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#151 Posted by Jeepeh (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jeepeh said:

@imthedamnbatman: Your best thread I've seen.

Actually, I believe per the rules of the animal kingdom known as the internet forum, (seeing as how I stomped him in our debate, and made him leave his own thread) this thread is MINEnow!!!

MWAHAHAHA!!!
MWAHAHAHA!!!

A debate on this thread? O_o

Don't worry thread! I'll rescue you!

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#152 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson: I've been wondering this for a while and seeing you again made me remember to ask.... Why do you type so large?

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#153 Posted by SSJDarthPlagueis (2750 posts) - - Show Bio

This trend is great lol!

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#154 Edited by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@imthedamnbatman said:

@jaken7: That's not being close minded. It's just assuming any guy would jump on any hot girl that walks by and asks for sex. It's insulting and makes men look ignorant.

Are you seriously a man? Or just a virgin? Probably both I guess. Let me tell you, that is EXACTLY what EVERY straight man would do.

My point is a new one; women OR men aren't sexualized in comics. There are plenty of examples in real life of people looking and acting like this. You can't really call it over sexualization if it happens in real life.

They aren't? I'm pretty sure we've been over this. And no, there isn't and no, it doesn't.

You say this but he's the one that's close-minded

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#155 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio
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#156 Posted by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman:

I'm saying his statement is ironic. That he would call you close-minded and then make such blanket statements.

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#157 Posted by unBREAKable_Fs4 (4316 posts) - - Show Bio

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120402225425/random-ness/images/3/34/Michael_Jackson_popcorn.gif

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#158 Posted by Aros001 (3644 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

No Caption Provided

BB

That's brilliant

Does anyone else think he looks like an anime version of Batman? Japanese manga and anime is VERY oversexed so this would make sense (seriously, if you think the american comics are oversexed take a look at Rosario+Vampire, Negima, One Piece, and a near endless number of other titles).

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#159 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormfo: Completely agree. A confident woman begets even more sexiness.

@imthedamnbatman Well of course you wouldn't see it that way since you've literally ignored everything I've said. But that's alright, the posts speak for themselves. Again, wasn't trying to insult you, thought you understood that. Again, I don't want anything to change, I like the depiction of women in comics (when they're strong and confident or when they're over-sexualized. Sex sells and men are the target audience). But to pretend they aren't or that it isn't prevalent is damn ignorant. Yes those college girls are being over-sexual (god bless 'em) just like plenty of women in comics. Just because you can give real world examples doesn't mean it's the norm. It's a woman's body, she can dress how she wants. If she wants to dress liberally with her clothing, then we get to have an eyeful and she gets the attention she wanted. Win, win. That doesn't mean that every woman dresses like that so the depiction of women in comics is completely aligned with the real world. Get a reality check man.

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#160 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@imthedamnbatman:

I'm saying his statement is ironic. That he would call you close-minded and then make such blanket statements.

If I say "most" and "every single man I've met" instead, would that help? And if you'd bothered to read through this thread, you'd realize that he definitely is stubborn and close-minded.

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#161 Posted by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

Regardless of any of that you must see the irony in the highlighted statement.

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#162 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@jaken7:

Regardless of any of that you must see the irony in the highlighted statement.

It was a poor choice of words that you took out of context. I went on to explain what I meant by the first part, and I just cleared up the second part for you. Yes, that sentence alone is rather ironic. Pot = kettle and all that, but I'd really like to focus on the topic at hand. Especially because I'm afraid you're trying to just discredit all of my arguments. Which, well, would suck because one has nothing to do with the other.

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#163 Posted by SOG7dc (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

Lol I'm not trying to discredit your arguments. I was focusing on jut that one thing that I highlighted. As far as the thread I think entertainment as a whole has too much sex for my liking. That said I am rather conservative as far as things like sex go and I'm a virgin as well.

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#164 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@jaken7:

Lol I'm not trying to discredit your arguments. I was focusing on jut that one thing that I highlighted. As far as the thread I think entertainment as a whole has too much sex for my liking. That said I am rather conservative as far as things like sex go and I'm a virgin as well.

Well perfect! I can totally respect that, and it definitely makes sense to me that you'd have that perspective.

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#165 Posted by MetalJimmor (6428 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

Are you seriously a man? Or just a virgin? Probably both I guess. Let me tell you, that is EXACTLY what EVERY straight man would do.

