Rate these DC god tiers from most powerful to least powerful

1- Lucifer

2- The Source

3- Michael

4- Manhattan

5 - Perpetua

6 - BWL

7- True Form Darkseid

8 - Mxy

9 - Anti-Monitor, World Forger

10 - Spectre

11 - CAS

12 - Mandrakk

@supermanwin1875:

Lucifer himself was locked in a cage, kept as a pet by Trigon son.

When did that happen?

Trigon Who stalemated mr.mxy,

TDK stomped heaven, hell , new Genesis , Skyland , dreams library , etc

DrM>TDK>mxy , and mxy has also stomped spectre, heaven, and everything in it.

Anti-monitor erased concepts undreamt of by the presence. So not sure why u would put the archangels that high,

@supermanwin1875:

Lucifer himself was locked in a cage, kept as a pet by Trigon son. Trigon Who stalemated mr.mxy,

Not exactly.
a) It likely wasn't the main Lucifer we know, cause he had left creation after Lucifer (2000) in 2006 and didn't return for a decade until Lucifer (2016)
b) Lucifer was completely depowered at the time because he had given away all his demiurgic power to Mazikeen.
c) Lucifer hadn't even been in hell or ruled hell at that time, unlike what that comic says. Mazikeen was the leader.

TDK stomped heaven, hell , new Genesis , skyland , dreams library , etc

DrM>>>>>>TDK>>>mxy , and mxy has also stomped spectre, heaven, and everything in it.
I don't see why Dr Manhattan would be above TDK, who should be an amped Dr Manhattan wielding the power of the Crisis energies.

Anti-monitor erased concepts undreamt of by the presence. So not sure why u would put the archangels that high,

@great_darkness: Then who was that imposter inside the cage of belial? And why was Trigon crowned King of hell at the time ? .. There must be an explanation to this.
Probably one of his "aspects" or something like that

Connective energy > crisis energy. TDK was not even close to the power of Dr.M, but fractiions away from it. So not sure where u get the idea that TDK is an amped Dr.M, when he couldn’t replicate a single feat of his.
Dr Manhattan really had no impressive feats aside from destroying the Metaverse, a single universe, something even Perpetua has done. And TDK was BWL in a Dark Multiverse Dr Manhattan's body channeling the crisis energies.

@sladeracer: How is Manhattan above the Source?

@happylife1996:

Infinite frontier Ascended Diana and Spectre had a conversation and talked about many things. One of those things is Diana claimed that Dr.M is omnipotent, and Spectre did not say a word. There was no disagreement.

Dr.M enters the DC world, and does what he wants. Nobody can stop him. Nobody understandds Dr.M, everyone is confused. Dr.M oneshot/recreated DC into rebirth/N52, and left a fraction of his power in DC, and left.

If u pass the source wall, u get turned into a floating statue or trapped inside the wall itself. Monitors who have went past the Overvoid have gotten erased. There is a power in the final barriers of DC, that prevent multiverses from coming in and out and act like a security. The source and its agents, could not even touch Dr.M and instead of Jon getting turned into a statue. Instead, the source itself got one shotted and retcon into rebirth. And that was only 1 Dr.M/ out of infinity. So that why

@great_darkness: ur confusing Batmanhattan with Dr.M , they are 2 diff characters.

@great_darkness:

Seems like u are, calling TDK an amped Dr.M as if he has his powers, and u saying he was in a dark multiverse inside of Dr.M body.

Tdk was in a body of Bahmanhattan( Bruce wayne) and never wielded “ the power of Dr.M” but only a very small part of it.

Evidence?

>TDK had issues catching speedforce users Wally, Jay, Barry. Wally barreeely had any fractions of Connective energy from Dr.M, who effortlessly has oneshot zoom twice and Wally. This is enough proof that Dr.M > Batmanhattan.

That's because he was still gaining power at the time. And it was kind of his plan there. He would chase Wally and the speedsters and make them sit on the chair, and when they sat on the chair, they didn't notice he had siphoned it all off already.

>Diana with a fraction of dr.m(connective energy) has stalemated perpetua and almost killed her. Perpetua also cannot make herself as powerful as she wishes herself to be under the laws of a source controlled environment, she needs time to stack up power.and was bounded inside the walls of connective energy(source wall) , Dr.M has infinite power, does not need any time to stack up power because he has his own infinite supply, and exits/enters the source.

She didn't almost stalemate Perpetua and almost kill her. At least afaik. And Dr Manhattan had a portion of Connective Energy. He didn't have all of it. Diana having the same power source as Dr Manhattan doesn't prove anything. Perpetua couldn't even destroy the multiverse in one shot, and resorted to destroying them one by one cause she needed to recharge after destroying each one.

