Off My Mind: Is it Still Murder When Characters are Resurrected?

  • 104 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for gmanfromheck
gmanfromheck

42524

Forum Posts

259238

Wiki Points

192642

Followers

Reviews: 472

User Lists: 2

Edited By gmanfromheck

From the beginning, superheroes and supervillains have fought epic battles. The villains have their crazy evil schemes usually based on ruling the world or getting revenge on someone for wronging them in the past. At times innocent lives are put at risk but, for the most part, the only damage was to property.  
 
Eventually things began to change. The villains started becoming more ruthless. It got to the point that some villains have no problem killing heroes or innocent civilians. The villains often get away but there are times they are apprehended after committing such a foul crime. We don't often see the trial but that should be the next natural step in the judicial process. If the villain isn't committed to an asylum for reasons of insanity, they should be charged with murder. 

No Caption Provided
Is it still considered murder if the victim returns to the land of the living? 
 == TEASER == 

No Caption Provided
One of the first brutal killings in comics that comes to mind is the death of Jason Todd by the Joker. Joker's sanity is a question in its own but if he was tried for the murder of Jason, would that charge hold once it was revealed that Jason came back to life? 
 
No Caption Provided
What about Crossbones? He's done some bad things as the Red Skull's main henchman. For his part in the shooting and death of Captain America, would that charge be reduced now that Steve technically didn't die? 
  
No Caption Provided
What about when Michael Pointer killed Alpha Flight when he was overtaken by the mutant energy after M Day? They have returned during the Chaos War story so clearly that means he's off the hook, right?   
 
Will Deathstroke still be responsible for the killing of Ryan Choi if he somehow manages to be resurrected? 
 
Taking another angle, what about Norman Osborn killing Gwen Stacy when he was the Green Goblin? It's debatable what actually killed her but he was the one that threw her off the George Washington Bridge. Is Gwen Stacy considered dead since, last I checked, her clone is still running around? Clones aren't really an accepted or known thing in comics. People know about the idea of a clone but are probably unaware that people can be successfully cloned. Could anyone besides Professor Miles Warren prove that the Gwen Stacy clone is just a clone and not the original? Wouldn't she have the same DNA and fingerprints? Could Osborn get an attorney to argue that he couldn't have killed Gwen since someone exists that matches the original exactly?  
 
There would have to be some sort of precedence set up for this. More and more, villains are killing heroes. We all know it's just a matter of time until they somehow come back to life. What will this mean for any villain convicted of murder? Should the verdict be based on the crime when it happened and not have anything to do if the death doesn't stick? You know there's got to be lawyers out there in the comic book universes that are considering these questions. 
 
Thanks to RazzaTazz for planting this idea into my mind.
Avatar image for afartist1973
AFArtist1973

119

Forum Posts

22

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#1  Edited By AFArtist1973

I do not think that the murder is negated because of a return.  The intent of the criminal action is there, and the results were observed.  I doubt that the Joker was remorseful that he killed jason Todd and that he was ecstatic that he was back...  The first thing that went through his mind had to have been, "Why don't you stay dead?" 
 
My two cents... --Jim

Avatar image for sesquipedalophobe
sesquipedalophobe

5417

Forum Posts

27

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By sesquipedalophobe

If I were a villain I would negate the act of murder in court with "you can't murder a dead man." It probably wouldn't work, though.

Avatar image for woodclaw
Woodclaw

256

Forum Posts

6144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#3  Edited By Woodclaw

I believe it still is murder. If a person steal and than return the stolen goods, it's still robbery under the legal POW. It's likely (but I won't bet on it) that an analogous principle applies to the murder/ressurection routine of some heroes. Granted the extraordinary (yeah right) circumstance of a resurrection can be considered a mitigation of some sort by the jury, but it's the act itself that is punished, not the existence of a corpse.
 
About the whole clones thing, that anothe can of worms entirly, which also bring about the big question "how much does the general public knows about super-science?"

Avatar image for nasher
Nasher

131

Forum Posts

92875

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 5

#4  Edited By Nasher

It has to be more along the lines of Attempted Murder surely if they are found to be alive and well after a failed attempt they recover from.  
 
If its totally ignored in the continuity then no murder took place in that particular universe.  
 
I think the grey area is when the murder took place and the writers are just too lazy or not clever enough to figure out an excuse and leave it open. 
 
Thankfully comics have seem to realized that most deadly of pace killing devices.. the court room drama.. show me a court room film that didn't drag like a sack full of T-800 endoskeletons.