Actually, I believe per the rules of the animal kingdom known as the internet forum, (seeing as how I stomped him in our debate, and made him leave his own thread) this thread is MINEnow!!!

You did flat out insult him and make a mass overgeneralized statement about how all men are sex crazed pigs, which he took offense to and decided to stop debating with you. Then you declared victory.

That isn't how you win a debate. He didn't concede to you, he left because you made a personal attack.

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#166 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Except women in comics aren't always sexualized like you claim. You keep saying that, but it just isn't true.

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#167 Edited by lifeofvibe (3785 posts) - - Show Bio

@unbreakable_fs4: were all tthinking this on the subject me redreading red hood and the outlaws vol 1 youll find all that body exsposure was not only directed at starfire so yeah also the cover with jason penis sticking out BOOM

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#168 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: I really wish this site had rep bars, cause I'd + rep you right now.

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#169 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

Are you seriously a man? Or just a virgin? Probably both I guess. Let me tell you, that is EXACTLY what EVERY straight man would do.

Actually, I believe per the rules of the animal kingdom known as the internet forum, (seeing as how I stomped him in our debate, and made him leave his own thread) this thread is MINEnow!!!

You did flat out insult him and make a mass overgeneralized statement about how all men are sex crazed pigs, which he took offense to and decided to stop debating with you. Then you declared victory.

That isn't how you win a debate. He didn't concede to you, he left because you made a personal attack.

I didn't make a personal attack. I made an unfounded assumption based on personal experience and preconceptions. I've explained it too him numerous times, but he still has decided to take it personal, even though he disproved my theory. It was a poor choice of words made even worse when taken out of context.

And no, I didn't claim all men are "sex-crazed pigs", I initially claimed that every straight, single man would say "yes" to a hot woman offering to have sex. That's our programming. It's damn biology. I later revised it by saying "most" or "all the men I've met."

When he didn't bring anything to the table, kept ignoring my arguments and repeating his already disproved theories, as well as making baseless assumptions towards me (just like you are doing, and yes, just like I did to him in that taken-out-of-context statement) while I kept disproving his arguments...that is exactly when I won the debate.

But, no, go ahead and focus on that one sentence while there is a whole thread full of me clearly laying him out all over the dance floor. Ignore the topic at hand, and hyper-focus on that one comment. Totally makes you look credible.

@metaljimmor: I really wish this site had rep bars, cause I'd + rep you right now.

Oooh, I wonder what you'd do to me. ;P

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#170 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6868 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

There's no such thing as "over-sexualization" when it comes to marketing. Male comic readers outnumber female comic readers 9-1.

This

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#171 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman said:

@jaken7: Except women in comics aren't always sexualized like you claim. You keep saying that, but it just isn't true.

Point me to one instance where I said that. I even posted scans of one of my favorite female characters, Anna Maria Marconi! You're drowning buddy.

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#172 Posted by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormfo: Completely agree. A confident woman begets even more sexiness.

So we should stick to the stereotype that all successful, smart, or confident women are all single ugly and fat lonely miserable people? You can be confident and know how to take care of your body. The art may be visually appealing, but it is trying to tell a story. We are not first graders. We are not simply looking at the pretty pictures. I literally do nothing but draw and replicate them all day. Do you want to know why they do this? Because it would look ugly if they did not. The anatomy for a female is the length of their body is about 7 and a half to eight of their heads. But comic artist like give women a lean and long physique by giving them at the most extreme over 10 heads and making the boobs in proportion with their head relative to their size. You would probably be wondering why the do not give them the regular anatomy and proportions to tone down the sexual looks. The reason is they would look like stumps in most poses even as simple as flying. They exaggerate the proportions to give them an appealing look. They do this the exact same way in males. They give males a wider body frame the taller they get. Do you know how the hulk and characters like that look so buff? Proportion wise they are the same as a regular person. But artist make the shoulder length wider

I will even give an example. In this pic. The mans chest is actually that of a normal man. But his shoulders are farther apart and has bigger arms giving the appearance of a strong muscular chest . Combine this with how tall he is, it adds the effect. His stomach and abs and chest and head are normal size. But they made the places we naturally percieve to gauge size bigger to seem as if he is just big all around. They did not actually make the head big either.