> When TDK found Wally west stash( fraction of dr.m energy + Mobius chair/crisis energy) TDK fought Perpetua evenly for a while, and then absorbed her power and imprison her. And then was plotting to wipe out her whole race( the hands)......pay attention to it. Perpetua absorbed crisis energy and hides from the hands. TDK got a fraction of dr.M energy from the Mobius chair, and was plotting to wipe out her whole race., let that sink in.

We also saw TDK getting power from other sources as well, and he just added it onto his own. It doesn't imply that the small fraction of Dr M's power would make TDK above The Hands, but it implies that TDK with his original power, plus all the other amps he got, would make him above The Hands.

Diana beat up TDK, and later claimed Dr.M is omnipotent. So that seals the deal. If u put Dr.M VS perpetua in a fight, Jon would oneshot/retcon her into rebirth.

Omnipotent statements are everywhere. Odin is Omnipotent? lmao.

1)source

2)Lucifer

Rest are fodder

@great_darkness: Odin is a self proclaimed omnipotent, who got trashed by Jane foster. Diana is a cosmic entity calling another entity omnipotent( dr.m who never lost a fight)

Dr M can't be Omnipotent though when his power couldn't fix the multiverse.

Thanks for agreeing that tdk “ was still gaining power at time” ... to build up power, to catch the connective energy speedForce users. Dr.m never needs “ time” to build up power. He is above the concept of time, and has infinite of his own power, thus never needs to power up.

iirc, Dr Manhattan couldn't even see forward through time because of takyons or something. Let alone being above the concept of time.

Batmanhattan was at a singlular point in time, got captured by bwl, and thus was not above the concept of time. Which explains why he could not tag wally(who has fractions of dr.m power) and when bwl turned into tdk( by taking the Batmanhattan body) that perpetua imiddiately dropped everything she was doing and pointed her immediate attention on TDK trying to make deals. Perpetua also admitted she was trying to avoid detection from the hands. So this is why she was destroying universes 1 by 1, because of she destroy the multiverse than that is an obvious sign of detection dont u think ?? But tdk ruined all that by actually warping the entire creation, and thus the hands came.

@great_darkness: check it out,

this is the bwl who took bruce wayne's(batmanhattan body) ,

this batmanhattan was in a singular point in time, and got captured by bwl. The scan even say it "near unlimited power" , when dr.m has unlimited power.

Dr Manhattan doesn't have unlimited power.

this is literally the scan right after bwl turned into tdk, perpetua dropped everthing she was doing and focuses all her attention on tdk trying to make deals,

What point are you trying to prove here?

dr.m does not need a body, is in infinite timelines and can do just that with just his consciousness ,

Gallery

it can't get any more clearer than this, tdk was after wally's power( fraction of dr.m energy) and that fraction would be powerful enough to kill perpetua. wally also outrace tdk, and dr.m oneshot eabord thawne(zoom) twice,

Nowhere was it stated a mere fraction of Dr M's energy would be powerful enough to kill Perpetua.

further evidence that the fraction of a fraction of dr.m power, diana stalemated and almost killed that perpetua. look at her face, it says it all.

Diana doesn't have Dr Manhattan's power. It doesn't come from him. They both share the same power source. Connective/Anti-Crisis Energies.

more proof that if tdk steals wallys fractions he > perpetua,

Yes, but that doesn't prove that Dr M > TDK in any way. It's just saying TDK + Wally's power > Perpetua.

this is crisis energy, what fuels perpetua. what she uses to empower herself. the crisis energy that destroyed concepts beyond concepts undreamt of by the presence.

tdk after he took wallys fraction, he dominated the gods sphere( hell, heaven, new genesis, skyland, dreams library, etc)

lucifer is below the presence, who is below perpetua/tdk.
But Presence is above Perpetua. Directly confirmed on panel. They're just his minions tasked with creating new multiverses. idk where you're getting the notion that Perpetua > Presence from.

@great_darkness:

there u go, a fraction of dr.m energy. Who wally also has a fraction of.

That scan just says BWL was harnessing Connective Energy. Dr Manhattan's power comes from Connective Energy, but that doesn't make Dr M > BWL in any way shape or form.

and my point with, batmanhattan, is that he was not above the concept of time, but dr.m is.


I don't think Dr M is above the concept of time, that scan you posted even said that he didn't even exist yet in a certain timeline.

perpetua/tdk > the presense, and no where does it ever state on canon DC otherwise.


