Rate the Novel: Revenge of the Sith

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JohnBrief

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Poll Rate the Novel: Revenge of the Sith (14 votes)

10/10 36%
9/10 29%
8/10 21%
7/10 7%
6/10 0%
5/10 7%
4/10 0%
3/10 0%
2/10 0%
1/10 0%
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frozen

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#1 frozen  Moderator

10. Its a masterpiece. Much better than the film (which I like a lot).

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JohnBrief

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@frozen: Is it the best Star Wars novel?

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frozen

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#3 frozen  Moderator
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DarthAdi

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#4  Edited By DarthAdi

@frozen: The novel it's excelent but it kind of butchers Dooku (making him a racist for some reason) and even Padme.

For this reasons I would rate it 9/10

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infinitehope

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Revenge of the Sith is my favorite Star Wars movie but I thought the novel was much better.

Maybe 9/10. It might have been the best Star Wars related material I ever read/watched.

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BOC

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9.5-9.75. One of my favorite pieces of fiction, and by far the best Star Wars product.

@darthadi said:

The novel it's excelent but it kind of butchers Dooku (making him a racist for some reason) and even Padme.

For this reasons I would rate it 9/10

What makes you say that?

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DarthAdi

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@boc: Because of stuff like this

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DarthAdi

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@boc:

Now that I think more, it might be in line with the movie, as she dies of sadness.

I still don't like it tho.

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deactivated-635a8f29e06c3

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cj_the_dj

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8/10.

It's a really good novel (probably the best SW book), but I think the prose is too flowery, and the story/characters aren't quite as compelling as those in other stuff I've read.

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cj_the_dj

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@darthadi:

The novel it's excelent but it kind of butchers Dooku (making him a racist for some reason)

What's wrong with Dooku being a racist?

and even Padme.

Because of stuff like this

If you take the very literal view of the passage that her being Anakin's wife is the most important thing about her then, yes, I can see how that would be character butchering. However, I don't see why you would considering Stover, and the novel generally, are notorious for being non-literal - he consistently uses an extreme amount of hyperbole. I didn't read that passage with the idea that Padme's whole character revolved around being Anakin's wife, but rather read it with the idea that she's extremely committed to him and that being with him has improved her life greatly - both of which are true.

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DarthAdi

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@cj_the_dj: Dooku being this overt racist and human supremacist is inconsistent with his portrayal in pretty much every other source.

While Stover filled his novel with flowery speech any hyperboles, that doesn't excuse the way this passage reads especially considering she is the only character described this way. I don't remember Anakin being written in this way for example, but it's been a while since I read the novel so I might be wrong.

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SonOfDarkness

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It’s good, maybe like 8/10 or 9/10

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cj_the_dj

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#14  Edited By cj_the_dj

@darthadi:

Dooku being this overt racist and human supremacist is inconsistent with his portrayal in pretty much every other source.

Do you have any evidence of specific contradictions?

While Stover filled his novel with flowery speech any hyperboles, that doesn't excuse the way this passage reads especially considering she is the only character described this way. I don't remember Anakin being written in this way for example, but it's been a while since I read the novel so I might be wrong.

She isn't the only character described this way, Kenobi has a very similar passage about being Anakin's best friend:

And Obi-Wan Kenobi knows, too, that to have lived his life without being Master to Anakin Skywalker would have left him a different man. A lesser man.

Anakin has taught him so much.

[...]

Training Anakin - and fighting beside him, all these years - has unlocked something inside Obi-Wan.

[...]

Though he does not know it, his relationship with Anakin has molded him into the great Jedi Qui-Gon always said he might be.

[...]

He is the ultimate Jedi.

And he is proud to be Anakin Skywalker's best friend.

Credit: Revenge of the Sith Novelization

That aside, simply saying that the passage being hyperbole doesn't excuse it doesn't make it the case - you haven't provided any reason why. I don't see a reason one should care about flowery prose - "my life began when I met you" is a fairly common romantic cliche - when it's intended meaning is far less egregious than what is written and actually fully true.