No Caption Provided

So do you understand now? They do this same technique with men as well. They exaggerate proportions to take away that tree stump body frame we would naturally have translated into a comic-book to give it a more appealing look. To sexualize a comic book character you need have proportions in spades to exaggerate it. The artist who do this know what they are doing. And are trying to convey a feeling you get when you see a character. When emma has that lean hypnotic time of figure with those well-defined eyes, you get a feeling of sort of playful emotionally and sometimes even sexually. Which is true for her character. For every instance you name, If you give me the context of that scan I can give a paragraph worth of reason they are drawn that way and the message of what they are doing by drawing the person that way. It goes both ways. If guys have no problem with over-sexualization, why does the opposite gender not take the lead as well. No need to complain. Guys have a higher demographic of comic books anyway. Females have a higher demographic of watching anime in Northern America as opposed to males in Japan. Which is why most anime productions that support American views give even males female transgender characteristics such as pretty eyes. Sorry lol. When I start talking about drawing I start typing paragraphs xd

@imthedamnbatman Well of course you wouldn't see it that way since you've literally ignored everything I've said. But that's alright, the posts speak for themselves. Again, wasn't trying to insult you, thought you understood that. Again, I don't want anything to change, I like the depiction of women in comics (when they're strong and confident or when they're over-sexualized. Sex sells and men are the target audience). But to pretend they aren't or that it isn't prevalent is damn ignorant. Yes those college girls are being over-sexual (god bless 'em) just like plenty of women in comics. Just because you can give real world examples doesn't mean it's the norm. It's a woman's body, she can dress how she wants. If she wants to dress liberally with her clothing, then we get to have an eyeful and she gets the attention she wanted. Win, win. That doesn't mean that every woman dresses like that so the depiction of women in comics is completely aligned with the real world. Get a reality check man.

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#173 Edited by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@aros001 said:
@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

No Caption Provided

BB

That's brilliant

Does anyone else think he looks like an anime version of Batman? Japanese manga and anime is VERY oversexed so this would make sense (seriously, if you think the american comics are oversexed take a look at Rosario+Vampire, Negima, One Piece, and a near endless number of other titles).

Ironically anime is more female oriented In american views. So most animes trying to get views internationally give males female qualities such as eyes and in some cases a more emo look. But I do not see an anime vice thread of the over feminine sexualization of men in Anime.

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#174 Posted by MetalJimmor (6428 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

You called him gay and a virgin. You can try to paint it any way you like, but it was an insult.

You can defend yourself however you want, but it was rude and uncalled for, and he had every right to walk away from the debate after that. In fact, he did the right thing to just walk away rather than further engaging you.

And no, I didn't claim all men are "sex-crazed pigs", I initially claimed that every straight, single man would say "yes" to a hot woman offering to have sex. That's our programming. It's damn biology. I later revised it by saying "most" or "all the men I've met."

You continue to generalize every male on the planet and hold true to your original point that the majority of men would gladly have sex with any attractive woman who asks. That's a stereotype, and a very unflattering one at that. Men are no more inclined toward sex with strangers than women, we've just come to accept it as a truth because that's what television and societal rules say is true. In other words, men are portrayed by the media in a way that is both false and demeaning to the gender. The big difference between how men are portrayed in the media and how women are portrayed in comics is that people actually believe what the media has to say about how men behave.

When he didn't bring anything to the table, kept ignoring my arguments and repeating his already disproved theories, as well as making baseless assumptions towards me (just like you are doing, and yes, just like I did to him in that taken-out-of-context statement) while I kept disproving his arguments...that is exactly when I won the debate.

On the contrary, I'm not addressing your other points because they are irrelevant to the point I'm making. You don't win a debate just because you've said something offensive and the other person walks away before escalating the situation. There is a difference between conceding a debate and leaving it.

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#175 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormfo said:

@jaken7 said:

@thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormfo: Completely agree. A confident woman begets even more sexiness.

So we should stick to the stereotype that all successful, smart, or confident women are all single ugly and fat lonely miserable people? You can be confident and know how to take care of your body. The art may be visually appealing, but it is trying to tell a story. We are not first graders. We are not simply looking at the pretty pictures. I literally do nothing but draw and replicate them all day. Do you want to know why they do this? Because it would look ugly if they did not. The anatomy for a female is the length of their body is about 7 and a half to eight of their heads. But comic artist like give women a lean and long physique by giving them at the most extreme over 10 heads and making the boobs in proportion with their head relative to their size. You would probably be wondering why the do not give them the regular anatomy and proportions to tone down the sexual looks. The reason is they would look like stumps in most poses even as simple as flying. They exaggerate the proportions to give them an appealing look. They do this the exact same way in males. They give males a wider body frame the taller they get. Do you know how the hulk and characters like that look so buff? Proportion wise they are the same as a regular person. But artist make the shoulder length wider

I will even give an example. In this pic. The mans chest is actually that of a normal man. But his shoulders are farther apart and has bigger arms giving the appearance of a strong muscular chest . Combine this with how tall he is, it adds the effect. His stomach and abs and chest and head are normal size. But they made the places we naturally percieve to gauge size bigger to seem as if he is just big all around. They did not actually make the head big either.

