Mainstream Comics Batman (With prep)'s destructive potential?

Batman is fully capable of creating explosives/means to destroy the entire planet based on previous experience with such weapons, ability to access the materials required to create such a weapon, and knowing when and where to use it. Not to mention he could most likely keep his plans under wraps until it's too late for any hero to stop him.

I want to see if this thread turns into a Wenjun Chew level thread

No one?

If we take the Batman Who Laughs as an indication he could become a multiversal threat. I can elaborate if this causes confusion or outrage

What are Batman Who Laughs' feats?

@germanx: Here’s a respect thread.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/87ufbe/respect_the_batman_who_laughs_dc_new_52/#ampf=undefined

The reasoning for my statement is that he has guide of the Multiverse (Multiversity) and knows how to destroy it. For instance his tampering in Metal is a large factor in why the Multiverse is falling apart in DC right now.

Your attempts at bait are getting worse by the day.

batman who laughs is batman of earth-22, not mainstream. by that account, owlman or batman of JL: crisis on two earths is multiversal as well

@kyrees: Batman Who Laughs is genetically identical to Bruce. Using him as basis for Batman’s destructive potential seems reasonable as there isn’t much differianting between BWL and Batman attempting to destroy as much as possible.

I would also argue that Batman could replicate Owlmans feats and become multiversal threat as well through prep.

These are probably closest examples of Batman’s total destructive potential since Bruce wouldn’t even think doing any of this in character.

EDIT: I’d like to add that my answer isn’t Batman busting anything but causing chain reaction that leads to the destruction of the Multiverse. If that matters at all

genetic similarities are only that; genetics. what they learned and how they apply what they learned are entirely different things and to use genetics as some kind of potential argument ignores each alternative batman's history and there are already significant different things they learned per universe.

besides OP is talking about the mainstream aka main continuity not alternate universe batman.

@kyrees: I think you missed my point. I’m just using alternate versions of Batman to approximate what he could become if given time.

Do you believe that there is something that either BWL or Owlman could do that Batman couldn’t replicate? Especially BWL given that they have similar histories up until BWL snaps and kills Joker.

EDIT: I’d also like to hear your answer. Just to see to where your thought process.

if given time, main continuity would branch a different version that is tempered by his current personality.

a version of owlman can control people's mind temporarily without using any equipment. there's also a drug enhanced version of owlman. BWL is a broken down bruce wayne by a more psychotic joker and mainstream batman has a stronger fortitude than that. i doubt batman could replicate half the psychotic tendencies BWL did with his inventions or machinations. (i seriously doubt batman would change a dangerous kryptonite into an even more sadistic one like what BWL did to a black kryptonite.)

my point in answering that is that i also account their personalities and batman's not the psychotic kind for that matter. i might assume he can do the same with owlman but the scenarios leading to that situation would have been too dire for batman and the justice league to deal accordingly in the first place.

I love how on comicvine users like to shut down other users by accusing the others of baiting, being alts, trolling, etc

This is pretty much the new internet equivalent of Godwin's Law. If you don't like Batman being a multiverse buster, just admit it.

Well, I guess the argument would be more of the Ultimate Nullifier argument.

Reed Richards and Johnny Storm, with the help of Uatu, got the Ultimate Nullifier. Can Batman do the same if Uatu was helping him? Arguably yes.

Reed Richards used the Ultimate Nullifier to force Galactus away. Can any regular human do the same action that Reed Richards did? Yes. Can Batman do anything a regular human can do? Yes.

Will Batman use the Ultimate Nullifier to threaten the universe and Galactus together? In-character, maybe not. Out-of-character? Yes.

A lot of CV arguments goes around removing the characterization context, thus you see in battles forum terms like "bloodlusted".

just to point it, use the UN argument sparingly especially within galactus because.

1.) depending on timeline, UN was proven to be dangerous to its wielder

2.) galactus took it from abraxas, a being more powerful than him, simply because UN is a part of galactus.

I can feel it, the prophecy of WenjunChew’s eventual return is becoming a reality..

@germanx: @kyrees: Kyrees I see where you are coming from. My argument is more like the UN one I suppose in that I believe that Batman could cause the Multiverse to collapse given enough time not he necessarily would. I’m ignoring characterization aspect because Batman would go as far to kill a person let alone destroy a universe. If this were a battle instead of discussion how much Batman could destroy if he wanted to then I’d have to take Bruce’s character into account.

moon level at best

Let's say the universe can be destroyed by exploiting a particular weakness...

Let's say this weakness is exploited using human action...

This means someone like Batman can destroy the universe with that action.

This means Batman's destructive potential is universe-level.

This isn't just Ultimate Nullifier specific.

two arguments:

1. only version that have actually shown to be capable of doing it are the ones given the pass, specifically that owlman or BWL. let's not attribute other alternate to their main ones for assuming too much than what their writers put. that's why main batman would only be planet level at max given brother eye and justice buster.