But it does though. It explicitly refers to Perpetua and The Hands as minions of The Presence/Source and we see Perpetua get clowned by a servant of The Presence/Source

@great_darkness: there is a pile of incorrect statements u made. enough for me to conclude u don;t know what ur talking about.
Same could be said for you, but this is a comic discussion. No need for Ad Hominem and to bring in toxicity if you can prove your point well.

> dr.m gets his power from the source
Yes, his power is stated to be Connective Energy, which comes from The Source/Presence.
https://preview.redd.it/j8klz3dsn0361.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee60e7e20e5a3f47223f56d828ae80f5037583ed
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111411546/7422998-sourcepresence2.png

> dr.m is not above the concept of time
Which he isn't. Your own scan proved that.

> presense is above perpetua
Something that is directly stated on panel.
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111411546/7422998-sourcepresence2.png
Perpetua getting stomped by The Judge of The Source and her being scared of The Source should make it clear. I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that Perpetua > Presence from.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-88ec7acfefe6321d5500101feacca732

> bwl> tdk
BWL and TDK are the same character. TDK is BWLs in an alternate Dr Manhattan's body.

> tdk wearing dr.m body in dark multiverse

reread death metal, rebirth, n52, in fact reread the whole thing if u did not then that makes perfect sense.
I don't know how much it takes to convince you, but it directly states that Dr Manhattan's power wasn't enough to stop Perpetua, whom TDK was above.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ebpimalEVRqx0g_ApXhTFDQ7lFc=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/20086028/IMG_06B13AFABD55_1.jpeg

Dude, it's directly stated that Connective Energy is born of The Presence/Source. Presence and Source are the same thing. Confirmed on panel. You have still failed to prove that Dr M is above the concept of time.

Dr.M is from a separate reality from DC

on the front cover of dc, it says Dr.M meets DC

He is not from DC.

no it doesnt say that at all. All it says is that dr.m was brimming with connective energy. Im not ignoring any scans, u literally tried to argue that diana got her powers from the source, when i showed u proof she has a fraction of dr.m energy like the one from wally.

And Dr Manhattan's energy was The Source's energy. She had Connective Energy. His power is Connective Energy, as the scan said.

there is no proof source = presense. 2 diff beings.

um, the panel stated they're the same thing.

@great_darkness:

Dark multiverse, is a reflection of the "memory" of the multiverse of DC. And there is not even a single universe in there where it talks about the story of the rise and fall of the minutemen, crimebusters or when Dr.M created infinite universes at the meeting when he first met laurie.

None of that means anything. It doesn't prove anything for Dr M > TDK or Perpetua. And your scan doesn't say he created infinite universes anywhere.

dr.m is limitless and created infinity universes with a thought, universes that do not exist in DC. And even if watchmen verse existed inside the overvoid, then that means Dr.m> the presense because of these scans below,

Very contradictory. People always wank that scan without realizing that since Presence pretty much created every concept in existence, and created the rules the universe abides by. There's also numerous statements that would put Presence well above AM.

Gallery

in ur head, u think dr.m is inside DC and get his power from source?? yes. okay well lets play that.

Yes, because that's what the comic states.

in pre-crisis, a anti-matter wave has wiped out an infinite multiverse and affected the gods sphere making abstracts/gods mortal. Concepts undreamt of by the presense were wiped out. But nothing happened in the universe of watchmen. No anti-matter wave, no random shadow demon from mobius. how wierd, either dr.m negged the wave, or simply his verse is outside dc.


Yes, Watchmen was outside of DC originally, but his appearances in DC firmly put him as a DC character below Perpetua.

silver city was dominated by tdk. But i didn't see anywhere that watchmen verse( controlled by dr.m) was affected by any monitors or tdk. so this would mean that his universe is at the top of the hiearchy because it is not affected in the multiverse, nor dark multiverse, metaverse, gods sphere, nil, sixth dimension.

Doesn't really mean that when it's a separate universe. Likely another multiverse in the Omniverse, but still DC.

But entertainment of the idea is over, in canon watchmen verse is outside the overvoid.

You haven't proved that yet.

dr.m is telling u that moore's canon is seperate from DC, further proving my point. Dr.M does not get any power from the source. and no proof of it, and as of now 4 beings produce connective energy from themselves. Dr.M , presense, source, and QSupes. but the one diana had is obviously from jon.

No, it's saying that it's part of DC. And I've proved it to you time and time again, you just choose to ignore the scans. The clearly stated, Connective Energy comes from The Source. idk if you're dense or illiterate.

jj oh and if u think that source = presense. then that means he got retcon, and guess who is out here retconing all of DC? so that's that.
He isn't retconning people above him. And neither was he responsible for retconning everything in DC. He retconned one time in Doomsday Clock afaik, and just destroyed one universe.