naruto vs goku, presenting SethTheProgrammer

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obitoad

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i was joking. seth isnt really here. but we are, and we are using his newest vid as reference. base the last naruto vs base current goku, with equalized stats.

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Gokluma

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#3  Edited By Gokluma

Well i ain't going to like it at all since Seththeprogrammer has too much dbz biased in his mind filled with random acts of laughing like a cocky rich girl.

but anyway i'm hoping it isn't too bad.

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obitoad

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@gokluma: lol u literally have goku in ur name

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Gokluma

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@obitoad: Well because i like his character but ain't liking his fanboys

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TheVivas

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Already a thread about this.

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deactivated-5c531e53b02be

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@obitoad said:

i was joking. seth isnt really here. but we are, and we are using his newest vid as reference. base the last naruto vs base current goku, with equalized stats.

Naruto stomps.

Even with MUI Naruto would stomp.

Naruto has everything Goku has and more.

Also already a thread.

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obitoad

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oh, i was looking for it, but couldnt find it. are u talking about the one mui goku vs spsm naruto?

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LOLSALTTY

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TheDeathstar

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lol at Naruto even coming close to Standard Goku in H2H let alone MUI.

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TheBeardOfZues

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Naruto stomps.

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deactivated-5b6ce8bba1f99

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@thedeathstar: Dragon ball characters don't have a defense mechanism nor knowledge about Genjutsu, they lost by default, as vegeta said, strength is useless if one can't know how to use it!

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RukelnikovFTW

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@thedeathstar: Dragon ball characters don't have a defense mechanism nor knowledge about Genjutsu, they lost by default, as vegeta said, strength is useless if one can't know how to use it!

Manga Goku: Hakai gg

Anime Goku: It pretty much boils down to, can Naruto overwhelm Goku with Kage Bunshins? And its pretty clear cut he can't, Goku can just fly up and keep spamming ki blasts, and KHH, and when he gets bored, just go for a Genki Dama. Base Naruto has no answer to flight.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Hakai on a clone does nothing

2.) Clones would overwhelm him, what do you mean no counters to flight? He can throw his clones or use RS.

Goku is out matched here, giving them access to their higher modes would only widen the gap.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#15  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Hakai on a clone does nothing

Do the clones have the same power as main body? I know they mimic chakra patterns, but are they exactly as strong? I really don't think so, Goku can tell clones from main body due to power level sensing.

2.) Clones would overwhelm him, what do you mean no counters to flight? He can throw his clones or use RS.

Goku is out matched here, giving them access to their higher modes would only widen the gap.

Goku can fly to the atmosphere if needed, to gather energy for the Genki dama... or just planet bust. As I said, Naruto not being able to fly gives Goku as much time as he wants.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Spirt Bomb doesn't work on pure hearted people so Naruto can just deflect it.

2.) Stats equal means he can't planet busy and that's not even IC for him, neither is running away like a coward. Not that it matters Naruto ends this fight rather quickly Goku is one dimensional compared to the likes of Madara, Sasuke, Obito, and Kaguya.

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deactivated-5b6ce8bba1f99

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@rukelnikovftw: the destruction technique require a head-on distance, a fixated position, and to remain like that till the targeted is destroyed, it will be biased to put the character at such a distance unlike them being either far or close from each other, and Genjutsu is immediate! but since there is no prep tag, i suppose neither character know about each other but, since there is no in-character tag, this means each character will try all of their best arsenal autmatically

considering goku Genki dama takes time, nope

Kamehameha seems plausible but will probably hit a clone shadow

ki blasts seems fit to terminate all clones shadows

-

naruto rasenshuriken can cut at a cellular level, so that would one shot goku but goku can just couter force it like pain

then Genjutsu happens and the fight ends

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RukelnikovFTW

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#18  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Spirt Bomb doesn't work on pure hearted people so Naruto can just deflect it.

2.) Stats equal means he can't planet busy and that's not even IC for him, neither is running away like a coward. Not that it matters Naruto ends this fight rather quickly Goku is one dimensional compared to the likes of Madara, Sasuke, Obito, and Kaguya.

Is the fight IC? Because OOC, Naruto cant do anything...

