MCU Thor beat beings and blew up things that took the Big Bang

The Dark Elves existed before and after the universe came to be per sources like Odin, Malekith, etc. So, they withstood the Big Bang. Malekith wished to undo the universe with the Reality Stone, which did no-sell the Big Bang.

However, they could not stand against the power of the mighty Thor.

Consistency wise this is great because while you might find an anti-feat for one Dark Elf or another, there are scores of elves that all took this feat, hence, there are thousands, millions, billions of feats - one feat per elf.

And neither could the Reality Stone.

Superman still statues.

@rajjarsalt: might wanna include Odin or Malekith’s statement of them predating creation

Oh ye. Does anyone disagree on that anymore

Indeed! Trust continuity!

Universal Thor confirmed

In all serious though, the Dark Elves were not from before the Big Bang. They come from when the universe was very young. There is a so called period of time in the beginning of the universe that I believe is called the Dark Ages in which light was much less common as photons were not being widely generated by stars and such.

Malekith remembers what it was like before light was born, though. He even tells Thor that the current universe wasn't meant to be.

But enough logic and deliberation of details. Evidence reigns supreme, and so it shall!

Nice. MCU Thor >>>> starversal CAS or no?

Heimdall sends him to the ICU as usual etc

@rajjarsalt: "Said" to be older than the universe itself. The Aether is also "said" to be before the universe itself, but it was shown to be untrue.

But Infinity Stones did predate the universe - they existed as singularities

@goldeneagle: Not to mention that it was confirmed by the director, too

@rajjarsalt: That is a good find, but it is still very vague and inconsistent. If they really existed before they main universe, then their home world would not still exist.

Why wouldn't it? And even if so...

These speculations should fit around officially confirmed stuff, not the other way around.

Speaking of which -

and yet thor gets zapped by nets and punched by hulk

nets and hulk>>>>>>>>>>>big bang.

Just to be clear... we all understand the Big Bang isn't actually a bang or explosion? Its a rapid expansion, Its also not necessarily a creation event either, just a scientific theory about how we understand and perceive the Universe as it currently is. Also depending on different groups of people understand such concepts, can determine how language is used. Like to some people dinosaurs would technically predate Creation, and to some Creation is an explosion, a literal Big Bang, doesn't necessarily mean that dinosaurs can persist through say a supernova the way a scientist understands it.

Or to put in another way, when you clap your hands you create sound and heat energy, not much, but when people talk about energy manipulation in say comics... so context is important! It is cool world building and lore though!

@sc: But in IW Wong mentioned how the universe was made by the Big Bang and the visuals of his projections showed an explosion, and explosion powerful enough to send stones hurtling trillions of light years away from each other, scattered all over the Universe.

@sc: well, taking a look at the mcu, it seems to be a literally burst of energy. Coincidentally, the latest trailer for eternals confirms that.

This makes me wonder where exactly the dark elves existed

@thorson0panda: @akztemp:

Sure... a popular artistic way of conveying the origins of the Universe that we'd also find in many science documentaries, because the actual occurrence as far as scale, scope, degree of expansion and so on, would be kind of hard to grasp and depict, especially with more nuance and accuracy. At least in entertainment films. You could have Wong talk about the Big Bang for 2 hours and still have 100's of hours to discuss aspects of it... but he doesn't of course. Thats what science documentaries about the Big Bang are for.

The main point is its not an explosion, and sometimes its viewed that way and then if we want to start to analyse what such events mean, in more detail like threads like this, well then we can introduce such detail and nuance as I did.

Think about it this way? Was a big deal when the first ever "picture of black hole" was revealed in 2019, but to some people it was just a glowy orange ring. How to actually depict "nothing" to show the "Big Bang" expansion is going to be an issue. You also don't want your Etermals and Dark Elves sounding uncertain or unsure about such processes.

Malekith: "We existed before this Universe... well before the current observable Universe, there is distinction. Also technically we mean great expansion which you humans theorise as the Big Bang. Algrim actually has an uhh degree in cosmology, he is trying to figure out the actual shape of the Universe so this little animation that Wong is showing you is a WIP (work in progress) I'll Zoom call Kurse in so he can explain it himself mmkay?"

They tend to act and speak more dramatically in sweeping generalisations. It can still be mysterious and clouded in awe. Just if the Avengers fight Dark Elves, you know that Cap and Hawkeye would be able to be the weaker ones, and then we could also say that Cap and Hawkeye beat things that took the Big Bang... so Thor doing it sounds less impressive.

Like humans are made of stardust! If one person beats another person and goes around saying they are more powerful than a being made of stardust!! That sounds cool, if you don't know we are all made of stardust. Well its still cool, just less uniquely impressive.

I like the Dark Elves and think they are rad and cool and mysterious, (yeah i actually liked Thor 2 lol).

