MCU/WoDC Power Tiers

@thebestofthebest:

SB isn't as dangerous as Diana's sword when it boils down to piercing. It barely even pierced Thanos

Depends on your definition of "barely", but Stormbreaker definitely pierced a few inches into Thanos at the very least:

That wound frankly looks big enough that Hemsworth could stick his entire finger in there. In fact, it looks like he could probably get his entire hand in there.

Looking at concept art, you can see that a pretty decent chunk of the axe was actually inside Thanos at this point:

All of that area in red (and some outside it) was inside Thanos. Comparing it to the size of Thor's hands, that's a pretty big wound.

And all of this is ignoring the fact that axes aren't really meant for stabbing anyway. They're designed for chopping.

And finally, do you really think that Stormbreaker wasn't slowed down in any way by the IG beam?

@xzone Just in case you missed this.

@chronicplane: His older armor

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@thebestofthebest said:

@xzone:

Debatable

No. It isn't.

Obviously is

Flying through the entire building>Flying through the side of the building...

Who even said anything about that? My god...

Pretty sure you said Zod/Superman were destroying skyscrapers

I did read your post, but I disagree

No, you did not otherwise you'd know that these following feats:

• A weakened Superman overpowered the World Engine's terraforming/gravity beam and one shotted the engine itself with a single speedblitz (a city block level feat, the Engine was shacking the city and displaced what had to be thousands of thousands of gallons of water upon initial activation).
• He was able as to damage the Kryptonian scout ship which was buried under a mountain of ice for more than 20,000 years, same ship that busted its way through said mountain without a single dent on it whatsoever while causing a powerful earthquake in the process (2:12 and up).
• Busted the top of a small mountain, on accident.

Are well beyond Skycraper busting level.

Yeah, I was responding to your skyscraper comments, but it's possible I was mistaken. However, I did read what you said

Probably true, but above Thor's lightning strikes which Thor can use mid battle? No

What? The gravity beam is beyond Thor's lightning strikes in potency, feat-wise.

Debatable..

That's as ridiculous as saying MCU Hulk's strength is above 616 Iron Man's.

Come on.. Why you gotta do that lol

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Pre-IW(no hulkbuster) was the one referring too, unless your using a specific armor like Civil War or IM3.

@scipio123: Oh, it's you again, hey there buddy. Visual evidence suggest that SB wasn't slowed down by the blast, it maintained the exact same speed while cutting through the said blast. [0:19 - 0:27]

Edit:

Depends on your definition of "barely", but Stormbreaker definitely pierced a few inches into Thanos at the very least:

I never said otherwise. In fact, I argued the same thing.. a while ago.

But if you don't mind me asking, what was the purpose of you tagging me, exactly?

Yeah, like I said I'm still editing and you may be correct

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How about the fact that he contended with 616 Earth's top tiers such as the Hulk, and Thor and Sentry, all of whom are vastly superior to the MCU high tiers combined in term of strength. Emphasis on "vastly".

@xzone:

Obviously is

It really isn't. Superman striking/speedblitzes >>>> Hammerless Thor.

Pretty sure you said Zod/Superman were destroying skyscrapers

The tie ins already confirmed Zod's capable of bringing down four skyscrapers nigh-instantly and could burn the city to the ground under 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure that's well above Skyscraper level. Likewise, overpowering Superman's speedblitzes >> Skyscraper level, based off of the previously-posted feats.

Yeah, I was responding to your skyscraper comments, but it's possible I was mistaken. However, I did read what you said

In doing so you ignored more than half of my post, lol.

Debatable..

How's that above the gravity beam, potency-wise? Do I need to list the Engine's feats all over again? C'mon, Z.

Come on.. Why you gotta do that lol

Lel.

@thebestofthebest:

Oh, it's you again, hey there buddy.

And it's you. Who didn't respond to my last post in the Thor vs Wonder Woman thread.

