Prove Naruto didn't dodge Madara's light fang after it cut the Goudama Staff

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TheOriginalOne

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@azureus: Atleast you were not patronizing anyone. That is why I called him out.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus: Then show us an updated version of your claim represented using the manga as you did then.

Simple as that, if you are so sure you are right then show us where the initial trajectory of the beam was, and prove how that trajectory can cut the staff and the stripes at the same time. Don't forget Madara's head position in relation to his body by the way.

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Azureus

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@purpledeadragon:

That's the problem, purple. I can't give you a line without breaking some of the criteria. Doing so, would make it inaccurate. So what I can do is prove it in another way: showing the staff was indeed hit first, because that's what we're trying to get with trajectory.

There's no if I think I'm right, I am right. Anyone who saw that image can clearly see what would have been hit first just out of common sense. But now I have clearly outlined where the beam came from before it was swung. We can all see it.

Also, before you dismiss this as you have the rest, know two things: The image I outlined is 100% Kishimoto's work and you have no solution to what you are asking us to find. That said, how can you dismiss a fact because it's not what you want?

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Azureus

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus: If you can not give an image with out breaking the criteria then that means your description is inaccurate to the manga, in the other hand, I gave my line, it does not break the criteria, even if you keep saying it does.

1- My line is aiming to the left of Madara's body, matching the previous image. 2- My line is higher, aiming to where the movement lines are, the place where Naruto was. 3- My line  is the initial trajectory, meaning that after it was fired, it moved to Madara's right, cutting the stripes and then the staff.
1- My line is aiming to the left of Madara's body, matching the previous image. 2- My line is higher, aiming to where the movement lines are, the place where Naruto was. 3- My line is the initial trajectory, meaning that after it was fired, it moved to Madara's right, cutting the stripes and then the staff.

Now, I know you won't accept it and will give excuses, but I am the one backing up my claims with the panels, you admitted how you can not.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@theoriginalone: Can you see why I am dismissing their claims? they can not even depict their words using the manga, yet, they keep saying my line is inaccurate, do you see if it is inaccurate?

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Azureus

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@purpledeadragon:

...or it could mean I can't just slap info on an image and expect it to fit perfectly?

Your line makes no sense, why is it firing off to an area where Naruto's head is not? How does the beam magically miss the staff directly infront of it and fire right of it despite Madara firing straight? How can the manga show us the staff being split in the initial shot, yet you tell me it is not?

The speeedlines of the beam outright show us a part of where the beam was shot, yet you argue it is wrong.

So far your argument has been centered on me not giving the trajectory. You haven't addressed the points I have given for you line being wrong, and now we are dismissing what I pointed out in the image because it doesn't fit your head canon. That is an excuse. I wonder how you will deflect next.

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Azureus

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@purpledeadragon:

Now I will ask again, how can you dismiss a fact pointed out in the image for all to see because it's not what you want?

Kishimoto > your head canon.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus: Only words, yet again, if you can't even make a line that shows the initial trajectory, at least try to make a circle around the point where Naruto's head was. I think you can at least do that. BUT remember, Madara's body was not facing Naruto directly.

Let's see, again, the circle is where Naruto's head was in the previous panel, to the left of Madara's body (body, not head) Also, please don't ignore the movement lines that come from Naruto's collar/neck.
Let's see, again, the circle is where Naruto's head was in the previous panel, to the left of Madara's body (body, not head) Also, please don't ignore the movement lines that come from Naruto's collar/neck.

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Azureus

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@purpledeadragon:

Just the area of the head? I stand with the image I posted in the previous thread, days ago then. The red box is where Naruto's head was.

About ignoring the speed lines on Naruto''s collar and neck, elaborate on that, I'm curious. What do those lines tell you? How did you make sense of them?

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus: Ok, then, think, you see the speedlines showing where his shoulder, collar and elbow was, so, think, what was the position Naruto was in the previous panel? arms in front of himself, extended, What does that tell you?

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BatmanPlusJay

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@theoriginalone: I'm not making excuses. As I've said I'm on mobile, how the hell am i supposed to post a picture, let alone even make one? "Making excuses" if when you say something to get out of a situation. My situation is true and a reasonable explanation, and I even tried to compromise by saying to refer to his own pictures. But he doesn't want that, he wants me to show pictures even when I say to refer to his own since all of our pictures are all of the same scan. He's using the idea of pictures to hide from facts.

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TheOriginalOne

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#113  Edited By TheOriginalOne

@batmanplusjay: Dude, if you can't comply with what he is asking for, then why do you keep replying to him? It seems you think you can prove him wrong and that is perfectly acceptable but you keep replying to him over and over and keep playing around his question. You say you are on phone, ko cool but then stop replying till you can do what he wants you to do.

