Marvel's TOAA isn't an omnipotent being. Retcon or not?

It's basically like the creator of a video game. If someone hacks the entire video game servers and reshapes it into something entirely different, it would be something above the creator's domain, and they have no idea how it works. Omniscience is completely limitless until someone or something finds a loophole and creates something beyond knowledge or understanding, hence they were never Omniscience. However, they can eventually understand and grasp what's going on, and fix it. Also, it was pretty much confirmed that The One Above All from Infinity Conflict and The One Above All From the Spider-Man and Fantastic Four comics are two different beings entirely, so this actually is not The One Above All we know that we are seeing.

true omnipotents can't fail

@sazzmi: Above-All-Others, not The-One-Above-All... Remember this once for all time...

Toaa The one above all

Oaa One above all

aao above all others

Sorry for the tag, but when was the underline basically confirmed?

yes under jim starlin

TOAA is omnipotent unless the story requires him not to be, this is the case here.

Considering that Starlin and Marvel have now parted ways, it's about 90% likely that this'll be retconned.

the old toaa was omnipotent but not by much

Is this story canon or not

Like it or not

This will forever be a blemish

TOAA ain't omnipotent no more

Deal with it

By the way, I just wanted to say, for anybody who thinks that truly omnipotent characters can't exist...I don't think you're right. I don't have too much knowledge on the God in Christianity or Islam, but I do know that in a well-known prayer to Hindu Gods, all of them are said to be Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. There are stories written on those Gods too, like Siva, Ganesha, Parvati, Brahma, Vishnu, Indra, Murugan, Durga, Kali etc. They can never be defeated...Siva is the destroyer, Vishnu is the preserver and Brahma is the creator...Indra is the King of Devas...nothing tops the Gods in Hindu lore

Btw, Living Tribunal has 3 heads which I think might be inspired by Brahma's 4 heads

Now that we know that Starlin basically wrote that Thanos story out of spite (because he was leaving and he'd also accuse fellow writers of stealing his ideas on his way out) it does make more sense tbh

TOAA OMNIPOTENT DEBUNK

I see so many people still claiming that the One-Above-All is still omnipotent, claiming that Thanos only defeated an “avatar of his”. I am actually confused why people think this way. I actually have proof to suggest otherwise.

The Misinterpretation of Omnipotence

People seem to think that an omnipotent being is a character that is simply at the pinnacle of a cosmic food chain, but that is not the case. Omnipotence is the state of absolutism; the very act of action. Omnipotence is just an active force, not an ability. An omnipotent character has no limits because they transcend the concept of limitations.

Subverting this concept creates many problems. For example, if one were to say “well I can name about ten Omnipotent characters, and they are almighty in their verse. Therefore, Omnipotence is the state of absolute power within a cosmology.” But the problem with that is within the narrative of comic books, they twist Omnipotence to the point of redundancy. For example, The Beyonder.

They describe the Beyonder as being “omnipotent” various times throughout his pre-retcon run. He could do basically anything he wanted. But he wasn’t almighty, as there were some that were comparable in power to him. Examples being Molecule Man. If he were truly omnipotent, he wouldn’t have trouble fighting Molecule Man like he did, yet some brazenly state that he is an “omnipotent” being only second to the One-Above-All.

More examples include The Living Tribunal and Odin, but you get the point. Omnipotence in Marvel could mean anything from being a somewhat impressive reality warper to just kind of impressive nigh-omnipotence.

The Nature of The One-Above-All

In Marvel, The One Above All is an immensely enigmatic being. I can’t find or name anything that actually reveals anything about his nature. So the best thing to do is look at his “accomplishments”. The best things that he has “done” in the entire continuity was preform an “omae wa mou shindeiru” in front of Peter Parker.

That it. No actually impressive things, just do something that most supreme deities that aren’t omnipotent do in their spare time and flash Peter Parker. And this is consistent in all of his appearances. He doesn’t do most of the heavy lifting like other characters do, and I’m supposed to believe that he is omnipotent now? Yes, I know that he is the superior to The Living Tribunal, but The Living Tribunal himself suffers from inconsistencies from time to time.

The Infamous Infinity Ending

Thanos: Infinity Ending is Jim Starlin’s last production at Marvel. It features Thanos (obviously) as his future self becomes almighty and begins his conquest over the Marvel Multiverse. Here, it is shown that The One-Above-All’s omnipotence is just like everybody else “omnipotence” when he cannot stop Thanos while he is holding the Astral Regulator. Thanos then processed to make the most deus ex machina play and absorb everybody, including The One-Above-All. Now, under normal circumstances, that would debunk the notion of The One-Above-All’s “divinity”, but that hasn’t stopped various people from “debunking” the comic.

And it is honestly there are some of the most hilarious, pathetic and incomprehensible attempts to do so.