Visual evidence suggest that SB wasn't slowed down by the blast, it maintained the exact same speed while cutting through the said blast.

Actually, I would argue that it shows the opposite, but I guess this is fairly subjective.

I never said otherwise.

Ok. Then why why did you say that it "barely" pierced Thanos? Several inches is not "barely".

But if you don't mind me asking, what was the purpose of you tagging me, exactly?

I disagreed with something you said. Isn't that normally the reason people tag each other on here?

@thebestofthebest: Okay and I'm sure he did none of that under just brute strength unless he was in a Hulkbuster special suit

@thebestofthebest said:

@xzone:

Obviously is

It really isn't. Superman striking/speedblitzes >>>> Hammerless Thor.

A speed blitz is different from a simple punch. The only feats you really mentioned were blitzes and that's not really what I was referring to. Clark's speed blitzes are probably>Thor's punches

Pretty sure you said Zod/Superman were destroying skyscrapers

The tie ins already confirmed Zod's capable of bringing down four skyscrapers nigh-instantly and could burn the city to the ground under 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure that's well above Skyscraper level. Likewise, overpowering Superman's speedblitzes >> Skyscraper level, based off of the previously-posted feats.

Would you mind showing me said time he overpowered the speed blitz? IIRC, both of them flew backwards from the combine shockwave of both attacks

Like this. Not that this isn't impressive, but it's not the same as just overpowering his speed blitz (Unless I'm misremembering)

Yeah, I was responding to your skyscraper comments, but it's possible I was mistaken. However, I did read what you said

In doing so you ignored more than half of my post, lol.

No, I simply found it unimpressive and inaccurate

Debatable..

How's that above the gravity beam, potency-wise? Do I need to list the Engine's feats all over again? C'mon, Z.

Probably because Thor referenced to this lightning as his most powerful lightning blast (Didn't technically say that but it was heavily implied), and because of the size of the lightning bolt

That means it scales to these (Which by the size of the lightning bolt makes perfect sense)

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@scipio123:

And it's you. Who didn't respond to my last post in the Thor vs Wonder Woman thread.

I didn't get your tag. I was arguing with multiple people, on multiple different topics at the same time. But I'll make sure to check it out.

Actually, I would argue that it shows the opposite, but I guess this is fairly subjective.

Elaborate.

Ok. Then why why did you say that it "barely" pierced Thanos? Several inches is not "barely".

That was in response to it easily "killing" Doomsday. You clearly haven't read the discussion.

I disagreed with something you said. Isn't that normally the reason people tag each other on here?

You don't say

This pretty much confirms your knowledge on 616 Iron Man (standard suit) is nonexistent. I'll get the scans later.

@thebestofthebest:

I didn't get your tag. I was arguing with multiple people, on multiple different topics at the same time. But I'll make sure to check it out.

No need. I was just joking lol!

Elaborate.

I felt that it did slow down slightly. But as I said, its subjective since it isn't absolutely clear and we also don't have much of a base line for how fast Stormbreaker normally is.

That was in response to it easily "killing" Doomsday. You clearly haven't read the discussion.

I did read it and I do think Stormbreaker can kill DD via decapitation.

Not sure I would give Thor the win in an actual fight though.

@scipio123: Alright, broski. Fair enough.

I put Hulk in high tier. Right below Zod. He is beyond underrated. It honestly hurts me to say that too since he has claims in this thread made about him that wank him to crazy levels.

Inb4 cosmic-level DCEU Superman.

@drpepperman: What feats does he have to be on high tier level though?

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@xzone: he was in general shown as Thor level pre Lightning.

Strength: stopped a bite from Fenris (Fenris cracked the Bifrost gy running,) caught a Warhammer strike from Thor (you're the MCU Thor expert of CV so no explanation necessary,) and caught a punch from the Hulkbuster (Tony previously matched a punch from the Hulk.) I'm general, I feel like Hulk has better lifting than his striking by implication.

