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#1 Edited by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

When fighting hand to hand, size and clothing determine how effective attacks will be. In this thread, we will be focussing on Maya, who has just been taken captive by Wanda Maximoff, and discuss how she can fight her way out of this situation.

Premise: Wanda Maximoff is done protecting people, and now kills to get what she wants. Attempting to steal from a local jewlery store at night, Wanda used her telekinesis to kill an old couple, the owners of the store. Suddenly thier daughter, Maya, a short, stout lady walked in to witness the carnage of her parent's murder, just as Wanda grabbed Maya from behind, pinning her hands behind her back. In the scuffle to pin Maya's hands behind her back, Wanda realized her powers had just stopped working. This would be a hand to hand fight. "Lady..." Maya says thinking of a way to attack, "you've done some awful things.... and you're gonna pay for all of it RIGHT NOW!"

Compare Maya and Wanda's size and outfit, and talk about ways Maya could fight her way out of the situation given the following conditions:

Wanda is standing behind Maya pinning Maya's hands tightly behind her back

Hand-to-hand fight

Maya is enraged due to Wanda's murder of her family

Because Maya will have to escape the scene and survive on her own from this point on, stealing is what she must do to survive. So, given the picture of what Wanda's wearing, state ONE item of clothing that Maya should steal for her survival.

Maya

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Wanda

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#2 Posted by Cosmic_Templar (2571 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Witch doesn't have many H2H feats. So I'm gonna say it's possible for Maya to fight her way out of it. Weight is a big factor to winning fights after all. I don't really know what you mean by stealing items of clothing tho.

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#3 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_templar: That's a good point! What attacks do you think Maya should try given that her hands are currently pinned?

About the items of clothing, I meant that since Maya will be on her own, stealing is what she'll have to do to survive. So based on the picture of what Wanda's currently wearing, what's ONE part of Wanda's outfit that Maya should steal in order to help her survive in the long run?

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#5 Posted by Yassassin (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

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#6 Posted by Hegemon (11509 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by modernww2fare (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda!

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#8 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: I agree, how do you think Maya should fight her way out though, given the situation?

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#9 Posted by Hegemon (11509 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: I agree, how do you think Maya should fight her way out though, given the situation?

She could just snap her neck.

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#10 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@modernww2fare: I think Maya also has rage on her side which would help! What attacks do you think Maya should try to fight her way out of the given situation?

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#11 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: Wanda's standing behind Maya pinning her hands behind her back though, so Maya would have to find a way to get Wanda to let go before she uses her hands to fight!

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#12 Posted by Hegemon (11509 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: Wanda's standing behind Maya pinning her hands behind her back though, so Maya would have to find a way to get Wanda to let go before she uses her hands to fight!

She can always elbow the back of her head, or neck.

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#13 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (10933 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not know if she is a Maya is proficient in fighting (I am going to assume she is not), but I am pretty sure Ms. Maximoff is definitely not.

Heels on Maya's shoes are rather slim, could cause to fall of balance more easily than Wanda's foot wear, but then again she can easily get those off shaking her feet around, but there could be the potential that broken glass could be on the floor when some display cases do fall or something from Maya struggling to get free or the fight itself.

Additionally, given that Maya will have to escape the scene and survive on her own from this point on, stealing is what she must do to survive. So, given the picture of what Wanda's wearing, state ONE item of clothing that Maya should steal for her survival.

Most valuable item on Wanda's apparel that she can steal is basically what you are asking I guess? I am initially guessing she would sell them.

I would say a clothing or fashion and material expert will have a better say on that, and people who know exactly what brand of clothing or something is Wanda wearing, but realistically, I see her stealing everything or taking a few jewelries from the store based on some of the things you said.

Based on the usefulness of clothing alone, I guess I would say the coat to keep her warm in potential winters (Is she even in a country with snow?). I would assume she will be mostly fine walking without foot wear.

Wanda is standing behind Maya pinning Maya's hands tightly behind her back

I do not know what she can do other than using her weight to push her on a bunch of debris or a wall to get her to let go. Headbutting Wanda is not an option because of the height disparity.

That is the best I can think of she will be doing when enraged.

Pinning her down on the floor is an option, though I am not sure how effective that will be.

-----------------------------------

I do not see Maya easily breaking out of Wanda's grip, but if she does, it will be a good fight (though not as flashy) in my point of view.

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#14 Posted by Silver_Spider_ (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup:

@ultimate_knight said:

I do not know if she is a Maya is proficient in fighting (I am going to assume she is not), but I am pretty sure Ms. Maximoff is definitely not.

