naruto vs goku, presenting SethTheProgrammer

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kiba

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@batmanplusjay: so you're a Naruto fanboy? K. All of Gokus power comes from developing and controlling his KI which is no different from Narutos chakra. Its like saying Naruto can use any jutsu he's ever learned. Goku and all the Z fighters for that matter do what Naruto does but way better. And as for that nonsense about strategy and whatnot I suggest you look up how Goku learned ultra instinct.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#52  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@kiba: And you're a Goku Stan. Lol

Goku subconsciously kept going into UI on accident. The reason he was even able to do it was because he died after a spirit bomb(that he needed literally everyone's help to make) backfired. There's no strategy in that no matter how you look at it.

And what are you talking about? I never even mentioned him learning things the way Naruto does. I simply stated the fact that when it comes to versatility, strategy, and skill he's lackluster in comparison to Naruto. Naruto's moveset ranges from destructive jutsu to jutsu that provides a tactical edge. Every single last one of Goku's energy attacks do the same shit -- explode on impact. He has no versatility whatsoever.

Db doesnt do everything Naruto does, let alone better. They're just power houses, nothing more nothing less. Idk why you're surprised that ninjas who were trained since birth to be skillful and encouraged to use strategies and tactics would be more skilled and versatile than a Saiyan that gets a new mode every time he gets emotional. Shit like that is just common sense.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#53  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@batmanplusjay said:

@rukelnikovftw: I'm not sure why you believe Goku is better than Naruto in hand to hand combat. Lmao. As an adult Naruto is nothing at all like he used to be when he last fought Sasuke.

I haven't read or seen Boruto so IDK how has Naruto developed after 2nd VotE. Up until that point, Goku's H2H is comfortably better, the only good H2H style Naruto knows is Frog Kata, and he hardly ever uses it.

Also, lol at Naruto having more versatility than Goku, teleport, telepathy, telekinesis, better sensing, better hiding from senses, better H2H, better energy projection control, none of those is based on stats.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@rukelnikovftw: I'll wait til I get home where I can get my computer and debunk you

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RukelnikovFTW

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BatmanPlusJay

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#56  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@rukelnikovftw said:
@batmanplusjay said:

@rukelnikovftw: I'm not sure why you believe Goku is better than Naruto in hand to hand combat. Lmao. As an adult Naruto is nothing at all like he used to be when he last fought Sasuke.

I haven't read or seen Boruto so IDK how has Naruto developed after 2nd VotE. Up until that point, Goku's H2H is comfortably better, the only good H2H style Naruto knows is Frog Kata, and he hardly ever uses it.

Yeah he's better than end of shippuden Naruto. But Adult Naruto is something different. Here's some adult Naruto taijutsu;

Loading Video...

Regarding the video above^ since you don't know who Momoshiki is, I'll tell you. Momoshiki is an otsutsuki from Kaguya's Otstsuki clan. Just by genetics all Otsutsuki are stronger than shinobi, no matter the clan. But this Momoshiki in the video is not Momoshiki himself. This is actually Momoshiki fused with another Otsutsuki named Kinshiki. And like Momoshiki, Kinshiki is a beast, he even beat Sasuke in a scuffle(Sasuke was low on chakra, and only used hand to hand combat so it's safe to say he held back). This video is showing Naruto going toe to toe with Momoshiki in taijutsu even after Momoshiki one-shots literally every other kage. There's a scene before this part where Naruto goes toe to toe against Momoshiki in base form and actually holds his own;

Loading Video...

It's around the beginning don't watch the whole thing.

Here's more adult Naruto taijutsu, this time against Toneri Otsutsuki's puppets;

Loading Video...

And there's more but I'll stop there.

Also, lol at Naruto having more versatility than Goku, teleport, telepathy, telekinesis, better sensing, better hiding from senses, better H2H, better energy projection control, none of those is based on stats.

He is more versatile. As I explained his jutsu ranges from destructive jutsu to jutsu that gives a tactical edge. Rasengan(and all variants), summoning, shadow clone jutsu, body flicker, earth style jutsu(he knows all chakra natures but so far we've only saw him use earth style), yin, yang, yin/yang, rasenshuriken, better sensing than Goku in sage mode(and especially in six paths sage mode), and his H2H is at least on par with Goku. People have even noticed Naruto used wing chun against Momoshiki, he knows more than just regular taijutsu. His way of fighting is more versatile than Goku's, he uses mixes of jutsu/H2H combination attacks, pretty much everyone in Naruto does.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#57  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@batmanplusjay said:
@rukelnikovftw said:
@batmanplusjay said:

@rukelnikovftw: I'm not sure why you believe Goku is better than Naruto in hand to hand combat. Lmao. As an adult Naruto is nothing at all like he used to be when he last fought Sasuke.

I haven't read or seen Boruto so IDK how has Naruto developed after 2nd VotE. Up until that point, Goku's H2H is comfortably better, the only good H2H style Naruto knows is Frog Kata, and he hardly ever uses it.

Yeah he's better than end of shippuden Naruto. But Adult Naruto is something different. Here's some adult Naruto taijutsu;

Loading Video...

Regarding the video above^ since you don't know who Momoshiki is, I'll tell you. Momoshiki is an otsutsuki from Kaguya's Otstsuki clan. Just by genetics all Otsutsuki are stronger than shinobi, no matter the clan. But this Momoshiki in the video is not Momoshiki himself. This is actually Momoshiki fused with another Otsutsuki named Kinshiki. And like Momoshiki, Kinshiki is a beast, he even beat Sasuke in a scuffle(Sasuke was low on chakra, and only used hand to hand combat so it's safe to say he held back). This video is showing Naruto going toe to toe with Momoshiki in taijutsu even after Momoshiki one-shots literally every other kage. There's a scene before this part where Naruto goes toe to toe against Momoshiki in base form and actually holds his own;

Loading Video...