No Caption Provided

So do you understand now? They do this same technique with men as well. They exaggerate proportions to take away that tree stump body frame we would naturally have translated into a comic-book to give it a more appealing look. To sexualize a comic book character you need have proportions in spades to exaggerate it. The artist who do this know what they are doing. And are trying to convey a feeling you get when you see a character. When emma has that lean hypnotic time of figure with those well-defined eyes, you get a feeling of sort of playful emotionally and sometimes even sexually. Which is true for her character. For every instance you name, If you give me the context of that scan I can give a paragraph worth of reason they are drawn that way and the message of what they are doing by drawing the person that way. It goes both ways. If guys have no problem with over-sexualization, why does the opposite gender not take the lead as well. No need to complain. Guys have a higher demographic of comic books anyway. Females have a higher demographic of watching anime in Northern America as opposed to males in Japan. Which is why most anime productions that support American views give even males female transgender characteristics such as pretty eyes. Sorry lol. When I start talking about drawing I start typing paragraphs xd

@imthedamnbatman Well of course you wouldn't see it that way since you've literally ignored everything I've said. But that's alright, the posts speak for themselves. Again, wasn't trying to insult you, thought you understood that. Again, I don't want anything to change, I like the depiction of women in comics (when they're strong and confident or when they're over-sexualized. Sex sells and men are the target audience). But to pretend they aren't or that it isn't prevalent is damn ignorant. Yes those college girls are being over-sexual (god bless 'em) just like plenty of women in comics. Just because you can give real world examples doesn't mean it's the norm. It's a woman's body, she can dress how she wants. If she wants to dress liberally with her clothing, then we get to have an eyeful and she gets the attention she wanted. Win, win. That doesn't mean that every woman dresses like that so the depiction of women in comics is completely aligned with the real world. Get a reality check man.

Why did you write all that in my quote box? And...um? What? Is attacking people who agree with you usually how you go about life? A confident woman is a sexy woman. Where is the disagreement? Do you not know what "beget" means? I'm honestly confused.

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#176 Posted by lifeofvibe (3785 posts) - - Show Bio
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#177 Posted by Pokeysteve (12018 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on the title, I was ready to throw down the same argument that's in the OP haha.

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

No Caption Provided

BB

Dude, she just drew Dick Grayson. Seriously now.

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#178 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor said:

@jaken7:

You called him gay and a virgin. You can try to paint it any way you like, but it was an insult.

What in the actual f*** are you talking about? I asked him if he was male. Are you suggesting gay people (which have nothing to do with the discussion) aren't male? That being gay is a bad thing, therefore it's an insult? That's incredibly offensive bud. And no, it wasn't aimed as an insult. If he was a woman he might not know how a man's urges and impulses work, hence the confusion as to whether or not all men would like to have sex (they do, it's biology.) And I already explained why I assumed he was a virgin.

You're the one claiming it's bad to be a virgin by painting my assumption as an insult. So what if he was? I was trying to understand where he was coming from.

@metaljimmor said:

@jaken7:

And no, I didn't claim all men are "sex-crazed pigs", I initially claimed that every straight, single man would say "yes" to a hot woman offering to have sex. That's our programming. It's damn biology. I later revised it by saying "most" or "all the men I've met."

You continue to generalize every male on the planet and hold true to your original point that the majority of men would gladly have sex with any attractive woman who asks. That's a stereotype, and a very unflattering one at that. Men are no more inclined toward sex with strangers than women, we've just come to accept it as a truth because that's what television and societal rules say is true. In other words, men are portrayed by the media in a way that is both false and demeaning to the gender. The big difference between how men are portrayed in the media and how women are portrayed in comics is that people actually believe what the media has to say about how men behave.

