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#51 Posted by the_stegman (40086 posts) - - Show Bio

So, guess I'll give my opinion on the subject. Are women sexualized in comics? Hell yes, they are also sexualized in movies, music videos, magazines and advertisements, because sex sells. And yes, they are sexualized much more than men are. Having said that..I have no problem with it. Seeing Power Girl's butt or Wonder Woman's ample cleavage doesn't make me respect them any less, they're still very interesting characters and strong individuals. Having women in media whether it's comics or anything else posed provocatively doesn't make me look at them as just sex objects. Harley Quinn for instance in her current series isn't exactly modest about her attire, but I'm so caught up in how funny and awesome she is, I don't even notice that oh, btw, she's in short shorts and a tank top. Sometimes people blow this entire topic out of proportion.

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#52 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman said:

@jaken7: Not by image, but by principle he is.

And are you just ignoring my other examples now?

He's in a frigging lounge chair on the beach while Starfire is giving that kid under the tree a boner.

Doesn't feel great does it? As for Superman,

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Scott Lobdell loves to over-sexualize any gender apparently. Yes I was able to find ONE equivalent example. Him BENCH-PRESSING THE EARTH! Is a POWER FANTASY. And I don't know what Batman scan you're referring to.

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#53 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (755 posts) - - Show Bio

Haven't guys in comics always been built? They do have more muscle mass than women. Women in comics these days have been getting some pretty bad treatment though...

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#54 Edited by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

So, guess I'll give my opinion on the subject. Are women sexualized in comics? Hell yes, they are also sexualized in movies, music videos, magazines and advertisements, because sex sells. And yes, they are sexualized much more than men are. Having said that..I have no problem with it. Seeing Power Girl's butt or Wonder Woman's ample cleavage doesn't make me respect them any less, they're still very interesting characters and strong individuals. Having women in media whether it's comics or anything else posed provocatively doesn't make me look at them as just sex objects. Harley Quinn for instance in her current series isn't exactly modest about her attire, but I'm so caught up in how funny and awesome she is, I don't even notice that oh, btw, she's in short shorts and a tank top. Sometimes people blow this entire topic out of proportion.

Yeah, I gain more respect for their bodies!

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#55 Posted by the_stegman (40086 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

So, guess I'll give my opinion on the subject. Are women sexualized in comics? Hell yes, they are also sexualized in movies, music videos, magazines and advertisements, because sex sells. And yes, they are sexualized much more than men are. Having said that..I have no problem with it. Seeing Power Girl's butt or Wonder Woman's ample cleavage doesn't make me respect them any less, they're still very interesting characters and strong individuals. Having women in media whether it's comics or anything else posed provocatively doesn't make me look at them as just sex objects. Harley Quinn for instance in her current series isn't exactly modest about her attire, but I'm so caught up in how funny and awesome she is, I don't even notice that oh, btw, she's in short shorts and a tank top. Sometimes people blow this entire topic out of proportion.

Yeah, I gain more respect for their bodies!

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#56 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: There are multiple, where Alfred is fixing his wounds. Hush, multiple times in the New 52 series.

And how is that not offensive to men? The idea we'll nail any hot woman that flaunts her stuff? That's just as sexualized as whatever Starfire does. Apparently men are just sex pigs without standards that will f*** anything that walks. Again, as I said, it's the principle.

And does it even matter? I still view them as the same characters. Not all women in comics are sexualized, just like in real life only SOME women are sexualized. Are you going to go on a rant about how LIFE is over sexualized? Because I know plenty of women at my college who dress and have a reputation for being slutty. Has it ever occured to you that these women in comics WANT to dress like that, just like real women sometimes do?

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#57 Posted by AweSam (7534 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no such thing as "over-sexualization" when it comes to marketing. Male comic readers outnumber female comic readers 9-1.

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#58 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: There are multiple, where Alfred is fixing his wounds. Hush, multiple times in the New 52 series.

Yeah, because that's equivalent

And how is that not offensive to men? The idea we'll nail any hot woman that flaunts her stuff? That's just as sexualized as whatever Starfire does. Apparently men are just sex pigs without standards that will f*** anything that walks. Again, as I said, it's the principle.

