Power Ratings

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Edited By the creator

As I have broken up from work for the year as I have an excess number of holidays to take thanks to my workaholic life style : (, I decided to pay a visit to a project that I was working on a long time ago for the Vine, that sprang up from a conversation I had been in with Forever and Buckshot (having a conversation with these guys really helps to clear out the mental cobwebs and the ideas sparked from speaking with 'like minds' really helps. 
Anyhow I digress. The subject was on producing more comprehensive power grids to describe any comic book character (from any universe), over a wider range of abilities. 
Think of the current Marvel power grids only describe a limited number of characteristsics: Intelligence, Strength, Speed, Durability, Energy Projection and Fighting Skills. They also only break the ratings down over a 7 point scale - that does not do justice to splitting up some of the characters in terms of ability. 
 
In dusting off the old project, I had not realised how much work I had done but also how much work was left to do. 
So right now, I though that I might as well solicite some ideas on the concept so far and then try to finish off this thing - before it finishes me : ) 
 
OK now for the science part (as the commercials say), 
 
The power grid headings were going to be as follows (in no particular order), 
 
Strength 
Reaction Speed 
Endurance  
Movement Speed (Flight) 
Movement Speed (Running/Swimming/Leaping) 
Kinectic Durability 
Energy Durability 
Agility 
Intelligence 
Fighting Skill 
Energy Projection / Manipulation 
Telepathic Strength 
Telekinectic Strength (a duplex scale that takes in to account not just total mass moved but atomic / subatomic manipulation - tricky little things those atoms) 
 
Now the actual scales is where the real fun starts. Looking at the range of characters power levels in Marvel and DC, I have come to the realisation that to do the characters justice, I think that at least a 30 point scale is required to differentiate between the characters sufficiently. 
(I will only mention briefly that I have also looked at 40 and 50 point scales as well.........) 
  
So please comment - make it constructive because I'm looking for feedback to help move this forward.
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#1  Edited By thatguy

so what we just take any character and rank them?  what the limit on the skills? is there a top number?
 
btw haven't seen you in a while on here, good to see you again.

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#2  Edited By Precise

It's certainly interesting! But who will make these scales?.. seeing as there a certain amount of fanboys that might picture the scales higher then they truly are.

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#3  Edited By the creator

@thatguy
said:

"so what we just take any character and rank them?  what the limit on the skills? is there a top number?  btw haven't seen you in a while on here, good to see you again. "


No, not at the minute. I have already generated most of the detail for the 30 different levels for each power / characteristic. 
The questions are,  
Do the powers / characteristics listed i.e. Strength, Reaction Speed cover eneough detail of characters to accurately describe them out ?  
Do you think a 30 point scale too much detail, too little etc ?  
  
And I'm glad to be back : )
 
 
@Precise said:

"It's certainly interesting! But who will make these scales?.. seeing as there a certain amount of fanboys that might picture the scales higher then they truly are. "

    
I will make the scales (for now) and publish them for comment. 
As for ranking characters, I will put out some examples at a later date and see what people think. 
I should have an examplar (an example character) for each level so that people can then go - "Lizard is arted as Strength 7, so Spiderman must be around a similar level". 
Eventually the idea is that people can submit character ratings and include them on an editable page. 
I just hope the trolls don't wreck it.
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#4  Edited By Precise
@the creator said:
" Eventually the idea is that people can submit character ratings and include them on an editable page. I just hope the trolls don't wreck it. "
That's dangerous.. i would take some people whom you can trust and make them able to edit it. And if there are more rankings they can pm it to them or the page so it will then be edited. There's always one guy who gets angry and deletes everything..
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#5  Edited By Darkchild

This souonds pretty badass

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#6  Edited By the creator
@Precise said:
" @the creator said:
" Eventually the idea is that people can submit character ratings and include them on an editable page. I just hope the trolls don't wreck it. "
That's dangerous.. i would take some people whom you can trust and make them able to edit it. And if there are more rankings they can pm it to them or the page so it will then be edited. There's always one guy who gets angry and deletes everything.. "

That sound reasonable as I'm fearful of troll infestation : (  
 
 
@Darkchild said:
"This souonds pretty badass "

Thank you.

