• 128 results
#51 Posted by Full123 (4506 posts) - -

@thor_parker82: When has Superman been knocked out by less than Hiroshima, and what does that have to do with this thread?

#52 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16116 posts) - -

@full123 said:

@thor_parker82: When has Superman been knocked out by less than Hiroshima, and what does that have to do with this thread?

Many times, and it has to do with the fact that people using real life science and calculations for a fictional universe is ridiculous and most of the time plain wrong.

#53 Posted by Full123 (4506 posts) - -

@thor_parker82: Can you tell me those times?

I mean, most comics use scientific points to showcase a character's strength. Superman, and in an extension, DC Comics, have been known to do this.

#54 Posted by depinhom (13506 posts) - -

People should never say he is overestimated. He is very powerful. He would've killed Thor, people. Seriously.

#55 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16116 posts) - -

@full123 said:

@thor_parker82: Can you tell me those times?

I mean, most comics use scientific points to showcase a character's strength. Superman, and in an extension, DC Comics, have been known to do this.

Yeah, sure,

and my bad, I misinterpreted the calculations,Superman can effortlessly tank a hundred times more than 630,000,000,000 joules, look at the "calcs" again lol.

Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

See my point ?? Calcs are ridiculous when it comes to feats of powerhouses.

#56 Edited by incursion2 (1928 posts) - -

#57 Posted by wbr17 (3516 posts) - -

more MCU Kurse wank

#58 Posted by Erik_Soong (1560 posts) - -

@apex_pretador: What type of stone did you use for your density calculations? I ask because you almost certainly used an Earth stone to make your estimations, as the scene depicted took place on Svartalfheim.

#59 Posted by iknowwhoyouare (1631 posts) - -

Doomsday > Superman > Kurse

#60 Posted by Ashrym (2879 posts) - -

Volume of an ellipsoid is 4/3*pi*abc where abc represents each of the 3 radii.

That's 34.83 cubic meters per the scale provided, or roughly 1230 cubic feat. The average weight of rock per cubic foot is 175 pounds for 215250 pounds or 107.625 tons. Getting back to not being perfectly round etc it's about 100 tons and not 549 tonnes (which is actually 605 tons).

#61 Edited by ScathanApprover (1438 posts) - -

500 tons or so fast balled at 230km per hour shattered on Thor and injured him enough for a good stun, still conscious and awake, a bit cut up but fully recovered moments later.

100 tons lobbed slowly at Superman by Nam Ek in Man of Steel completely obliterated Superman to the point of complete immobility and a total body stun for quite some time, Kal didn't get up and out of that for a while. This fits properly into the idea that a smaller boulder smashed on his back was enough to completely KO him when Doomsday did it.

Most of the nuke was absorbed by Doomsday, Superman's clothing is stronger than he is and took the force of it off most of his body, the parts of his body that were exposed completely zombified and flaked off. All this proves is that he is very durable to heat and concussive shock waves, but immensely suspect to physical impact of solid objects. The actual flight speed impact physically of the nuke would have done more damage to Superman if it hit him based on how things are shown in MoS and BvS.

#62 Posted by GreatSpiderBat (90 posts) - -

#63 Posted by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (3818 posts) - -

lolballing. Even if we take the boulder as 100 tons we get a result of 110 000 tons for kurse. 30000 tons is lowballing ? Lol. 15000 is being generous. Uss nihmitz is 100 Kt. And 44m/s acceleration for the ship is waaayy to much.

#64 Edited by APEX_pretador (20276 posts) - -

@thor_parker82: Can we keep this on topic please and not bring in comic characters?

@apex_pretador: What type of stone did you use for your density calculations? I ask because you almost certainly used an Earth stone to make your estimations, as the scene depicted took place on Svartalfheim.

There is no way to tell how dense is the stone from another planet, but it is likely to be denser than earth rock rather than opposite, if the average members of each race (elves vs humans) are any indication.

@ashrym said:

Volume of an ellipsoid is 4/3*pi*abc where abc represents each of the 3 radii.