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You're not offended by Starfire being written to just offer her body up to whomever, you're offended that Roy got the awesome opportunity and shrugged his shoulders and said "sure."

What is wrong with you? You are so close-minded.

And does it even matter?I still view them as the same characters. Not all women in comics are sexualized, just like in real life only SOME women are sexualized. Are you going to go on a rant about how LIFE is over sexualized? Because I know plenty of women at my college who dress and have a reputation for being slutty. Has it ever occured to you that these women in comics WANT to dress like that, just like real women sometimes do?

YOU CREATED THIS THREAD! Holy balls!

And for the record, I enjoy it, I really do. We men are predictable creatures and I enjoy seeing them half-naked (or full.) But to pretend it's not prevalent in comics and to say that men are just as sexualized means you don't read comics.

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#59 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: That's not being close minded. It's just assuming any guy would jump on any hot girl that walks by and asks for sex. It's insulting and makes men look ignorant.

My point is a new one; women OR men aren't sexualized in comics. There are plenty of examples in real life of people looking and acting like this. You can't really call it over sexualization if it happens in real life.

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#61 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman said:

@jaken7: That's not being close minded. It's just assuming any guy would jump on any hot girl that walks by and asks for sex. It's insulting and makes men look ignorant.

Are you seriously a straight male? Or just a virgin? Probably both I guess. Let me tell you, that is EXACTLY what EVERY straight guy would do.

My point is a new one; women OR men aren't sexualized in comics. There are plenty of examples in real life of people looking and acting like this. You can't really call it over sexualization if it happens in real life.

They aren't? I'm pretty sure we've been over this. And no, there isn't and no, it doesn't.

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#62 Posted by Dr_Harlequin (755 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: If that's what makes you feel better. We're done here, now that you've stooped to insulting me.

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#64 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman said:

@jaken7: If that's what makes you feel better. We're done here, now that you've stooped to insulting me.

I honestly didn't mean to insult you, I was guessing where your perspective was coming from. But it's ok if you want to concede.

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#65 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I'm not "conceding" anything. I'm leaving before I make you feel like a stain on the canvas of humanity, because you attempted to insult me. Which IS what it was, a sad attempt to call me a virgin basement dweller, as if that even pertains to the argument.

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#66 Edited by MarcosVergara14 (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

Blah blah, something about women and their suffrage and how they're not equal to men, blah blah. Lol!

But seriously, women still beat out men in the over-sexualization. When's the last time you saw a panel with a male hero taking a shower? Apparently women are just so much dirtier after crime-fighting. When's the last time you saw a panel that was just short of revealing a male character's private parts? Or have a male character take 10 panels to put on their damn costume? While I think a lot of feminist ideas are completely one-sided, comic fans don't really have a leg to stand on.

The last time i saw a men taking a shower, It was Loki Agent of Asgard #1 that came out last week so...

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#67 Edited by 2chimcha3 (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

So, guess I'll give my opinion on the subject. Are women sexualized in comics? Hell yes, they are also sexualized in movies, music videos, magazines and advertisements, because sex sells. And yes, they are sexualized much more than men are. Having said that..I have no problem with it. Seeing Power Girl's butt or Wonder Woman's ample cleavage doesn't make me respect them any less, they're still very interesting characters and strong individuals. Having women in media whether it's comics or anything else posed provocatively doesn't make me look at them as just sex objects. Harley Quinn for instance in her current series isn't exactly modest about her attire, but I'm so caught up in how funny and awesome she is, I don't even notice that oh, btw, she's in short shorts and a tank top. Sometimes people blow this entire topic out of proportion.

I like this response the most. I read one of the links and while my opinion is now wavered a bit, I still think it's made too big of a deal. I do facepalm every time I see an overly sexualized cover of a female hero or random cleavage because it is dumb and wrong. But making a beautiful character is nothing bad. The guys look good and so do the women. What's wrong with that? Sure there are steps that still need to be taken to make females less sexualized (stopping the but poses, change the costumes a bit), but it really isn't as big of a deal as people say it is imo.