Heels on Maya's shoes are rather slim, could cause to fall of balance more easily than Wanda's foot wear, but then again she can easily get those off shaking her feet around, but there could be the potential that broken glass could be on the floor when some display cases do fall or something from Maya struggling to get free or the fight itself.

Additionally, given that Maya will have to escape the scene and survive on her own from this point on, stealing is what she must do to survive. So, given the picture of what Wanda's wearing, state ONE item of clothing that Maya should steal for her survival.

Most valuable item on Wanda's apparel that she can steal is basically what you are asking I guess? I am initially guessing she would sell them.

I would say a clothing or fashion and material expert will have a better say on that, and people who know exactly what brand of clothing or something is Wanda wearing, but realistically, I see her stealing everything or taking a few jewelries from the store based on some of the things you said.

Based on the usefulness of clothing alone, I guess I would say the coat to keep her warm in potential winters (Is she even in a country with snow?). I would assume she will be mostly fine walking without foot wear.

Basically, I agree with the fact of what she would steal, although she could just as easily just steal the boots, since they might be worth more than the jacket, although I'm not totally sure.

As for the fight, if Maya doesn't care about having a headache of whatever, then a headbutt might work. Now, if she doesn't do that, she could try to use her weight to push against Wanda and knock her over taking but taking Maya with her. Their are quite a number of ways she could slip out due to size or whatever, but that isn't the point right now. What is the point is the fact is Wanda had any hand-to-hand combat training or anything similar since her joining the Avengers. The fact is that at the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron, Steve and Natasha decided they needed to train with the "new" recruits, such as War Machine, Wanda, and a few others to learn how to work together and so on. If she did, then Wanda wins. If not, Wanda had a good a chance at defeat as Maya. Although, I'm slightly in favor of Wanda, since Maya seems to be wearing heels that would inhibit her fighting somewhat, either breaking or falling over due to her being enraged and possibly running at Wand to attack her, since I think anyoen woudl do that if their parents were killed and want revenge.

Now, I'm talking at a theoretical standpoint. There could be a few other factors I may or may not be aware of. But, this is my thoughts and opinion on the situation. =)

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#15 Edited by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@silver_spider_: Those are good ideas about fighting strategies!!! And no we assume she didn't get much hand to hand training with the avengers. I don't know how well a headbutt would work though given their height difference? Maya's head would reach only up to about Wanda's chest. Also, she'd be stealing the item of clothing with the purpose of wearing it to help her chances of surviving after the attack, based on that which item do you think she should take?

@god_vulcan Invite!

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#16 Posted by HigherPower (12184 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: I think Wanda wins for reasons listed above, but it could go either way

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#17 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: If Maya were to survive though, how do you think she'd fight her way out of the situation she's in?

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#18 Posted by Silver_Spider_ (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: Oh, yeah. Forget about that then, but, oh well, I mean, it could still hurt. Maybe. idk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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#19 Posted by Batvibe12 (5570 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: Since Maya is wearing a dress and high-heels, it's going to be hard for her to have some kicks. Also, if she is bloodlusted, she may forget about her surroundings. Unless she channels her anger into her punches and quickly takes off her high-heels, she could win.

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#20 Posted by removekebab (3789 posts) - - Show Bio

This is better suited to the RPG forum

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#21 Posted by Orange_Water (6583 posts) - - Show Bio

The above people are correct in saying that Wanda doesn't have many h2h fighting while it could be assumed she has received training off screen from cap and widow we can't use assumptions like that. So yes I have no choice but to say Maya wins due to bloodlust if she frees herself by maybe just pushing off the ground and throwing off her balance by tackling backwards.

Now she breaks free and beats the crap out of Wanda killing her with some broken glass or with her fists. So what clothing does she take I say pants could get cold best be prepared for some bad weather if your drifting.

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#22 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15651 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: Well let's see, Wanda is only slightly taller than Maya, but since Maya has on high heels, their heights should be closer. Taking into account that her hands are currently pinned and her back is to SW, Maya should stomp on Wanda's foot as hard as possible (should hurt even more giver that Maya has on heels), and then throw her head back to headbutt SW. Depending on how flush a blow she gets, this could potentially break Wanda's nose, but at the very least the combined pain from the foot and the surprise headbutt should allow the heavier Maya to break free from Wanda's grip.