So you wouldn't like to have sex with an attractive woman? Most men will keep it to themselves, I'm not claiming all men are sex offenders, just that we have very basic needs down to a biological and genetic level. I'm sorry, I just plain disagree with you. As a male, I can tell you that I, along with everyone I have met, would most certainly like to have sex with a beautiful women. That's my experience. It's barely a "stereotype." And what does that tell you about us if it's so prevalent in media and marketing? Sex sells, and we want it.

@metaljimmor said:

When he didn't bring anything to the table, kept ignoring my arguments and repeating his already disproved theories, as well as making baseless assumptions towards me (just like you are doing, and yes, just like I did to him in that taken-out-of-context statement) while I kept disproving his arguments...that is exactly when I won the debate.

On the contrary, I'm not addressing your other points because they are irrelevant to the point I'm making. You don't win a debate just because you've said something offensive and the other person walks away before escalating the situation. There is a difference between conceding a debate and leaving it.

Not only did he end up coming back for more, but his "leaving" because of my "insults" were a scapegoat to try and paint himself as the better man instead of the clear loser in this debate that he was. He was abandoning a sinking ship. He can claim it was all about my insults, but he seemed to accept my explanation, and hasn't completely left.

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#179 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: You say it's the norm. It's not.

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#180 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman: That a straight man would want to have sex with a woman? It most certainly is the norm.

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#181 Posted by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I said sorry lol. I have a chatter box problem the second the words drawing enter my head. I just always like to give more info in for further reference

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#182 Edited by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: A straight female would gladly do the same. I live in atlanta. Just today I walked down the street and a girl was going around going "I will do wonders for 10 dollars!" Prostitutes anybody? They do it with strangers on a daily basis for money cause guy ask for it.

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#183 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: No, that sexualization of women in comics is the norm.

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#184 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: What is the matter with you? You didn't prove me wrong over anything. Only in your mind did I abandon because I lost, as you can see I'm far from being dry of any arguments. I chose to leave because you decided to insult me by calling me a virgin and gay.

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#185 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: What is the matter with you? You didn't prove me wrong over anything. Only in your mind did I abandon because I lost, as you can see I'm far from being dry of any arguments. I chose to leave because you decided to insult me by calling me a virgin and gay.

Here's what I said on that : " What in the actual f*** are you talking about? I asked him if he was male. Are you suggesting gay people (which have nothing to do with the discussion) aren't male? That being gay is a bad thing, therefore it's an insult? That's incredibly offensive bud. And no, it wasn't aimed as an insult. If he was a woman he might not know how a man's urges and impulses work, hence the confusion as to whether or not all men would like to have sex (they do, it's biology.) And I already explained why I assumed he was a virgin.

You're the one claiming it's bad to be a virgin by painting my assumption as an insult. So what if he was? I was trying to understand where he was coming from."

Could this seriously just be a case of misunderstanding?

@jaken7: I said sorry lol. I have a chatter box problem the second the words drawing enter my head. I just always like to give more info in for further reference

No worries! Lol. I get that way too sometimes.

@jaken7: A straight female would gladly do the same. I live in atlanta. Just today I walked down the street and a girl was going around going "I will do wonders for 10 dollars!" Prostitutes anybody? They do it with strangers on a daily basis for money cause guy ask for it.

Wow that's crazy! I haven't seen much of that here in Seattle.

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#186 Posted by MetalJimmor (6428 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

What in the actual f*** are you talking about? I asked him if he was male. Are you suggesting gay people (which have nothing to do with the discussion) aren't male? That being gay is a bad thing, therefore it's an insult? That's incredibly offensive bud. And no, it wasn't aimed as an insult. If he was a woman he might not know how a man's urges and impulses work, hence the confusion as to whether or not all men would like to have sex (they do, it's biology.) And I already explained why I assumed he was a virgin.

"Not a man" "Gay" "Virgin" are all insults that people throw around when discussing sexuality. While none of these things are inherently a bad thing to be it's socially considered an insult to be implied as these things when you're not. Now you're trying to invalidate what I'm saying by painting me as a bigot, which I also find offensive.

You didn't mention gay though. Sorry for that. I didn't get a lot of sleep in the last few days and my mind is hazy.

Even if it wasn't intended as an insult, you should definitely have worded it better. The way you asked if he was "SERIOUSLY" a man either implies you were questioning his gender or calling him a liar.