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#68 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthedamnbatman: Making you leave your own thread? That seems like a win to me. And you need to take me seriously when I tell you I didn't mean to insult you, and don't put words in my mouth. When I was a virgin, I might've felt the same way and thought that sex was no big deal (or at least played it off that way.) I was trying to see where you were coming from. I'm sorry it came out so harshly, it was a poor way to put it. But, by all means, I'd love to see how you "make me a stain on humanity." @marcosvergara14: For Tom Hiddleston fans obviously. Lol. Big step for the comic industry!

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#69 Posted by Wolfrazer (16003 posts) - - Show Bio

Whatever happened to just enjoying the stories comics tell?

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#70 Edited by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I didn't say sex was no big deal. I have standards. I've only had sex with women I have known well for years, which accounts to two women total. Your type, the type that has sex with any hot girl flaunting her body at you at a party, is the type to end up with unplanned pregnancies and STD's. In other words, you have a misconstrued idea of what sex is meant to be.

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#71 Edited by fodigg (6244 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

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BB

That's brilliant

and

Thread Reminds me of this Avengers poster with the men drawn in female poses and female drawn in male poses, LOL

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and a hundred other tumblr memes where this is addressed.

Also, "no homo" is a bullcrap phrase that needs to leave the lexicon.

Loading Video...

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#72 Posted by ccraft (12437 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

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BB

That's brilliant

I'll never look at comics the same way again...

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#73 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3973 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: Except women don't like men to be sexualized like that, women like men to be sexualized by showing off their muscles and appearing strong, which is exactly what is being conveyed.

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#74 Edited by Joygirl (21036 posts) - - Show Bio

Blah blah, roided men are a male fantasy rather than female, blah blah, targeted towards adolescent boys, blah blah sex sells blah blah titties. This has been done 14,627,716,803 other times already.

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#75 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: I thought I'd seen this thread before myself with the exact same point. But I couldn't find it.@imthedamnbatman: Only one girl myself, and we dated for close to a year(of course it was only a month until we did the diddly-deed. lol) And she didn't look anything like women in comics (because that's completely unrealistic and doesn't exist.) So no. You assume wrong.

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#76 Posted by Black_Arrow (10219 posts) - - Show Bio

Whatever happened to just enjoying the stories comics tell?

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#78 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow said:

@wolfrazer said:

Whatever happened to just enjoying the stories comics tell?

To pretend there aren't tropes and hot topics in said stories is ignorant. It's worth discussing.

If all we ever did was enjoy the stories, there wouldn't be internet forums. Lol.

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#79 Posted by ccraft (12437 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Blah blah, roided men are a male fantasy rather than female, blah blah, targeted towards adolescent boys, blah blah sex sells blah blah titties. This has been done 14,627,716,803 other times already.

I would have to agree with the male fantasy point, but in real life men on steroids just looks awful and I'm sure women think that too.

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#80 Posted by ImpurestCheese (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Yep we do. Still it would be nice to see some women who fit the normal body shape rather than big breasted women in skimpy costumes. Give me Songbird over Ms. Marvel any day.

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#81 Edited by AweSam (7534 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@black_arrow said:

@wolfrazer said:

Whatever happened to just enjoying the stories comics tell?

It's possible to enjoy something while acknowledging its flaws.

Are you insisting that over-sexualization is a flaw?

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#82 Edited by LyraFay (2643 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

No Caption Provided

BB

That's brilliant

I'll never look at comics the same way again...

This is good. I would argue that women in comics are in a point, where just sex doll fantasies or strong heroines, however either one of these exist without having a writer/artist pushing one more than other, look at Catwoman, she was one of DC top heroines, now she's being degraded to a sex pot fantasy. Speaking of fantasies, when a female heroine is cast for a superhero movie, immediately fanboys judge the actress on her looks and if she is sexy enough to play it. Look at Gal Gadot, she got cast as Wonder Woman, she was criticised because her boobs weren't big enough or curvy enough, basically she wasn't a male comic fan fantasy. But no women can look like a comic female, its impossible.

