Off THEIR Minds: Can Superheroes that Betray a Team Be Forgiven?

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gmanfromheck

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Edited By gmanfromheck
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KainScion

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#1  Edited By KainScion

depends on the popuarity of the character (out of comics)

depends on how powerful the character is. not a lot of people would give the guy that can pull the planet the stink eye. (in comics)

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Inverno

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#2  Edited By Inverno

Depends on the reason for their betrayal. If they were forced to betray the team (mentally controlled or coercion) that is forgivable. If they suddenly feel evil or reveal they were evil all along, then its really bad writing.

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ReddKnave

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#3  Edited By ReddKnave

Who could say no to that face?

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thechessclub

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#4  Edited By thechessclub

YES!! Snyder referenced Tower of Babel=P *fist pumps*

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TDK_1997

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#5  Edited By TDK_1997

It depends a lot.

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KainScion

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#6  Edited By KainScion

@ReddKnave: her

No Caption Provided
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Hunter114

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#7  Edited By Hunter114

"There's nothing worse than being betrayed by someone you work closely with"

I get the feeling that Babs has been eating G-Man's snacks again... and he's not happy about it :P

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deadpool6_6_6

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#8  Edited By deadpool6_6_6

@TDK_1997 said:

It depends a lot.

True, it depends how the character betrays em to know if they'll be trust worthy or not.

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blur1528

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#9  Edited By blur1528

That last picture. It killed me. So glad you ended with that.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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I'd say put the character of ice if they betray the team. I'm sick of seeing the same old heroes getting "evil" and then forgiven in the same page as their betrayal.

I'd say a stint in the Suicide Squad and Thunderbolts teams would make these repeat offenders think twice before betraying the team again.

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girth

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#11  Edited By girth

This topic reminded me of this.

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SupBatz

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#12  Edited By SupBatz

Huh, I was expecting at least one person to reference to Scarlet Witch's betrayal.

But nothing. Not even an addressing of possible betrayal due to intense grief or madness.

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NightFang3

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#13  Edited By NightFang3

@TDK_1997 said:

It depends a lot.

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Solarflare32

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#14  Edited By Solarflare32

Treachery is a common thing in the x men just look at all the traitors we have seen over the years. At least 5 x men have been horsemen of apcolypse.

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deadpool25mm

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#15  Edited By deadpool25mm

Depends who it is.

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OldDude

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#16  Edited By OldDude

Totally agree with Mr Snyder... Batman can do whatever the hell he wants because he is Batman. Superman can also have some fun being evil sometimes...The rest of the heroes should be careful though...

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The Black Hood

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#17  Edited By The Black Hood

For this particular topic I think intent has a huge amount to do with whether or not the character should be forgiven. With "Tower of Babel", Batman had contingencies in place in case his teammates went rogue. These plans were stolen and used by Ra's. Batman's intent was to have a plan in place. On the other hand, Gambit took payment to help the marauders murder innocent mutants. His intent was to receive payment in exchange for murder. So I think there is a huge difference between the two. One is a major lapse in judgment and the other is.... well.... MASS #$*%*#$ MURDER.

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Wowlock

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#18  Edited By Wowlock

Outside of the comics , it depends on how popular the storyline is . In the story, it depends on the reasons. You cannot really blame mind-controlled etc guys since they are victims too. But if they go on to betray them out of ...say greed or lust for power , well you probably think twice before trusting them.

Also...Batman. That is all.

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BlueLantern1995

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#19  Edited By BlueLantern1995

Depends...most of the time NO...but in the case of Hawkgirl and Sinestro then YES.

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kilon

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#20  Edited By kilon

they betray the team in order to protect lives. that's my opinion

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Outside_85

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#21  Edited By Outside_85

Depends on the situation of the betrayal;

Under the influence of 3rd party by drugs, brainwashing (such as Psylocke/Wolverine/Raven) is usually considered to be 'ok' by everyone save when something truly horrible has been committed and the betrayer is forgiven, mostly.

Cracking under the strain of doing what they do depends entirely on the offenses committed, like Stark/Danver's drinking problems, Roy Harpers drug problems and Scarlet Witch/Jericho bouts of insanity. They can be forgiven, but some wont.

Because the betrayer was really evil all along, like Terra I, wont be forgiven, save by those who are utterly convinced (or blinded) of the goodness within the person, even if it's not there.

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mattydeNero

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#22  Edited By mattydeNero

I'm always a big fan of the betrayal in order to infiltrate enemy territory by going deep cover, then revealing it was all part of the master plan in the end. It's been used time and time again. I think with as much history as characters have individually, forgiveness is solely based on the characters popularity, like Fialkov said.

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csl316

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#23  Edited By csl316

Mr. Fialkov is saying what we're all thinking.

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PowerHerc

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#24  Edited By PowerHerc

It's happened a few times but realistically; no.

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capfan80

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#25  Edited By capfan80

If it was against their will or a minor betrayal I'd let it pass. Some of these folks do some pretty bad things and are allowed to walk. Normal people would get life in prison for some of the betrayals that have occurred.

More importantly, I learned from autocorrect that I didn't know how to spell betrayal. THANKS COMICVINE!

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PhoenixoftheTides

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It's kind of sad that the writers acknowledge that people forget these types of events. I still remember a time when editors would make sure continuity and history is remembered.

