No Way Home - Did Doc Ock Statue Dr Strange?

I guess we can never know if he was standing still while doing the spell or he was legit statued by Spider-Men and enemies.

by feats, he shouldn't be.

No. He was clearly focused on the box. You can see Strange react to Goblin right after, too.

This

Seems pretty clear that Ock saved him from the bombs he wasnt reacting too the script seems to read like the bombs were heading for Strange and Ock saved him), and he doesnt move at all until after Goblin blitzes the box outta his hands...he looks pretty frozen....Spideys unconscious body was a bit faster than Strange also, this doesnt mean that Strange is slo or anything; Strange can still statue a regular human ofc, strange has good speed still.

IDK man, everyones moving but him, and the bobs were coming right at him, ye he was looking at the box but the way hes just not moving at all sure looks like hes statued.

Like just playing it back and forth Strange isnt moving at all, not his hands or his eyes or anything...sure looks like Ock saves him from the bombs while he is dead still....we can say that he was looking down ofc, thats fair context, but he is still really really still.

This also looks possible. Or it can be a mixture of both possibilities, He reacted to bombs but from a very shorter distance which might end up with bombs hurting him pretty bad. Fully statued Strange does not look possible but I don't think he can move as fast as others.

Maybe that's the reason why writers implied Dock and others saved him.

@death4bunnies:

he isnt moving at all, not his hands or his eyes or anything...

Not high res enough to make out his eyes. If you look at his hands in the scene immediately after where Goblin takes the box and he turns to look at him, his hands appear still as well. Whatever spell he's casting simply requires his hands be still.

sure looks like Ock saves him from the bombs while he is dead still....we can say that he was looking down ofc, thats fair context, but he is still really really still.

Way I see it, he could be still either because (A) Ock (by proxy anyone who's comparable to Ock) is much faster than him (B) he's heavily focused on the spell

Considering the context around Strange scaling:

Strange successfully captured Lizard

Strange could keep up with Spider-Man earlier on in the film

Strange reacted to Goblin immediately after

I think B is much more likely than A. It's also possible Strange didn't consider the bombs a threat since he was unharmed by the explosion.

Ye it seems to show a speed edge for the Spiders and Villains when they use high effort.

Goblin sneaking the bomb into the box is pretty neat too, the script says no one saw, but the Spiders felt the danger…imma add it to the RT for Spidey sense.

@death4bunnies: btw how Strange didn't die from the bomb in the box?

Im watching it back and forth on digital, his eyes and everything else on his is pretty frozen.

Strange took a hit to the cheek from lizard but fair enough, like I said he not slo.

Strange could not keep up with SM physically, we saw him grabbing for the box and being slower than Spidey; who instincts keep him just fast enough to stay ahead.

Goblin blizted the box right outta his hands, and snuck a bomb into it.

They were sharp bombs, and he considered the explosion a threat he was unharmed by it, but he saw the pumpkin bomb in the box and ducked…strange does have some goat dura tho.

——

IDK, I think this shows a clear speed edge; strange looks pretty frozen, but either way he wasn’t reacting and Ock caught the bombs that were heading for him.

Id say A, the way Petes unconscious body was untouchable to strange physically shows this, backed up by this scene. A speed edge at least.

Passive protection spells(like what if), unconfirmed but would explain a lot; he has a bunch of superhuman feats; off the top of my head I think maw ragdolled him good once.

Just looked through his feats on discord.. he tanked this grenade too.

Statue is kind of an overally dramatic term when the person being statued is barley moving but yeah Dr. Strange didn't seem to be reacting to the situation as fast as others because there faster.

Dr. Otto Octavius is faster than the other Doctor.

I can only screen cap, that’s what that gif is.. my digital version turns black when I try to copy it in full.

Ye again my argument isn’t that strange is slo, lizard thing is awesome.

Its raw speed bruh, he’s moving his physical body through instinct(tantamount to trusting his instincts like when he closed his eyes in FFH) .. and why would he move any faster than he has to to keep the box away from strange? He was only moving as fast as he needed to keep the box away not as fast as he could.

Idk what you mean, like ofc Strange turns after the the box is blitzed away..but he’s very still when everyone is moving near their fastest to intercept bombs. Its just higher effort.

It seems like he’s not reacting at all, and completely still, I don’t know how else to describe it.. like full context we’d just say “Ock intercepted bombs heading for Strange while Strange was messing with his box, Strange did not move or react to the bombs at all, then goblin blitzed the box outta strange hands, strange started moving and reacting then” that would be full context, and I think that’s fair to add that context; but it still really looks like a edge to me…and bigger edge with high effort.

Im not meaning to ‘take‘ it to any extreme, im just noting the man isn’t moving a bit.

Fair.. I was just trying to point out how strange seems a bit frozen.

No

🕷🕸⚡️🐙 Strange was statued. 🕸🕷⚡️🐙

MCU Spider-man is surprisingly powerful.

@nachocoloredsno:

Welcome back Nacho

How was your day?

Yeah they clearly did, all of them.

@death4bunnies:

Ye again my argument isn’t that strange is slo, lizard thing is awesome.