Striking strength: The Leviathan scene (those things are larger than small buildings,) denting Vibranium (Vibranium no sold a hit from Mjolnior,) moving Surtur with a leaping hit (at least kind of impressive and definitely above mid tiers IMO,) and hurting Thor (Thor's state after the Sokovia explosion shows how durable he is.)

Speed: caught an RPG from a couple meters away, outpaced Abomination who caught an RPG behind his back, caught an ejection seat, and wasn't COMPLETELY blitzed by Thor despite Thor's small size, agility, and skill advantage.

Durability: tanked a hit from Mjolnior to the face, tanked multiple punches from the Hulkbuster right to the face, got slammed through a skyscraper and got back up, tanked multiple hits from Thor (one sending him through dozens of meters of metal, which he also tanked,) got back up after Lightning from Thor, got back up after a lightning-imbued hit from Thor, tanked being thrown by Surtur so hard he cracked the Bifrost twice, arguably tanked Surtur's heat that melted metal which unaffected by Thor's lightning, and took hits from Thanos better than Iron Man did in his bleeding edge armor.

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@dogzee: Here is Iron Man lifting a submarine from underwater (would have weighed more than usual since it had water pouring in):

That's far above 1,000 tons. If you don't like that one, I've got plenty more.

Ehh, I'd disagree on a few points; keep in mind, my ranking combine destructive capability, hax/versatility, skill, gear, and experience

-Flash should be between Loki and Giant Man

-Switch Proxima and Corvus, then put BP above Proxima and under Corvus

-Put Wasp above normal Iron Man

-Drop Wanda way down to above Vision, leave Rider as is

-IW Iron Man should be above or equal to Zod

-Time Stone Strange should be equal to or above 3 stone Thanos-

-War Machine should be equal to Iron Spider

-Daredevil should be above unfisted Danny, with fisted Danny above Luke Cage

-Put Bruce between Steve and Elektra

-Move Luke down around Bucky's level

-Ego above Odin

@stumerica: Would you mind not quoting the entire thing? Kinda in the way

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Bump

@xzone: Sorry. What do you think of my suggestions though?

It's fine, and if you wouldn't mind editing it. As to the suggestions:

-Flash should be between Loki and Giant Man

Why though? What has he shown to be>Loki?

-Switch Proxima and Corvus, then put BP above Proxima and under Corvus

Proxima has a ranged weapon, and I kinda doubt Black Panther>Proxima

-Put Wasp above normal Iron Man

No lol

-Drop Wanda way down to above Vision, leave Rider as is

But Wanda already beat Vision and is obviously more powerful

-IW Iron Man should be above or equal to Zod

Kinda doubt it. Stark is strong, but idk if he's there

-Time Stone Strange should be equal to or above 3 stone Thanos-

Why though?

-War Machine should be equal to Iron Spider

Don't agree

-Ego above Odin

Why though? Odin has better feats

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1. Barry and Loki cancel each other out-One likely can't hurt the other, while one likely can't tag the other.

2. I won't deny Proxima's range (or even skill) advantage; however, keep in mind Corvus stabbed Vision, a human sized robot composed of Vibranium and synthetic skin. That'd definitely hurt T'Challa. Also, Panther's not inherently above Proxima, but rather he's more likely to beat her than Corvus.

3. Ant-Man, who has not only been proven notably less competent than Hope, but with just around a year of experience, did decent damage to Tony's armor, Hope should be fine; keep in mind her stingers allows for more damage than Scott can.

4. Context-her win over Vision was dictated by her influence over the Stone, as well as Vision's reluctance. Who's to say he'd lose if he wanted to fight? I took a holistic approach to power ranking here, and the glass cannon factor does limit Wanda notably.

5. I could see that one changing, actually.

6. Because a Doctor Strange w/o his stone matched a Thanos (who was actively) using 4 stones.

7. Rhodes has experience and firepower, Peter has speed and versatility; cancels each other out in my mind.

8. True, but does he have ones to suggest he can destroy a moon-level opponent?

Thinking you could make one more tier below "Low Tier", called "Street Tier" or something.