It's around the beginning don't watch the whole thing.

Here's more adult Naruto taijutsu, this time against Toneri Otsutsuki's puppets;

Loading Video...

And there's more but I'll stop there.

I know who Momoshiki is, I saw the Movie, I meant I hadn't seen Boruto the series. Heard the fight in the series was awesome, looks pretty good.

Also, lol at Naruto having more versatility than Goku, teleport, telepathy, telekinesis, better sensing, better hiding from senses, better H2H, better energy projection control, none of those is based on stats.

He is more versatile. As I explained his jutsu ranges from destructive jutsu to jutsu that gives a tactical edge. Rasengan(and all variants), summoning, shadow clone jutsu, body flicker, earth style jutsu(he knows all chakra natures but so far we've only saw him use earth style), yin, yang, yin/yang, rasenshuriken, better sensing than Goku in sage mode(and especially in six paths sage mode), and his H2H is at least on par with Goku. People have even noticed Naruto used wing chun against Momoshiki, he knows more than just regular taijutsu. His way of fighting is more versatile than Goku's, he uses mixes of jutsu/H2H combination attacks, pretty much everyone in Naruto does.

You name a lot of stuff, but... Most of those are just nukes, variations of Rasengan/shuriken don't provide versatility, its just energy projection, and not with Goku's level of control. You name a lot of chakra natures but what do all those natures give him? Does he get better senses? Does he imporrove his mobilitY? Getting 1001 way of energy projection is useful, but not really that versatile.

And finally, I don't think you understand Goku's level of H2H, BoS Goku already displays a mastery of Taijutsu Naruto has never shown. Here you go:

Loading Video...

Those are the first minutes of the first episode...

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BatmanPlusJay

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#58  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@rukelnikovftw:

You name a lot of stuff, but... Most of those are just nukes, variations of Rasengan/shuriken don't provide versatility, its just energy projection, and not with Goku's level of control. You name a lot of chakra natures but what do all those natures give him? Does he get better senses? Does he imporrove his mobilitY? Getting 1001 way of energy projection is useful, but not really that versatile.

I said "Rasengan(and all variants), summoning, shadow clone jutsu, body flicker, earth style jutsu(he knows all chakra natures but so far we've only saw him use earth style), yin, yang, yin/yang, rasenshuriken, better sensing than Goku in sage mode(and especially in six paths sage mode), and his H2H is at least on par with Goku. People have even noticed Naruto used wing chun against Momoshiki, he knows more than just regular taijutsu."How can "most" of what I listed just be nukes when the only things "nuke" related is rasengan and its variants and rasenshuriken and its variants? There's a reason why I said "Naruto's jutsu ranges from destructive jutsu to jutsu that give a tactical advantage" and it wasn't so you could cherry pick. He has, and I'll repeat yet again, summoning, shadow clone jutsu, substitution jutsu, yin, yang, yin/yang, all chakra natures, knows frog kata and multiple styles of fighting, ashura's fist, and I'm sure there's more I forgot to mention. Those chakra natures give him access to new jutsu, jutsu he's clearly learned/developed over the years like this;

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I am not implying this fragile wall will do anything to stop Goku. I'm just proving the point that Naruto is more versatile than Goku, and that he's clearly learned more jutsu over the years. And most of the jutsu I named above that Naruto knows is tactical. And Goku's base form sensing is useless against someone who can clone themselves a thousand times over. And btw, of course Naruto's mobility has gotten better, I'm not sure why you assume it hasn't.

And finally, I don't think you understand Goku's level of H2H, BoS Goku already displays a mastery of Taijutsu Naruto has never shown. Here you go:

He chopped logs. You serious? Shinobi have to be the most precise/accurate kind of people to exist. They learn to throw kunai and hit bullseyes at an extremely young age. If I recall correctly, even people like neji can catch or cut leaves before they ever hit the ground. Copping wooden planks with his bare hands is childs play to Naruto. You've shown nothing extraordinary. And btw taijutsu is an actual fighting style, meaning it's most likely not even a fighting style Goku knows. That was just a fun fact, it's irrelevant.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw:

You name a lot of stuff, but... Most of those are just nukes, variations of Rasengan/shuriken don't provide versatility, its just energy projection, and not with Goku's level of control. You name a lot of chakra natures but what do all those natures give him? Does he get better senses? Does he imporrove his mobilitY? Getting 1001 way of energy projection is useful, but not really that versatile.

I said "Rasengan(and all variants), summoning, shadow clone jutsu, body flicker, earth style jutsu(he knows all chakra natures but so far we've only saw him use earth style), yin, yang, yin/yang, rasenshuriken, better sensing than Goku in sage mode(and especially in six paths sage mode), and his H2H is at least on par with Goku. People have even noticed Naruto used wing chun against Momoshiki, he knows more than just regular taijutsu."How can "most" of what I listed just be nukes when the only things "nuke" related is rasengan and its variants and rasenshuriken and its variants? There's a reason why I said "Naruto's jutsu ranges from destructive jutsu to jutsu that give a tactical advantage" and it wasn't so you could cherry pick. He has, and I'll repeat yet again, summoning, shadow clone jutsu, substitution jutsu, yin, yang, yin/yang, all chakra natures, knows frog kata and multiple styles of fighting, ashura's fist, and I'm sure there's more I forgot to mention. Those chakra natures give him access to new jutsu, jutsu he's clearly learned/developed over the years like this;

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I am not implying this fragile wall will do anything to stop Goku. I'm just proving the point that Naruto is more versatile than Goku, and that he's clearly learned more jutsu over the years. And most of the jutsu I named above that Naruto knows is tactical. And Goku's base form sensing is useless against someone who can clone themselves a thousand times over. And btw, of course Naruto's mobility has gotten better, I'm not sure why you assume it hasn't.