Avatar image for out_of_space
Out_of_Space

778

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 11

#5  Edited By Out_of_Space

Well yeah. I think it is !

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
Avenging-X-Bolt

18530

Forum Posts

15716

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 137

#6  Edited By Avenging-X-Bolt

YES!!!!!!!!!! 
 
Avatar image for lance_uppercut
Lance Uppercut

23226

Forum Posts

2087

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 3

#7  Edited By Lance Uppercut

Sure, it's still murder. Though according to double jeopardy, you could go on to murder that person for a second time and get away with it. Thank goodness for small miracles like that. 

Avatar image for tdk_1997
TDK_1997

20456

Forum Posts

60093

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 153

User Lists: 13

#8  Edited By TDK_1997

It's a murder.

Avatar image for cptpanda29
CptPanda29

218

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By CptPanda29

Sure it's still murder, if a guy stole something from you and you got it back, he still stole it. Murder is taking a life, regardless of if you get it back or not...

Avatar image for princeimc
PrinceIMC

5506

Forum Posts

7471

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By PrinceIMC

I don't think it negates the murder but I think it could be a double jeopardy kind of situation. Lets say someone committed murder then did the time for the crime and the person was resurrected. If the murderer killed the person again they couldn't go to prison again for it.
Avatar image for dh69
DH69

4324

Forum Posts

102

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By DH69

this reminded me of the south park easter special where kyle has to kill jesus so they can escape, and he's overly conflicted about it even though jesus will just get resurrected in a matter of seconds

Avatar image for bestostero
Bestostero

5782

Forum Posts

10440

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

#12  Edited By Bestostero

Absolutely!

Avatar image for vantesla
VanTesla

524

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By VanTesla

Yes.
Avatar image for razzatazz
RazzaTazz

11948

Forum Posts

234582

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1887

User Lists: 79

#14  Edited By RazzaTazz
@Lance Uppercut said:

"Sure, it's still murder. Though according to double jeopardy, you could go on to murder that person for a second time and get away with it. Thank goodness for small miracles like that.  "


 

Thats not exactly how double jeopardy works, double jeopardy works only for the exact same action.  That movie with Ashley Judd got it wrong.  If I get tried and convicted for murdering someone and then that person turns up alive, its not therefore open season on that guy.  The law would still intervene. 
 
I personally am not sure if it would be murder, maybe in a moral sense but not in a legal one.  If someone kills someone and they are brought back to life through AR or CPR, then the person gets tried for attempted murder not murder.  Why would it be any different just because the person is dead for a longer time.     

Avatar image for mooseymcman
MooseyMcMan

136

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By MooseyMcMan

Yes, it's still murder.  
 
Example: Person A steals a car from Person B. Person A calls the cops, who arrest B, and A gets his car back.  
 
Technically the crime was reversed when A got his car back. B's still going to jail though. 

Avatar image for eyz
Eyz

3187

Forum Posts

304

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#16  Edited By Eyz
@mooseymcman said:
" Yes, it's still murder.   Example: Person A steals a car from Person B. Person A calls the cops, who arrest B, and A gets his car back.   Technically the crime was reversed when A got his car back. B's still going to jail though.  "
Exact!
 
Plus, in any case, wouldn't it still be "attempted murder" - thus still a crime, and an important one at that.
Avatar image for giveupned
GiveUpNed

82

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#17  Edited By GiveUpNed

No. It will be attempted murder as you tried to kill the individual, but the individual didn't ultimately die. 

Avatar image for radread
Radread

320

Forum Posts

23042

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 11

#18  Edited By Radread

 
 It is still murder even if the characters come back to life. Let's face it, the Joker was still enjoying the fact that Jason Todd died and came back and even revealed he love to kill him again. The Grim Reaper over in Avengers after returning back to life in Avengers vol. 3 #11 was still about killing people and not caring all the destruction and death he's caused in his years of costume villainary.
Avatar image for supremomaximo
SupremoMaximo

223

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

#19  Edited By SupremoMaximo

I honestly don't think the villains care.  it gives them a chance to do it again.  they're just going to escape prison anyways. 

Avatar image for innervenom123
InnerVenom123

29886

Forum Posts

1786

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 1

#20  Edited By InnerVenom123

Yes.