Basically people who are below the low superhuman level like Cap or Proxima. Some people who could go into this lowest tier would be Widow, Daredevil, etc.

@xzone:

Aquaman underwater should be down a tier.

Scarlet Witch should be 1 tier below Where she is now.

Hela should be down 1 tier

Kurse is way too high

Thor already beat thanos with the full ig.

Not sure why you have quicksilver about the flas. Barry is Mach 24. QS is Mach 5

You’ve said yourself that Wonder Woman would beat Iron Man. So I’m not sure why he’s a tier above her. Ares stomps him too.

BvS Diana should be on The same level of BvS superman. If we use logic. She fought Doomsday a lot better than he did.

Odin has no feats. No duribility feats, no streth feats and no speed feats.

other than that it’s fine.

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@xzone:

This is a power tier list. QS would be frozen to Barry. In his bio it said Barry’s suit had to be at least Mach 24 or else it’ll explode.

well have to agree to disagree with Iron Man because you won’t change your mind.

You need to rewatch the trinity vs doomsday fight. Superman didn’t touch Doomsday without either him being distracted or Diana’s help. Superman legit did no damage to him while Diana cut him three times and Cut off his hand. Re read old Diana vs superman threads are people were either saying she was far above him or they were equals. It’s not just me.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/dceu-superman-vs-dceu-wonder-woman-1805080/

We don’t know how he defeated surtur and Hela. He could’ve had help or used a certain tactic. It’s wierd how youre fine on accepting statements for Odin defeating hela and surtur but refuse to accept a statement on superman lifting a tectonic plate. (Authough I don’t think either are valid).

Okay so you think odin has asgardian level duribility (im fine with that). Cool. He would sill get one shotted by anyone’s offensive attack from 2 tiers below him.

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@xzone: Composite Pre-IW Ironman > Faora and pretty much on same level/greater than Unarmed Thor.

@xzone:

I read it. not only is QS far below him speed wise, but he cannot percive Barry so I cant imagine a plausible reason to how he’d actually win.

Clark got physically outclassed and literally did nothing. He didnt tickle Doomsday. By your logic then BvS superman would be above Doomsday. What your logic behind BvS Superman being a whole tier above Diana? She even fought Doomsday for a while while superman was doing god knows what. Zach made it highly clear that they were equals.

I know you understand how this works because youre not slow. Odin has not used reality warping or time minipulation in an offensive way. We have no proof that he wouldn’t be immediately electrocuted by Thor or ares, blitzed by Superman or Diana, or flat out physically outmatched by hulk or cull.

High Tier:

9. Aquaman (Trident and underwater)

11.Superman (MOS)

Lol.

@xzone: Eh, Steve was tremendously holding back, and stilll held a slight edge against WS in their multiple encounters in TWS, plus CW clearly showed that how Steve performs against BP and Peter >>> how Bucky performs against BP and Peter. Cap has also generally better Feats that don't require scaling from one Character, like a decent chunk of Bucky's do.

Decent I wonder how much this will change after Endgame

Bump

Hulk is not a mid-tier, but more importantly...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ MCU Hulk being stronger than 616 Iron Man. I spilled some milk from my cereal.

EDIT: Also...

Hulkbuster is too high IMO. Bleeding Edge is closer to mid than he is high tier. BVS Supes should be > MCU Thor (again, imo). Vibranium Ultron might be a bit higher, he's durable asf (hence Vibranium...) and his striking left bruises/cuts on Thor till well after the events of Sokovia. Surtur (non-prime) might be a bit too high. Wasp is definitely too high imo. Bucky shouldn't be > Cap.

Some of these are in-tier problems, but earlier in the thread, for example, you specified Hulk is high end mid tier because he's high in the list.

