... Rip off?........ Why do you care so much?
More to the point, we have stories to read, thats it. I'n this day in age, what really is original??
Everyone copies/ is influenced by another.
I don't read DC (not because I dislike it, I just don't read DC) so I don't really have any frame of refference, but I am certain this rip of/ coincidence between Marvel and DC is one of many MANY MANY occasions where there are similarities in stories and characters. So just sit back and enjoy what you like reading.
"I like how people are trying to act like Daredevil and Moon Knight aren't based on Batman. "
Moon Knight--maybe. Daredevil--no way. He is not a crazy rich playboy with no powers and lots of violence. He is meant to represent the opposite of organized crime, he is a lawyer, he is blind, he is healthier, and he has powers.
" Coincidence?..... Rip off?........ Why do you care so much? More to the point, we have stories to read, thats it. I'n this day in age, what really is original??Everyone copies/ is influenced by another.I don't read DC (not because I dislike it, I just don't read DC) so I don't really have any frame of refference, but I am certain this rip of/ coincidence between Marvel and DC is one of many MANY MANY occasions where there are similarities in stories and characters. So just sit back and enjoy what you like reading. "1.I DON'T care so much.I made the thread to see what other people thought.
2.There's a difference between using an idea for reference and completely doing the same thing with very slight differences.
3.Alot of people die in Marvel and DC but it's odd their two biggest street levelers died almost the same exact way and have similar circumstances going on in their books after death.
@box turtle said:
" @Unbreakable Bracelets said:1.Daredevil isn't crazy rich but he is a playboy."I like how people are trying to act like Daredevil and Moon Knight aren't based on Batman. "Moon Knight--maybe. Daredevil--no way. He is not a crazy rich playboy with no powers and lots of violence. He is meant to represent the opposite of organized crime, he is a lawyer, he is blind, he is healthier, and he has powers. "
2.I don't know why you keep saying violence.There isn't one street leveler whose books isn't riddled with violence.
3.Matt Murdock and Bruce Wayne have different occupations.Batman and Daredevil don't
"@Lyrad said:" Coincidence?..... Rip off?........ Why do you care so much? More to the point, we have stories to read, thats it. I'n this day in age, what really is original??Everyone copies/ is influenced by another.I don't read DC (not because I dislike it, I just don't read DC) so I don't really have any frame of refference, but I am certain this rip of/ coincidence between Marvel and DC is one of many MANY MANY occasions where there are similarities in stories and characters. So just sit back and enjoy what you like reading. "1.I DON'T care so much.I made the thread to see what other people thought.2.There's a difference between using an idea for reference and completely doing the same thing with very slight differences.3.Alot of people die in Marvel and DC but it's odd their two biggest street levelers died almost the same exact way and have similar circumstances going on in their books after death.@box turtle said:" @Unbreakable Bracelets said:1.Daredevil isn't crazy rich but he is a playboy."I like how people are trying to act like Daredevil and Moon Knight aren't based on Batman. "Moon Knight--maybe. Daredevil--no way. He is not a crazy rich playboy with no powers and lots of violence. He is meant to represent the opposite of organized crime, he is a lawyer, he is blind, he is healthier, and he has powers. "2.I don't know why you keep saying violence.There isn't one street leveler whose books isn't riddled with violence.3.Matt Murdock and Bruce Wayne have different occupations.Batman and Daredevil don't"
I meant crazy and rich, not crazy rich. Also, if your going to say Daredevil is a rip-off just because he is a butt-kicking street fighter, you are insane--that is not an idea DC can claim.
I meant crazy and rich, not crazy rich. Also, if your going to say Daredevil is a rip-off just because he is a butt-kicking street fighter, you are insane--that is not an idea DC can claim. "I'm not saying Daredevil is a rip-off really i'm saying he's based on Batman.They have similar attitudes,they both got their stealth and speed from Ninjutsu,they both do detective work (except DD uses his powers to help).They both have people on the police force they trust and confide in,They both only seem to handle most of their crimes at night.You almost never see either of them in broad daylight.And so on and so on and so on.
"@box turtleI meant crazy and rich, not crazy rich. Also, if your going to say Daredevil is a rip-off just because he is a butt-kicking street fighter, you are insane--that is not an idea DC can claim. "I'm not saying Daredevil is a rip-off really i'm saying he's based on Batman.They have similar attitudes,they both got their stealth and speed from Ninjutsu,they both do detective work (except DD uses his powers to help).They both have people on the police force they trust and confide in,They both only seem to handle most of their crimes at night.You almost never see either of them in broad daylight.And so on and so on and so on. "
Still, I think those aren't exactly ideas that were ripped-off, multiple people can think them up.