You agree Ock can statue Strange but Lizard for some reason can't? If Ock is as fast you say, Strange would've died fighting Connors. Lizard would've been FTE from his POV and gutted him before he could react.

Its raw speed bruh, he’s moving his physical body through instinct(tantamount to trusting his instincts like when he closed his eyes in FFH) ..

Spider sense knows Strange is gonna move before he even does, it's practically precog

and why would he move any faster than he has to to keep the box away from strange? He was only moving as fast as he needed to keep the box away not as fast as he could.

Okay, still be feats no more than a 2x speed difference, it's not enough to support him being 10+ times faster than strange. And you say not as fast meaning it's somehow a conscious decision from Spider-Man, but he's not controlling his body (headcanon here, but I think you'll agree) his senses are

Idk what you mean, like ofc Strange turns after the the box is blitzed away..but he’s very still when everyone is moving near their fastest to intercept bombs. Its just higher effort.

Very still cuz he has the box to work with. He turns after cuz now the Goblin is his focus. Him moving afterwards makes no difference, he's still clearly relative to them if he can react and turn.

Also why would this be any higher effort than Lizard, who has no reason to hold back or Peter earlier in the film when he's trying to escape Strange and save lives?

It seems like he’s not reacting at all, and completely still, I don’t know how else to describe it.. like full context we’d just say “Ock intercepted bombs heading for Strange while Strange was messing with his box, Strange did not move or react to the bombs at all, then goblin blitzed the box outta strange hands, strange started moving and reacting then” that would be full context, and I think that’s fair to add that context; but it still really looks like a edge to me…and bigger edge with high effort.

I mostly agree with this, but the wording is a little biased. If I'm eating food and a ball heads towards me, me not "reacting" to the ball is not the most honest description as that would generally imply I was decently focused on it but didn't care for it or I didn't have the speed to do so.

Goblin snatching the box isn't a blitz either, since Strange wasn't focused on him. It's like descibing a sucker punch as a "blitz."

I'd say:

"Ock intercepted the bombs as Strange stood in place messing with the box. Goblin took the box from him. Strange turned towards him."

That's the most objective description I can think of for the scene.

No, Doctor strange was just focused on the box

@kryptonianking88:

Spidey is faster than lizard (that’s how he can kick a running lizard from behind, but they are relative.. I think what you missing is highest effort.. the spiders and Ock reacted to a life or death threat, lizard did some stuff off screen I don’t know what level effort he was using, but seems unfair to say he was at highest effort off screen.

Precog or not he’s clearly moving faster than strange.. and my point is his spider sense only makes him move fast enough to protect him from danger. Nothing about that astral scene suggested top speed for spidey, just fast enough to stay ahead.

He like very very still dude, if we use your ball analogy it would be like someone cackles as they throw the ball, everyone else at the table(who also weren’t looking) gets up and catches a ball, and you don’t move at all, even with explosions in your face your eyes don’t even come up.

I think he was pretty well frozen in that moment.

@death4bunnies:

The difference between Spider-Man and Lizard is relatively minor. Either Strange is comparable to Lizard and by proxy Spider-Man, meaning no statue force. Or Lizard is comparable to Spider-Man and statues and kills Strange, contradicting what happens in the film. It's not unfair at all, why would Lizard hold back his speed against a stranger trying to capture him?

He is, but it doesn't support a statue level difference. It's the difference betweeen a fast person and a slow person, not a speedster and a regular person, as statue force would require. The only thing the fight scene shows is pure spider sense Peter is faster than Strange and that Strange can tag a regular Spider-Man, the first doesn't support a massive speed difference enough to statue Strange and the second is an obvious contradiction.

With the ball analogy, I was just criticizing your word choice, but to be more accurate to the film, everyone else at the table is doing nothing but you're really really hungry. Who's more inclined to catch the ball?

Clearly

@kryptonianking88:

It’s not aboutmouzard holding back his soeed, it’s just about what these people can accomplish when pressed .. it was a life or death situation in the op gifs, meanwhile strange vs lizard happened off screen. There are a lot of ways Strange could overcome a speed disparity that could of happened off screen.. seems silly to disregard what we see on screen for what we don’t see off screen.

Pure spider sense Spidey seems to be headcanon, he can move his body that fast physically.. and in a life or death situation (that never came up vs strange) he can go a little faster.

They weren’t doing nothing, your reasoning was strange was looking down, everyone else was looking in another direction too, but they were able to react while strange was frozen on screen.

Bruh… he doesn’t even move when the explosions go off near his face.

@death4bunnies: To the records I changed my mind after the talk and decided on the middle ground, somewhere between totally statued and totally able to react.

Fair of you... I think thats where I'm leaning too...I want to use the word statued, but it seem people will accept 'Strange didnt react while Ock did' a little easier... and I'm willing to tone down the wording I use to a bit to be more convincing in my debates.

did math in another thread. I believe it might be some sort of magic time dilation. but if strange has feats in astral plane like a user said above "2085001 km/h(MHS+)" by heiqn.. then maybe it is just raw speed here. though it's still weird that leaves and debris in proximity are moving relative to everyone else but the background is motionless (which makes me think time dilation).. but tbh it also could just be overpressure of the punch itself that has done this.