And finally, I don't think you understand Goku's level of H2H, BoS Goku already displays a mastery of Taijutsu Naruto has never shown. Here you go:

He chopped logs. You serious? Shinobi have to be the most precise/accurate kind of people to exist. They learn to throw kunai and hit bullseyes at an extremely young age. If I recall correctly, even people like neji can catch or cut leaves before they ever hit the ground. Copping wooden planks with his bare hands is childs play to Naruto. You've shown nothing extraordinary. And btw taijutsu is an actual fighting style, meaning it's most likely not even a fighting style Goku knows. That was just a fun fact, it's irrelevant.

He chopped logs. You serious? He kicks a log and breaks it into equal shaped wood and piles it, all with 1 hit, Naruto is lightyears away from that level of skill. Its clear you are biased.

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gideongarner01

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Goku stomps. Glad this is the very popular opinion on this thread.

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Asgardianweapon

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#61  Edited By Asgardianweapon

Stats equalized naruto stomps easy peasy

Ma men has everything in his side:

He fights smarter than goku consistently (not that goku is dumb tho)

Can make up to 5000 clones with the same stats

Probably can at least contend in skill

Has a wider range of tec

Has long, close and medium range of attacks

True seeking balls

Sennin aura

Sennin invocations and by extention genjutsu

Is pure of heart ( so no denki dama)

Can make a giant kyubbi to fight for him too

Has some experience with teleportation enemies

Goku has UI but i think Senin mode predection can at least conted with it

Can also fly to even the odds

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mbatz

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#62 mbatz  Online

@asgardianweapon:

I think your mistaken Dragon ball attacks are more effiecient

Giant kyuubi is nice, but you have to take into account with equalised ki/chakra more ki/chakra would be spread to create it, while Goku’s normal ki shield is would be stronger due to its density, and also take into account ki strengthening

The shadow clones aren’t equal to Naruto either, they have less durability, not one hit but far less then Naruto is capable of, and in a equalised battle that would be disadvantageons since your giving Goku more ki and with each transformation the more unequalised this becomes

Sennin mode can’t contend with UI, just having UI would make this unequalised since UI continually gets stronger exponentially, to the point he’s almost dead state becomes stronger then SSBkkx20

Heck kk makes this unequal too

So from the get go they have equal stats, until go makes one transformation, or if we are making it MUI he get stronger with time exponentially so it’s still unequalised

All of Goku’s techniques aren’t flashy but effective, a ki aura will protect him from physical damage and chakra techniques more efficiently then giant kyuubi, ki sensory does every thing Naruto’s senses are capable of and more, he can sense king Kai in another dimension, sense hit a universe away, can sense hit in he’s time skip which is anither time space that eats time from the main universe skipping time, the ki movement also let’s him know what attacks a person will perfom which is why he could tag Hit when he timeskipped.

So if they fought Goku would power up making a ki aura, Naruto would would go sage six paths kurama chakra mode, Naruto would try to hit Goku but he’d miss since he’d use ki to fly out the way, Naruto would expect that he could fly (assuming they don’t know) each other, Goku would go on the offensive start attacking Naruto and it’s even until Goku uses ki strengthening, Naruto would make clones and Goku would use kaioken use ki sensory to find Naruto and oneshot with a kkx20

Maybe I’m wrong but kaioken makes this unfair since all stats which would be equal make Naruto a statue since he’d have x20 reaction time, speed etc

Using UI or MUI is also suicide

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Adi_Frost

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Set hobviously has a bias for goku. But he will also wank naruto to high heavens like he has already done. My god his wank for Naruto is just as ridiculous as his wank for dbz. He has quintillion times faster than light goku in his base form (he isn't even close even in MUI honestly) and he thinks part 1 naruto was faster than light (not even current Naruto is). His wank is just ridiculous.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#64  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@adi_frost said:

Set hobviously has a bias for goku. But he will also wank naruto to high heavens like he has already done. My god his wank for Naruto is just as ridiculous as his wank for dbz. He has quintillion times faster than light goku in his base form (he isn't even close even in MUI honestly) and he thinks part 1 naruto was faster than light (not even current Naruto is). His wank is just ridiculous.

Well... he definitely isn't anywhere close to that in base, but Beerus has a feat putting him at 3/4 of Whis' regular travel speed, and most people consider MUI Goku to be at least able to give Beerus a run for his money (and there are in universe statements backing such an assumption). Whis has multiple feats in the trillions and quadrillions c, so, not up there yet, but not that far either.

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Adi_Frost

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@adi_frost said:

Set hobviously has a bias for goku. But he will also wank naruto to high heavens like he has already done. My god his wank for Naruto is just as ridiculous as his wank for dbz. He has quintillion times faster than light goku in his base form (he isn't even close even in MUI honestly) and he thinks part 1 naruto was faster than light (not even current Naruto is). His wank is just ridiculous.

Well... he definitely isn't anywhere close to that in base, but Beerus has a feat putting him at 3/4 of Whis' regular travel speed, and most people consider MUI Goku to be at least able to give Beerus a run for his money (and there are in universe statements backing such an assumption). Whis has multiple feats in the trillions and quadrillions c, so, not up there yet, but not that far either.

Whis uses a technique for travel. There is nothing to suggest whis's normal speed is the same. Hence his reaction speed, combat speed and even normal travel speed cannot be scaled to that one technique that he uses to travel across the universe.

Whis has no feats in trillion and quadrillions times the speed of light other than when he uses the technique to travel across the universe. He has never displayed the same speed in combat. By scaling, Whis is faster than both SSB Goku and Beerus to an unknown degree.

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Asgardianweapon

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#66  Edited By Asgardianweapon

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

I think your mistaken Dragon ball attacks are more effiecient

Giant kyuubi is nice, but you have to take into account with equalised ki/chakra more ki/chakra would be spread to create it, while Goku’s normal ki shield is would be stronger due to its density, and also take into account ki strengthening

Bro common... this isn´t dragonball, fights are not up to who is stronger. Numbers advantage matter and it is 5k and 10 "narutos" vs 1 goku. Everyone of them are at the same speed do the math, is quite simple.