So you wouldn't like to have sex with an attractive woman? Most men will keep it to themselves, I'm not claiming all men are sex offenders, just that we have very basic needs down to a biological and genetic level. I'm sorry, I just plain disagree with you. As a male, I can tell you that i, along with everyone I have met, would most certainly like to have sex with a beautiful women. That's my experience. It's barely a "stereotype." And what does that tell you about us if it's so prevalent in media and marketing? Sex sells, and we want it.

I would not, no. I'm shy and I don't feel comfortable with requests like that because of it. I am however a young male who suffers from the same biological needs any other male feels. The point is that just being male doesn't automatically make you willing to jump into bed with any random woman. Men have a hugely varying set of personalities, life views, and desires in life. We're not all out for sex and sex alone.

As for your point that it being prevalent in the media makes it true, does that also mean all women are as sexually aggressive as Starfire was portrayed? You're accepting one branch of stereotypes while trying to denounce another.

It's also not just us who want sex in our entertainment. Sex does sell, but not only to men. Otherwise how do you explain the romance novel industry? Or a good amount of anime, for that matter.

I didn't intend to be in this thread for this long, but I suppose I should actually make a statement on the discussion at hand. Yes, women are sexually objectified in comicbooks. Men are too, but to a less prominent extent. Men being big and muscle bound is a male power fantasy, but them being in spandex with their bulges showing is not. At least not to me. I've often felt inferior looking at Batman or Superman's bodies, just the same way some women feel inferior comparing themselves to the comicbook women. Men in comics are impossibly built and perfectly handsome and the women are impossibly fit and attractive.

I've yet to meet a girl that doesn't find Bruce Wayne attractive, so the idea that the characters aren't drawn to be attractive to women is just bollocks. The characters are meant to be perfect males going by standards no real life man could ever hope to live up to. The only reason they don't get as much stigma attached as the comic women is because we as a society have different standards for what is acceptable to portray between the genders.

I suppose my point is that it's a comicbook world where everyone is physically perfect. It's part of the genre, and is how must forms of visual media work.

Besides, there's plenty of other forms of fiction that are designed to cater to women and their sexual desires. Have you ever read a romance novel? I have, and the way men are depicted isn't always flattering.

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#187 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Regardless of any excuse you make, you know you meant that as an insult. How does that NOT come off as offensive? You were being blatantly patronizing to me, or at least attempting to be.

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#188 Posted by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Prostitution has lately been getting out of hand down here. To the point someone can openly come out and advertise and nobody cares. It is like people forgot prostitution is illegal.

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#189 Posted by Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: I wish we could do thumb ups here. This is what I wanted to say but could not convey it. lol

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#190 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

What in the actual f*** are you talking about? I asked him if he was male. Are you suggesting gay people (which have nothing to do with the discussion) aren't male? That being gay is a bad thing, therefore it's an insult? That's incredibly offensive bud. And no, it wasn't aimed as an insult. If he was a woman he might not know how a man's urges and impulses work, hence the confusion as to whether or not all men would like to have sex (they do, it's biology.) And I already explained why I assumed he was a virgin.

"Not a man" "Gay" "Virgin" are all insults that people throw around when discussing sexuality. While none of these things are inherently a bad thing to be it's socially considered an insult to be implied as these things when you're not. Now you're trying to invalidate what I'm saying by painting me as a bigot, which I also find offensive.

True, your assumption was probably more warranted. You're right I was, I apologize. I get touchy when it comes to homosexuality as a topic. I was literally just screaming at the TV when a dumb woman came on and started talking about how the federal government shouldn't have made gay marriage recognized at the federal level because it's supposed to be between a man and a woman and it's all about the children.

You didn't mention gay though. Sorry for that. I didn't get a lot of sleep in the last few days and my mind is hazy.

No problem I get the same way.

Even if it wasn't intended as an insult, you should definitely have worded it better. The way you asked if he was "SERIOUSLY" a man either implies you were questioning his gender or calling him a liar.



We are in complete agreement, I've already stated as such and I'm paying for it now.

So you wouldn't like to have sex with an attractive woman? Most men will keep it to themselves, I'm not claiming all men are sex offenders, just that we have very basic needs down to a biological and genetic level. I'm sorry, I just plain disagree with you. As a male, I can tell you that i, along with everyone I have met, would most certainly like to have sex with a beautiful women. That's my experience. It's barely a "stereotype." And what does that tell you about us if it's so prevalent in media and marketing? Sex sells, and we want it.