And you said he has been avoiding your points but you are doing the same thing to him. The only difference is that he didn't attack or patronize you. You did!

If I were to quote you: "B**** move to make"

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BatmanPlusJay

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#114  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@theoriginalone: "B**** move to make" is being dragged out way more than it should be. It's not even that big a deal. Get over it. You act like I broke the man's spirit.

I keep replying to him because I'm using facts *and as I said* I compromised and told him to just refer to his own since we are all using the exact same few pages, are we not? And he's rejecting a whole valid argument over some pictures that he could easily just refer to himself as he sees I am not able to do it. Even when I referenced Azureus' scan in one of his comments directly by number to make up for not being able to use pictures, lol, he still cries over pictures. I'm not going to keep arguing with him because he's already being confronted by Azureus and I truth that Azureus could prove him wrong without me, plus I just don't feel like being here anymore. And he isn't even holding up to his own rules, he's complaining about pictures and still responding to Azureus and still argued with me anyway even though we both have yet to show pictures ourselves. Completely contradicting what he really cares for and wants. I'll respond to him if I feel like it, and if it's that serious to him he could block me. Till then, if I feel like debunking some of his points with/without pictures, I'll do it.

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Azureus

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@azureus: Ok, then, think, you see the speedlines showing where his shoulder, collar and elbow was, so, think, what was the position Naruto was in the previous panel? arms in front of himself, extended, What does that tell you?

That Naruto darted from that direction real quick. Not that that's where parts of his body was....it doesn't even make sense if you look at the whole picture. They aren't even straight forward either, how are you making sense of them? I'm asking you to get sound answer, not to have you ask me return.

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TheOriginalOne

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#116  Edited By TheOriginalOne

@batmanplusjay: I never said you broke his spirit but it was still a B**** move to make. Worse of all, you didn't even tag him.

Azureus hasn't really debunked any of his points. You keep saying you will debunk his points but all his points come from that scan/picture. You just think he has because he seems to be on your side. Anyways, I am sure he will wait for you to do what you claim you can do.

That still doesn't change the fact that you acted like a child when things weren't going your way.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus said:
@purpledeadragon said:

@azureus: Ok, then, think, you see the speedlines showing where his shoulder, collar and elbow was, so, think, what was the position Naruto was in the previous panel? arms in front of himself, extended, What does that tell you?

That Naruto darted from that direction real quick. Not that that's where parts of his body was....it doesn't even make sense if you look at the whole picture. They aren't even straight forward either, how are you making sense of them? I'm asking you to get sound answer, not to have you ask me return.

If you say that that is the direction where Naruto moved from but not the place where he was, the same could be said for the movement lines you highlighted previously, isn't that being hypocrite? My point is this, if your arms are extended in front of you, and you dodge with your head first, Naruto's right arm would be the last part of his body that follow the body, try this, put your arms in the same position than Naruto, them dodge with your head and left shoulder to your left, you will notice how the arms that you had extended are left behind, and that is my point.

If Naruto's head were where you claim, there would be no reason for his right arm to be where it is, and you would ignore the movement lines that show where it was. (But if you say Naruto's head was in that square then I hope you realise the light fang couldn't have touch it if it where aimed to where the staff is)
If Naruto's head were where you claim, there would be no reason for his right arm to be where it is, and you would ignore the movement lines that show where it was. (But if you say Naruto's head was in that square then I hope you realise the light fang couldn't have touch it if it where aimed to where the staff is)
But in the line I made everything matches, Madara's head looking at his left in relation to his body, the movement lines from the collar and shoulder and Naruto being a little higher than Madara.
But in the line I made everything matches, Madara's head looking at his left in relation to his body, the movement lines from the collar and shoulder and Naruto being a little higher than Madara.

So, if you can't still see what I mean, and you insist in your claims with out depicting them using the manga, then I will just stop replying to you, I only ask that if you are going to claim you are winning the debate, at least stop saying all your claims are right without depicting them in the manga.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#118  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@theoriginalone:

Nice try trying to use my quote against me, except you didn't even use it correctly. Try again. And I did tag him, it just didn't work for some reason, but if you're trying to make some sort of point with that as if I was scared to tag him or whatever it was you wanted to imagine, I have to ask, are you trying to act like a child? Lmao trying to test me to see if I'll respond to him again saying that and this time not mess up the tag to prove something to you? First off, no, it's childish, and secondly I don't need to prove anything to you.

Azureus has debunked his points. You simply don't think he has since Purple is on your side. I don't even know why you used that as an argument as if it couldn't apply to you.