Cloak seems to cover him from the brunt of it:

Ock also grabbed the glider before Strange could lasso whip it, portal it, or any spell, Goblin also snatched it out of his hand before he could do anything. Strange isn't as fast as the Spider-Men or their rogues gallery

@thorwins1875:shouldn't it be:

14.98 meters (arm movements) / 110.1 (time dilation) = 1649.298 m/s or mach 4.8084489796 ?

You don't have to speed up again with 0.282 if you will multiply it with the given total time transpired

@hydratedfubuki6: no, that would be incorrect. you need to determine the difference in application between both real world (0 s 282 ms) and onscreen (31 s 333 ms). you cannot simply use the multiplier to determine speed - that's how you end up with mach 700 cw superman off of a bullet feat. i specifically consulted a physics and math forum about this last year after realizing i had a mistake in the methodologies i was employing.

@thorwins1875: I'm not inflating the feat, I thought the opposite.

You measured the time dilation/multiplier from the division of real world and on screen timeframes. That would be 31.333 / 0.282 = 111.1, which is right.

Spider-Man's total arm movements moved at 14.98 meters in 111.1x slowed down timeframe, and that should be the final result.

Why did you speed up his arms again in time dilation with 0.282 ms? That's in your calc; 14.98 / 0.282 = 53.12 m/s.

-

It would look like Spider-Man speedster-ing inside the slow-mo (As Fox Quicksilver did) but he didn't, therefore 0.282 ms input is irrelevant after getting the time dilation/multiplier.

Strange was occupied with something else.

But Doc Ock is probably still faster than him, just not to the extent that he could statue Strange.

@ccbm2208:

He didn’t move when bombs went off near his face, he looks pretty frozen. I think I might change the feat to 'Strange didnt react to goblin bombs while Ock did' in my RT instead of saying the word statued(even tho I think he’s pretty dang frozen to the bombs).

Fair?

@hydratedfubuki6:

I'm not inflating the feat, I thought the opposite

I never said you did.

Why did you speed up his arms again in time dilation with 0.282 ms? That's in your calc; 14.98 / 0.282 = 53.12 m/s

he moved 14.98 meters in 31 s 333 ms onscreen - but the time transpired in the real world was 0 s 282 ms

(31.333) / (0.282) 111.10 x multiplier < how much faster their scene is compared to real life
(14.98) / (0.282) 53.12 m/s < real world application
(53.12) * (111.10) 5,901.63 m/s or Mach 17.20 < scene multiplier * real world application = actual result

if you're still struggling to comprehend, i suggest read the thread I linked above.

Every NWH character is a speedster now. Run for your lives!

Oh wait...

@thorwins1875: I read the thread.

speed = distance/time

= (2.83 m) / (0 s 458 ms)

= 6.17904 m/s

In the case that is Superman is speedstering in the slowed down scene, from one point to another, the speed was calced to be 6.179 m/s. Then multiplied with real time velocity.

In Spider-Man's case, he didn't speedster-ed the slowed down scene, and you summed the total arm movements to 14.98 meters for the entire slowed down scene.

If we apply the 0.298 ms inside the time dilation, he would look like Fox Quicksilver speedstering in the slowed down scene. Again, there's no movement to measure other than the sum of arm movements, there's no move to get an input of distance travel from point to point in 0.298 ms in already dilated time in the first place since the entire arm movement is summed for the entire slowed down scene. There's no point of using it after getting the time dilation.

@hydratedfubuki6:

the entire background is motionless. there's a woman walking her dog whose entire momentum is arrested after Steven's punch. I'm not sure why you keep talking time dilation, or applying that to my proofs here - that's a totally different mathematical application. I even addressed that in the original post.

the methodology is correct. not sure what else I can say to you here, other than go re-read the thread I provided.

@thorwins1875: The method can only apply to a single movement moving from point to point to get the speed, not summing the 15 arm movements that has pauses in between happened in the whole slow-mo.

Btw, this is what I meant for 'speedstering the slow mo scene', or super speed in a super speed.

Here's the Freemathhelp's method you showed me (which is right): If the cube is moved by 1 meters in 0.16 seconds in the slow-mo, he'd be moving at 6.25 meters per second, then multiply it by 111.1 (times the screen is slowed down), we get his arm moving at 694.375 meters per second or mach 2.02441691.

We have to agree to disagree here.

I didn't and have no mean to be hostile, I really appreciate the exchange. Peace out.

Haven't read thread but we literally see Strange look up. Am I tripping?

Also can we really rule out plot?

@supremegeneration: He did look at the exact time the first bomb has exploded.

Ye he looks up a bit as the bomb explodes, definitely seems slower then the rest of the characters in the scene.

I think the plot is expressed in the script.

They specifically mention Ock grading the bombs outta Strange's path, while the Peters quickly dodge.....Then the goblin blitzes the box outta Stranges hands, and Ock grabs Goblin.... Im leaning away from using the word statued; but he definitely seems significantly slower then the others...lining up with him not being able to touch Spidey with his astral form outta his body.