 
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#7  Edited By Precise
@the creator: Hm, now that i think of it. Andferne and ReEnforcer have a similar thing for RPG accounts (Comicvine Card). Maybe you could pm them for a little advice, they're doing it pretty good! Although Andferne isn't going to be back until after christmas.
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#8  Edited By thatguy

On Movement speed (flight) and the other Movement speed.....i'd just list it like this
 
Advanced Movement Speed : (i.e. Flight, Swimming, Leaping) and have them list which one
Movement Speed:
 
of course thats just my opinion, your the mastermind here.
 
of and by Kinetic Durability to you mean physical Durability?

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#9  Edited By thatguy
@the creator said:
"
@thatguy
said:

"so what we just take any character and rank them?  what the limit on the skills? is there a top number?  btw haven't seen you in a while on here, good to see you again. "


No, not at the minute. I have already generated most of the detail for the 30 different levels for each power / characteristic. 
The questions are,  
Do the powers / characteristics listed i.e. Strength, Reaction Speed cover eneough detail of characters to accurately describe them out ?  
Do you think a 30 point scale too much detail, too little etc ?  
  
And I'm glad to be back : )
 
 
@Precise said:

"It's certainly interesting! But who will make these scales?.. seeing as there a certain amount of fanboys that might picture the scales higher then they truly are. "

    I will make the scales (for now) and publish them for comment. As for ranking characters, I will put out some examples at a later date and see what people think. I should have an examplar (an example character) for each level so that people can then go - "Lizard is arted as Strength 7, so Spiderman must be around a similar level". Eventually the idea is that people can submit character ratings and include them on an editable page. I just hope the trolls don't wreck it. "
trolls will wreck it "OH Meh GAwd Teh Broly has 7 on everything!!!!1!!!!!"
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#10  Edited By the creator
@thatguy said:  
 
"On Movement speed (flight) and the other Movement speed.....i'd just list it like this  Advanced Movement Speed : (i.e. Flight, Swimming, Leaping) and have them list which oneMovement Speed:
  
 That was the plan : )
 
 
of course thats just my opinion, your the mastermind here.
  
 : )
 
 
of and by Kinetic Durability to you mean physical Durability? "
 
Yes. If I call it physical durability that begins to consuse it with durability to fire, radiation etc which are all physical phenomena. 
I'm still not sure I like Kinectic Durability vs Energy Durability (as Kinectic force is a form of energy)..........
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#11  Edited By the creator
@Precise said:
" @the creator: Hm, now that i think of it. Andferne and ReEnforcer have a similar thing for RPG accounts (Comicvine Card). Maybe you could pm them for a little advice, they're doing it pretty good! Although Andferne isn't going to be back until after christmas. "

They originally questioned me about the power grids a long time ago : )
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#12  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Looking at your telepathic/kinetic strength measurement I was thinking of maybe a control/skill subsection (or just separate scales). That would be like the second part of your telekinetic strength scale for those characters with high control/skill but less power. In my mind it works a lot like Strength and Fighting Skill. 
 
And on telekinetic abilities, I'm unsure of how separate it is from just energy projection/manipulation. Sometimes it's referred to as just its own kind of energy and I think in a lot of ways it's pretty much the same.
 
I think combining those thoughts might look something like this.
 
 
Movement Speed
Reaction Speed/Reflexes
Strength
Fighting Skill
Energy Projection
Energy Manipulation
Telepathic Power
Telepathic Skill
etc
 
Just a half-thought, charisma might be a category to add. Something to measure interpersonal/social skills which would extend into nonpowered manipulative abilities. That could apply to Captain America's leadership and a major part of Tao's intelligence (although that could just stay labeled as intelligence). Or is that not something not significant/common enough to measure?
 
I know there are some weird powers that would have to be written out but I'm curious where powers like Daken's emotion changing pheromones, Purple Man's mind controlling pheromones, Omega Red's deathspores, etc fall (if they were scaled). Would the first two be labelled as telepathic because they alter minds even though they don't go through the usual channels? What would the third be? How about extra/inhuman limbs? I'm thinking they're common enough that they could be scaled. Maybe in a larger category of body control that includes shapeshifting(and those with bodies they can manipulate ie:Sandman)? Just throwing stuff out there, I know it's hard to find the line between being comprehensive and being pedantic and overcomplicated.