The shadow clones aren’t equal to Naruto either, they have less durability, not one hit but far less then Naruto is capable of, and in a equalised battle that would be disadvantageons since your giving Goku more ki and with each transformation the more unequalised this becomes

Yeah they only lack durability but i ASSURE YOU if 5 "gokus" went to hit 1 goku the one that is alone would at least get 5 hits. Furthermore his clones are more durable nowadays just watch his fight against sasuke they got multiple hits until went down and only did when they were hit by amateratsu
Now imagine if 10 Naruto´s went to fight Goku, each doing a different technique, each doing their own shit, perfect"teamwork".Speed equalised. You simple CAN´T argue for goku on this

Sennin mode can’t contend with UI, just having UI would make this unequalised since UI continually gets stronger exponentially, to the point he’s almost dead state becomes stronger then SSBkkx20

Im assuming their trasnformations kid of get equalised too, like the only thing different is their aplications in versatility. However if you want to add the multipliers well it ´s another story (but idk even Sennin mode is a HUGE multiplier add other transformations that naruto has and...)

Heck kk makes this unequal too

So from the get go they have equal stats, until go makes one transformation, or if we are making it MUI he get stronger with time exponentially so it’s still unequalised

Well fair enough, and i supose he will activate, just like he did against Broly uhn?

All of Goku’s techniques aren’t flashy but effective, a ki aura will protect him from physical damage and chakra techniques more efficiently then giant kyuubi, ki sensory does every thing Naruto’s senses are capable of and more,

Okay i will stop you right there and ask for evidence for why it is better than naruto´s in anything battle whorty (range is not). I can show you much evidence for the sensory of naruto being more refined like sensig evil/malice, seing (and knowing exactly were are his friends as soon as he tries and seeing invisible things

Goku and cia were struggling against a opponent that is merely small or invisible... imagine if they weren´t double teaming it...

Loading Video...

Poor piccollo... and goku would bite it too if it weren´t for 17 having the minimum of battle tatics

he can sense king Kai in another dimension, sense hit a universe away,

what is the battle aplication of this, please tell

can sense hit in he’s time skip which is anither time space that eats time from the main universe skipping time,

ah, just like Madara´s limbo clones, nice.

the ki movement also let’s him know what attacks a person will perfom which is why he could tag Hit when he timeskipped.

just like every character that has a sharingan, which naruto can fight easely, as he fought 6 (at least) oponents like that already, not that goku can reeealy be expected to pull this shit consistently

So if they fought Goku would power up making a ki aura, Naruto would would go sage six paths kurama chakra mode, Naruto would try to hit Goku but he’d miss since he’d use ki to fly out the way, Naruto would expect that he could fly (assuming they don’t know) each other, Goku would go on the offensive start attacking Naruto and it’s even until Goku uses ki strengthening, Naruto would make clones and Goku would use kaioken use ki sensory to find Naruto and oneshot with a kkx20

Lol if you think any of that was in character. Naruto would SPAM clones and overwhelm Goku easely then maybe goku would try a power up if naruto didn´t finish him up first. Even with the power ups realistically, the gap in numbers would be enough to overwhelm almost any character.
Goku likes to toy with his opponet, naruto, don´t

oh yeah, of course you know that naruto can fly right?

Maybe I’m wrong but kaioken makes this unfair since all stats which would be equal make Naruto a statue since he’d have x20 reaction time, speed etc

Using UI or MUI is also suicide

Even if we think in the most simplistic ways we get naruto winning. If we got Superman vs 5000 Superman´s the group would win as with 5000 Thors would win against one Thor, 5000 hulks would win agains one Hulk and etc

If we take into acount that naruto can cancel Goku´s attacks with the TSB, can also fly, can spam jutsus of any nature transfomation, is smarter and can trick goku easely, i recently discovered that naruto can absorb techniques with his arm and etc

it´s almost like a Thor without Mjollnir or Superman with only his bricksness agains 5000 Thors and Supes with the full extent of their abilities.

if goku does a kamehameha naruto can hold with one of his kyuubi hands while a clone sneaks behind him. If Goku comes in hand to hand he gets bodied by naruto and his clones at least eventually, if goku tries to give him a denki dama naruto throws like 10 types of rasen shuriken in his ass, if he tries to play with instant transmission naruto would adapt (as he did with kaguya, who was faster than him let me add), goku would try to enter a beam struggle an naruto would or thow a tsb wich would negate it or pretend to enter it just to attack Goku´s back

Honestly with sasuke this would get even worse

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mbatz

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#67 mbatz  Online

@asgardianweapon said:

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

I think your mistaken Dragon ball attacks are more effiecient

Giant kyuubi is nice, but you have to take into account with equalised ki/chakra more ki/chakra would be spread to create it, while Goku’s normal ki shield is would be stronger due to its density, and also take into account ki strengthening

Bro common... this isn´t dragonball, fights are not up to who is stronger. Numbers advantage matter and it is 5k and 10 "narutos" vs 1 goku. Everyone of them are at the same speed do the math, is quite simple.

Not how it works, ten kids can’t harm an adult, and even that scenario is worse then 10 equal people vs someone with 10 times that persons stats. They are all statues.

100 meter dash 10 seconds becomes 1 seconds, or if it’s kaioken times 20 it becomes 0.5. All that’s why I said a kid vs an adult is a better match up Naruto can’t touch Goku from the get go. And don’t forget attacks.