Avatar image for telcalipoca
Telcalipoca

1002

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By Telcalipoca

but ofcourse  
 
jesus resurrected no?, those who crucified him and stabbed him  did not attempt to kill him they killed him, a resurection isnt possible without a death. and all those popping up from the grave its what they are doing  
you cant have resurrection without death

Avatar image for notoriousbcb
notoriousbcb

427

Forum Posts

2058

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#22  Edited By notoriousbcb

Yes, it's still a crime, leave it to Lex Luthor to come up with some loophole to be cleared of the charge.

Avatar image for starkiller809
StarKiller809

1727

Forum Posts

2612

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 462

User Lists: 1

#23  Edited By StarKiller809

Yepp. If you kill someone wether or not they have been resurrected, you still have killed them.
Avatar image for cypher7373
Cypher7373

3

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By Cypher7373

Even if the victim comes back to life it's STILL murder.  When someone commits a robbery and the items are returned when they are caught, aren't  they STILL guilty of the crime?

Avatar image for scarlet_rogue
Scarlet_Rogue

190

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By Scarlet_Rogue

Of course it is. They still died, they lost time they won't get back, suffered traumas as did their loved ones.

Avatar image for deactivated-5a98cd905fc97
deactivated-5a98cd905fc97

433

Forum Posts

115

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

If someone purposely causes another person to become clinically dead on purpose, it is usually attempted murder.  Now, if they caused a person to be dead for the relatively long periods that comic book characters sometimes are...  I'd say it's murder. 
 
Why not take it further and ask, "If there is an afterlife and a hero goes to heaven, is it still murder?"  They're still in existence, after all. :P

Avatar image for alterego
alterego

10

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By alterego

How cool would it be to sit through your own murder trial. Could you be a witness?

Avatar image for deactivated-5a98cd905fc97
deactivated-5a98cd905fc97

433

Forum Posts

115

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

@alterego said:
" How cool would it be to sit through your own murder trial. Could you be a witness? "
There's an old B&W film called D.O.A. where a victim tells the tale of his murder to the police, after being given a lethal dose of an incurable poison.  Technically he was murdered, but had yet to die.
Avatar image for green_skin
Green Skin

2943

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#29  Edited By Green Skin

Yep it's still murder.  If you rob a bank it's still robbery even if you give the money back..  Same principle applies.

Avatar image for alterego
alterego

10

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By alterego
@Xenozoic Shaman said:
" @alterego said:
" How cool would it be to sit through your own murder trial. Could you be a witness? "
There's an old B&W film called D.O.A. where a victim tells the tale of his murder to the police, after being given a lethal dose of an incurable poison.  Technically he was murdered, but had yet to die. "
That's baffltriguing.
Avatar image for goldenshot80
goldenshot80

7456

Forum Posts

24603

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 18

User Lists: 1

#31  Edited By goldenshot80
It's still Murder.
Avatar image for ehjee
Ehjee

5

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By Ehjee

yes

Avatar image for cypher7373
Cypher7373

3

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By Cypher7373
@Green Skin:
Love Comment Jackers...
Avatar image for emperor_gonzo_noir
Emperor Gonzo Noir

19151

Forum Posts

1989

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 17

It's still murder, they still died.

Avatar image for vitality
Vitality

1879

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35  Edited By Vitality

 Since you don't know what resurrection means...here is the definition from dictionary.com
 

res·ur·rec·tion

/ ˌrɛzəˈrɛkʃən /  [ rez- uh- rek-shuhn ] –noun
1.
the act   of rising from the   dead.
2.
( initial capital letter ) the rising of Christ after His death and burial.
3.
( initial capital letter ) the rising of the dead on Judgment Day.
4.
the state of those risen from the dead.
5.
a rising again, as from decay, disuse, etc.; revival.
6.
ChristianScience. a rising above mortality through the understanding of spiritual life as demonstrated by Jesus   Christ.        
Avatar image for kumorikunoichi
KumoriKunoichi

638

Forum Posts

2423

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

#36  Edited By KumoriKunoichi

Well what happens if you sleep with someone who's been resurrected..
is that Necrophilia? >.>

