"Primal" UI Omen seems a little stronger than MUI?

It seems Goku was slightly stronger than Gas in this state. Perhaps the emotional power boost of a Saiyan really elevated his Omen form to its truest potential.

The only downside is that its self-defense and auto-dodging is weaker/less accurate than MUI.

Thots?

It's not necessarily more powerful.

Just more efficient with his new mindset.

Apparently before, he wasn't able to really use MUI effectively due to his previous way of thinking and not completely calming his mind and heart (like the angels).

He is pretty much upgrading his omen level based off of his saiyan instincts and emotions here

This in turn puts him at a level above Gas

Wait so Goku basically learned to use Broly’s primal amp along with UI?

Thats kind of awesome lol

@pandalumina:

I wouldn't necessarily say upgrade his omen level, but just a more fitting transformation for his current mental state. He used an inferior transformation, but one that better suits his current mindset. I don't think power wise, it's any different than his use against Prime Moro and Jiren.

MUI is still by far the strongest transformation that Goku has, just happens that Goku is unable to use it to its full potential in this arc.

This also shows that MUI Goku against Moro-73 was the strongest iteration of Goku that we have seen to this date. Unlike the current arc, he was able to access MUI while in a calm and tranquil mindset, with Beerus noting that his style was angelic, perfect, and constantly refining.

@takenstew22:

Thot's?

You tagged them just for them to be called thots?

Also, there is no such thing called "emotional power boost".

Goku's mental state is emotional at this time. He did not get any powerups from it.

If anything it hindered him, because he was unable to use MUI properly. Therefore he used an inferior transformation instead that enables him to use his emotions better.

@noobsnowman: I mean you can easily say that he's channeling his inner saiyan instincts here to make his Omen stronger

This was hinted at with the Bardock picture and all that, but ig I agree that it's not an "upgrade" per say.

Just a boost

This confirms that UE is not on MUI's level though as suspected

Is it sad that DBHeroes does a better job with MUI Than Toyotaro and Toriyama? Pretty clear they have no direction in where to take the form next. Mui is suppose to be the perfected next evolution of UI Omen

and I'm getting tired of the DBS's Manga making up bs excuse to use older/weaker forms and having them outperform their current more evolved form. it seems wishy washy.

like what is point of MUI if you can use UI Omen and then surpass MUI entirely with mere a rage boost?

and why is Ultra Ego so freakin useless.

@pandalumina: I don't think the Bardock picture hinted anything.

It just gave Gas PTSD, given the similar resemblance in appearance between both Goku and Bardock. Hence his startled reaction to it.

EDIT: Goku also was in touch with his emotions during his fight against Moro. When Moro gained the upper hand, Goku lost his calm and tried to channel more power into the form in a futile attempt to defeat the wizard, but ultimately failed. I think it goes to show that the only difference is that Goku can use his emotions while using Sign to its fullest potential, but not in MUI.

@noobsnowman: The picture is clearly a reference to Bardock overcoming Gas with Saiyan Instincts. Lol

But if you believe differently then that's ok 😊

Saiyan Primal Instincts + Mastered Ultra Instinct is very effing dangerous.

And why the Hel am I a thot?

you are correct

Not really more powerful but more efficient

DBH is better than Super in story telling

@pandalumina:

The picture is clearly a reference to Bardock overcoming Gas with Saiyan Instincts. Lol

True. I missed that.

That being said, I think the Moro fight still shows the difference between the two transformations.

And I think we can agree that regardless of whether Goku is in touch of his emotions or not in Sign, it isnt anywhere close to MUI at it's peak, aka Goku's fight against Moro-73.

Yupp

They pretty much spelled it out for us

UI Omen is just the gateway, but is strong and can be boosted through emotion

Perfected UI is the complete form with both a calm heart and a calm mind

Omen is different in that you can absolutely use emotion, but not when you're trying to effectively use silver hair. Hence "my heart's not calm" comment from Goku. So he's using this form to his advantage in that sense. People also forget that the UI form itself scales to the opponent that they're fighting. There is no set "limit" or power level when it comes to it. The only disadvantage would be the massive stamina drain since it's not complete 🤔

Thots = thoughts smh.

i wouldn't go that far but they definitely understand not to waste a form.

MUI in Heroes is still CC Goku's trump card who full potential has yet to realize. But in the DBS Manga it gets fodderized literally the very next arc after it's finally mastered and is now being outperformed by UE and UI omen.

between this and the Beerus retcon it kinda feels like actually not getting stronger anymore.

I feel like would have been better if he somehow awaken a new angelic ability with MUI than this.

loved it

monthly thing sucks ... but we still have DBH :)

Factoring in that it’s not intended to be all that good just promotional material, they have genuinely interesting plot points (not beings wishing they were stronger than the main cast), can have Gohan have cool moments calling back his prime like against Bojack(manga version), and like you said MUI is respected.

Heroes has its faults and is wacky but taking into consideration what it is intended to be, I actually do find it more enjoyable than Super(outside of the anime ToP and DBS Broly).

you know what. fair point. I can respect that and Honestly can't fault you. for the last few chapter DBS manga have been extremely mediocre in terms of plot, pacing, and action.

It weird to see goku use a mouth ki blast which reminds me of nappa lol.

How has chapter 79 still not come out yet? 😐

Edit - went to the wrong website. Already read up to 85 before.

The gap between Omen and MUI is large. Even if Goku wasn’t 100% calm and tranquil against Gas, does that make his “Distracted“ MUI power lower than his Omen ?