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DarthAdi

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#15  Edited By DarthAdi

@cj_the_dj:

1. If you want me to provide explicit evidence that he wasn't racist I don't have that.

My point is that him being racist was never hinted in his myriad of previous appearances despite being a PoV character in Y:DR (hard to belive in general that this Dooku is the same person as the sociopath from the ROTS novel)

Introducing such a drastic characteristic to a character at the eleventh hour is still character butchery in my eyes.

2. Kenobi being called a better man/jedi because he's Anakin's master is not equivalent to this "For Padme Amidala, saying I'm Anakin Skywalker's wife is saying neither more or less than I am alive" or this "her innermost reality, the most fundamental, unbreakable core of her being"

However, I already aknowledged in this thread that this may be consistent with the movie, where she dies of sadness, so I don't fault Stover too much for this anymore

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cj_the_dj

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#16  Edited By cj_the_dj

@darthadi:

1. If you want me to provide explicit evidence that he wasn't racist I don't have that.

My point is that him being racist was never hinted in his myriad of previous appearances

Which is largely the case because Dooku is written from other character's POVs where he tries to sell himself as a politically justified revolutionary - someone fighting against the corruption of the Republic. Due to the fact that this is a mask, his core motivations are actually very flexible/underdeveloped, meaning Stover can colour them in to a greater extent without really stepping on any previous writer's work.

despite being a PoV character in Y:DR

But Yoda: Dark Rendevous doesn't explore Dooku's end goals and plans, so this isn't a problem? We know he wants power, but what form this specifically would take is unknown.

In fact, this is basically my issue with your entire argument, you're critiquing Stover for adding details to his character and calling it "butchery" when Dooku didn't really have much established at his core to begin with.

(hard to belive in general that this Dooku is the same person as the sociopath from the ROTS novel)

The reason the two versions of Dooku seem different is purely because YDR Dooku is leaning towards the light from the very start of the novel. He's in a unique moment of vulnerability where he displays regret for his actions, so that makes him sympathetic, but if you look at it his character traits they're fundamentally the same as they are in ROTS. He has the same arrogance and view of his own superiority, the same desire for power, the same jealousy of Anakin, etc. In fact, he rejects any possibility for redemption for himself, and continues his war which causes mass death purely for his own personal gain, precisely because of the latter reason - showing just how sociopathic and spiteful he really is.

Introducing such a drastic characteristic to a character at the eleventh hour is still character butchery in my eyes.

It isn't drastic. Given how the Dark Side is basically totally focused on the acquisition of power it isn't a big shift to go from "someone who wants to rule" to "someone who wants humans (himself) to rule over aliens" especially if they have the background of being an aristocrat where discrimination towards "lower class citizens" is common.

--- --- ---

2. Kenobi being called a better man/jedi because he's Anakin's master is not equivalent to this "For Padme Amidala, saying I'm Anakin Skywalker's wife is saying neither more or less than I am alive"

In quoting this you seem to have missed the reason why. The subsequent sentence establishes that this is the case because her life before Anakin was so inferior to how it is now: "Her life before Anakin belonged to someone else, some lesser being to be pitied, some poor impoverished spirit who could never suspect how profoundly life should be lived."

Or, in other words, very similar to a certain statement from the passage I posted regarding Kenobi: "And Obi-Wan Kenobi knows, too, that to have lived his life without being Master to Anakin Skywalker would have left him a different man. A lesser man."

or this "her innermost reality, the most fundamental, unbreakable core of her being"

In Kenobi's case this is basically said without the words being explicitly written. It's described that everything he is, including the ultimate Jedi, is because he's Anakin's best friend - meaning it could probably be stated that being such is the "core" of his being, too.

Overall, I think that both passages are clearly written with the same gist/run along the same lines. We can quibble over semantics more, but, frankly, I think it's just missing the fact that Stover wrote Anakin as the protagonist of the novel and thus hyperbolically described many character's in such a way that emphasised Anakin's importance to their lives.

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Way better than the film, probably my favorite Star Wars novel (I've read scores of them).

You can take some digs at "flowery language" but isn't really ever a problem to me besides an occasional nitpick.