"@Vance Astro said:"@Lyrad said:" Coincidence?..... Rip off?........ Why do you care so much? More to the point, we have stories to read, thats it. I'n this day in age, what really is original??Everyone copies/ is influenced by another.I don't read DC (not because I dislike it, I just don't read DC) so I don't really have any frame of refference, but I am certain this rip of/ coincidence between Marvel and DC is one of many MANY MANY occasions where there are similarities in stories and characters. So just sit back and enjoy what you like reading. "1.I DON'T care so much.I made the thread to see what other people thought.2.There's a difference between using an idea for reference and completely doing the same thing with very slight differences.3.Alot of people die in Marvel and DC but it's odd their two biggest street levelers died almost the same exact way and have similar circumstances going on in their books after death.
End of the day, the comic industry is a business. It's all about making money. If fans are willing to buy and read the comics, the companies are willing to write / rip off what ever.
End of the day, the comic industry is a business. It's all about making money. If fans are willing to buy and read the comics, the companies are willing to write / rip off what ever. "This kind of has nothing to do with my thread.I know what the comic industry is and what it's about I know people in the industry.That's not the point.All I was wondering is if I was the only one who saw the extreme similarities.That's all.
"@Lyrad said:Endof the day, the comic industry is a business. It's all about making money. If fans are willing to buy and read the comics, the companies are willing to write / rip off what ever. "This kind of has nothing to do with my thread.I know what the comic industry is and what it's about I know people in the industry.That's not the point.All I was wondering is if I was the only one who saw the extreme similarities.That's all. "
Fair enough, And I can now see that I was steering away from the point. I wasn't having a go at you and I do understand why you started this thread.
I was simply asking a question in the form of stating my opinion. Which is "why care?" again, I know you don't care that much and was just interested in what others had to say.
Again, I'm steering away from the point and babbling on with my self.
I guess I just don't understand why it's an issue. Batman and Captain America are two of the biggest selling characters, I can't remember who was first to announce they are killing off one of their main characters, (I think it was DC) so the other company did the same to compete with sales. I know you know that.......... Thats all I can really contribute to this thread.
Fair enough, And I can now see that I was steering away from the point. I wasn't having a go at you and I do understand why you started this thread.I was simply asking a question in the form of stating my opinion. Which is "why care?" again, I know you don't care that much and was just interested in what others had to say.Again, I'm steering away from the point and babbling on with my self.I guess I just don't understand why it's an issue. Batman and Captain America are two of the biggest selling characters, I can't remember who was first to announce they are killing off one of their main characters, (I think it was DC) so the other company did the same to compete with sales. I know you know that.......... Thats all I can really contribute to this thread. "That's what i'm trying to tell you..it's not an issue.I'm just asking if anyone else sees what I see.That's all.
Coincidence and if it isn't, Marvel is the one copying.
- Morrison was offered the role of Batman writer by Peter Tomasi when he was the editor of the Batman books, although Morrison's run started until after the last months of 2006, he had already plotted, written and delivered the ideas of where he was taking Bruce, Dick, Damian, Tim, etc. since 2004, 2 years before the death of Captain America.
- Ed Brubaker has stated (though whetever he is saying the truth or not I don't know) that he has yet to read Final Crisis and that his idea of "stuck in time and moving through different times of his life until reaching the present" came from a book (he stated which one, I don't remember the name)
- Steve Rogers' death was a retcon while Batman's wasn't. You see even before the Final Crisis is over that Batman who was hit by the Omega Sentence (not a gun like someone pointed out) and sent to the time of Anthro, the first boy on Earth. From the beginning DC stated it this way and no retcon was ever put in place, no matter if the DCU believe that Bruce is dead. On the other hand Steve Rogers was stated as dead, buried and stated as that, even so a recent retcon that came around 3 months after Final Crisis finished saying that Captain America was trapped in the past.
- Commentaries of Ed Brubaker and Joe Quezada seem to be contradicting each other, on separate interviews Brubaker said that the way Rogers was getting back was planned by him that way from the beginning and that in fact he originally wanted to bring Steve back just 6 issues after his death but more ideas started to spin about how to use Bucky, on the other hand Quezada said that Brubaker changed around (I think he said) times before comming to that decision.
other things although not mentioned by Vance which I think should be adressed because statements of Joe Quezada may make people have a wrong idea of who ripped of who.
According to Joe Quezada, over one of the Cup'o joe questions DC copied them by using the slogan "Batman: Reborn" on their covers. Now everyone knows that the solicits of comics are released 3 months prior to their printing. "Batman and Robin" which was the series to kick-off the "Batman reborn" status for the batman family titles was solicited one month before Captain America reborn, on top of that the first thing that the solicit said was "Batman reborn begins here". On top of that "Captain America: Reborn" wasn't solicited with that name (Originally it was simply solicited as "Reborn" and the text solicit classified) until the same day that Captain America #600 was released, which happened 2 weeks after "Batman and Robin #1" was released.