IC, Goku sense power levels and goes straight for main body, Naruto doesn't hold a candle to Goku in H2H.

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TheBeardOfZues

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#19  Edited By TheBeardOfZues

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Naruto can do more than Goku as I just shut down your spirtbomb/planet bust argument.

2.) Just like how the Bakugan and Sharingan fail to see a difference in his Chakra? Yea that's not happening.

H2h doesn't mean shit here

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Naruto can do more than Goku as I just shut down your spirtbomb/planet bust argument.

No you didn't, you just cried OOC

2.) Just like how the Bakugan and Sharingan fail to see a difference in his Chakra? Yea that's not happening.

Dojutsu sense chakra, not powerlevel.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) It was a trash tier argument suggesting a character would so something be wouldn't and it got shut down.

2.) The "PL" in Naruto is chakra and Naruto splits his Chakra evenly into the clones they all have the same "PL"

Fight starts and Naruto uses shadow Clone, Goku tries to fight them all and get overwhelmed.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#22  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) It was a trash tier argument suggesting a character would so something be wouldn't and it got shut down.

Its what being OOC does, you clearly don't have an argument for Naruto winning OOC. Now that OOC goes to Goku we can discuss IC.

2.) The "PL" in Naruto is chakra and Naruto splits his Chakra evenly into the clones they all have the same "PL"

Fight starts and Naruto uses shadow Clone, Goku tries to fight them all and get overwhelmed.

Why would he? Sasuke wasn't getting overwhelm second VotE fight, and Goku's H2H is far beyond his

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TheBeardOfZues

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#23  Edited By TheBeardOfZues

@rukelnikovftw: Sounds to me that the only reason Goku wins this fight is because of your personal bias. Because so far you have no argument.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw: Sounds to me that the only reason Goku wins this fight is because of your personal bias. Because so far you have no argument.

I gave an argument for Goku winning OOC, and an argument for him at least not losing straight away IC, as you suggested he would. On the other hand you still have given no argument besides spam clones and overwhelm, a strategy that failed against someone with worse taijutsu than Goku.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw: Yea OOC isn't how you debate meaning you have nothing.

Cool he can pop some clones with hand to hand but he still gets overwhelmed eventually.

Litteraly everything you've said has had a simple counter.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw: Yea OOC isn't how you debate meaning you have nothing.

Cool he can pop some clones with hand to hand but he still gets overwhelmed eventually.

Litteraly everything you've said has had a simple counter.

Was sasuke overwhelmed at VotE?

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TheBeardOfZues

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#27  Edited By TheBeardOfZues

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) What in the name of stupid logic is that? I'm not debating OOC because that's not how the characters are hence the name "OUT OF CHARACTER" now come up with an actual debate.

2.) Goku doesn't have a Sharingan/rinniegan or the versitile move set Sasuke has, Goku got matched in h2h by Frezia who doesn't even train he's getting overwhelmed and nothing you've stated has countered that.

"Did Sasuke get overwhelmed?" Lmao, please bud equal stats Sasuke would thrash Goku worse than Naruto. Apple's =\= Oranges.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) What in the name of stupid logic is that? I'm not debating OOC because that's not how the characters are hence the name "OUT OF CHARACTER" now come up with an actual debate.

You already conceded OOC a couple posts ago, don't know why you keep bringing them up.

2.) Goku doesn't have a Sharingan/rinniegan

Goku can read moves from a guy that steps out of time, that's more impressive than the mini precog Sharingan has, and means he can read Naruto with extreme ease.

or the versitile move set Sasuke,

What did sasuke use in VotE 2nd, when fighting the clones that Goku can't replicate? Taijutsu? Goku is far better. Area attacks? Goku is outlandishly better.

Goku got matched in h2h by Frezia who doesn't even train he's getting overwhelmed and nothing you've stated has countered that.

Frieza is quite probably the greatest combat prodigy in the series. 4 months of training made him the most powerful mortal in his universe.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

FYI Sasuke was getting overwhelmed he had to use an AOE inferno style attack to stop Naruto from kicking that ass.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw:

FYI Sasuke was getting overwhelmed he had to use an AOE inferno style attack to stop Naruto from kicking that ass.

