PIS in Iron Fist (Spoilers)

Please tell me how in the final fight with Danny and Harold, Danny hits him then runs away. Harold was still on the ground for another 10 seconds after being hit. Also tell me how Harold almost won the fight, even though Danny had been training non stop for the past 15 years.

Well the answer is in your title itself. But for what it is worth, Harold wasnt just some untrained guy. He could punch hard enough to tear his punching bag and he did beat that Triad dude.

PIS at a very high end

It's not PIS, Iron Fist is just a bad fighter...

It's obvious PIS and the whole fight was stupid as shit

Just complete PIS Danny should have fodderised him even with his emotions all over the place

Exactly this. He could take down 20 dudes, but can't stealth attack and disarm a regular guy holding a gun.

@peterparkerjr: He did stealth attack, Danny knocked him on his ass than ran away for no reason.

Danny emotions were messed up, and he had probably exhausted himself using his uber Iron Fist. But really I think he subconsciously didn't want to end the fight against Harold, since he'd have to decide what do with him.

@alphaq: Thats true

@brucerogers: Good to know!

Oh yeah, I remember that. What a mook.

@peterparkerjr: Actually it could be argued that he wanted to talk to Harold longer.

@sanitrize1999: He could've just as easily disarmed and knocked him down, then talked to him.

I honestly don't think that loosing to Harold was that big of a PIS. Danny was getting beaten up by everyone. I guess an argument can be made for the truck guy to be skilled, but what about the guy with brass knuckle? One hit and Danny was messed up so bad he almost lost the fight?

If it wasn't PIS then that would imply Harold could potentially replicate Danny's skill feats. And maybe it's just me, but I don't see Harold beating the people Danny has or beating the amount of the people Danny has. But lets be serious, anyone who watched the show all the way though could tell this is obviously PIS lmao

@rbt: A hit to the back of the head with brass knuckles is no joke,even for a trained fighter like him. In fact that would have killed or KOed a normal person.

I mean its not like he has superhuman durability

Eh with the things other live action peak humans can take, that was a pretty bad showing for Danny. Matt even without his suit can take much more punishment without slowing down.

@rbt: Probably, but it is not a knock on his fighting skill but

Idea was that he was emotionally conflicted/chi polluted with guilt etc. Hence why this happened as soon as Danny composed himself and got his little Gao speech:

It was still dumb as hell though.

I have absolutely no doubt that if Matt were sucker punched in that region with knuckle dusters he'd be all over the place as well. Getting hit in a vulnerable spot like that isn't like getting punched in the face or gut.

Harold vs Danny is the only showing I consider bad in the entire series. Otherwise there was pretty much always context whenever he struggled IIRC.

@rogueshadow: Hopefully we will see more of his Chi based feats in the defenders.

@rogueshadow:

I have absolutely doubt that if Matt were sucker punched in that region with knuckle dusters he'd be all over the place as well. Getting hit in a vulnerable spot like that isn't like getting punched in the face or gut.

Danny, in general, had pretty bad durability. Bleeding from hits from fodders, getting knocked out instatly by a 10-15ft drop. Matt is a decent bit better in physicals.

Harold vs Danny is the only showing I consider bad in the entire series. Otherwise there was pretty much always context whenever he struggled.

I wish people showed this much consideration to CW Flash's bad showings.

He was hurled fifteen feet by Gao and was fine, tanking shots from Gao's massive henchmen, even when he smacked him with a chair, and that guy was busting through wooden tables with his blows. Plus he tanked getting smacked around by wooden poles by the mental patients and proceeded to do this to them.

Whenever he fought actual fodder he demolished them, he just very rarely fought real street fodder.

There are times when Matt has been visibly knocked for six by a blow, even when it hit his helmet (like the big guy who smacked him in the nose in the Season 2 Hallway fight).

Can't speak for Flash.

They really need to up the budget for Iron Fist and Luke Cage, or make the seasons shorter. Or both.

Daredevil's power level means he doesn't mean as many crazy effects, but even there I want to see him doing more acrobatics and parkour with the billy club.

The show was so bad. Idk how I finished it. All their budget went DD and JJ.

+1

@rogueshadow: The trailer fight to free the chemist was also close to pis levels imo. Granted there was a small degree of context but someone as trained as Danny is shouldn't have to struggle that much and get hit that many times by a random hand assassin. Not that its a big deal, its obvious the director/writer just wanted to give Danny a good fight since its no fun seeing him just destroy everyone but I think that fight went a little too long.

@rogueshadow: Agreed

I will never understand this logic. If Danny was able to go through everyone with ease up until the X-Ray fight, container fight and etc.. Shouldn't we you know.. assume those people are that good? Besides, one was sent to destroy the only (known) connection to losing a multi-billion dollar company and one was guarding the only chemist that could make the synthetic heroin for The Hand. They weren't average..

We know that that guy must have been pretty formidable as he had never failed Gao before and he was put in charge of looking after Radovan, who was basically the most important individual in the imminent expansion of her criminal empire. Not to mention the guy was probably about 6'3" and pushing 250lb fighting in an enclosed space. If the show were on point though, Danny should've busted out some nerve strike or something though, I agree.