I would not, no. I'm shy and I don't feel comfortable with requests like that because of it. I am however a young male who suffers from the same biological needs any other male feels. The point is that just being male doesn't automatically make you willing to jump into bed with any random woman. Men have a hugely varying set of personalities, life views, and desires in life. We're not all out for sex and sex alone.

I guess I hadn't thought about that.

As for your point that it being prevalent in the media makes it true, does that also mean all women are as sexually aggressive as Starfire was portrayed? You're accepting one branch of stereotypes while trying to denounce another.

Oh no, no, no. Comics are targeted towards men, and most men would want a woman to be more like Starfire in that regard. That was my point.

It's also not just us who want sex in our entertainment. Sex does sell, but not only to men. Otherwise how do you explain the romance novel industry? Or a good amount of anime, for that matter.

I didn't intend to be in this thread for this long, but I suppose I should actually make a statement on the discussion at hand. Yes, women are sexually objectified in comicbooks. Men are too, but to a less prominent extent. Men being big and muscle bound is a male power fantasy, but them being in spandex with their bulges showing is not. At least not to me. I've often felt inferior looking at Batman or Superman's bodies, just the same way some women feel inferior comparing themselves to the comicbook women. Men in comics are impossibly built and perfectly handsome and the women are impossibly fit and attractive.

I've yet to meet a girl that doesn't find Bruce Wayne attractive, so the idea that the characters aren't drawn to be attractive to women is just bollocks. The characters are meant to be perfect males going by standards no real life man could ever hope to live up to. The only reason they don't get as much stigma attached as the comic women is because we as a society have different standards for what is acceptable to portray between the genders.

I suppose my point is that it's a comicbook world where everyone is physically perfect. It's part of the genre, and is how must forms of visual media work.

Besides, there's plenty of other forms of fiction that are designed to cater to women and their sexual desires. Have you ever read a romance novel? I have, and the way men are depicted isn't always flattering.

I completely agree. Most media is targeted towards any genders most primal desires and insecurities. However this thread is titled, "Over-Sexualization of Women in Comics."

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#191 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Regardless of any excuse you make, you know you meant that as an insult. How does that NOT come off as offensive? You were being blatantly patronizing to me, or at least attempting to be.

I get it, you were personally offended. I should've worded it better and I apologize. Do you feel like a better man now? Maybe let's talk about sexualization of women in comics (you know the title of the thread you created)? Or do you want to just keep letting us all know you're still upset from a perceived insult I threw in your direction yesterday?

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#192 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Your comment was intended to be insulting, patronizing, and condescending and you know it. Anybody can go back, read it, and least draw that much from it. The best part is that you're STILL being condescending towards me.

The topic? You're joking right? You still haven't given me any solid point against my previous post. Women in comics dress are not over sexualized, because women in real life dress just as they do. All you said was "Not most women though, while most women in comics do"

And to that, I said there are PLENTY of women in comics that AREN'T oversexualized, just like in real life. What can you not understand about this? Go to California. Or Florida. Hell, even in my state there are women that dress slutty.

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#193 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Your comment was intended to be insulting, patronizing, and condescending and you know it. Anybody can go back, read it, and least draw that much from it. The best part is that you're STILL being condescending towards me.

You haven't earned my respect yet.

The topic? You're joking right? You still haven't given me any solid point against my previous post. Women in comics dress are not over sexualized, because women in real life dress just as they do. All you said was "Not most women though, while most women in comics do"

And to that, I said there are PLENTY of women in comics that AREN'T oversexualized, just like in real life. What can you not understand about this? Go to California. Or Florida. Hell, even in my state there are women that dress slutty.

Um...yeah. How is that not a solid point?

You can't deny that the majority of women in comics are dressed slutty and awesome. But there are some exceptions (like I provided an example of.)

You also can't deny that the majority of women in the real world dress appropriately and have bodily dimensions that are expected of a human being. But there are some exceptions (like the girl at your college.)

Can you see how that isn't equivalent? If not, you'd fail at alchemy (high five to anyone who gets that.)

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#194 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I could care less about your respect, now that I think about it. I'll just have respect for myself and others and be fine.

The majority of women in comics don't dress slutty. Only about half of the ones we SEE dress "slutty" (not that a one-piece is even slutty).

What you're doing is taking a small portion and applying it to the whole. What if another race from a different planet judged our women on only our celebrities? They'd think all our women dressed slutty, which obviously isn't the case.

And that's what these superhero women essentially are in their world- celebrities. How is it any different from what Katy Perry, Mariah Carrey, or LOADS of others do? It's real life.