Act like I child? Oh goodness I said he made a B**** move! Whatever shall the world do? So much for calling me child when you're simply sensitive, my insult wasn't even anything worth pointing out, I'm sure even Purple skipped over it, but no, of course someone has to cry over a little insult on the internet. Get over yourself. You're making it a bigger deal than it is. He doesn't need you wiping his butt for him. Move on.

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TheOriginalOne

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@batmanplusjay: Go check again, just because you claimed you tagged him means nothing. Now you are making up excuses to justify what you did. Hmm, how am I being a child on calling you out on your bullshit? Keep making excuses. No one said you have something to prove to me. And who said I am on anyone's side? Making assumptions again? You seem to be good at that.

Azureus has done nothing. He keeps repeating the same stuff and when asked to explain himself properly, fails to do so. Something you keep doing as well. You can keep crying " I am on my phone" to dodge his question. Tell me again how you are "o

One more time, tell me again how you are "on your phone"!

You said and I quote:"PurpleDeaDragon using a poor excuse to not address points debunking his claims....", isn't that what you have been doing as well? "I am on my phone" is all you keep saying. At least he provided his side of the argument with panel proof, you on the other hand, NO. In fact, he even asked you to do what he was doing to prove him wrong. Heck, he was giving you an option to prove him wrong but you kept ignoring it and made excuses.

After you got called out for that statement about you doing the exact same thing he was doing (according to only you), you got defensive and started making up more excuses.

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DeathandGrim

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PurpleDeaDragon

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Thedarkpaladin

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#122  Edited By Thedarkpaladin
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BatmanPlusJay

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@theoriginalone: Except I did tag him, it just messed up, as I said. What's your point anyway? "You messed up when tagging him that makes you a B****"? I can't see any other crappier argument you could make by bringing up I didn't tag him, so that must be it. And justify it? LMAO When?? I never tried to justify what I did because it's not as big a deal you're making it out to be. I don't need to justify it. I said he made a B**** move. Oh well. Get over it. You're being a child by doing the exact same thing you're calling me out for and/or trying to test me to see if I'd respond to him again randomly saying "B**** move to make". So much for portending to call me out when you're doing the exact same thing. You're a child *and* a hypocrite. I'm good at making assumptions? ?? Bruh what does that even mean? It's one thing if you've exposed me for always assuming things and you said that, but no, you're just randomly saying it. And no, it isn't an assumption, he literally tagged you in his #99 comment "Check this out", and he tagged you in his #106 comment. So you're saying he just randomly tags you in for s**ts and giggles? So you're saying you're not on his side despite that? Ok, so you're a liar, hypocrite, and a child. You're doing great in this debate. And it's worse for you because you're making a big deal over nothing. I said it. Get over it. You act like I broke his spirit.

Purple hasn't done anything but dismiss people who have debunked his claims because we have not shown pictures despite Azureus showing a scan earlier. I even referred to it. But purple makes excuses and ignores it. And I never said I was on a phone. Idiot...??? I said im on mobile because I'm on a tablet. Your comprehension skills can't get worse, you'd compete with a brick in a spelling bee and still lose ?? lmao but to get back on track, I only told Purple I was on mobile once of twice. I never used it as an excuse because it is a good reason, and I even compromised but purple yet again dismisses it. He's definitely the one ignoring points using an excuse to hide behind. And you're just a sensitive wanna-be debater. What else you gonna cry about next? I wanna know, go ahead and cry about something else. You're like a 5th grader.

"Isn't that what you've been doing as we'll?" Umm, no? ? I addressed every point he made and I compromised to use other scans. I did my part, but Purple wanted to dismiss it hiding behind an excuse of pictures. He gave me the option to prove him wrong? You can't be this dumb. I don't even know why you're following me bruh, unfollow and block me after this ?? You're terrible. We're in a debate, going by that logic, I as well gave him the option to prove me wrong just by debating with him. I proved him wrong and addressed every point he made, matter of fact, Purple even responded to one of my comments that were several paragraphs long with like a sentence. ?? That's not avoiding to you? Look at the double standards! Lmao

I'm not being defensive I'm just stating my case after you falsely accuse me. But it's alright. After you pretended to call me out, Azureus responded to you and shut you down and you avoided his comment with "Well he patronized so... That's why I did it" And that contradicts your points. You didn't call me out for that, you called me out because you got into your emotions that I said your boyfriend made a B**** move.

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Watertaco

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#124  Edited By Watertaco

@thedarkpaladin said:

Interesting. But I'm just here for the comments. Lol

What in the actual f*ck is this thread?