@rogueshadow: I know the context but he was getting hit a lot by him. I could see it taking more than a few punches to put him down but not getting hit so much when one of Danny's signature things is his quickness.

I think that the guy was just meant to be that good, Gao's guards were no joke. One of Gao's guards would have killed Colleen if not for Claire's contrived timely intervention.

@rogueshadow:

He was hurled fifteen feet by Gao and was fine, tanking shots from Gao's massive henchmen, even when he smacked him with a chair, and that guy was busting through wooden tables with his blows. Plus he tanked getting smacked around by wooden poles by the mental patients and proceeded to do this to them.

He was not fine in any of the scene you mentioned. He was visibly hurt or slowed down.

• He was fine after getting hit with the chi strike, he was even helping the girl to stand, and he'd been poisoned and wounded beforehand as well.
• He fodderised them and started literally running straight after getting beaten. And he was drugged there too.
• He was fine after fighting King (that's apparently his name, I don't know if he's supposed to be somebody in particular), he jumped onto Colleen's car and they rushed him to Claire.

@rogueshadow: Fine is what Oliver was when the Dominator smacked him across the face. Danny was either limping or bleeding in almost all scenarios. And there's the time he was knocked out by 10-15ft fall. That's quantifiable.

I don't remember him limping, it might have looked like that but he was actually helping the girl to walk IIRC. He was limping when he fought Zhou Cheng though, but that's hardly a low-end feat.

But yeah, he bled when he was punched repeatedly... I'm not saying he's superhuman, Matt was visibly limping and hurt many times without the suit. His durability was in keeping with an MCU peak human, I'm not talking about the Arrowverse.

didn't Harold have a gun at the moment? also, I thought a reoccurring theme throughout the show was dannys inner conflict with actually being iron fist and in having that conflict, he didn't fight or manage his chi as efficiently as hes been trained.. I get that danny got tagged a bit more than Iron Fist should, but hes still learning as the IF during the series. Batman has trained all his life in like 57 martial arts and still gets tagged from time to time by much lesser beings. IF wasn't as good as DD. we get it. its not FF or anything......

Not only that, but they were in the back of a semi truck trailer that was lurching all over the place. Still kind of PIS, but it was meant to have context.

The PIS of the final fight is pretty easy to explain. They didn't want the finale fight to just be a cake walk (like it would have sensibly been), they wanted to have SOME sense of jeopardy to it. It was contrived as hell, and sloppy writing, but PIS is exactly what it was.

@heroup2112: The thing is though that during most of the fight it wasn't really moving that much. He just kept tagging Danny over and over and it took like 10-15 hits for Danny to finally put him down iirc.

Exactly, which makes zero sense. It was just a very contrived excuse to have the finale fight be an actual "fight". Hell, Danny didn't even have that much trouble with Bakuto...heck for that matter I don't remember him having as much trouble with Zhou Cheng (though I COULD be wrong on this one).

Let me be clear, I'm not defending the fight, it was definitely full of PIS. That having been said, Danny was running low on Chi energy after blasting the floor in the previous scene. He got shot in the hand and so was fighting him one-handed. And most importantly, he was fighting the man who was like a second father to him and who was responsible for his parents' death. He was physically, emotionally, and spiritually compromised for the fight against Harry Beachum. The show failed to make the emotional stakes apparent during the fight, by giving Danny something he wants to learn from Harry or something he needs to say to him. Even so, Danny still should have handled him MUCH more easily. They needed to play-up the emotional stakes to earn Harold's top Supervillain status. They should have had Danny kill Beachum several times over the last few episodes and have Harold return crazier and crazier. In the final fight, Harold should be using both his children as leverage against Danny and one of them, WARD, should have died. This would have earned Joy's enmity toward Danny, who she could blame for her brother's death.

Good points. Yes, even as physically and emotionally jacked up as he was, Danny should have had no trouble handling Harold. You're also right that doing something like taking one of his children hostage and/or killing one would have done the job of raising the stakes and/or increasing the jeopardy of the situation, rather than having Danny do so poorly in the fight.

Good call.

@cramandman: We were talking about the fight in the semi trailer there.

Into the Badlands is what Iron Fist should have been.

It was totally ridiculous that Harold could give Danny Rand a fight. Even if he totally is out of wack emotionally, he shouldn't have any trouble fighting a fodder level character.

@heroup2112: @spambot said:

Oh, sorry. I think heroup2112 made good points about the semi-trailer fight being against one of the Hand's more capable fighters/bodyguards and it being against a much larger opponent in an unstable and enclosed fighting environment.

Thanks, I'm a writer. It's what I do.

In terms of a surprise attack I feel like it's pretty par for the course. For example, May from Agents of Shield was KO'd by a surprise spin kick from Alisha, someone she fodderized in the previous season.

If anything that speaks more for Matt's pain tolerance than Danny being a lightweight. And even then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be completely fine after taking brass knuckles to the back of the head. The guy was fazed after getting snuck up by the big guy in the stairway fight.

@dstreet45: That..actually makes a lot of sense. That attack was possibly a sneak attack, which probably should not be taken into account.