Now that she's free, the first thing she should do...is get the heels off lol. She'll have no balance in those. Wanda has no H2H feats to speak of, so this kinda comes down to who fights smarter. Maya is heavier, presumably angrier, and since she's in her parents' store, she should know the place extensively, which means an environmental advantage as well. She could try just using her weight as leverage, or (and this is obviously me not knowing the layout of the store in this scenario) break some of the glass holding the jewelry, so she can use a shard as a makeshift weapon. Either that, or use some other environmental factor that only she would be privy to.

As far as the clothing she should take, I would say to take the jacket. It's long, covers a lot, leather is pretty good for warmth (assuming she needs it), and worse comes to worse, it's a pretty unique jacket and she can probably make a decent amount of money selling it.

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#23 Posted by TchallaisOpness (853 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya teases Wanda by laughing at how her entire family had died, effectively making Wanda mad AF, this allows Maya to get the upper hand, Kicking Wanda with her full leg strength. This hurls Wanda into the wall, where Maya then punches Wanda to death in the face before she can react.

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#24 Edited by IceDemonKing (9982 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't know much about the short one. I'll go with what regal said.

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#25 Posted by Rockette (5661 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya should drop like a rock (superior weight/mass than Wanda).

It'll break Wanda's thin-handed grasp.

Then Maya should take Wanda's legs out from under her.

Maya should then crawl on top of Wanda, take off her high-heels, and beat Wanda to death (in the face) with them.

Maya then discards the bloody heels, and steals Wanda's boots.

'Nuff Said.

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#26 Edited by HeroUp2112 (18162 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya should shove backward as forcefully as she can and the stomp with all her weight with the heels she's wearing on Wanda's instep, then jolt forward. This is her most likely chance (I'd say a good 75% chance) of breaking out of Wanda's grip.

She should then capitalize on the brief moment of surprise and pain and turn and attack ferociously, tackling Wanda to the ground and using her greater weight to keep her there. If possible Maya should pull the extra folds of Wanda's jacket up over her head and start dropping elbows onto Wanda's face and head until the smaller woman is unconscious or dead.

The key to most any fight is surprise, speed, and overwhelming violence. If Maya can achieve at least two of these (as described above) she has a decent chance of surviving or achieving victory in this encounter).

If I were her I'd take the boots. He's not going to do very well in those flimsy, heeled shoes she's wearing.

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#27 Edited by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: Those are really great ideas, the point about about the jacket is great, since it could definitely be a clothing disadvantage to Wanda! And I'm guessing Wanda's instep is the side of her shin? Also, I agree with the point about the boots, I was thinking the size difference could make it harder for Maya to use them?

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#28 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: so i guess the question is how does clothing and size affect the fight. To be honest, it depends.

In this situation, it depends on who's physically the most skilled out of the two. Wanda has been in the field and has seen battle firsthand, so she has tougher skin and is used to difficult situations. The same can't be said about maya. but if feats are equal and it's all about clothing and size, then it's wanda.

leather is badass, but it's tight, and can be difficult to move in when leather is tight. she is wearing a simple loose dress that is easy to move in. However, maya has heels, which can break anytime in the fight.

now when it comes to size, this can also go either way. wanda is more flexible, but maya has weight and general power advantage

now the true decision maker is the general skill. which I'll give it to wanda. Wanda isn't known for h2h. actually, she has no h2h feats. But, she works directly under cap. america. so i doubt she's lacking that much.

but that's how i see it.

thanks for tagging me.

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#29 Posted by detacude (1406 posts) - - Show Bio

I refuse to picture this fight in my mind, the imagery would be haunting, Maya is fierce ugly... Hopefully Wanda could kill it before it lays eggs

Additionally, given that Maya will have to escape the scene and survive on her own from this point on, stealing is what she must do to survive. So, given the picture of what Wanda's wearing, state ONE item of clothing that Maya should steal for her survival.

A brown paper bag

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#30 Posted by LannibleHecter (308 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as my knowledge goes there are two factors that affect the result of a fight (not talking professional here); size and aggression. Size is an advantage, and don't let anyone tell you different. Now I'm not saying you'll get some stocky 6ft summin' average joe drilling it into Connor McGregor but you'll find if you put him up against a bog-standard heavyweight he's not gonna stand a chance. Size means you're more difficult to move, you've got more mass to throw around. Especially in an actual fight where it goes straight to frantic grappling. However aggression is just as important. The guy who hits first and doesn't stop can't be stopped and while that's not strictly true if you don't hold back against the average guy you'll be better off.

However non of this extends to comics, or indeed a large portion of fiction.

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#31 Posted by Ivory_Vanguard (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I want to add that SW would be better protected from scratches and have more "cushion" in her clothing so blows would be lessened.