I stumble in, expecting the usual arguments, but this time I'm looking at a side diagram of a man for some reason. I get the feeling I shouldn't even waste my time reading (and digesting) this.

Hope you brought some popcorn paladin.

@batmanplusjay: I have no stakes in this war, but can you explain to me why the emojis are necessary?

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Thedarkpaladin

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@watertaco: I might have to bring the Whiskey for this thread, my man.

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Watertaco

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@thedarkpaladin: I'm a fan of Crown Royal myself. Usually I'm stuck with Fireball though. That stuff is.....not good.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#127  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@watertaco: Lol I mean I'll either use a thousand LOL's or a thousand emotes. Either way they both emphasize I'm laughing or it's funny.

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Azureus

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#128  Edited By Azureus

@purpledeadragon:

Hmm? If the speedlines on the beam didn't extend as far as the lines show, then the beam won't be anywhere near Naruto. It's strange enough to use the lines from his neck and upper torso to see where Naruto's head is. But even stranger is that we're gonna ignore the speedlines on Naruto's head and ignore where the bands are leading to for your circle to make sense in just one aspect. I see no hypocrisy there, I even asked for you to show me how you made sense of this part only to have the same question shot back at me.

"If Naruto's head were where you claim, there would be no reason for his right arm to be where it is"

Well of course, where the right arm is now wouldn't match up with where the head was. He moved nearly his entire body, so of course it wouldn't. You should known this already.

"...and you would ignore the movement lines that show where it was."

But we ignore all the other lines that say otherwise...right?

"But if you say Naruto's head was in that square then I hope you realise the light fang couldn't have touch it if it where aimed to where the staff is)."

Bruh, I have explained this so many times...how would it not. I have used points, numbers and paragraphs to just explain this one part. Refer to those.

Now you mentioned how everything matches in your circle. How? I see so many contradictions, I don't know where to begin. I fail to see how a beam fired directly at a staff magically misses it.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@azureus: Ok, I am done with this, at this point we are just running circles. Our debate devolved into this:

-I made a line where the the original trajectory of the beam was according to what I observed in the manga panels.

-You say my line does not make sense and contradicts what is depicted in the panels.

-Then I ask you to prove me wrong and using the manga draw a line to show where the original trajectory of the beam was.

-You say you can't make a line that make sense because it is impossible for you to do so with out breaking some of the parameters you claim are truth.

-Then I try and make the line for you following what you describe only with words.

-You say what I do is wrong because I am debunking a line that I made myself, when I had to do so as you can't provide a graphical depiction of what you describe.

-Once again I show you my line and explain my points again in hope you can see how what I draw does not contradict the manga panels.

-You say I am wrong and start describing your impossible trajectory again.

-Then I ask you again to prove me wrong and draw the correct trajectory of the beam using the manga panels.

The cycle is repeated over and over again. So I will stop here, believe what you want, but at least admit you couldn't depict what you say using the manga when you start claiming you were the one debunking my points.

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StormKing1221

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I'm thoroughly suprised that a debate over a single feat could last 2 years with neither side wavering in the slightest.

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Azureus

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#131  Edited By Azureus

@purpledeadragon:

Well for one, it would help if you actually responded to arguments people actually presented. That way there would be no repetition.

Secondly, I'm under no pressure to prove anything anymore, the manga already shows us the beam hit the staff first. I'll admit I was unable to give the trajectory, but it would be false to claim I didn't use the manga. Rather, I didn't use the Manga how you wanted me to use it.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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#132  Edited By PurpleDeaDragon

@azureus: Well, we both can claim we are right, but claiming the victory in an argument is not how things work, I did used the manga and showed everything I said, that was the only thing I asked from you, but If you don't want to do it then let's just agree to disagree, and if we even find ourselves in a Vs thread where this becomes relevant again, we will see which arguments are better.

Edit: But let's just do this last one thing, here is where you said the head was, and this is the trajectory of the beam as Madara's head was to the left of his own body.

No Caption Provided

But I guess that's not how you would have done it, too bad you won't correct me with your own version as it is an impossibility.

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TheOriginalOne

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@batmanplusjay: You have no proof you tagged him and are only claiming this NOW because you got called out. More and more excuses.

Lol child, did you even see what he tagged me about in that 99 comment? He was tagging me about Azeurus, not you moron. He didn't even get to what you said. Why are you talking so much shit?

In his 106 comments, he was still talking about something else, not the garbage you said. If he had read your comment, why would he not tag you personally by tagging you directly? Again, this seems to be a common occurrence with you - ASSUME, ASSUME ASSUME AND WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT, LIE.