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#84 Edited by Wolfrazer (16003 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Never said to ignore it. It's just...these discussions can sometimes just really go off the wall over something that isn't the focus of what the story is telling. Personally i'll admit, I don't really care what a character looks like...not the reason I read a story, I read for what it tells. I mean can I hate a character's appearance? Sure, but i'll just roll it off the back and continue reading the story overall if it's good.

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#85 Posted by aslan10000 (108 posts) - - Show Bio

Allow me to defend the case of women in comics. Superman's masculine build is not the same as Power Girl's boob window, Just as Ryu's physique is not the same as the unnatural looking breasts in Dead or Alive.

A shirtless Kratos out doing battle with monsters in God of War for example is anything but turning on girls, it's for the sake of the mature male power fantasy.

The dude is the shirtless barbarian fighting monsters, just as wants to be Superman... AND wants to "Be With" Wonder Woman.

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#86 Edited by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Yep we do. Still it would be nice to see some women who fit the normal body shape rather than big breasted women in skimpy costumes. Give me Songbird over Ms. Marvel any day.

It's not exactly "normal" but I REALLY love this character:

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Anna Maria Marconi! She's brilliant, strong, beautiful, an amazing cook, and really funny. I'm going to be sad to see her go when Pete comes back. Who would've thought she would be Spider-Man's girlfriend when we're used to this:

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#87 Posted by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I like Peter's old girlfriends!

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#88 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Never said to ignore it. It's just...these discussions can sometimes just really go off the wall over something that isn't the focus of what the story is telling. Personally i'll admit, I don't really care what a character looks like...not the reason I read a story, I read for what it tells. I mean can I hate a character's appearance? Sure, but i'll just roll it off the back and continue reading the story overall if it's good.

I honestly love sexy women in comics, but as you can see I'll be the first to admit it's ridiculous. But that's just a part of comics.

@mitran said:

@awesam said:

@mitran said:

@black_arrow said:

@wolfrazer said:

Whatever happened to just enjoying the stories comics tell?

It's possible to enjoy something while acknowledging its flaws.

Are you insisting that over-sexualization is a flaw?

It would take quite a few more than one post to insist something, so no. Although I do personally find it a flaw, @jaken7 worded it better as tropes and hot topics.

Thanks. We all know we'd miss these depictions if they were gone. Not exactly a "problem" but it's not like it isn't absurd.

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#89 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I like Peter's old girlfriends!

I do too! Anna Maria's just refreshing.

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#90 Posted by ImpurestCheese (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I admit as a homosexual woman they are attractive but it would be nice not to be reminded that I'm flat chested at 25

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#91 Edited by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@wolverine08 said:

@jaken7: I like Peter's old girlfriends!

I do too! Anna Maria's just refreshing.

Yeah, she is a nice change of pace from the usual indeed, but we always need to go back to those bodacious babes at some point!

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#92 Posted by Wolfrazer (16003 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: What ISN'T ridiculous in comic world? :P

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#93 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@wolverine08 said:

@jaken7: I like Peter's old girlfriends!

I do too! Anna Maria's just refreshing.

Yeah, she is a nice change of pace from the usual indeed, but we always need to go back to those bodacious babes at some point!

For sure.

@jaken7: I admit as a homosexual woman they are attractive but it would be nice not to be reminded that I'm flat chested at 25

I'll shamefully admit that as a straight man, I find a young, homosexual woman who is a comic book fan..."interesting." (that's not really the word, but the real word's too embarrassing.) But that only proves my point that we humans are very predictable creatures.

I have a couple questions for you. Do you think that being a gay woman has made it easier for you to be a comic book reader since you're attracted to women as much as straight men are (who the books are mainly marketed for.) Do you read Batwoman? If so, what do you think of it's depiction of lesbian women? Do you read Batgirl? If so, what do you think of Barbara's transgender roommate (just as a member of the LGBT community yourself.)

Also...what do you think of the U.S. Federal Government's big news today!!!?? :D

I appreciate your perspective!

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#94 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio
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#95 Posted by ImpurestCheese (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: As a Brit the thing on the US doesn't affect me but I do applaud it. And I started reading while I was heterosexual so I can't say anything on that.