That's 34.83 cubic meters per the scale provided, or roughly 1230 cubic feat. The average weight of rock per cubic foot is 175 pounds for 215250 pounds or 107.625 tons. Getting back to not being perfectly round etc it's about 100 tons and not 549 tonnes (which is actually 605 tons).

Infact it is bigger than elipsoid of these dimensions would be, and even an ellipsoid of these dimensions would weight over 400+ tons.

#65 Posted by hulkuberstomp (1791 posts) - -

Can u do some calcs for Legendary Godzilla's strength?And if u can,for Leatherback Kaiju(His feat when he threw the Jaeger on several km)

Of course if u are not busy :)

#66 Posted by APEX_pretador (20276 posts) - -

Can u do some calcs for Legendary Godzilla's strength?And if u can,for Leatherback Kaiju(His feat when he threw the Jaeger on several km)

Of course if u are not busy :)

i'm sorry but I can't.

1. I'm busy.
2. I don't even know about these characters,
#67 Posted by hulkuberstomp (1791 posts) - -

Still thanks for this boulder feat calculations))

#68 Edited by MonsterStomp (36762 posts) - -

b) he was deliberately being slow with the ship as to not crack the ice)

If he was deliberately walking slow, it would be due to the sailors sitting atop of the ship. The ice was cracking regardless.

#69 Posted by DammeFavour (8336 posts) - -

i think i remember them throwing u out of vsbattles because u make so many assumptions nd bogus calculations without proof

#70 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - -

I don´t know if I have to laugh or be sad, this calculations for Superman are ridiculous, this is how they look.

Pre-52 Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

Right, because Superman has never been knocked out by less than 630,000,000,000 joules.

I smell some salt.

#71 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - -

@petey_is_spidey said:

b) he was deliberately being slow with the ship as to not crack the ice)

If he was deliberately walking slow, it would be due to the sailors sitting atop of the ship. The ice was cracking regardless.

But he struggled even though his face is cool and he had no issues pulling it! Because screw logic and the settings of that feat!

#72 Edited by ScathanApprover (1438 posts) - -

If those are people up there, that boat is 10x smaller than I thought and it's more like a glorified fishing yacht. For reference and if OP's math is legit, a battleship weights 64,000 tons and that ship he is dragging isn't close to a battleship in size. If he said Kurse can lift up 100,000 tons then Superman is nowhere near his power. There is no reason he couldn't lift that ship up, or break off a large piece of it and carry the others in it to safety. He couldn't do it, so he had to drag it.

Also the scene made no sense, his heat vision could have cut the ice in front of the boat and they could have floated to safety with him at the lead, instead his moronic self thought hey, maybe I can drag the boat and destroy it even more? Oh, I'm so awesome, people will think this is a great idea. Even if it had a busted hull, he could have laser eyed the ice to melt a path, then swam under the boat and held it above the water to float to safety. BUT NOOOOO, DRAG IT!

#73 Posted by Erik_Soong (1560 posts) - -

Sorry for the phone reply but what evidence are you using to make that assumption? If anything, you should be using a range of stones, therefore protecting yourself from questions of personal bias with a reasonable margin of error.

#74 Posted by APEX_pretador (20276 posts) - -

Sorry for the phone reply but what evidence are you using to make that assumption? If anything, you should be using a range of stones, therefore protecting yourself from questions of personal bias with a reasonable margin of error.

most rocks weight 2.7 to 3.2 ton/m^3 (density).

I used 3 for simplicity and since it is in the middle.

#75 Posted by Ashrym (2879 posts) - -

Infact it is bigger than elipsoid of these dimensions would be, and even an ellipsoid of these dimensions would weight over 400+ tons.

It looked to me like you were giving it more volume than it actually had. ~415 tons giving benefit of the doubt on dimensions I can believe. It looks more like it's football shaped, or maybe a fish, than anything with a sandy like substance pouring out of it to question the density while it's full of cracks and crevasses that we can see while Khurse lifts it. It looks to me like you are over-estimating volume here while we look at an average density for simplicity that the image doesn't necessarily match. I'd call it 415 ton at most as a high end estimate.

When I scale it to Khurse's size right before he throws it I get smaller dimensions than you stated as well, tbh. Especially when we look at the bend Khurse's knees when more of the boulder is also on the screen to avoid that hump you projected.