Exactly why I said area attacks, cause I know he used that, and its perfectly acceptable within the context of this fight. Maybe you wanna make this H2H only so that Naruto and his clones stand a better chance? I'd be willing to keep arguing under those conditions if you want.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) OOC was never an argument? Are you trolling. The ole classic "I used a pointless argument, and he didn't reply! Conceded!" Lmao

2.) Cool I guess? He can guess where a predictable person is going to attack, try guessing where 3k unpredictable people are going to attack.

3.) His entire arsenal, and no Goku isn't better at AOE attacks nor is he as smart, versitile, or deadly as Sasuke in equal stat fights.

4.) Not once did Freiza train in hand to hand.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#32  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) OOC was never an argument? Are you trolling. The ole classic "I used a pointless argument, and he didn't reply! Conceded!" Lmao

You did reply, saying that you shot it down, when the only thing you said was that's OOC

2.) Cool I guess? He can guess where a predictable person is going to attack, try guessing where 3k unpredictable people are going to attack.

He can guess where the greatest assasin in the multiverse will attack, even after stepping out of time, Naruto is mid tier skill H2H when compared to dragon ball characters, on the other hand Hit with his H2H was able to stand up for a prolonged amount of time against Jiren, someone who outclassed him vastly. Wanna try me using Hit instead of Goku for this fight? Spoiler, Naruto gets schooled.

3.) His entire arsenal, and no Goku isn't better at AOE attacks nor is he as smart, versitile, or deadly as Sasuke in equal stat fights.

Goku is better at AoE, and smarter fight-wise, versatility goes to Sasuke mainly because Genjutsu, maybe you forget Goku has a better teleport than Sasuke, can fly, read minds, use telekinesis... Deadlyness goes to Sasuke since Goku generally doesn't go for the kill.

4.) Not once did Freiza train in hand to hand.

Riiiiiight... so... I guess his 4 months of training with Tagome were... IDK, poker?

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Because it was shot down, you used an invald argument and I shut it down by saying Goku would never do that. It would be like saying Naruto spams thousands of RS.

2.)yes because he was predictable, Naruto is not.

3.) No Goku doesn't have greater AOE, Sasuke does with his Fire and Lightning releases. I'll give you Goku being better at Teleporting but that doesn't help Goku, Clones hard counter that. Sasuke is smarter no contest, Goku won't try to end the fight instantly hell drag it out which isn't smart.

3.) Feel free to show some scans of Fezia training hand to hand

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RukelnikovFTW

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#34  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw:

1.) Because it was shot down, you used an invald argument and I shut it down by saying Goku would never do that. It would be like saying Naruto spams thousands of RS.

You clearly don't understand the meaning of OOC.

2.)yes because he was predictable, Naruto is not.

Predictable when you are Goku, luckily it is Goku in this fight.

3.) No Goku doesn't have greater AOE, Sasuke does with his Fire and Lightning releases. I'll give you Goku being better at Teleporting but that doesn't help Goku, Clones hard counter that. Sasuke is smarter no contest, Goku won't try to end the fight instantly hell drag it out which isn't smart.

Goku's punches AoE can reach the whole universe if he doesn't stop them from doing so (as he did in BoG), so... No, Sasuke doesn't have greater AoE than Goku's punches. Sasuke lost the smart departmant during the Kage Summit, when he thought he could take on everyone, and each one of them outclassed him individually, that's really stupid.

3.) Feel free to show some scans of Fezia training hand to hand

No scans, pretty sure Fukkatsu no F is not canonn to the manga Super, there's a scene in the anime that shows Tagoma beat up in the floor.

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TheBeardOfZues

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#35  Edited By TheBeardOfZues

@rukelnikovftw: OOC means out of character, it's like Goku can bust a planet but wouldn't do it while IC...

Sasuke still has better AOE, stats are equal here bud Goku isn't shaking the universe in this battle.

These points are getting redundant, tell me why and how Goku wins IC because we are debating the characters how they are. And I'll counter.

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kiba

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So what I'm seeing here is Naruto wins but only if Goku has every handicap possible put on him. K. Basically 75% of Gokus hard work training and whatnot are irrelevant while Narutos isnt. Looks fair

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RukelnikovFTW

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#37  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@thebeardofzues said:

@rukelnikovftw: OOC means out of character, it's like Goku can bust a planet but wouldn't do it while IC...