As for the whole easier to read thing, I don't think it makes to much of a difference to me although now my orientation runs parallel with the main demographic. I'd have to say character is as important if not more so then aesthetics, my favourite title at current is Superior Foes just to drive the point in.

Haven't read Batgirl sorry. :-)

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#96 Edited by lykopis (10845 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@jaken7 said:

@billy_batson said:

Lol, again someone brings up the false equivalence.

Superhero comics are usually done by males for males. The male superheroes are a power fantasy while female superheroes are wank fantasy.

Here's an often posted strip about the subject:

No Caption Provided

BB

That's brilliant

and

@silent_bomber said:

Thread Reminds me of this Avengers poster with the men drawn in female poses and female drawn in male poses, LOL

No Caption Provided

and a hundred other tumblr memes where this is addressed.

Also, "no homo" is a bullcrap phrase that needs to leave the lexicon.

Loading Video...

Pretty much all of this. Thanks to all of you for sharing it.

I don't waste my time debating with people who think women are not over-sexualized in comics -- and that goes for all forms of media (outside of pornography and Playboy because -- you know -- that's the industry).

And no -- super huge muscled men isn't attractive -- it's creepy considering how ridiculous some depictions are. It's male power fantasy -- little Jimmy looks at Superman and decides to become big and ripped. Guess what little Jimmy wants to do when he sees Mary Jane?

And the few depictions in comics which showcase men in "sexualized" positions don't suddenly "even" the field. I would rather the field be gone, period.

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#97 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: As a Brit the thing on the US doesn't affect me but I do applaud it. And I started reading while I was heterosexual so I can't say anything on that.

As for the whole easier to read thing, I don't think it makes to much of a difference to me although now my orientation runs parallel with the main demographic. I'd have to say character is as important if not more so then aesthetics, my favourite title at current is Superior Foes just to drive the point in.

Haven't read Batgirl sorry. :-)

Ah, ok. Cool. So you aren't from the US? Would you say the general populous of whatever country you're from are more or less accepting of LGBT than what you've been exposed to of Americans? Do you think that made it easier to accept who you were or less so? (if you don't feel comfortable answering any of these, please don't feel obligated.)

I guess I'm just curious because, I was partially raised by lesbian grandmothers. It's a huge part of my family. But they're old, they don't read comics, and they're American. Unfortunately the only thing I can think of when I think of lesbians are Americans who are either found on NSFW websites, or my friggin' grandmothers and people like them. I've never met anyone that not only shares my interests, but is from a different country!

I hope my curiosity isn't too annoying.

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#98 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Great points! The comic industry (unfortunately) really loves to nail down their target audience. Power fantasy vs sexual fantasy is a pretty interesting topic. I've had fun (and frustration) debating about it.

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#99 Posted by SpitfirePanda (2573 posts) - - Show Bio

As someone new to comics, I came into this expecting this sort of stuff. It's silly, and I can see why women would be offended by it. But it is what it is, as far as I'm concerned. But personally, if your a warrior and your job is to go out and fight dangerous evils then why wouldn't you wear something more protective?

The first comic volume I've read in the New 52 (and currently the only volume I've read from DC so far) is the first volume of super girl. While I enjoyed it, they seemed to have gone out of their way to show how durable her form fitting outfit is. While thats all well and good, her legs are completely vulnerable to attacks from powerful characters. If powergirl or supergirl ever have to go toe to toe with doomsday, couldn't his bone spikes pierce their skin? Couldn't he just cut off their legs with those things? At the very least, they should have been given a full suit like superman. And as for starfire, I grew up with the animated teen titans and I much prefer that version of the character based on what I've read from wiki entries on the comic version.

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#100 Posted by ccraft (12437 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Yep we do. Still it would be nice to see some women who fit the normal body shape rather than big breasted women in skimpy costumes. Give me Songbird over Ms. Marvel any day.

I agree, have you ever seen the barbie doll compared to what real women look like? It would be nice to see some normal looking women in comics, looks isn't every thing it's the personality that makes a woman truly beautiful. It's impossible for most men to get a women who looks like WW anyways so why not make women look a little more realistic?

http://www.businessinsider.com/barbie-doll-with-real-womans-measurements-2013-7