@rajjarsalt: Okay. I guess you are right, but that means that the Aether is not from their time and came later.

@rajjarsalt: Hey, tag me in these threads next time you make them. I love me some DCEU Fanboys fighting against MCU..

Wow, wow, wow. The Mighty Thor always strikes the lightning. KRAKADOOM!

Universe+ level Loki

(Each Dark Elf equals a universe)

@akztemp said:

@jcomics2000 said:

Wow, wow, wow. The Mighty Thor always strikes the lightning. KRAKADOOM!

LMAFOOOOOOOOOO. What's this? Anyway, love it or hate it. The Mighty Thor strikes again. KRAKADOOM!

@happylife1996 said:

Universe+ level Loki

(Each Dark Elf equals a universe)

Cope

@violettagood: It is stated in the movie itself that the Dark Elves came before the birth of light

And as we know, the Big Bang does not predate the birth of light

If we went by purely evidence shown in the film, there would be no need of Word of God

@sc: IIRC the Big Bang is described as an explosion in GotG (When the universe "exploded" into existence) by Taneleer Tivan. There'd have to be some sort of force to send those Infinity Stones hurtling across the universe.

Cope

Nets depowered him and Hulk is just that good

Dumb argument

@jucaslucasa said:

MCU wankers be like

@jucaslucasa: Big Bang level cars. That’s just how powerful the MCU is.

@sirdragonfly said:

@jucaslucasa said:

MCU wankers be like

5 anti feats, 1 for each elf vs 1 gazillion big bang level feats tut tut

I doubt your faves are that consistent!

Well since the Dark Elves live w/o light, I treat it as photons, the emergence of them.

If we can't trust in-movie characters, then Word of God would be superior no? But before Word of God, I had used a production entry scan for Malekith to suggest he predated Big Bang.

Well since everything got compressed to a single point and then released a la Big Bang then I would say such a far distance (thousands of light years) of gravitational reach would be rendered null.

There is definitely force, its just an expansion. Which also doesn't necessarily downplay its "severity" or "intensity", as the kind of rapid expansion we are talking about, would probably be more intense than any of the kind of explosion most people who think about such things can imagine accurately. The point is... if a character in a movie explains something, they are either attempting to be as literal and accurate as possible... in which case they are wrong... or they are trying to convey an idea in a generalised sense, in which case a viewer interpreting it as the former would be wrong. (Or usually somewhere in between in which case there are degrees).

Such are the issues when attempting to analyse movie details. Though it is fun and can also lead to greater appreciation for the content and story. Like Thor 2/Dark Elves, were probably influenced/inspired by dark energy. Which is tied to the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe. Which is both more impressive really, because people who think the Big Bang was "an explosion" in the past tense, don't quite get expansion is still happening, but also means that we are the explosion in their terminology... we are existing in the middle of that ongoing explosion. Look at us, we are withstanding the Big Bang!

This is why I mentioned why context is important.

@jucaslucasa said:

Beat me to it, thank you. Intern with floating car> dark elves. /thread.

@TheGrat1: Wait. What are the floating cars about?

Yeah I read somewhere that the elves are made of dark matter, which is very interesting considering their origin story

Hmm I always thought of the Big Bang as an event which might have precluded me to seeing it as an ongoing process. Thanks for explaining!

@rawsos said:

@rajjarsalt said:

@rawsos said:

and yet thor gets zapped by nets and punched by hulk

Cope

Nets depowered him and Hulk is just that good

Indeed! Good thing Hulkbuster was there otherwise bye bye Earth!

Exactly, its very cool. Its too bad we didn't get to see more of the Dark Elves in general, how they interact with each other, how they live, so on, that would be cool.

No worries, Cosmology is very fun subject with so much in it, and it can really enhance comics for fans too, I take it you are a Thor fan too? A lot of general comic fans tend to not understand that Thor is a big cosmic character as well as mythological one in Marvel comics as far as his creators, Jack Kirby's influence, his adventures and so on. So downplay him!

Sometimes movies are also a bit guilty of its understanding of science too (and then both combine which leads to scenes like the one with that gif and the human guy slamming a car on a bunch of Dark Elves comedically) and nothing wrong with humour, just movies as entertainment tends to flip by wanting to impress you with mythical connotations an ideas of larger than life moments, to funny/silly gags half an hour later too.

Cheers!

@sc: From what I understand the teletubby masks prevent them from breathing in the new universe since light is toxic to their kind or whatever. Malekith takes his off because he is resigned to his fate. I do agree that they should have got more screen time.

Yes, I was brought into Thor comics from the Thor of myth and I've found the comics quite scintillating. I think the comics do a very good job at mixing cosmic and mythic elements together. I have gained some notoreity in that regard, but I have a tendency for downplay as well. Trust my intent here imo

Yeah it's quite silly how he was able to smash the very same elves he was running away from via Convergence logic.