Exactly... which is why the strategy itself functions perfectly. Goku wouldn't use it IC. but OOC it can be done.

Sasuke still has better AOE, stats are equal here bud Goku isn't shaking the universe in this battle.

Why should they be equalized down?

This points are getting redundant, tell me why and how Goku wins IC because we are debating the characters how they are. And I'll counter.

I see the fight going similarly as 2nd VotE, Goku pressures Naruto in H2H, and uses omnidirectional AoE whenever there are too many clones around him. Note that IC Naruto hasn't used hundreds or more clones in H2H since PTS, he suses them mainly for other things like human staircases and stuff.

I'm not saying Goku necesarily wins, but I don't see Naruto overwhelming him either. I think its who will run out of stamina first, Stats are equal, so Kage bunshin spam should take a heavier toll than simply punching and dodgin with some kiai weaved inbetween.

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Amonfire1776

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#38  Edited By Amonfire1776

In character Naruto is no more likely to use hacks than Goku...

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw:

If Stats are equalized up Sasuke/Naruto would also be Universal so I'd still give Sasuke the edge in AOE.

OOC Goku would beat Base Naruto, it's much closer if it's OOC 6 paths Naruto.

I don't really see it happening like Vote 2, Naruto was playing defense just to save Sasuke, he'd be a little active.

Overwhelming him was a reach, I see it happening more like Neji and Naruto he'll find a way in eventually.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@amonfire1776: Base Naruto doesn't have hacks nor does he need them here.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#41  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@rukelnikovftw:

If Stats are equalized up Sasuke/Naruto would also be Universal so I'd still give Sasuke the edge in AOE.

I can't see why, but this is pointless anyway.

OOC Goku would beat Base Naruto, it's much closer if it's OOC 6 paths Naruto.

Definitely, 6PSM has much more at his disposal.

I don't really see it happening like Vote 2, Naruto was playing defense just to save Sasuke, he'd be a little active.

Fair enough.

Overwhelming him was a reach, I see it happening more like Neji and Naruto he'll find a way in eventually.

Well I guess this is the thing, I think Goku is the one who would eventually find the way, Goku is always studying his enemies during fights, understanding their strengths and weaknesses, and devising ways to counter and exploit them. This is why I don't think is a clear cut win for Naruto, as you originally stated. Both can beat the other, its up to who can last longer and who can crack the others strategy first.

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TheBeardOfZues

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@rukelnikovftw: I can see the ways Goku can win I just see more options for Naruto.

Using Substitution/transformation and clones I see him tricking Goku.

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RukelnikovFTW

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@rukelnikovftw: I can see the ways Goku can win I just see more options for Naruto.

Using Substitution/transformation and clones I see him tricking Goku.

Naruto is definitely the craftier of the two, but he isn't used to fighting people that don't use their eyes, he can't hide from Goku, and Substitution/Henge won't work either, lacking this knowledge on his part may very well cost him the battle, since he may think he's hidden when he's actually not.

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GXrevs06

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Goku planet busts

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TheBeardOfZues

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@gxrevs06: Equal stats... Plus OOC...Plus that would kill him too.

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FaradaySloth

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Why is this on general discussion.

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infamous5445

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@kiba said:

So what I'm seeing here is Naruto wins but only if Goku has every handicap possible put on him. K. Basically 75% of Gokus hard work training and whatnot are irrelevant while Narutos isnt. Looks fair

Gotta throw a bone to Naruto fans somehow.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@thebeardofzues: Can't base form Naruto fly because of six paths chakra? Or does he need to be in six paths sage mode? I'm pretty sure he can still fly in base

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BatmanPlusJay

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@kiba: Because Goku is obviously a lot stronger than Naruto. It's like y'all Goku Stans think it's a sin for people to nerf Goku to even the playing field, because y'all know all Goku has going for him is raw power. But when the stats are equal and it boils down to skill, versatility and strategy Naruto stomps and there's nothing Goku could do about it.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@rukelnikovftw: I'm not sure why you believe Goku is better than Naruto in hand to hand combat. Lmao. As an adult Naruto is nothing at all like he used to be when he last fought Sasuke.