I really don't understand what's so hard to grasp.

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#195 Edited by MetalJimmor (6428 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

Oh no, no, no. Comics are targeted towards men, and most men would want a woman to be more like Starfire in that regard. That was my point.

I wouldn't say that, honestly. Everyone who was a fan of Starfire, male and female, myself included, were very upset with that scene, and indeed much of the early books in the Red Hood and the Outlaws series. The writer of the series was also critically slammed for his depiction of Starfire, and the various internet communities who are even vaguely aware of the comicbook world erupted into hate and anger over it. I can't think of anyone who outright liked seeing Starfire depicted like that. There are some who can defend the writer's choice, but no one would do so on the basis that women should act that way. Those arguments generally focus around the idea that she isn't human and doesn't have our set of morals concerning sexuality.

So while yes, it's a good showing for women being objectified, it wasn't exactly well received by the comicbook audience that such blatant sexualization is suppose to cater toward. When we are discussing objectification in comicbooks I feel it's important to also pay attention to how the readers responded to the character depictions, and not just the depictions themselves.

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#196 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I could care less about your respect, now that I think about it. I'll just have respect for myself and others and be fine.

The majority of women in comics don't dress slutty. Only about half of the ones we SEE dress "slutty" (not that a one-piece is even slutty).

What you're doing is taking a small portion and applying it to the whole. What if another race from a different planet judged our women on only our celebrities? They'd think all our women dressed slutty, which obviously isn't the case.

And that's what these superhero women essentially are in their world- celebrities. How is it any different from what Katy Perry, Mariah Carrey, or LOADS of others do? It's real life.

I really don't understand what's so hard to grasp.

That's what you're doing. And it's ok because background civilians in the panels are dressed normal? I honestly don't understand why it's so hard for you to grasp either.

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#197 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: What? That's what YOU'RE doing. You say women in comics are over sexualized because most of portrayed as being overly slutty, when it happens ALL THE TIME IN REAL LIFE. Is real life over sexualized now? Are you trolling or something?

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#198 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: What? That's what YOU'RE doing. You say women in comics are over sexualized because most of portrayed as being overly slutty, when it happens ALL THE TIME IN REAL LIFE. Is real life over sexualized now? Are you trolling or something?

You hear that guys? imthedamnbatman thinks that the majority of women in life are over-sexualized sluts. Stop slut-shaming and exaggerating to the point of absurdity. I've honestly been wondering if you've been trolling as well. If so, you did a damn good job (this is the part where you post a picture of a troll face to cover your tracks.)

@jaken7:

Oh no, no, no. Comics are targeted towards men, and most men would want a woman to be more like Starfire in that regard. That was my point.

I wouldn't say that, honestly. Everyone who was a fan of Starfire, male and female, myself included, were very upset with that scene, and indeed much of the early books in the Red Hood and the Outlaws series. The writer of the series was also critically slammed for his depiction of Starfire, and the various internet communities who are even vaguely aware of the comicbook world erupted into hate and anger over it. I can't think of anyone who outright liked seeing Starfire depicted like that. There are some who can defend the writer's choice, but no one would do so on the basis that women should act that way. Those arguments generally focus around the idea that she isn't human and doesn't have our set of morals concerning sexuality.

So while yes, it's a good showing for women being objectified, it wasn't exactly well received by the comicbook audience that such blatant sexualization is suppose to cater toward. When we are discussing objectification in comicbooks I feel it's important to also pay attention to how the readers responded to the character depictions, and not just the depictions themselves.

Fair enough. Poor example I suppose, Scott Lobdell's an asshat.

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#199 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: You're putting words in my mouth. I did NOT say that. At all. You're resorting to Ad Hominem, so I'm leaving this debate again. When you can show some maturity while debating, PM me and we'll continue. You didn't win this debate. Not even close.

But, if it makes you feel better, you should print it out and have your Mom put it on the fridge.

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#200 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: You're putting words in my mouth. I did NOT say that. At all. You're resorting to Ad Hominem, so I'm leaving this debate again. You didn't win this debate. Not even close.

But, if it makes you feel better, you should print it out and have your Mom put it on the fridge.

That's what you've been strongly implying. That it's ok that the majority of women in comics are over-sexualized, because that's how it is in the real world (which I'm convinced is not where you live.)

I did in fact. That's what happens during a debate, you leave, you lose (did you ever take it in school?)

But sure, I'll have my mum do just that.