3.Then you have R.I.P it's sort of like the behind the scenes events that led to Cap's death.Attempts of the Black Glove ultimately led to a far more physically and mentally broken Batman who was ultimately killed by Darksied.And who is the leader of the Black Glove? The Red Skull with a Black Skull,otherwise known as Black Mask.Could it be a coincidence that the man who just became Batman's worst enemy looks exactly like the guy whom from behind the scenes orchestrated the plot that got Cap killed? "Black Mask wasn't connected to the Black Glove, the leader of the Black Glove was Doctor Hurt
" @Man Without Fear said:My first mistake :)3.Then you have R.I.P it's sort of like the behind the scenes events that led to Cap's death.Attempts of the Black Glove ultimately led to a far more physically and mentally broken Batman who was ultimately killed by Darksied.And who is the leader of the Black Glove? The Red Skull with a Black Skull,otherwise known as Black Mask.Could it be a coincidence that the man who just became Batman's worst enemy looks exactly like the guy whom from behind the scenes orchestrated the plot that got Cap killed? "Black Mask wasn't connected to the Black Glove, the leader of the Black Glove was Doctor Hurt "
I just discovered this thread and who knows if anybody above still cares, but I had to add this comment. I'm surprised nobody else pointed this out.
Most of the "rip-offs" listed by Box Turtle are not rip-offs. They were either dissimilar characters whose writers/artists developed comparable approaches, or, with most of Box Turtles examples, they were homages.
When Avengers writer Roy Thomas came up the Squadron Supreme (formerly Squadron Sinister) he did so because, as a fanboy at heart, he wanted to see the Avengers go up against the JLA. But being friendly competitors in a time where inter-company cross-overs were a comics-lover's pipe dream, Roy did the next best thing: a came up with a team of characters deliberately modeled after the JLA. It was not an attempt by Marvel to present new heroes and sell them as original creations to a gullible readership. The fans knew what Roy Thomas was doing and loved it. DC knew what Roy was doing and appreciated the tribute.
It was a similar situation with the Imperial Guard. Dave Cockrum was a longtime artist on LSH. Then he left DC to work for Marvel, but kept his love of the LSH. In the late 70s, the LSH series, and Cockrum and Chris Claremont's X-MEN became two of the biggest fan-favorites of the time. Many fans would have loved to have seen a cross-over between the two teams. So did Dave Cockrum, so he designed a group obviously based on the LSH. Again, it was a hit with the fans who thought this was as close as Marvel and DC would ever get to a true cross-over. And, again, DC was cool with it.
Neither the Squadron Supreme nor the Imperial Guard were "rip-offs". Marvel's creative teams weren't thinking, "hey, if we took DC's heroes and changed their names and costumes a little, we could trick the readers into thinking they're our own creations and buying more of our comics!" They were giving fans cross-overs that were otherwise impossible. Also note that neither team got their own title until many years after their respective introductions.
As for Daredevil, anybody who's ever read a comic published more than five years ago should know it's asinine to call him a Batman rip-off. Take a look at any issue of DAREDEVIL from #1 to #160 or so. The approaches to crime-fighting, the powers, the civilian alter egos, the origins: all dissimilar. In the late 70s, Frank Miller, influenced by his love of hard-boiled crime fiction and Japanese manga, took DAREDEVIL into the direction for which the catchphrase "grim-and-gritty" was coined. It was DAREDEVIL's success that led DC to return Batman to a "grim-and-gritty" style (as well as dozens of other comics in a "g & g" plague).
Moon Knight likewise was not introduced as a Batman clone. When the popularity of Marvel's 70s monster comics was on the wane, they tried a few things to boost sales. One approach was to turn WEREWOLF BY NIGHT from a supernatural series to one with more super-heroic elements. So the villain/hero Moon Knight, a mercenary, not a crime-fighter, was presented as an occasional foe of the Werewolf. Instead, however, MK struck a chord with the readers and was eventually awarded his own series. Now, at this point, it can be argued that the MOON KNIGHT series somewhat ripped off BATMAN, as a similar background was added to the character. But he did not start out that way.
I don't know enough about the Sentry to comment on him.
So, for the most part, these characters are not rip-offs. Of course, nor are the similarities coincidences. The Squadron Supreme and the Imperial Guard were tributes. The creative teams behind Daredevil and Batman independently developed similar approaches. Fans who know some of the history should know this. And if anyone still considers them "rip-offs", they should also consider Superman a rip-off of Philip Wylie's pulp novel "Gladiator", Batman a rip-off of Zorro, Wonder Woman a female rip-off of Superman, and all super-heroes as rip-offs of the myths and legends developed by mankind throughout history.
As well Red Skull and Black Mask have nothing in common except similar head gear
@elvinisaev said:
Western Comicbook Publishers rip off each other.
Japan do it just as much, maybe even more.
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