2. exploiting a weakness isn't really putting you on that level given you are only focusing on a fracture point, not on the target as a whole. did said character actually possess actual power to do that ? no. owlman might have destroyed the multiverse but it's a domino effect, not the whole abrupt thing.

A man who uses a gun to kill someone makes him a murderer.

Batman who uses a bomb to blow up the universe makes him a universe-buster.

Neither of these two necessarily need to know how to build their weapon to be considered a murderer/universe buster.

@germanx:

"A man who uses a gun to kill someone makes him a murderer.

Batman who uses a bomb to blow up the universe makes him a universe-buster."

WenjunChew used to make similar arguments...

Yes. That was directly lifted because it makes sense. The idea was that neither of these two necessarily need to know how to build their weapon to be considered a murderer/universe buster.

now you are giving me a good run.

at base level, that sounds logical however what you are asking in your OP is to factor in character history, personality and alternates as cross reference. with that, the latter becomes illogical given how that character is assumed on a scale that is far greater than any acceptable safe limits of assumption he has. acceptable safe limits are generally still within grasp of their history and personality and it makes sense batman would be within planetary level given how vast brother eye was and how it was used accordingly against batman and his friends by ra's al ghul and maxwell lord. brother eye getting sentience and becoming a tool for a multiversal reformation was not batman's feat and can only be attributed to alexander luthor jr, a significantly more powerful and more intelligent son of luthor of another earth.

i am also going to point out the inherrent fault of this kind of arguments; it rests on each arguer to set a limit of which everyone of us will agree on and that's not going to happen given each of us has their own agenda in this discussion. beside, the point of your rule "do not fabricate" pretty much sets batman within planetary scale since it was owlman who created that bomb. owlman has had a far more impressive tech than batman ever did.

PS. going the general route isn't going to work because people here are focused on incarnations of each character. only wenjun sees the sense in that given he gives too much general answers and is evasive to what each character has done and potential to it.

Everything, including every other fictional multiverse.

Omniversal.

What I was saying in the OP: "Do not focus on using only feats, exercise your creativity by thinking out of the box, extrapolate (BUT NOT fabricate) the logical conclusion of his feats --> E.g.: If Batman can use bombs to blow up a heavy door, he should be able to get his hands on a stronger bomb to blow up a building too."

Feats do depend on characterization. On the other hand, capability do NOT depend on characterization. This thread is about capability - Capability is about speculation of what the character can do, it is different from battles forum which nowadays emphasizes on actual feats which I do not always agree with.

For me I have held a rifle and fired rounds using a rifle. My feats are destroying some dummy targets with an accuracy of 25%. My current feats don't give me the courage to murder somebody in broad daylight in front of a watching audience.

This is different if we are talking about capability. With a rifle, my capability is the ability to murder somebody in broad daylight in front of a watching audience. I have the hands, the knowledge and the tool to do so.

i am using my creativity that's why i maxed him at planet level given how brother eye was able to monitor metahumans all over the world. heck, that monitoring proved dangerous when maxwell lord used the same program to nearly wipe them all out with OMACs, nanotech that can apparently copy any powers. that's also a counter feat given the same technology had a weakness in a form of its hacking vulnerability.

his capability is at that level for me given it took him years to build brother eye though he didn't put enough safeguards for it to be unhackable. how can i give him anything higher when two people proved to be capable of hacking it and turning it against him ?

what you are arguing is the removal of personality in a fight and you cannot remove personality to this discussion since said personality is what drove them to make those inventions and potential behind it that we are discussing accordingly. to remove them allows everyone to draw their own conclusion without any practical basis and justify it accordingly. that's essentially a "pissing contest" and there's no end to that kind of discussion

You are using Brother Eye's feats to define and thus limit Batman's capabilities.

As Christian Bale's Batman once said: "Batman has no limits".

While it is true that characterization is a contributing factor to a character's capability which leads to feats, characterization holds no more relevance once you factor in the notion that a character can make use of something which he himself is not capable of creating. E.g.: Batman has no feats of building his own Infinity Gauntlet that can affect the entire universe, but it doesn't mean he can't steal it.

facts.

because that's the most practical thing to base your argument on given it is canon material. anything significantly beyond that is merely a fan fiction at this point and no one person would agree on one fan fiction.

any character can use anything you can dream of with your creativity and questionable story telling aka fan fiction. why are you so intent on threading fan fiction levels of argument when your own OP pretty much sets it on what he has done and relative levels ? are you going to ignore your fabricate part ?

About Multiversal.

I can’t think of a way where Batman can overcome Living Tribunal, this probably would be the first time where he would rely on allies. Perhaps Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman can lend a hand here.

Batman with the right equipment. In fact, he can range from a building buster to as far as a multiverse buster depending on what prep he had made.