Although weight matters significantly I'd argue more so than clothing.

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#32 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya should drop. since she is really fat her weight should loosen SW's grasp. after that take her legs out and choke her out.

as for the clothing, i dont know, the coat might be the most useful.

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#33 Edited by passingthroughv2 (1285 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Maya should steal the jacket and SW h2h skills don't exist if Maya manages to cheap shot or use her weight to her advantage I could see her winning.

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#34 Edited by lillion1 (149 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_templar:

Weight is not an important factor the way you explained. If two people have trained to the limits of skills, small differences can make a huge difference. The only reason weight classes in martial arts exist, is because they were created for athletes who were so skilled that big differences in skill could no longer exist. In such a case a difference in weight, reach, stamina etc make a huge difference.

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If the difference in skill is too big, no matter how much harder you can hit that your opponent, it is almost impossible to win. Hard punches don't matter if you can't hit your opponent.

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Maya is fat, probably has a huge disadvantage in speed and stamina and will never be capable of landing a hit against the more nimble Wanda. The only hope she has is a surprise attack.

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Now I would not recommend her to punch. Punches are not easy. I have done Karate and boxing and I know that for an effective punch you should be able of shifting your entire body weight into it. Considering the form of Maya I do not believe she will be capable of it. Heavy weight boxers have trained for years to be capable of doing it properly, without the training they would have to move around too much weight. SLight imperfections in form could make Maya slower, make her trip over her own feet or fuck up her acceleration making the punch weak. It is also important to hit the right place, a hit on Wanda's nose or forehead will not knock Wanda out and she will be able to continue the fight (maybe with a broken nose). And therefore she will win. So no punching, even sucker punches will not be a guarantee for victory

.

The only way Maya can win is by using her biggest asset, by changing her weakness into a strength. Using a suprise attack she should grab hold of Wanda and start grappling. During grappling strength is of the utmost importance. She should aim for Wanda's neck, and try to choke her to death after throwing her on the ground. With her on top of Wanda. Hands on neck and using her body to kill Wanda. If the momentum of the fall is taken into account doing this might even break Wanda's neck, giving Maya the win.

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The other tactic is to use her stature to force Wanda into a corner or something and then proceed to the previously explained grappling tactic. Only do this if the grappling surprise tactic fails. Also she should keep the fight as short as possible. Grappling still takes lots of energy, more than punching and kicking. So if she takes too long she might be exhausted after a short amount of time, giving Wanda a chance to escape. Once escaped Wanda can safely counter attack, since she Maya won't be able of doing anything anymore.

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@lanniblehecter

Agree with most of what you said. Just don't think mass is the End all of fighting between unskilled fighters. While punching someone should still know how to put mass behind the punches, if that person does not know, he or she should stick to grappling/ wrestling. Also size does not matter either if you do not know how to connect punches.

Your point on aggression is correct though. We instinctively get defensive against aggressive people, and that can create an opening, mentally.

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@heroup2112

Agree with your statement on the key of battle. Just add technique to it and it is complete.

I do not believe though that your elbow tactic would be the best bet, elbows are extra movement. And someone fat would only get exhausted faster that way. Using the full body weight on your opponents neck to choke her or break the neck is a better strategy in this situation in my opinion. This way she makes full use of the only asset she has, her weight.

Again, punches elbows etc, are not about mass, but about the shifting of mass. Therefore technique is more important than weighting 100 kg. If she lack technique she should just focus on grappling. Not jujitsu, with joint locks etc. But good old fashioned choking.

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lets see, who else

Lots of people saying headbutts, elbows, knees etc. Again, they require technique, and when you can pin someone on the ground they become less effective in a life or dead situation than choking. The neck is the most vulnerable place on the human body. Make use of it, she has the weight.

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As for the piece of clothing part. She probaly will have to run or something. Don't know how running is in heels but sounds difficult. So steal Wanda's boots, wear them and run. Better than doing it barefoot.

Hope this was helpful

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#36 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16211 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya wins and takes her underwear.

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#37 Posted by mrmonster (14647 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya should steal a pair of running shoes. Those high heels are not ideal for fighting in.

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#38 Posted by Bardockdiaper (161 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Ouroborik (3339 posts) - - Show Bio

This is bizarre. So far @wollfmyth209 seems to have the best idea

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#40 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster: That's a good point! Which part of Wanda's outfit do you think Maya should steal after the fight though?