It's clearly not the original calculation or nearly a right cylinder. I expect if I scaled it out and found comparable crumbly material 400 tons is still very far fetched.

#76 Posted by APEX_pretador (20276 posts) - -

What did you take as kurse's size? (Height?)

Thor is supposed to be 2m tall = Iron man (in both comics & MCU), and kurse is around 6-7 inches taller in both comics & MCU, putting kurse around 2.15m to 2.18m.

I also took into account kurse bending his knees, and also there is some part of the rock off screen.

Yo're right it is not a cylinder that's why I took ~= 87% volume into account, maybe it is still a slight overestimation, with upto 10% error.

#77 Edited by Erik_Soong (1560 posts) - -

That sounds reasonable for a general post where little effort is put into it but if you want to bring actual science into it (and you clearly do), you should be thorough, using a range of our lightest stone and our heaviest. You should also add in your discussion that you acknowledge that this took place in another dimension, and that the stone used may be heavier or lighter than any Earth stone.

Personally, I don't have a problem with your math, but your methods.

#78 Posted by DammeFavour (8336 posts) - -

@erik_soong: i dont think the dimension matters because jane wasn't uncomfortable or anything nd she is human nd the rocks in svartalfeim seem to weather a lot as seen from the look of the landscape nd the boulder. it seemed to be porous

#79 Posted by APEX_pretador (20276 posts) - -

Fair enough, I edited the OP to make the things you two pointed out clear.

#80 Posted by Erik_Soong (1560 posts) - -

Thank you! I will also say thank you for putting the time into giving us a good idea of just how strong these character are. It's always great to see people applying their knowledge in useful ways (relative to comics, anyway).

#81 Posted by Erik_Soong (1560 posts) - -

I think you meant to tag someone else.

#82 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11559 posts) - -

lolballing. Even if we take the boulder as 100 tons we get a result of 110 000 tons for kurse. 30000 tons is lowballing ? Lol. 15000 is being generous. Uss nihmitz is 100 Kt. And 44m/s acceleration for the ship is waaayy to much.

Lol, no. If we assume that the boulder is 100 tons, and we highball the acceleration at 64.8 m/s/s, that's only a force of 661 tons, a FAR cry from 110,000 tons.

Secondly:

Now, the reason I said 30,000 is a lowball estimate is because these ships, depending on their size, can carry anywhere from 5000 tons to 5,000 tons of cargo. Now, unless the ship was out in the arctic empty, it AT LEAST weighs 30,000 tons, and that's IGNORING the frozen ice that may have gotten inside, the ice that he's dragging it through, and the fact that the ship may in fact be longer than this one.

In fact, look how much smaller that second mast is in the background. It's a substantial distance from the first.

Lastly, I meant 44 inches/second, not meters. My bad. However, I used the right calculations, so my result is correct.

#83 Posted by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (3818 posts) - -

no my dude. Its the wrong formula. W= F.D. 64.8^2 x 300 000/2 = 630 Mega Joules. Kurse moved his arms 20ish cm so D is 0.2. 630/0.2 = 3.15 Giga Newtons or 321000 tons. Also the 25 000 ton one looks bigger than the one in bvs. Unless you are blinded by your wanker-goggles you can see its barely large than the one that is 17 Kt. I'll try to calc supes strength. Ill post it in the morning if i do

#84 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11559 posts) - -

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2 said:

no my dude. Its the wrong formula. W= F.D. 64.8^2 x 300 000/2 = 630 Mega Joules. Kurse moved his arms 20ish cm so D is 0.2. 630/0.2 = 3.15 Giga Newtons or 321000 tons. Also the 25 000 ton one looks bigger than the one in bvs. Unless you are blinded by your wanker-goggles you can see its barely large than the one that is 17 Kt. I'll try to calc supes strength. Ill post it in the morning if i do

What? No.