That was a “fake” One-Above-All

This isn’t true for many reasons. One, The One-Above-All in the series in implicitly stated to be the true One-Above-All. The name “Above-All-Others” may prove that they are separate but that is not the case, as in a recent storyline that Above-All-Others and the One-Above-All are confirmed to be the same.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/X9LGfaqeB8Q76wzIsdPyHzrF3Fv8DjXYCG_9iSkBI_sUfHN6Sxkg-HLKGubKY_7eOQUahq4yQTfct7odUmiKQJjxjxA2Taw5GCL66xbGQWOJSVlI-0bNjCYeD__1vo6IAC1dAYs-hg=s1600

Nyx is one of the oldest characters in the Marvel Omniverse, so she knows what she’s talking about. And besides, there can’t be two Omnipotent beings in a cosmology, otherwise they would be the same being.

Sub note here: The Living Tribunal was present before the supposed “Above-All-Others”. The Living Tribunal is omniscient, so he would know whether if he was talking to The One-Above-All’s avatar. And yet he said that they thought him that The One-Above-All was infallible.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/7/7f/Omnipotent-In-Well-Functioning-System.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/185?cb=20200512175716

That would be conclusive proof that it was The One-Above-All that fell, not this “Above-All-Others”.

There are more pieces of “evidence” that The One-Above-All is not the Above-All-Others, but the people making the claims just rant about nonsense. Omniversal Battlefield’s explanation is that the “real” One-Above-All is beyond everything, including Oblivion and didn’t appear physically, while the Above-All-Others is only above time & space. I don’t feel like I need to say anything about this, but I will. Only being beyond time & space is proof, but it doesn’t matter. Oblivion is beyond dimensional space entirely, so that isn’t any comprehensive proof. Being beyond time & space automatically makes you beyond the concept of nonexistence, anyway.

I hope that people just let their common sense take over and realize that they are just spreading misinformation just because they cannot stand their favorite character losing.

If you read the comic thanos says to overcome the concept of omnipotence that idiocy

@natlekal04: Or you are overthinking things and not using your common sense about the ramifications of using an absolutely omnipotent being a story.

The statements don’t just say toaa is above Living Tribunal. It says he is the highest pinnacle of the cosmics. Living Tribunal is often used because of his position in the hierarchy. But the comparisons are made clear that Toaa is where the power chain stops.

Jim Starlin’s story is literally the only story that refutes this fact and there is plenty of evidence indicating that this is not the norm. Writer’s reputability is lacking here, yet even then, Starlin in the comic has the Living Tribunal shocked that the One Above All could even be surpassed in any capacity. Common sense would indicate to you just how powerful their position is relative to everyone else in the cosmos.

Clearly this is canon since Starlin wrote it while working for Marvel. Although, a new writer can recton this away and make TOAA omnipotent again. It just hilarious that the TOAA got beyonder. TOAA was omnipotent and de powered to not omnipotent. You can't have bigger down grade than that.

@lordragoon: he is just low multiversal now look he even failed to fix a multiverse lmao

Many people saying TOAA>PRESENCE but they don't realize that TOAA=PRESENCE, ENIGMA=WRITER there will always be a stronger force. If Marvel or DC added a new strongest character then in a few years they will add another for sure.

don't get me started on the mother of horrors from the new hulk run

Now that we also know about Starlin's issues with them in detail it especially makes sense. The story is barely canon anyway.

Most people criticize Starlin's writings, but the truth is he made significant contributions to the concept of the One Above All's omnipotence within the Marvel narrative and when examined critically, nothing in Starlin seriously tarnished TOAA's omnipotence. Starlin's storyline where the One Above All was "defeated" by Thanos could have been part of a larger plot of One Above All desiring to die by his own will using Thanos as a machination just like pre-retcon Beyonder did, we know TOAA "chose" Thanos to give him a new reality he never experienced before meaning the victory of Thanos is just a manifest of OAA's desire for a change or even to experience death, reflecting his omnipotence and omniscience-induced boredom, a theme shared with The Presence who also grew dissatisfied with his omnipotence and omniscience like TOAA.

The undermining of the One Above All's omnipotence legitimacy is mostly Al Ewing and co. they who have introduced hints and suggestions of limitations or challenges to the One Above All's power, such as OAA questioning his own omnipotence on panel, his scope seemingly limited to the House of Ideas, The Hulk issue 3 claiming Brother Deep was a "challenge" to OAA, and Mother of Horrors existing beyond his omniscience, etc. and Al Ewing does not seem to intend to stop.

Regrettably, the One Above All is no longer depicted as omnipotent in current Marvel comics, as those responsible for determining the canon appear to have chosen not to portray him as such, and as One Above All is the seat of power and knowledge of all of Marvel's gods, so too did the quality of the Marvel Gods diminish.