Avatar image for wangbumaximus
wangbumaximus

22

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By wangbumaximus

If the death of a character is committed by a certified lunatic/crazed mind/psycho, the latter will end up in the rehabilitation/asylum/ward for most laws of the Western world stipulate that the loco person is NOT actually in his/her RIGHT frame of mind. Of course, many criminals in the real sense want to get out of the capital punishment by proclaiming of their so-called insanity. These people, most likely the rich, influential and powerful, hire top attorneys and psychological experts to assert/prove of their clients' "insanity". In many comics in the competition, that proves my point. Joker, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, etc., etc., etc., never get persecuted of being murderers, and always end up in the asylum due to their insanity.  Speaking of murderers in comics, correct me if I err, but there are no major sane villains who are actually mated the full force of the law of their respective countries. If they are jailed, many years do these scumbags endure? One or two years? What if the fans clamor their return despite the writer/s intend/s to punish them to show the world (for those who still value the sense of right and wrong/good triumphs over bad) that crime never pays, could the powers-in-the-comic-corridors ignore their customers' desire? Since resurrection is yet to be an absolute reality to our society (with the exception of Jesus Christ, Lazarus, Mohammad and those religious figures for the sake to those religious conscious people out there), murder is really intentional and brutal, we must condone the perpetrators, both the initiator/s and their accomplices. But the comics nowadays (obviously inspired from Bible, myths, and other fantastic literature that deal on the aspect revival) treat death/murder so economically, if not in the sense of being blunt here: cheaply. The murderers of these resurrected heroes, in the context/imagination of their worlds/author/s, take advantage of manipulating the situation since there are NO laws dealing with resurrected murdered victims. Influences are so strong in the pages of comics from the real world even though both the writers and the illustrators can create/imagine a fictional scenario. Yet, acting as a devil's advocate here, if there are laws in the real world regarding this matter, I believe many comic writers will try to think twice or many times to spice up their respective stories. Of course, I personally align with others that these murderous rogues should be punished, regardless whether their victims died permanently or otherwise. But in comics, most particularly in the competition, the twisted plot continues to be twisted further, and that includes eluding justice for these cabals!

Avatar image for video_martian
Video_Martian

5650

Forum Posts

2349

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38  Edited By Video_Martian

Too many resurrections/rebirths in comics nowadays...

Avatar image for comiclove5
Comiclove5

1304

Forum Posts

837

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 2

#39  Edited By Comiclove5

Absolutely, Just because the person (or people) have returned from their untimely demise, doesn't  make the murder(s) actions any less wrong. Although you do bring up a lot of good points here.

Avatar image for mumbles
Mumbles

858

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40  Edited By Mumbles

good question. yes.

Avatar image for wattup
Wattup

682

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41  Edited By Wattup

It's herocide!

Avatar image for perry_411
perry_411

453

Forum Posts

53

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By perry_411

This is a deep topic. Let's go back to talking about bathroom breaks and teeth brushing. j/k

Avatar image for snakeguy
Snakeguy

30

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By Snakeguy

Yes it is because a murder is when someone gets killed right ? Even if he ressurected himself that doesnt change the fact that he was dead for a time.

Avatar image for neuron
Neuron

105

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#44  Edited By Neuron

I think under "normal" circumstances, it's obviously still going to be considered murder even if the victim comes back to life.
 
However, if it's publicly known prior to the murder that that person will likely come back to life...  Then maybe the crime should be downgraded to something like "assault on an immortal".

Avatar image for hunter114
Hunter114

862

Forum Posts

10334

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 1

#45  Edited By Hunter114

I think that there is something similar when a person's heart stops... in some states that person is considered to be legally dead for a period of time... 
 
Soooooo my guess is that it would still be considered murder.

Avatar image for jonesdeini
JonesDeini

3874

Forum Posts

224

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 212

User Lists: 9

#46  Edited By JonesDeini

Legally speaking, let's say I kill Luke Cage. I'm convicted, he's resurrected or doesn't die (as tends to happen) I can now kill Luke Cage in broad day, in time square during a parade...and there's no court that could convict me. Double Jeopardy, friends!!!

Avatar image for razzatazz
RazzaTazz

11948

Forum Posts

234582

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1887

User Lists: 79

#47  Edited By RazzaTazz
@JonesDeini:
Thats not how double jeopardy works, it is only for the same action, not for subsequent ones. 
Avatar image for casshern
Casshern

155

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48  Edited By Casshern

Murder yes...BUT since no one every really dies, they should get written off.

Avatar image for aussiebushwacker
aussiebushwacker

80

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#49  Edited By aussiebushwacker
@sesquipedalophobe:
ever heard of the movie double jeopardy. i think if you get tried for the murder and if there not dead, you can kill em. go team psycho!
Avatar image for atari_graphics
Atari_Graphics

180

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50  Edited By Atari_Graphics
@Lance Uppercut said:
" Sure, it's still murder. Though according to double jeopardy, you could go on to murder that person for a second time and get away with it. Thank goodness for small miracles like that.  "
 
 
Haha brilliant!