We are trying to find the force needed to accelerate a 100 ton rock to 64.8 m/s^2 (force = mass x acceleration), which is 1321552.5907775 lbs, or 661 tons of force. Now, to find the work done, you just multiply that by the distance (I didn't do this previously, but thanks for reminding me). At a distance of 20 cm, he only did about 1175711.76 joules of work, which again, is NOT at all impressive. This is really basicphysics and math. I don't know where in the hell you got that number from, but it's blatantly incorrect. I'm not twisting anything.

Like I said, the 25,000 ship is about the same width, but the BvS ship is CLEARLY longer (the second mast is quite some distance behind the first, as indicated by it's smaller size). However, it AT LEAST weighs 25,000 tons EMPTY. We have to tack on another 5,000-7,000 tons of cargo weight, along with the hundreds and potentially thousands of tons of water and ice that got into the ship.

#85 Edited by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (3818 posts) - -

64.8 m/s is not the rocks acceleration it is its speed after kurse threw it. To find the acceleration while Kurse throw it you need to find the distance. V(first) = 0 V(last) = 64.8

For constant acceleration distance(using constant force to get the lowest end possible) = V(first+V(last)/2 .time. Kurse' hands moved 20 cm or 0.2 meters. 0.2 = 32.4 x Time. Time = 0.00609 seconds. Acceleration 10640 m/s so it results in 320 000 tons. Exact result from what we get by using other formulas. So it was slow mo about(4-6times) while kurse threw it unless he is a reality warper or somehow defied physics completely.

#86 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16116 posts) - -

@thor_parker82 said:

I don´t know if I have to laugh or be sad, this calculations for Superman are ridiculous, this is how they look.

Pre-52 Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

Right, because Superman has never been knocked out by less than 630,000,000,000 joules.

I smell some salt.

I smell some fanboy

#87 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11559 posts) - -

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: *Sigh* Acceleration is distance/seconds/seconds. As shown by the OP, the distance traveled was 129.6 meters in two seconds. As soon as an object begins to loose it's acceleration, or begins to deaccelerate, it begins it's decent. As proven by the OP, the boulder began to deaccelerate at about 64.8 meters, after about a second. It's top speed was 64.8 meters. As previously said, acceleration is d/s/s. 64.8 meters/1 second/1 second = 64.8 m/s^2. It's THAT easy. There's nothing to it.

If the ball TRULY initially accelerated at 1,064 m/s^2, than two things would have happened. For one, it would have broken the sound barrier because it would have been accelerating over 3 times the speed of sound, and for two it would have reached Thor damn near instantly at such break neck speeds, seeing as Thor was no more than 150 m away from Kurse. It is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for that to be the acceleration of the rock. There is absolutely NO chance that is possible. Zilch. Zero. The movie disproves what you're saying, physics disprove what you're saying, logic disproves what you're saying.

Now, even if we assume that you're erroneously false calculations are true, that's still only a force of 11,000 tons, a far cry from what Superman was doing. So even at his BEST, Kurse is still vastly weaker than Superman.

#89 Posted by MonsterStomp (36762 posts) - -

100 tons lobbed slowly at Superman by Nam Ek in Man of Steel completely obliterated Superman to the point of complete immobility and a total body stun for quite some time, Kal didn't get up and out of that for a while.

Superman was hit with 206,772 tons of force when Nam-Ek tossed that train engine at Superman. Assuming the train engine was 100 tons and the speed was roughly 50mph.

#90 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11559 posts) - -

@scathanapprover said:

100 tons lobbed slowly at Superman by Nam Ek in Man of Steel completely obliterated Superman to the point of complete immobility and a total body stun for quite some time, Kal didn't get up and out of that for a while.

Superman was hit with 206,772 tons of force when Nam-Ek tossed that train engine at Superman. Assuming the train engine was 100 tons and the speed was roughly 50mph.

Multiply that by 2, seeing as those engines are actually 200 tons.

#91 Edited by MonsterStomp (36762 posts) - -

@petey_is_spidey: I quoted someone who calculated the least possible outcome. 206k tons of force is still mighty impressive. Not only that, but Superman braced himself to stop its acceleration. Had he not been there, that engine would have ploughed straight through the building, and some, potentially killing more civilians.

#92 Posted by TheKinfing (11742 posts) - -

@full123 said:

@thor_parker82: Can you tell me those times?