This in its self already makes everything Naruto will do redundant even if Goku stood in one spot with increased durablity he can fall a sleep with Naruto hitting him. It could be 5000 Naruto‘s but they would suffer from the statue force just trying touch Goku.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

The shadow clones aren’t equal to Naruto either, they have less durability, not one hit but far less then Naruto is capable of, and in a equalised battle that would be disadvantageons since your giving Goku more ki and with each transformation the more unequalised this becomes

Yeah they only lack durability but i ASSURE YOU if 5 "gokus" went to hit 1 goku the one that is alone would at least get 5 hits. Furthermore his clones are more durable nowadays just watch his fight against sasuke they got multiple hits until went down and only did when they were hit by amateratsu
Now imagine if 10 Naruto´s went to fight Goku, each doing a different technique, each doing their own shit, perfect"teamwork".Speed equalised. You simple CAN´T argue for goku on this

Why are you telling me this, I already agreed they are more durable, but with equalised stats they won’t be as strong, is all I was saying, or if you want them stronger then you’d have to imagine that Goku also has the ki equivalent of that amount of shadow clones which he can use to increase he’s power level which would also make this unequal. Goku is just without equal, it’s either you stomp him or get stomped.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

Sennin mode can’t contend with UI, just having UI would make this unequalised since UI continually gets stronger exponentially, to the point he’s almost dead state becomes stronger then SSBkkx20

Im assuming their trasnformations kid of get equalised too, like the only thing different is their aplications in versatility. However if you want to add the multipliers well it ´s another story (but idk even Sennin mode is a HUGE multiplier add other transformations that naruto has and...)

You can’t nerf a transformation for the sake of a battle even if this was equalised UI Goku vs Sennin mode that wouldn’t change the fact he grows continually at an exponential rate, making it unequal, there’s also the issue of touching him in general Ultra instinct removes the thinking time so from the get go he’s reaction time, combat speed are unequal and that’s before he starts growing just due to the lack of that stat thinking time is nonexistent making this unequal. Sennin mode isn’t impressive when compared to UI.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

Heck kk makes this unequal too

So from the get go they have equal stats, until go makes one transformation, or if we are making it MUI he get stronger with time exponentially so it’s still unequalised

Well fair enough, and i supose he will activate, just like he did against Broly uhn?

Im not sure why you brought up broly, I only mentioned MUI so to say that Goku doesn’t have any transformations to tap into to make it unequal, so I meant equalised MUI Goku vs Naruto strongest form so they both don’t transform, but even then he’d keep growing but it’s as close as your gonna get to an equalised match with Goku.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

All of Goku’s techniques aren’t flashy but effective, a ki aura will protect him from physical damage and chakra techniques more efficiently then giant kyuubi, ki sensory does every thing Naruto’s senses are capable of and more,

Okay i will stop you right there and ask for evidence for why it is better than naruto´s in anything battle whorty (range is not). I can show you much evidence for the sensory of naruto being more refined like sensig evil/malice, seing (and knowing exactly were are his friends as soon as he tries and seeing invisible things

Goku and cia were struggling against a opponent that is merely small or invisible... imagine if they weren´t double teaming it...

Loading Video...

Poor piccollo... and goku would bite it too if it weren´t for 17 having the minimum of battle tactics

I’m not sure what relevance sensing evil has to do with Goku, if a person is evil, they have evil ki simple, furthermore who cares about sensing intent when you can sense exact movements even if you blind like blind Gohan fighting the wolf warrior.

As for the insect in the ToP that isn’t a low showing for Goku who wasn’t attacked by it. Rather Android 17 and Vegeta who could sense it but couldn’t see it. In fact that’s an optical issue the enemy was small, just like Jigen who solo’s Naruto and Sasuke and they couldn’t react or sense him so you can’t even make a comparison.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

he can sense king Kai in another dimension, sense hit a universe away,

what is the battle aplication of this, please tell

He can retreat and heal, bfr enemies, blitz enemies surprisingly by using instantaneous teleportation not kaguya inferior wormholes. And no he wasn’t capable of consistently reacting to sasuke teleporting, he only did so once. Watch Naruto vs sasuke again.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

can sense hit in he’s time skip which is anither time space that eats time from the main universe skipping time,

ah, just like Madara´s limbo clones, nice.

Actually that’s a common misconception that I’m trying to tear down.

When hit uses he’s time skip, he creates a seperate universe, time-space that eats time from the main universe, the time that is eaten is used in he’s own personal time-space causing time to freeze in the normal universe, of course he can also move around in that time-space and interact with being in the main universe while they can’t interact with him. And when the time skip ends he’s in a different location in the universe from when he was initially and he’s movements were skipped because he wasn’t functioning in the universe hence timeskip.

Limbo clones are different, for instance they function in the same universe as Naruto and sasuke but on a higher plane. We know this because if they were in another universe but Sasuke could see them and naruto could sense them, then when sasuke was in another one of kaguya’s dimensions which are actually universes then sasuke would be able to see Naruto in another universe, and sasuke certainly sense him.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

the ki movement also let’s him know what attacks a person will perfom which is why he could tag Hit when he timeskipped.

just like every character that has a sharingan, which naruto can fight easely, as he fought 6 (at least) oponents like that already, not that goku can reeealy be expected to pull this shit consistently

Fought six and got killed by one, got trapped in a genjutsu by the other, KO’d by the other, couldn’t tag the fourth one when using kumai. Real smooth Naruto.

I mean that just means Naruto was fast enough to outpace there senses, but that won’t help against a person that will be time 20 in stats and that huge people just don’t see it unles you give them calculations, like naruto 100m 10s seconds, Goku kkx20 does it in 0.5 seconds they aren’t comparable 5000 shadow clones would be so slow Goku would punch all of them before they can punch him. Then I here Naruto fans putting naruto against Supes and flash nah that’s ridiculous.