Maybe he saw my comments after to azeurus because they were the recent ones. Have you ever thought about that child?

Lol, seems like you have dementia now. Everything Azeurus provided has been disproved by pictures. Infact, he was getting whooped so bad, he even stated ignoring Purple's request and stopped providing pictures. But at least he did, what have you done child? Make excuses over and over, try to make it seem like purple was not addressing your points when infact, it was YOU who was running away and then you got so desperate that you started to attack him personally.

And keep up with the phone excuse, it is a good "defense" when you can't prove shit.

How is this phone shit a good reason child? How many days has it been since you said that? And it wasn't even this garbage phone excuse that started this, it was your ability to prove anything and then attack him personally after he was consistently destroying you. You have done NOTHING in this debate but act like a child.

So lets recap, you couldn't meet his demands, you started to attack him first and now you are crying about being a victim. Not only are you a child but a crying little wuss as well.

Pathetic little excuse of a picture? You moron, that pic is what started this all. And how can it be pathetic when it is the most important proof from the manga. How can you be this ignorant? HOW? Compromised to use other scans? You haven't even proved a single scan and have been riding of what Azereus has been doing.

"proved him wrong, proved him wrong" - just not one scan was provided, copy pasted what someone else said and when asked to provide proof, started to cry about being on the phone. After that failed to work, started to attack the user personally.

Hmmm, sure child, whatever makes you sleep at night.

He shut me down? Did you not read the only thing he could say to me was this - "Alright. Just wanted to give out a bit more context."

This seems like he destroyed me? Child, come one now, I know you are smarter than this. Slow, sure but I know you re not this retarded.

I called you out because you made a pu**y move on someone who was killing you in a debate. And all of this happened because of your own incompetence of not being able to follow instructions.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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#135  Edited By PurpleDeaDragon

@theoriginalone@batmanplusjay: Ok, Please stop this already, this is getting annoying, if you want to keep this rude discussion do it elsewhere. And about @azureus's pictures, he posted 1, I then quoted another picture he posted in a previous thread and it contradicts what he says.

Azureus said that the speedlines show exactly where the beam hit first.
Azureus said that the speedlines show exactly where the beam hit first.
And then he said that Naruto's head was initially in that red square.
And then he said that Naruto's head was initially in that red square.

In both instances he ignores how Madara's head was pointing at the left of his body like in the previous picture, his trajectory doesn't even touches the stripes nor the red square where he says Naruto's head was and ignores the speedlines from Naruto's collar and right arm. So, stop with the nonsense about being right when your arguments don't even match each other.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I haven't had the need to change my argument as him as I am sure of what I said, and the manga panels confirms that what I say is truth.

1- Madara was facing directly to Naruto's head, but his body was not, as I already explained, so his face was to his left in relation to his body.

2- Naruto's position was a bit higher than Madara's and with his arms extended in front of him, meaning that his upper body was in that red circle, we can even follow the movement lines from the collar of his jacket.

3- The sound bubble points to the place where the Goudama staff was cut by the light fang, and that place was not the initial trajectory of the beam as the presented evidence shows, hell, the stripes in Naruto's head band were cut first, meaning Naruto had already ducked before his staff were cut.

I can easily depict what I say using the two manga panels, something you can't do, as you are wrong but are too stubborn to admit it.
I can easily depict what I say using the two manga panels, something you can't do, as you are wrong but are too stubborn to admit it.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#136  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@purpledeadragon: Ok. But I already addressed this. Madara's head was to the left of him *in the previous panel.* In the panel you just showed, here:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307227/6110890-6091442-movement%2Blines.png

His whole body was facing toward Naruto meaning he changed positions between panels, and that is evident when we see his head facing over his right arm. If he was in the same position as the last panel, then his head would have went from a far left position to a neutral position(head aligned with his chest, not his right arm) during the slice from left to right.

And I'm sure you explained this before but I'll ask again anyway, why does Madaras position matter? At the end of the day he would still slice from and to the same points.

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zoldycklogic

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@purpledeadragon: hey, That was an awesome thread, I just saw it now, and first I was glad because this agrees with my beliefs that Naruto is not faster than light, He is Just faster than Madara's head. Then I noticed something I only recently started noticing after my many encounters with @nemesisreloaded on CV. It's the angle. This might either prove your point, or it can prove that this picture indeed shows that the staff was the first thing to be cut by the light fang. I haven't read all the comments so maybe I wasn't the first to address this issue.