@supremegeneration: I'm interesting in hearing some arguments for Hulk being in the high tier list

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Graviton and Daisy should be higher

@xzone

Your list is broken. I'm not sure what criteria you're using exactly because you claim overall power and battle application or even realism because if you considered all three your list would be very different. Other things I've seen you using but failed to mention are statements, character portrayal and in universe logic.

There is no way you can have Odin in the sky-father tier and leave out someone like DCEU Zeus. The guy created an island that's probably bigger than Asgard itself and used magic to hide it and giving it a completely different time-flow( if you think Odin can control time which he hasn't then Zeus trumps him because Themiscyra has its own separate day and night sequence), created the Amazons, WW ( better than depowering Thor) and mankind.

Overall power

Herald tier

I'm going to focus on herald tier and below because the rest are just broken characters.

1. Thor (Stormbreaker)
2. Thanos (Power, Space, and Reality Stones)
3. Ronan (Power Stone)
4. Doctor Strange (Time Stone)
5. Superman (JL)
6. Doomsday
7. Hela

I'm not sure what you used here, is it feats, DC, attack potency or hax. Not to mention, does overall power also include durability? (because outside of Thor, DD and SM these guys wouldn't belong here ). Strange's timestone is hax but that's the only thing going on for him in this tier, he is short on DC, strength, attack potency, durability, speed and versatility. This means you relied only on one aspect to put him here if this is the case I can think of a few others who would fit here based on a single aspect which would invalidate you judgement based on overall power.

You have to re-define your overall power because some of these guys lack in at least 2 aspects for them to be in the same category.

High tier

The same problem with Strange only this time there is AO, Wanda, Kurse, Thanos, ( I'm not familiar with AoS chars so I'll pass). What overall power does Strange have that puts him in this tier? His most useful attacks are BFR and timestone, he doesn't have the latter. Aquaman with the trident only has enhanced TP, the old trident will still pierce anyone here as much as the new trident will

Mid tiers and Low tiers

I think by now you get the picture. Overall power has to be defined, what categories are you using and are you relying on feats or both feats and statements.

1. Destructive capacity
   
2. Strength
3. Energy projection
4. Versatility
5. Attack potency
6. Striking
7. Hax
8. Speed

I believe all these should come into play if you're talking about overall power. But that's just my opinion. Because if you did the you wouldn't have placed someone like Spider-man, QS, Loki, BP in the same category as Faora, SW, Nam-Ek, Ares, WW, Thor, Ultron and Hulk. That just poor judgment on your part.

Battle application

Herald tier

This too I'm uncertain of what you based it on. Per standard forum rules Strange won't be here at all, any of these guys would stop him from using the time stone from 10 ft away. Also win conditions usually range from incapacitation to death, putting anyone here in a time-loop isn't going to help him. Not to mention other than DD, these guys are smart enough to notice the glowing thing in his hands and neck and work on it. In a 1 vs 1 scenario, none of these guys are tagging let alone matching Clark in speed other than DD. This alone gives him an unfair advantage.

High tiers

How exactly do fights play out in your head when you pit these characters against each other? Do you think it's going to be like in the movies for example Thanos and Strange squaring off and taking turns throwing attacks? How do you see Thor Ragnarok beating Thanos when he himself admitted on screen that facing Thanos without a weapon is suicide? How is Mjolnir Thor in the same category with someone that almost killed him ( Kurse)

How is Kurse, Thanos, IM in the same category as SM ( both BvS and MOS), Zod when they both literally beat them in every category you can bring up? ( well other than size)

This s not mentioning that some of these characters relied on numbers and PIS to be in this category, something that won't happen especially with standard forum rules ( I suggest you read them BTW).

And the glass canons, damn.