I mean, most comics use scientific points to showcase a character's strength. Superman, and in an extension, DC Comics, have been known to do this.

Yeah, sure,

and my bad, I misinterpreted the calculations,Superman can effortlessly tank a hundred times more than 630,000,000,000 joules, look at the "calcs" again lol.

Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

See my point ?? Calcs are ridiculous when it comes to feats of powerhouses.

What are you even talking about?

#93 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - -

So many salty people in this thread, same old suspects

#94 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16116 posts) - -

So many salty people in this thread, same old suspects

Lol so true

#95 Posted by ryubh (519 posts) - -

@full123 said:

@thor_parker82: Can you tell me those times?

I mean, most comics use scientific points to showcase a character's strength. Superman, and in an extension, DC Comics, have been known to do this.

Yeah, sure,

and my bad, I misinterpreted the calculations,Superman can effortlessly tank a hundred times more than 630,000,000,000 joules, look at the "calcs" again lol.

Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

See my point ?? Calcs are ridiculous when it comes to feats of powerhouses.

Those images are terrible examples of out of context scenes.

1) The first guy is Atlas, the God who carried the earth on his shouldersand is powerful as Superman, Atlas strength comes from a magical source, The U.S army blocked the sun and Superman ends up defeating him anyways.

2) Superman awakes in the next panel

3) Shazam is nearly powerful as Superman, His powers are magical and come from a powerful wizard, it was a sucker punch.

#96 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16116 posts) - -

@ryubh said:
@thor_parker82 said:
@full123 said:

@thor_parker82: Can you tell me those times?

I mean, most comics use scientific points to showcase a character's strength. Superman, and in an extension, DC Comics, have been known to do this.

Yeah, sure,

and my bad, I misinterpreted the calculations,Superman can effortlessly tank a hundred times more than 630,000,000,000 joules, look at the "calcs" again lol.

Superman should be able to tank a red sun. The total energy output of our yellow sun per second is somewhere around 3.86×10^26 (386,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) Joules per second.

The total energy output from the atom bomb that hit Hiroshima was 6.3×10^13 (630,000,000,000) Joules.

The total energy output from the "Tsar Bomba" (the largest atomic bomb ever constructed at 50Megatons) was 2.1×10^17 (210,000,000,000,000,000) Joules.

So the total energy output of the sun in one second could be equal to 6,126,984,126,984 Little Boys or 1,838,095,238 Tsar Bombas. A red sun should be even more powerful. I don't think Thor would be able to dish out a hit more powerful than that, Superman, if focused should be able to tank all of Thor's hits. I give the win in this little contest to Kal-El

See my point ?? Calcs are ridiculous when it comes to feats of powerhouses.

Those images are terrible examples of out of context scenes.

1) The first guy is Atlas, the God who carried the earth on his shouldersand is powerful as Superman, Atlas strength comes from a magical source, The U.S army blocked the sun and Superman ends up defeating him anyways.

2) Superman awakes in the next panel

3) Shazam is nearly powerful as Superman, His powers are magical and come from a powerful wizard, it was a sucker punch.

You don´t get it, they are still not exerting the amiunt of joules it was calculated that it was needed to knock out Superman, and you´re missing my whole point, which is not to rely entirely on science and calculation on a fictional universe.

#97 Posted by Farkam (12025 posts) - -

#98 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - -

@thor_parker82: I didn't really take that caluclation seriously because it doesn't add up to Superman's other feats, but hey, if it makes you feel better. Regardless

So insecure.

#99 Posted by Rag_man (1378 posts) - -

Hmm, very Interesting stuff.

Do the Fant4stic Four Thing now. Based off of these boulder and durability feats I think he could possibly take Kurse. https://youtu.be/XFrqcMMff9w?t=45

#100 Edited by sleeping_and_eating (341 posts) - -

@heatforce

@petey_is_spidey

@monsterstomp

@ashrym

@DammeFavour

I'm reposting this....

This is a better calc I'm posting.

The boulder Kurse threw was at most 100 tons. The user Gojirason has a very good calc in the link posted. His calcs are on pages 1 and 2 of the link.