Naruto was extending his arms as he strikes Madara's clone, Naruto at this point has a height of 166 cms, Proportionally, a 165.6cm male should have a forearm of 26 cm. Scaling from the panel you provided we can say that :

  • Naruto's forearm's length = X= 26cm
  • The distance between naruto's staff and the cut ends of his headbands is 2.7X = 70.2 cms.
  • We, the readers, are not standing collinearly with Naruto, his staff, and Madara.

Now it will take some time estimate the angle and the distance which we are seeing the action from. So it can either prove you right, or it can prove you wrong.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@batmanplusjay: man, to be honest I won't answer to you, you agree with Azureus so I will just wait for his reply, IF it contains prove that support his claims, if not I will just ignore him too.

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Thedarkpaladin

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Classy debate here.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@purpledeadragon: Lol see, that right there is what I'm talking about. Literally disregarding other people's arguments without good reason. At first it was because of a picture. Then I provide a picture, now it's for no apparent reason.

I've used that argument twice now, the "Madaras body switch positions in between panels" argument, and you've managed to ignore it both times. Yet, you're "winning". You're funny as hell, I'll give you that.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#141  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@theoriginalone:

(I'm reposting this because I'm not trying to get banned from using too much profanity)

The proof is in the comment. #94. You literally see his name right there in front of you. Idiot.

You missed the whole point of the comment. It doesn't matter who he was talking to. You made the argument "of course you would think he is winning you're on his side". Then I pointed out that the same could be said for you and purple. And I pointed out multiple instances where he tags you, in #106 he talks to you about us, asking if you could see if were wrong. He literally calls upon you as an ally a few times. That's my point that you could also be bias toward Purple and you missed it entirely despite you being the one to bring up the argument. Lol you stay taking L's.

"Maybe he saw my comments after to Azureus because they were the most recent ones. Have you ever thought about that child?"

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I don't know which part of my comment you're even referring to. Unlike me, you're on computer right? Use quotes and do a better job debating. But I think that's too much to ask of you.

Azureus showed pictures and he's beating Purple. Just because purple can throw pictures into an argument doesn't make him right lmao. Lol, What have I done? Referenced pictures for him to look at since I'm on mobile, I compromised and worked around it. But what have you done besides sit on the sidelines and do nothing, pretending you are of some value in the argument when you're honestly not? Lmao stop it. You sound stupid again. Fact is, purple wasn't addressing my points. He responded to one of my several paragraph long comments with a sentence. LOL And this is the guy you claim to address every point? You're getting bodied kid. ??

Funny how you talk about me not proving anything, meanwhile I'm destroying you right now. You're like an overly sensitive 14 year old. Your hormones are probably all over the place, it would certainly explain your crappy emotional excuse of an "argument". Making the biggest deal out of a simple comment that even Purple ignored. Get your life together.

It's a good reason because on mobile you don't have the same tools someone on computer has, you're a lost cause..?? It's so basic yet you couldn't even piece it together. You probably don't even know what history class is, you still remember it as social studies. You're still stuck in elementary school aren't you? ?? You haven't brought anything to the table except your emotional, useless garbage responses. That's a B**** move to make. Lmaoo

Let's recap. You've been nowhere, doing nothing and have been no one, just spectating and being called upon by Purple like once in a blue moon, I use an insult and you go ballistic over it. ? I mean, it's a good strategy if you want to be relevant. Starting an argument over something so petty. But I guess it works. Look at you now. Responding regularly, if you want attention that badly why don't you do something with your life? Get over it, I said it, get used to it. Stop being a punk. "Oh god! BatmanplusJay said Purple made a B**** move! How can the world move on??" Grow up. I don't even know how you've made it this far into the world as sensitive as you are.

Uhhhh nah. You started this. Crying, whining, and wiping Purple's a*s all because I said something that wasn't even worth a second glance. Purple saw that and ignored it, you saw it and lost your mind. You felt like you had to wipe the dust off of his shoulders for him, and cause a scene and a meaningless argument while doing it. Almost like you're his dog. Me not providing scans was purple's issue since he didn't want to accept references for whatever reason, an issue you weren't even apart of. Lmao, so don't act like you were apart of anything in this thread except your obnoxious outbursts because of a simple insult.

"The only thing he said to me was this - 'Alright. Just wanted to give you some more context'"

Look at you, lying and taking things out of context. You're worse than pathetic. Azureus didn't say that to you until after you made a punk move and backed down in #101 "at least you werent patronizing anyone. That's why I called him out". Because before that, Azureus bodied your dumb ass. ?? He dismantled your argument point by point and left with the note of "If anyone is making excuses, it isn't BatmanPlusJay.". All you did was respond with "yeah well uh I wasn't talking to you I'm sorry". Take a hike.