@wollfmyth209: I don't know if that would help Maya in this situation but interesting choice. What attacks do you think Wanda should try in order to get out of her current situation?

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#41 Posted by mrmonster (14647 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup: Well let's see, Wanda is only slightly taller than Maya, but since Maya has on high heels, their heights should be closer. Taking into account that her hands are currently pinned and her back is to SW, Maya should stomp on Wanda's foot as hard as possible (should hurt even more giver that Maya has on heels), and then throw her head back to headbutt SW. Depending on how flush a blow she gets, this could potentially break Wanda's nose, but at the very least the combined pain from the foot and the surprise headbutt should allow the heavier Maya to break free from Wanda's grip.

Now that she's free, the first thing she should do...is get the heels off lol. She'll have no balance in those. Wanda has no H2H feats to speak of, so this kinda comes down to who fights smarter. Maya is heavier, presumably angrier, and since she's in her parents' store, she should know the place extensively, which means an environmental advantage as well. She could try just using her weight as leverage, or (and this is obviously me not knowing the layout of the store in this scenario) break some of the glass holding the jewelry, so she can use a shard as a makeshift weapon. Either that, or use some other environmental factor that only she would be privy to.

As far as the clothing she should take, I would say to take the jacket. It's long, covers a lot, leather is pretty good for warmth (assuming she needs it), and worse comes to worse, it's a pretty unique jacket and she can probably make a decent amount of money selling it.

Those are really good points! The jacket would be a good choice too, the warmth would definitely be a plus factor! As for the fighting strategy, the point about the environmental advantage is really good! Another good point about her heels helping with the impact of foot stomp too! Do you think Wanda's boots would protect her from the pain of an attack like that? Do you think Maya should aim for a particular area for maximum impact?

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#43 Posted by Forgerkrup (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@ivory_vanguard: That's a really good point, Wanda's clothing would definitely provide some protection from blows actually. What attacks do you think Maya should try to get out of her current situation? Also which part of Wanda's costume do you think Maya should steal for her survival?

@lillion1: Those are some really good points! I like the point you made about turning her weakness into strength by using weight as an advantage. I was wondering what attacks do you think Maya should try to get out of her current situation though (Wanda is standing behind Maya, pinning Maya's hands tightly behind her back). Also, the boots are a good choice, since Maya will do a lot of running! Do you think the size of the boots will be an issue though?

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#44 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16211 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: This is ComicVine! Nothing is too bizzare!

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#45 Posted by lillion1 (149 posts) - - Show Bio

@forgerkrup:

If the size of the boots don't fit she shouldnt bother taking anything. More clothing is more weight and thus more exhaustion. Either way she should dump her own shoes since heels are bad.

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Wanda is pinning her arm from behind. It is a life or dead situation. She should throw her weight to the back and proceed as I have explained. Screw her arm, even if it breaks if she lives its worth it.

Corner Wanda, tackle her, use her weight to attack Wanda's neck, kill her. See if the boots fit. If not dump her heels. Don't take any clothing since non of it will fit her and will only weight her down. She also does not now if there is some tracking device in these clothes. Either boots or nothing. Run.

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#46 Edited by InFamous_Wolf (1427 posts) - - Show Bio

Well as other users have stated I'm not sure Wanda has any h2h showings so it is very possible for Maya to fight her way out. She should also steal Wanda's corset dress,shirt thing lmao. It might make her too embarrassed to fight back lol.

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#47 Posted by theawesomeflashsandiego32 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Maya stomps tbh. She just saw her family die. That alone gives her the edge. And I will bet money that she is stronger she should easily be able to get free of Wanda. And since Wanda has 0 hth feats we could say they are even. But given she us facing someone who killed her parents. Maya's adrenaline will make her stronger and quicker than normal.

So she has her hands behind her back. She ether breaks out with her arms or kicks Wanda in her groin. From there she sails on her without stopping. When Wanda is kO'd, Maya takes Wanda's jacket and gets hand pful of jewelry and goes back to her house to chill until police come to her house not knowing she has jewels and she lives as happy as any orphan can.

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#48 Posted by Subbat321 (251 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda?

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#49 Posted by King_Nomarch (2115 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe Wanda

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#50 Edited by IndomitableRegal (15651 posts) - - Show Bio
@forgerkrup said:

Another good point about her heels helping with the impact of foot stomp too! Do you think Wanda's boots would protect her from the pain of an attack like that? Do you think Maya should aim for a particular area for maximum impact?

She should probably stomp about an inch or so below where the straps are if possible, just in case the toes are reinforced (i.e. steel toed boots).