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#13  Edited By King_Saturn
I like this idea... also I think the scale should be amped from 1 - 7 to possibly 1 - 10... 
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#14  Edited By Matezoide2
@King Saturn said:
" I like this idea... also I think the scale should be amped from 1 - 7 to possibly 1 - 10...  "
i agree,1-10 makes much more sense than 1-7 IMO
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#15  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
I like this idea very much, and I think you are the most suitable person to move it forward creator. Buckshot poses some very interesting questions, as well.
 
 
Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
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#16  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator
@Morpheus_ said:

Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
"
And there are those that use it on a less cosmic scale as well: Hydroman, Sandman, Jack Hawksmoor, etc
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#17  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@Buckshot said:
" @Morpheus_ said:

Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
"
And there are those that use it on a less cosmic scale as well: Hydroman, Sandman, Jack Hawksmoor, etc "
Also true.
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#18  Edited By CosmicSpiral

How will the power rankings work? Are they based on real-world parallels (1 = x tons/mph/etc.) or relative to each other?

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#19  Edited By the creator
 
My this has provoked a lot of questions,  
 

@CosmicSpiral said:

"How will the power rankings work? Are they based on real-world parallels (1 = x tons/mph/etc.) or relative to each other? "


They will be based exactly as you suggested, that say power level 5 may mean Strength = 0.3 tonnes, a flight speed of 150 mph and a reaction speed of 3x a normal human.
  
@Buckshot said:
" @Morpheus_ said:

Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
"
And there are those that use it on a less cosmic scale as well: Hydroman, Sandman, Jack Hawksmoor, etc "
Accepted. 
 
 
 
@Morpheus_ said:
"I like this idea very much, and I think you are the most suitable person to move it forward creator. Buckshot poses some very interesting questions, as well.
 
 
Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
"
Thanks you. Stats are 2nd nature to me - as you have already realised : ) 
Matter manipulation is something that I have been 'stewing over' for some time. 
In the Surfers case, it is part of his Cosmic Energy bag of tricks but for others it falls under a different catagory. Hence Surfer could fit under Energy Projection / Manipulation while others wouldn't. 
I have a deep think on this one. 
 
 
@King Saturn said:
"I like this idea... also I think the scale should be amped from 1 - 7 to possibly 1 - 10...  "
 
@Matezoide said:
" @King Saturn said:
" I like this idea... also I think the scale should be amped from 1 - 7 to possibly 1 - 10...  "
i agree,1-10 makes much more sense than 1-7 IMO "
I'm going to go ahead at the minute with a scale that is likely to be 1 - 30 because a smaller scale does not allow differentiation between some characters and frankly (despite what others might think), trying to get Superman in to a strength scale with some Marvel powerhouses just won't happen on a 1-10 scale. 

 
@Buckshot
said:
"Looking at your telepathic/kinetic strength measurement I was thinking of maybe a control/skill subsection (or just separate scales). That would be like the second part of your telekinetic strength scale for those characters with high control/skill but less power. In my mind it works a lot like Strength and Fighting Skill.   And on telekinetic abilities, I'm unsure of how separate it is from just energy projection/manipulation. Sometimes it's referred to as just its own kind of energy and I think in a lot of ways it's pretty much the same.  I think combining those thoughts might look something like this.    Movement Speed Reaction Speed/ReflexesStrength Fighting Skill Energy Projection Energy Manipulation Telepathic PowerTelepathic Skill etc Just a half-thought, charisma might be a category to add. Something to measure interpersonal/social skills which would extend into nonpowered manipulative abilities. That could apply to Captain America's leadership and a major part of Tao's intelligence (although that could just stay labeled as intelligence). Or is that not something not significant/common enough to measure? I know there are some weird powers that would have to be written out but I'm curious where powers like Daken's emotion changing pheromones, Purple Man's mind controlling pheromones, Omega Red's deathspores, etc fall (if they were scaled). Would the first two be labelled as telepathic because they alter minds even though they don't go through the usual channels? What would the third be? How about extra/inhuman limbs? I'm thinking they're common enough that they could be scaled. Maybe in a larger category of body control that includes shapeshifting(and those with bodies they can manipulate ie:Sandman)? Just throwing stuff out there, I know it's hard to find the line between being comprehensive and being pedantic and overcomplicated. "
Buckshot, I think we are on the same page as was something we discussed a long time ago. 
I'll take the points on you have raised and retool some of the points to take some things more in to account. 
I will try and provide guidelines as to where some characters powers fite in i.e. Purple Man. 
 