"Slow. But I know you re not retarded"

It seems like my hunch that you're still in elementary school taking social studies is correct. You didn't even spell "you're" correctly. Pitiful. No one should suffer the brain damage you do.

You got destroyed again. Stop trying. You're even being destroyed in another thread of Naruto vs some fire guy, because you pretend to know about physics. Instead you look like a monkey taking a math class.

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NemesisReloaded

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@zoldycklogic: The main difference I've found between manga and western comics is that western comics generally draws your attention to the photo-like still image as a snap-shot that provides a cool moment in time, and manga generally is happy to let go of that and draw your attention to movement. The main way manga artists do that is by starting the first movement in the part of the frame you will look first. So in Japanese manga you will look to the top right.

  • The first thing you see is Madara's left hand, leading down from that are movement lines that lead you to Naruto's head and shoulders.
  • The second thing is Naruto's bandana being cut. You can tell because while Naruto's aura does release a flame every so often, there is one section for each end of the bandana, each section is directly in line with each end of the bandana and the parts still attached to Naruto's head have the edges swept to the bottom left of the panel - the general direction of all movement in this picture. They follow the line of the third set of movement lines.
  • The third event is the staff getting cut, which comes with a sound effect and the two previously joined ends of now two sections of staff create an arrow pointing in the direction of the thing that cut them apart.
  • Fourth after following the white movement lines that originate in the region of the previous two events, you see they lead to the Light Fang beam so you know what Naruto dodged and what cut the bandana and the staff.
  • Lastly and fifth from the Light Fang beam, you follow the beam up to Madara's face, which has turned to his right. At this point you see the background lines that make the panel feel exciting actually merge on to Madara's face and you realise that the direction of those background lines is actually the same direction that Madara turns his head and thus is the primary movement of the panel.

It might seem counter-intuitive to show a reader what was cut before showing what did the cutting, but as I said before, what makes manga different from western comics is movement, getting that feeling of sweeping speed across to the reader is more important for this panel than what caused it. If the beam and Madara had your attention first, the panel wouldn't feel fast and would instead feel like a snapshot of a thing that happened. In addition to the readers eyes being pulled toward the bottom left of the panel, following the motion, the name of the jutsu that Madara uses is likely the last thing you'll read, even though in the anime its the first thing you'll get. And that is very deliberate in the manga, the movement comes first and the details come later.

Just from an artistic standpoint, @purpledeadragon is 100% correct, Naruto dodged before the staff was cut, with the main observing direction (red) going smoothly and directly from the top right corner to the bottom left, and the secondary observing direction (blue) drawing your attention up from the bottom left to tell you the cause of the action.

No Caption Provided

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@nemesisreloaded: Thank you! finally someone uses the manga panels to depict what they say, I was losing hope. You are really good with that by the way. Also, did you check how in the previous panel Madara's head was the one facing Naruto, but his body was not doing the same, in relation to his body, his head was to his own left, matching the second panel you posted.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@purpledeadragon: Lol see, that right there is what I'm talking about. Literally disregarding other people's arguments without good reason. At first it was because of a picture. Then I provide a picture, now it's for no apparent reason.

I've used that argument twice now, the "Madaras body switch positions in between panels" argument, and you've managed to ignore it both times. Yet, you're "winning". You're funny as hell, I'll give you that.

Ok, I will tell you why I am ignoring you, because you've had several days to get on a computer and do what I asked from you, just draw the initial path of the beam according to what you describe, but You haven't done anything but claim @azureus has been beating me, when the only 2 panels he provided contradict each other. So, if you only have words that don't match the manga I won't waste my time on you as you are just here to back up Azureus.

And about your argument, that is what you think that happened, but you don't have any evidence to back up your claim of Madara rotating his body to the left to match his head, until you bring something like that, yours is jut an assumption, I've only described the info we got from the panels, I didn't assume anything that wasn't there. But if you insist on that, let me remind you how you said that the anime just added more context, well, in the anime Madara's body was actually moving to his right, not his left, the opposite of what you are saying.

No Caption Provided

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NemesisReloaded

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@nemesisreloaded: Thank you! finally someone uses the manga panels to depict what they say, I was losing hope. You are really good with that by the way. Also, did you check how in the previous panel Madara's head was the one facing Naruto, but his body was not doing the same, in relation to his body, his head was to his own left, matching the second panel you posted.

Yes, Madara is clearly facing Naruto and looking him in the eye while his body is turned slightly to his right, or as you say, his head is facing to his left of his body. Then in the 2nd panel Madara has twisted his body while sweeping his head to his right and lifted his left arm. I absolutely 100% agree with everything you said in the OP. For me, this is the first time I've seen a debate like this about what happened first on a manga page. It was interesting, and well done using it to prove the anime wrong.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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@nemesisreloaded: Thank you, I know people will keep claiming Naruto is light speed or that he can fight with light speed opponents, but at least this thread exists to counter their claims.