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:

So if they fought Goku would power up making a ki aura, Naruto would would go sage six paths kurama chakra mode, Naruto would try to hit Goku but he’d miss since he’d use ki to fly out the way, Naruto would expect that he could fly (assuming they don’t know) each other, Goku would go on the offensive start attacking Naruto and it’s even until Goku uses ki strengthening, Naruto would make clones and Goku would use kaioken use ki sensory to find Naruto and oneshot with a kkx20

Lol if you think any of that was in character. Naruto would SPAM clones and overwhelm Goku easely then maybe goku would try a power up if naruto didn´t finish him up first. Even with the power ups realistically, the gap in numbers would be enough to overwhelm almost any character.
Goku likes to toy with his opponet, naruto, don´t

oh yeah, of course you know that naruto can fly right?

Goku would destroy Naruto with now that I think about it, If all stats are equalised while they may have the same stats, like speed, strength, durability, they would have the same chakra/ki meaning the amount of ki required to make 5000 shadow clones Goku would also have that ki raise he’s power level making stats unequal and a spite, and then kaioken, only makes this a Godstomp. I’m not lying think about it, same Speed, strength, durability, energy, which Goku can use to augment he’s stats making this stomp in favour of Goku even without kaioken which also makes this a stomp.Naruto can contend with Saiyan saga Goku lol.

@mbatz said:
Even if we think in the most simplistic ways we get naruto winning. If we got Superman vs 5000 Superman´s the group would win as with 5000 Thors would win against one Thor, 5000 hulks would win agains one Hulk and etc

If we take into acount that naruto can cancel Goku´s attacks with the TSB, can also fly, can spam jutsus of any nature transfomation, is smarter and can trick goku easely, i recently discovered that naruto can absorb techniques with his arm and etc

it´s almost like a Thor without Mjollnir or Superman with only his bricksness agains 5000 Thors and Supes with the full extent of their abilities

This is an overly simplistic view on how this fight would go, for instance Goku can augment he’s power with the amount of ki he will have, this would make the fight unequalised, kaioken would make this unequalised, any transformation would make this unequalised, even if he started in he’s strongest form MUI it would still be unequalised due to the form exponentially increasing Goku’s ki and hence all stats.

5000 Thor’s vs one Thor x100 stats, the Thor with x100 stats teaches them the statue don’t fight. In this fight kkx20 Goku is statarrot and statues equalised Naruto.

if goku does a kamehameha naruto can hold with one of his kyuubi hands while a clone sneaks behind him. If Goku comes in hand to hand he gets bodied by naruto and his clones at least eventually, if goku tries to give him a denki dama naruto throws like 10 types of rasen shuriken in his ass, if he tries to play with instant transmission naruto would adapt (as he did with kaguya, who was faster than him let me add), goku would try to enter a beam struggle an naruto would or thow a tsb wich would negate it or pretend to enter it just to attack Goku´s back

Honestly with sasuke this would get even worse

The attacks would never land like I said

100 meter dash 10 seconds becomes 1 seconds, or if it’s kaioken times 20 it becomes 0.5. All that’s why I said a kid vs an adult is a better match up Naruto can’t touch Goku from the get go. And don’t forget attacks.

This in its self already makes everything Naruto will do redundant even if Goku stood in one spot with increased durablity he can fall a sleep with Naruto hitting him. It could be 5000 Naruto‘s but they would suffer from the statue force just trying touch Goku.

Goku would destroy Naruto with now that I think about it, If all stats are equalised while they may have the same stats, like speed, strength, durability, they would have the same chakra/ki meaning the amount of ki required to make 5000 shadow clones Goku would also have that ki raise he’s power level making stats unequal and a spite, and then kaioken, only makes this a Godstomp. I’m not lying think about it, same Speed, strength, durability, energy, which Goku can use to augment he’s stats making this stomp in favour of Goku even without kaioken which also makes this a stomp.

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Asgardianweapon

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@mbatz:

@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon said:

Not how it works, ten kids can’t harm an adult, and even that scenario is worse then 10 equal people vs someone with 10 times that persons stats. They are all statues.
stats equalized

stats equalized

stats equalized!!!
idk if you know this but making clones doesn´t make naruto any weaker or slower...so i don´t get your point at all... it isn´t dragonaball clones if they hit you, they feel like the real thing

100 meter dash 10 seconds becomes 1 seconds, or if it’s kaioken times 20 it becomes 0.5. All that’s why I said a kid vs an adult is a better match up Naruto can’t touch Goku from the get go. And don’t forget attacks.

This in its self already makes everything Naruto will do redundant even if Goku stood in one spot with increased durablity he can fall a sleep with Naruto hitting him. It could be 5000 Naruto‘s but they would suffer from the statue force just trying touch Goku.
Lol i can´t belive
you actually think Goku would get strong fast enough to defeat 5000 narutos?
the z force had a difficult time defeating those frieza soldiers who were muuuch weaker and this is going with dragon ball logic that aint like real logic..

Why are you telling me this, I already agreed they are more durable, but with equalised stats they won’t be as strong,
...why? why the fuck they would be weaker? (they are kage level fighters in theirm own btw)
If anything they would be proportionally stronger

is all I was saying, or if you want them stronger then you’d have to imagine that Goku also has the ki equivalent of that amount of shadow clones
no... that is not right... why??? you really reaching ain´t you lol
let me repeat the physical stats plus damange are equalized nothing else why would it mean more ki/chakara to goku? Naruto can do this on his own

which he can use to increase he’s power level which would also make this unequal. Goku is just without equal, it’s either you stomp him or get stomped.
yea...cause that sounds right

You can’t nerf a transformation for the sake of a battle
so you didn´t get the point in the video...please go watch it
even if this was equalised UI Goku vs Sennin mode that wouldn’t change the fact he grows continually at an exponential rate,
how fast and why do you think the initial boost of the senin mode would not be enough?
in the video he equalised the stats of UI and Naruto sage of six paths sennin, kurama mode and their ultimate level
(remember UI last 2 mins)
The whole point of the video is seeing who is a more complete fighter without power just hax, versatility, h2h etc. There will be no "compensation" or power increase in the fight...

making it unequal, there’s also the issue of touching him in general Ultra instinct removes the thinking time so from the get go he’s reaction time, combat speed are unequal and that’s before he starts growing just due to the lack of that stat thinking time is nonexistent making this unequal. Sennin mode isn’t impressive when compared to UI.
So yea... if you think that matters that much...