Mid tiers and low tiers

I think I've made my point by now. Spider-man isn't beating Nam-ek in a million years. QS isn't beating WW in a million years. Loki isn't beating Hulk ( I have to lol at this one, you know why) and WM isn't beating Ultron either

Realism

Herald tier

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I can think of more than 10 people in the low tier that can take out Strange if we were to be realistic. I can think of at least three people with TK that will and has already countered him in battle. I can think of several more who would blitz him and oneshot him ( remember this is not his comic counterpart with auto-shields,) if we're being realistic because unlike his counterparts, he has no durability and his most powerful tool requires pre-battle preparation to open the eye and some hand movements once he's opened it before casting it. Don't know how slow you think fictional characters are but unless there is PIS involved ( which negates you need for realism) Strange will have to rely on something else other than the time stone if he was to take on 99% of the people you've placed below him.

High tier ,Mid tier and Low tier

There is not realistic way where Loki is in the same tier as Hulk, SM and Kurse, Thor and Wanda, Faora and BP, Ares and Ebony Maw below Strange

Ranking

Does the numbering affect the characters? If yes then why would you put SM, DD and Hela below Strange? Why would you BvS SM above MOS SM and Zod. Why would you put Wanda above Zod and SM, Loki above Ares, QS above Flash, Wasp above Flash?

If it doesn't affect the characters then why would you put Spider-man on an equal footing with Hulk? Why would you put BP on an equal footing with Thor?

My biggest caveat isn't that he's not high tier, it's that he's not in the same bracket as IW Stark. They should definitely be in the same tier. I recently did a decently lengthed analysis about their respective showings against Thanos, and Hulk actually not only took more hits (albeit 2), but he also didn't block any (Stark blocked 4/7 punches and still got sent flying). Hulk also casually moved Thanos with single punches, something Stark had to do several things to do (enlarge punches + add thrust to them). All of this, and to anyone with eyes it was obvious that Thanos was far, far more serious against Hulk than he was with Stark.

You also have Mjolnir Thor up there and while he was weakened during the Helicarrier fight, Hulk was physically manhandling him Loki style at one point (right before the Quinjet shows up). His durability is also highly up there, as Fenris rammed him through the rainbow bridge IIRC, breaking it. As I'm sure you know, this took Thor quite the number of Mjolnir hits. The two blows from Thor in their Ragnarok fight are also heavily impressive, given how he was still standing to fight (albeit heavily dazed).

@supremegeneration: Interesting. Where would you rate him, compared to the other MCU/WoDC high tiers?

@thebestofthebest: I'd put him somewhere between like Kurse and IW Stark, or even below IW Stark, I think the fight between the two is close. But he's definitely on that level.

@supremegeneration: Fair enough, I've always viewed him as a high tier. Hopefully he'll get some respect in End Game.

@supremegeneration: He’s only a couple of spots below IW Stark. High mid-low high tier

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The high tier list is so eff up, lol.

Scans? That is if you don't mind. Also, Superman even back in DoJ had a high level of operational speed. Quote:

I never bought the idea of JL Supes being more powerful or that much faster, they just chose to highlight his operational speed.

@macleen: A simple, "this character goes here" would suffice. Not going to go too in depth here. Like I said, I'm more or less combining those factors for the list. Yes, Doctor Strange may lose to Wonder Woman, but I'm also factoring in his overall power. I also said I'm still working through the list.

Does the numbering affect the characters? If yes then why would you put SM, DD and Hela below Strange?

With the time stone? Because he stalemated Dormammu. Like I already said, I'm factoring in overall power as well. If you think characters should be moved around, why don't you just explain why they should be?

Why would you BvS SM above MOS SM and Zod.

Why ask a question you already know the answer to?

Why would you put Wanda above Zod and SM, Loki above Ares, QS above Flash, Wasp above Flash?

Wanda because of the power she showed in IW, but you may be right. Maybe I should move her down a few spots. Loki with Gungnir is above Ares, and that's because I believe he's>Ares, but I'm open to changing the list. QS over flash I've already explained. Wasp over flash because she's far better at using her powers and I do think she's more powerful

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@thebestofthebest: Explain where I should move characters in the high tier?

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