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dewboy01

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#27  Edited By dewboy01

do most mutants get their power from mr. sinister?

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jerfro23

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#28  Edited By jerfro23

seeing as emma frost till with x-men yes they can be forgiven

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rasx

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#29  Edited By rasx

I'm sorry, will you welcome me back!

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Ganthetsward20

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#30  Edited By Ganthetsward20

They should get kicked off the team and because so many of them do it they can just make a new team of all the betrayers. Then if they do it again they wouldn't have to worry about getting kicked of the team because they all are offenders of that caliber .

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sithfrog

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#31  Edited By sithfrog

Doesn't matter in the end if the character is popular enough outside of the comics or if the company is looking for a big shake up to stir up new or increased sales. Ah, the retcon. Hal Jordan went nuts....oh never mind, he was just possessed.

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yo_yo_fun

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#32  Edited By yo_yo_fun

I love Scott Snyder's response! lol

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JamDamage

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#33  Edited By JamDamage

you snatch, you rat, you wear that jacket.

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Emperormeister734

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Treachery is terrible thing, for example Sentinel Prime killed Ironhide and the twins (in the comics) , he can never redeem himself from that. Of course betrayal always seem to be planned to find out the enemies plans and secret

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marcoalencar31

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#35  Edited By marcoalencar31

I think most of them can be forgiven if the crimes have not a lot of repercussion. Love Batman's troll face at the end. lol

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Yung ANcient One

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#36  Edited By Yung ANcient One

Yes you can trust them again because they always come back with a good excuse like

Oh I was possessed,

Well they were going to Kill so and so,

or

Oh, well... actually I never REALLY betrayed you because it was all part of my master plan.

but for me in real life

Your still a Homie(still in the team) but I dont trust you for $#!% anymore.

(+)

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batkevin74

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#37  Edited By batkevin74

They all do it! Batman, the DC gang in Identity Crisis, Hawkeye, Colossus, Gambit heck even Jarvis betrayed the Avengers. It's a staple of comics!

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THEBlaqueBasterd

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#38  Edited By THEBlaqueBasterd

@The Black Hood: the fact Gambit wasnt even IN the X-Men when he did that kinda makes the point..moot dontya think? -_-

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The Black Hood

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#39  Edited By The Black Hood

@THEBlaqueBasterd said:

@The Black Hood: the fact Gambit wasnt even IN the X-Men when he did that kinda makes the point..moot dontya think? -_-

Not in the least. If you found out someone you were hanging out with had murdered a bunch of people would you still keep hanging out with them simply because it happened before you knew them. I don't think a length of time really mitigates mass murder, but when you have someone with Wolverine's body count on your team I guess maybe that's something you're more willing to overlook.

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enigma_2099

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#40  Edited By enigma_2099

@Emperormeister734 said:

Treachery is terrible thing, for example Sentinel Prime killed Ironhide and the twins (in the comics) , he can never redeem himself from that. Of course betrayal always seem to be planned to find out the enemies plans and secret

Killing Ironhide, no he shouldn't. But I'm sorry... killing the Twins? That man deserves a medal, a National holiday, and a parade in his honor.

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PhoenixoftheTides

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@batkevin74 said:

They all do it! Batman, the DC gang in Identity Crisis, Hawkeye, Colossus, Gambit heck even Jarvis betrayed the Avengers. It's a staple of comics!

Pretty much.

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kfhrfdu_89_76k

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#42  Edited By kfhrfdu_89_76k

I think that heroes should only betray the team when mind controlled (which I`m getting tired of), if they didn`t really do anything bad at all or when there`s too much of something personal at stake. Otherwise, they`re just being huge jerks.

@ReddKnave said:

Who could say no to that face?

I don`t know...He looks like a pretty slick guy. But then again, what hero could be COMPLETELY trusted.

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Mezmero

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#43  Edited By Mezmero

Heroes can absolutely be forgiven after a betrayal. I'm reminded of the very brutal betrayal done by Yellow Jacket in older Avengers books. Hitting his wife, talking mess at his court martial, then sicking a killer robot on his own team was down right diabolical! But if he hadn't been forgiven for such heinous behavior he wouldn't have found his calling as Dr. Pym during his time with the West Coast Avengers which is hands down my favorite incarnation of Ant-Man. I'm not saying that you shouldn't draw a line at a certain point but forgiveness for super humans usually end up making them better heroes in the long run.

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htb106

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#44  Edited By htb106

Depends what they did to betray the team, if they kill another member then they don't deserve to be forgiven.

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htb106

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#45  Edited By htb106

I want to know what Brian did to betray Scott Lobdell.

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RedheadedAtrocitus

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Hehe, wow, still awesome coverage from Wonder Con :) Love it. As for the question...forgive perhaps...forget? Never!

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JonesDeini

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#47  Edited By JonesDeini

Are they mind controlled/possessed/etc.? Cuz if so that's always forgivable, apparently...

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Master_Of_Evil

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#48  Edited By Master_Of_Evil

yes just look what happened to Tony after the Armor Wars story line it cost him his friendships and his avengers membership

batman tower of babel

Sinestro in the current GL stuff

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McKnight87

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#49  Edited By McKnight87

Sure. Just ask, Vision, Gambit, Bishop, Hank Pym, Red Tornado, Terra, Red Arrow and Omni-Man.

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73ComicFan

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#50  Edited By 73ComicFan

@The Black Hood: I Agree