Im not sure why you brought up broly,
cause he can´t use at whim at least yet
I only mentioned MUI so to say that Goku doesn’t have any transformations to tap into to make it unequal, so I meant equalised MUI Goku vs Naruto strongest form so they both don’t transform, but even then he’d keep growing but it’s as close as your gonna get to an equalised match with Goku.
see my point above

I’m not sure what relevance sensing evil has to do with Goku,
None im just saying for the sake of completness
if a person is evil, they have evil ki simple, furthermore who cares about sensing intent when you can sense exact movements
So...like a

Sharingan...just like Sasuke, Itachi,shin, kaguya, madara and obito?
And don´t forget that Goku had to have prep (he adimited) to think of this...

even if you blind like blind Gohan fighting the wolf warrior.

As for the insect in the ToP that isn’t a low showing for Goku who wasn’t attacked by it. Rather Android 17 and Vegeta who could sense it but couldn’t see it.
Bro, Picollo was destroyed, my boy lost his lunch money and is still wondering what him him and 17 was about to go too, if 17 didn´t think of the obvious he wouldwin in a v3
In fact that’s an optical issue the enemy was small, just like Jigen who solo’s Naruto and Sasuke and they couldn’t react or sense him so you can’t even make a comparison.
what is needed to solo the z fighters: a ant man stats equalized.
And yeaah i can make a heck of a comparison. they both struglled however when push came to shove it was Naruto who figure it out how to hit him (in in less than an episode...), naruto could trade punches with his opponent and of course jigen is much different opponent as he can absorb energy, teleport, and shrink other things he too would absolutly wreck Goku.
They are veeery different don´t pretend it´s the same just because they sort of have similar characterisctcs: Jigen would always throw naruto and sasuke off by throwing that rods and grow them by surprise.

He can retreat and heal,
No he cannot, in that way in a vs battle would count as "ring out"
bfr enemies,
that´s better
blitz enemies surprisingly by using instantaneous teleportation not kaguya inferior wormholes.
"inferior"
And no he wasn’t capable of consistently reacting to sasuke teleporting, he only did so once. Watch Naruto vs sasuke again.
Please quote were i did say so...and by the way, again they are not equivalent, as Sasuke does changes places with stuff most of the time.

Actually that’s a common misconception that I’m trying to tear down.

When hit uses he’s time skip, he creates a seperate universe, time-space that eats time from the main universe, the time that is eaten is used in he’s own personal time-space causing time to freeze in the normal universe, of course he can also move around in that time-space and interact with being in the main universe while they can’t interact with him. And when the time skip ends he’s in a different location in the universe from when he was initially and he’s movements were skipped because he wasn’t functioning in the universe hence timeskip.

Limbo clones are different, for instance they function in the same universe as Naruto and sasuke but on a higher plane. We know this because if they were in another universe but Sasuke could see them and naruto could sense them, then when sasuke was in another one of kaguya’s dimensions which are actually universes then sasuke would be able to see Naruto in another universe, and sasuke certainly sense him.
fair enough, but didn´t they you know... found themselves... almost sure they could sense each other so your point is again moot.
Gonna rewatch

Fought six and got killed by one, got trapped in a genjutsu by the other, KO’d by the other, couldn’t tag the fourth one when using kumai. Real smooth Naruto.
Yeah lets ignore his fight against obito, how he defeated Madara, Kaguya, etc etc
Not that it matter as you know Goku himself said that he dind´t watched Vegeta and previous fights he wouldn´t have a chance as you know, that is not standard stuff for him

I mean that just means Naruto was fast enough to outpace there senses
Outpaced Madara, sasuke, Kaguya and Obito´s sensing hummm??? idk that doesn´t sound right to me lol
Sasuke was as fast as him plus better recog than Goku (don´t start, you know it)
Madara was straight up faster or at least as fast, Kaguya was def faster and obito was as fast as him

, but that won’t help against a person that will be time 20 in stats
i won´t repeat myself
and that huge people just don’t see it unles you give them calculations, like naruto 100m 10s seconds, Goku kkx20 does it in 0.5 seconds they aren’t comparable 5000 shadow clones would be so slow Goku would punch all of them before they can punch him. Then I here Naruto fans putting naruto against Supes and flash nah that’s ridiculous.

Goku would destroy Naruto with now that I think about it, If all stats are equalised while they may have the same stats, like speed, strength, durability, they would have the same chakra/ki meaning the amount of ki required to make 5000 shadow clones Goku
I still don´t get where you came up with that insane logic but ok...
would also have that ki raise he’s power level making stats unequal and a spite, and then kaioken, only makes this a Godstomp. I’m not lying think about it, same Speed, strength, durability, energy, which Goku can use to augment he’s stats making this stomp in favour of Goku even without kaioken which also makes this a stomp.Naruto can contend with Saiyan saga Goku lol.
So yeah im gonna ignore all of the above paragraph and just enphasize how much in character Goku would be stomped if he tried to fight not showing his all

This is an overly simplistic view on how this fight would go, for instance Goku can augment he’s power with the amount of ki he will have,
not for the purpose of this fight he can and if he can prob the multiplier of naruto last amp would match enough for it to not matter anymore
this would make the fight unequalised,
and ruin the purpose of it
kaioken would make this unequalised
Now that i think about it, Kaioken can prob be neutralised by Truth seeking orbs so there you go another argument of yours
, any transformation would make this unequalised,
watch the video
even if he started in he’s strongest form MUI it would still be unequalised due to the form exponentially increasing Goku’s ki and hence all stats.