Since MUI Goku wasn’t using the full brunt of his power we can see above his Instinct of dodging without thinking is a good chunk of wth here above ^ MUI was useless against Gas who beat MUI Goku + UE Vegeta at same time, yet this new version of Omen UI is stalemating same Gas that 2v1 MUI and UE. So there must be a gap of power between Silver Hair MUI and Silver Hair Non Calm MUI

Going off end of Moro arc Omen UI Goku was comparable to a holding back Moro before he absorbed 73. Moro full power pre 73 absorption beat Omen.

Yet Moro Arc MUI is > Post Merus Moro > Post 73 Absorbed Moro > Full Power Moro Pre 73 Absorbed > Moro Arc UI Omen Goku

This.....makes negative sense. It's really not that hard to make sense while writing a story.

Kinda weird but Omen was primal when it debuted in the anime. It's not completely out of nowhere.

Well that's what it says. On a side note, Vegeta is always being treated like dirt. Sad to see.

It sounds cool

This really is getting ridiculous. They have wasted so much time on a fight who is probably the most boring villain of all of dragon ball, and just keep giving them random power ups in a fight that is pretty visually boring.

I don't know what to think tbh. All I know is, UE is ass.

I hate to say this but I agree. This is the first time since Super 17 in GT that i seen a Dragon ball Villain with so little going for him.

No interesting backstory,

mediocre design,

Uninteresting Personality,

mediocre abilities(weapon creation was kinda cool at first but he's not really creative with it and abuses it to the point were get becomes uninteresting. )

and How he acquire his powers is just the laziest thing ever.

Goku told Jiren that he was calm and rid of unnecessary emotions while in UI Sign, it's not that different from Perfected UI at all in terms of mindset. This new revelation that Goku can put his emotions into work while in UI Sign and make it result in power greater than a PUI nerfed by emotion (when UI Sign shouldn't be any less restricted by emotion) is complete nonsense.

Smh your lucky nobody filed an insult complaint.

Why have Goku unlock MUI if now there are making excuses to weaken it? First was low stamina/accuracy lose, now Goku can't maintain right mindset for it. In Super Hero Goku doesn't even seem to be able to go UI at will yet. Toyotaro wrote himself into a corner by making MUI come back so quick.

And yeah, I'm tired of this arc too, Gas might be the most bland villain in DB history and nothing of value is happening in terms of story, it's just a fight after fight after fight every month with Goku and Vegeta one upping each other, it's boring.

True MUI Stomps this BS Form.

Merus/Whis suggested Goku can get to Angel tier with MUI as no mortal can beat him if he truly master it like the Angels or at Least Meerus

PUI is only Temporally Stronger.

Mfs here saying UE is ass or MUI was always stronger when it was shown equal to the silver hair MUI just before this. Goku is just bringing his UI to the next level. Vegeta can do the same with hakai. Not to mention Goku's had UI for a while now while Vegeta only got hakai just recently. Vegeta always catches up to Goku. Just give him some time

@elenwood:

It is ass though. The moment UE even got to a point where it was going to do anything, Vegeta passed out. Until Vegeta upgrades it as you say, then it's being called the ultra jobbing technique.

goku just did what whis told him to do, he's putting something of himself on the technique, he can't use Ui like angels do because he's not an angel, just like yin yang, while whis Ui is all white, goku's Ui will have the little dark piece on it, vegeta can do the same with UE, being careless and taking hits for nothing is not vegeta's way of fighting, so if UE is the dark, vegeta will have a white piece on it.

Issue is just last arc Goku tried to use UI omen and just powering up with it against Moro and it wasn't enough. now he's doing the same thing again but this time it's not only working but it's outperforming MUI.

then Again MUI have been complete garbage this whole arc .bad enough enough that they tact on this 'it gets weaker the longer it's in use"BS but then it get's oneshot by Granolah and outdone by UE and Omen. Amazing how we just spent a whole arc watching Goku learn to use MUI at will only for toyo to go out of his way to make the form look like trash the very next arc. Like what's the point?

To me goku taking sometime to master UI is fine since even the gods themselves have not mastered it. So, goku struggling with it for little bit is fair.

Okay, just read recent chapter and am caught up now.

Don't understand logic behind Goku's UI Omen performing better at all.

Until people start to realize that technique and fighting ability take precedence over raw power in Super, then they will forever be stuck with the old mindset that dominated Z powerscaling. I can understand how this wouldn't make sense to most people in that case 🤔

Except that in his fight against Jiren, he was actually on his way to unlocking MUI for the very first time, which was why moments after that, he was able to unlock MUI for the first time. Just because he was calm at the time does not mean he needed to be calm to use UI Omen.

Against Moro, he wasn't anywhere close to unlocking MUI until Merus' erasure, but we saw him being able to use his emotions freely in UI Omen. This is evidence that being calm and tranquil is not needed to use UI Omen.

It's not difficult to understand that in UI Omen, Goku does not need to be calm and tranquil to utilise the form's power, but in MUI, Goku absolutely needs to be calm and tranquil to utilise the form's power. Being in any other mental state other than that would hinder MUI's power and his performance in chapter 84's fight is the result.

@pandalumina: I just realized the real reason why it dosen't make sense to them.

They want to believe that Vegeta is superior to Goku and Beerus is the top dog, despite overwhelming amounts of circumstantial evidence of the contrary in the chapters leading up to this point. Until now all they have been doing exercising motivated reasoning, and deliberately and dishonestly twist various information (eg. Toyotoro interview, the Eternal Dragon wish, etc.) to suit their pre-determined bias, rather than looking at the evidence objectively and in good faith before arriving towards the conclusion.

The moment the story literally spelled out that it's not the case, it dosen't make sense to them. Because it does not fit into their delusional narrative that Vegeta can contend with the big boys, hence they bitch and complain instead of taking the L.

This chapter pretty much confirmed that in Omen UI emotions are allowed since goku straight up states it. It only when he is in MUI with the silver that he needs to be completely calm and stable.