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Azureus

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@purpledeadragon:

Well for one, claiming you are right, is claiming victory, you're just being passive or less vocal about it. There's no reason to dismiss my arguments because they're words and not pictures, even though I have picture showing where the beam first hit. But I'll leave it at that here.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@purpledeadragon: I don't have proof of him turning? The proof is right here as I've shown:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307227/6110890-6091442-movement%2Blines.png

His head is turning right and is over his right arm. If he was not facing Naruto then, *as I have said before,* his head would have went from the far left to facing over his torso/chest but it was not since his head is facing OVER HIS RIGHT ARM. How is that not proof? I'm even giving you a scan to look at Madaras body with.

And honestly, I could simply argue that the anime is based off of the manga and that they animated the two panels correctly since there really is no proof that they did it wrong, the only slight difference is Naruto's hand and stripes weren't shown to be cut. Canon > Theories.

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PurpleDeaDragon

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#149  Edited By PurpleDeaDragon

@azureusSo... You didn't address your own scans contradicting each other and you (@batmanplusjay) just posted a link to my own image to somehow support your argument that is based on Azureus´s... welp, seems like I won't be wasting my time anymore, time to keep playing Shadow of War.

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Azureus

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@batmanplusjay: @theoriginalone: @purpledeadragon:

Now, this here is an excellent example of why you don't dismiss arguments.

...he posted 1, I then quoted another picture he posted in a previous thread and it contradicts what he says.

Well of course it contradicts what I say now, the image was wrong as we have already established for weeks now. I have been arguing under the notion it was wrong, you were arguing under the notion it was wrong, where does it leave it us, then?

Azureus said that the speedlines show exactly where the beam hit first.
Yes, that's right.
In both instances...
One instance is literally all Kishimoto's work, you can't dismiss it.
he ignores how Madara's head was pointing at the left of his body...
I really don't see how you can say that with the image right there. We have basically have a front-view perspective of Madara, and Naruto is only beginning to block Madara right from our view meaning whatever direction Naruto came from is Madara's left. By extension, anything that is not blocking Madara from our view is not directly infront of him. The staff, Naruto's entire body, and stripes are still to Madara's left. That said, you clearly haven't been listening, if you believe what you said above.
like in the previous picture, his trajectory...
Which we've already established is wrong, but is still being used as an example because...?
...and ignores the speedlines from Naruto's collar and right arm.
Because Naruto's headbands indicate where Naruto's head is. Think back to what I said about trailing behind and air drag. We would expect that his headbands would trail behind him. They would not only always point to where he came from, but if the timeframe is short enough, they would be exactly where he used to be. For the same beam that was aimed at Naruto's head to hit the headband stripes, it would be common sense to deduce they happened to be where Naruto's head was.

I haven't had the need to change my argument as him as I am sure of what I said...

Says a lot then. If you don't revise your arguments based on new information, you can never be correct.

and the manga panels confirms that what I say is truth.

and that the staff was hit first...falsifying every argument you made and fortifying the anime further...

No Caption Provided

So, stop with the nonsense about being right when your arguments don't even match each other.

They do. Don't pretend to understand our arguments when you have dismissed them one after the other.

1- Madara was facing directly to Naruto's head, but his body was not, as I already explained, so his face was to his left in relation to his body.

No one's in disagreement.

2- Naruto's position was a bit higher than Madara's and with his arms extended in front of him, meaning that his upper body was in that red circle, we can even follow the movement lines from the collar of his jacket.

So now, you ignored the role his stripes play, ignoring a speed-line coming out of his head to follow a speed line from his collar and shoulder to find the head...and you aren't perplexed by your contradictory behaviour yet?

3- The sound bubble points to the place where the Goudama staff was cut by the light fang, and that place was not the initial trajectory of the beam as the presented evidence shows.

We literally have motion lines from the beam telling us the movement started at where the rod was cut, and you continue to tell us otherwise?

hell, the stripes in Naruto's head band were cut first,

This makes zero sense.

meaning Naruto had already ducked before his staff were cut.

HOW??? How did you come to this conclusion, without dismissing the very manga you hold in high esteem?
I can easily depict what I say using the two manga panels..
Well it's not hard to create a false image.
something you can't do, as you are wrong but are too stubborn to admit it.
I have proven my point in other ways. I haven't been proven wrong, rather met with excuses.