5000 Thor’s vs one Thor x100 stats, the Thor with x100 stats teaches them the statue don’t fight. In this fight kkx20 Goku is statarrot and statues equalised Naruto.

The attacks would never land like I said
impressive claims
so wide are attacks, attacks from every side, explode on contact attacks, attacks from naruto in henges will not hit goku because he will in the begining of the fight go for his highest transformationwith kill intent

Gonna leave you thinking about this ok?

100 meter dash 10 seconds becomes 1 seconds, or if it’s kaioken times 20 it becomes 0.5. All that’s why I said a kid vs an adult is a better match up Naruto can’t touch Goku from the get go. And don’t forget attacks.
Of course you aren´t going to calc how much faster naruto gets with his amps? oh, you are just going to ignore them? oh well

This in its self already makes everything Naruto will do redundant even if Goku stood in one spot with increased durablity he can fall a sleep with Naruto hitting him.
carefull with the Goku can fall sleep claims, as they don´t seem to hold up
It could be 5000 Naruto‘s but they would suffer from the statue force just trying touch Goku.

Goku would destroy Naruto with now that I think about it, If all stats are equalised while they may have the same stats, like speed, strength, durability, they would have the same chakra/ki meaning the amount of ki required to make 5000 shadow clones Goku would also have that ki raise he’s power level making stats unequal and a spite, and then kaioken, only makes this a Godstomp. I’m not lying think about it, same Speed, strength, durability, energy, which Goku can use to augment he’s stats making this stomp in favour of Goku even without kaioken which also makes this a stomp.

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#69 mbatz  Online

@asgardianweapon:You’ve mistaken what i was trying to explain

Rather then quoting you and adding what I was going to say I’ve made a seperate argument here to explain clearly

Naruto’s clones require chakra and large amounts of chakra at that.

If stats are equal the chakra Naruto will have to create the clones, Goku will have the equivalent in ki since they would have the same amount of ki/chakra

If Naruto is to make 5000 clones equal stats, Goku would have the ki to do the same if he knew the technique, but he doesn’t, I’m talking about the amount of chakra/ki is the same to be extra clear

This would mean Goku would be able to augment he’s stats by powering up with that amount of ki

I also never said he starts in MUI, I was merely saying whether he starts in base or MUI it’s not beneficial. Mainly since if he’s in base the transformations make it unfair, if he’s in MUI to stop further transformations it is still not favourable since he still grows.

Does that make sense, if Naruto has large amounts of chakra/ki so will Goku and he can power up increasing he’s stats

Kaioken makes it unfair as I explained Naruto has never fought someone 20x stronger, Kaguya was a percentage stronger like 1.9x stronger or something like that which is a percentage not 20xtimes

Also I see your still under the idea Naruto can touch Goku with a 360 degree attack, instant transmission would prevent that and I already explained using the 100m dash explanation from 10 seconds to 0.5 seconds

Naruto can’t win since Goku can augment he’s stats to obscene height, the fight might start in favour of Naruto but the moment Goku uses a tranformation or the kaioken it would become a stomp, and that’s assuming he doesn’t power up using ki

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@mbatz said:

@asgardianweapon:You’ve mistaken what i was trying to explain

Rather then quoting you and adding what I was going to say I’ve made a seperate argument here to explain clearly

Naruto’s clones require chakra and large amounts of chakra at that.

If stats are equal the chakra Naruto will have to create the clones, Goku will have the equivalent in ki since they would have the same amount of ki/chakra

If Naruto is to make 5000 clones equal stats, Goku would have the ki to do the same if he knew the technique, but he doesn’t, I’m talking about the amount of chakra/ki is the same to be extra clear

This would mean Goku would be able to augment he’s stats by powering up with that amount of ki

I also never said he starts in MUI, I was merely saying whether he starts in base or MUI it’s not beneficial. Mainly since if he’s in base the transformations make it unfair, if he’s in MUI to stop further transformations it is still not favourable since he still grows.

Does that make sense, if Naruto has large amounts of chakra/ki so will Goku and he can power up increasing he’s stats

Kaioken makes it unfair as I explained Naruto has never fought someone 20x stronger, Kaguya was a percentage stronger like 1.9x stronger or something like that which is a percentage not 20xtimes

Also I see your still under the idea Naruto can touch Goku with a 360 degree attack, instant transmission would prevent that and I already explained using the 100m dash explanation from 10 seconds to 0.5 seconds

Naruto can’t win since Goku can augment he’s stats to obscene height, the fight might start in favour of Naruto but the moment Goku uses a tranformation or the kaioken it would become a stomp, and that’s assuming he doesn’t power up using ki

And you could save yourself the time, cause you´re wrong mate, that isn´t the premise of the video and it isn´t the premise of the thread (just imagine that Naruto was a dbz super character if it makes it easier mate).

Don´t know where you from, so im going to sleep.

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#71 mbatz  Online

@asgardianweapon: Yo before you leave I watched the video

The premise was strange but yeah under those conditions Naruto would win

Its just a strange premise really he intentionally banned kaioken, intentionally made him MUI so he can’t transform into further transformotions, he knew full well its 2 minutes to 24 hours+, he didn’t mention equal chakra/ki which would’ve meant Goku could power up, and the match wasnt equalised Goku and Naruto had unequal stamina

But yeah your correct, your right

It’s a weird premise though, I apologise for wasting your time.

In a real equalised battle though I think my arguments would win or at least have worth under these some equalised stats battle Naruto wins

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@mbatz said:

It’s a weird premise though, I apologise for wasting your time.

In a real equalised battle though I think my arguments would win or at least have worth under these some equalised stats battle Naruto wins


Nah i was kinda of a jerk too sorry, no need to apologise

Yeah in a real equalised battle i think things would go much like your way too as Goku is a beast