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#20  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@the creator said:
"  

  

 
 
 
@Morpheus_ said:
"I like this idea very much, and I think you are the most suitable person to move it forward creator. Buckshot poses some very interesting questions, as well.
 
 
Maybe I have overlooked it, but shouldn't matter manipulation be a factor, as well, even though not many characters use it? Characters will great energy manipulating range (Thanos, Silver Surfer) do display matter manipulation on a vast scale as well, and that obviously is also a common trait of reality warpers, like Jaspers p.e.
"
Thanks you. Stats are 2nd nature to me - as you have already realised : ) 
Matter manipulation is something that I have been 'stewing over' for some time. 
In the Surfers case, it is part of his Cosmic Energy bag of tricks but for others it falls under a different catagory. Hence Surfer could fit under Energy Projection / Manipulation while others wouldn't. 
I have a deep think on this one. 
  "
I love stats about characters in general, and this sounds like a great chance to have a far better ranking system than we do now, one that people could actually rely on.
 
I understand what you mean about the Surfer's case, but as you said, it is not that simple for other characters.
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#21  Edited By the creator
@Morpheus_ said:
I love stats about characters in general, and this sounds like a great chance to have a far better ranking system than we do now, one that people could actually rely on.
 
I understand what you mean about the Surfer's case, but as you said, it is not that simple for other characters.
"

It wil mean some more work for the matter manipulators and then there are the reality manipulators but I'll take it one step at a time.
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#22  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@the creator said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

I love stats about characters in general, and this sounds like a great chance to have a far better ranking system than we do now, one that people could actually rely on.
 
I understand what you mean about the Surfer's case, but as you said, it is not that simple for other characters.
"
It wil mean some more work for the matter manipulators and then there are the reality manipulators but I'll take it one step at a time. "
Good to hear. 
 
In truth, I cannot begin to imagine the tremendous amount of work this will require to put together.
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#23  Edited By CosmicSpiral

I like this kind of stuff a lot, it's fun. If you need help, holla in my direction. 

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Really digging the thread. 
 
Might I suggest you incorporate a Dynamic Strength category? It can be used to define feats of explosion and power, something comics rarely account for in story telling. It may sound excessive at first, but power/explosion is a large factor responsible leaping distances, sprinting gains, knockout power and other feats of agility.
 
In my mind Marvel hasn't accurately given credence to the attributes possessed by their characters that allow certain feats: such as the running speed and leaping abilities of the Hulk. Adding the extra category would finally compensate for this missing link.                                        %Pr 
 
 

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#25  Edited By Strafe Prower

Great job Creator
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#26  Edited By The_Martian

I remember you guys trying to do this before. Hopefully we can get it completed this time, well at least as completed as it can get. There are a LOT of comic characters.

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#27  Edited By the creator
@Nobody said:
"I remember you guys trying to do this before. Hopefully we can get it completed this time, well at least as completed as it can get. There are a LOT of comic characters. "
As Henry V said, "Once in to the breach dear friends...."  : ) 
 

@Omega-level Supreme
said:
"  Really digging the thread.  Might I suggest you incorporate a Dynamic Strength category? It can be used to define feats of explosion and power, something comics rarely account for in story telling. It may sound excessive at first, but power/explosion is a large factor responsible leaping distances, sprinting gains, knockout power and other feats of agility. In my mind Marvel hasn't accurately given credence to the attributes possessed by their characters that allow certain feats: such as the running speed and leaping abilities of the Hulk. Adding the extra category would finally compensate for this missing link.                                        %Pr    "

I'll consider in my approach. 
 
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@the creator: Cool                          %Pr
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#29  Edited By the creator
@Omega-level Supreme said:
"@the creator: Cool                          %Pr "

: )