Just because Thanos can beat nigh-omnis with his prep doesn’t mean he can beat Batman with prep. ABC logic doesn’t work that way. There’s no feat that shows that Thanos can beat an ordinary human via wits. An ordinary human doesn’t necessary mean he’s at a huge disadvantage to a superhuman. It all depends on the scenario. Batman feats wise has shown he is better at manipulating scenarios to his advantage.

- Wenjun Chew

I don't know, let's ask @wenjunchew@wenjun_chew,@wenjun_chew_,@wenjun--chew_

Its not about fan fiction, its just as simple as answering "yes/no" to a question of "Can Batman perform a specific action that caused the destruction of a <insert noun>".

Yes, the OP emphasizes on both exercising creativity and sticking to what Batman can do.

What is fan fiction: Batman kicking Spectre and making him bleed under all normal conditions, Batman going super saiyan and destroying a planet <=== Batman has NEVER done any of these things before

What is NOT fan fiction (i.e.: something Batman can actually do): Batman stealing a reality-warping macguffin, Batman pressing a button that can end the universe. <=== THAT is what I was talking about.

umm, you wanted us to think and extrapolate, not answer it in a yes or no fashion. that's what your OP meant unless you actually put it in there that we answer that way

that's still fan fiction, specifically your fan fiction because that's what happened according to what a random fan assumes, not what the official writer put in panel. mind you batman kicked specter in panel with full on explanations and context (with a lot of us knowing when to use it accordingly). are we really pushing your fan fiction of batman blowing up universes up to what actually happened in panel and parameters within that ?

wenjun was far better than this.

I would say that, based on the amount of prep time he gets, Batman could range from anywhere between galactic level to outerversal (possibly even hyperversal) level in terms of sheer destructive potential.

Batman could destroy entire countries and potentially a planet with his resources and prep time. He could start wars, take out nations and crest cataclysmic events that effect people on a planetary scale. If he were to use deceives that are even greater than what he normally has, then he could possibly cause on a multiversal scale.

Omniverse level, duh

I was just trying to keep it simple in a yes/no way.

You're telling me its fan fiction when I merely claimed that "Batman is physically capable of pressing a button to a doomsday device" or that "Batman is capable of influencing reality warpers or steal doomsday devices"?

Those actions that I propose Batman can do are all well within Batman's feats.

I am not saying ridiculous things that Batman can think of a way to destroy a universe all by himself without help. I am only saying Batman can look for resources that allow him to do so.

keeping it simple is never going to happen to this forum where we argue to death on everything, much more when you don't specify it and give out multiple choices like a survey questionnaire.

it's practically fan fiction given all three hasn't really happened and each one of these scenarios can be "colorfully rendered| by any debator of any character you want to argue for.

i already outlined to you the best thing batman did and you can go within that or slightly above that but to go beyond that requires something that even he hasn't done in character. heck, he had a mobius chair and yet he only used it to know secrets of his past and certain people like antimonitor. i don't remember him building something of that worth with the help of a mobius chair.

Bolded reference: Actually, this claim is exactly what shows the difference between Batman and other characters.

This claim is equivalent to "given the same conditions, even Aunt May/Killer Croc is capable of doing the same action". This is pretty much a false equivalence fallacy. The difference is that Batman isn't Aunt May/Killer Croc. To meet the conditions specified to perform an action, there are other implied actions that is needed to be done to achieve these conditions, and Aunt May/Killer Croc just aren't capable enough.

For example, to come into contact with a doomsdsay device that can blow up the universe, it will most likely be guarded by some of the deadliest warriors in the universe. It is plausible to argue that Batman can plan against these warriors by evading them, poisoning them, or dance around the traps set around the doomsday device. Can Aunt May do the same? No.

focusing on the lesser characters that don't even know how to prep doesn't ignore the fact that with wishful storytelling, you can make any character win. so what if aunt may/croc can't do it, can midnighter/dr doom/reed richards not do it as well ? heck, i'm limiting myself to what they have actually done and yet here you are saying batman can "influence" reality warpers or steal a doomsday device from some location that is somehow lightly guarded because you said so, which he still hasn't done to date. quite a conundrum there.

@kyrees: to answer your question, yes, midnighter and doctor doom can accomplish what Batman can accomplish.

Batman is capable of anything humanly possible because he's Batman, a peak human. You are not going to argue that Batman never did something because its not within his morals to do so? Because I talked about capability not feats. I have never murdered anyone but it doesn't mean I don't have the capability to do so

the capability that you think he has is all your interpretation, a fan interpretation. fan interpretation is nothing higher than actual writer confirmation nor will it ever amount to anything significant to a character given you are not writing his story. the murder analogy is irrelevant because you are not the official writer or writers of batman whom they can officially decide what to do with him.

"humanly possible". yeah, that's an ancient argument for people who loopholed their way to elevate batman to bad meme levels.

@kyrees: so ultimately what you are saying is that Batman, a peak human, is utterly incapable of convincing a person to do something, is utterly incapable of stealing something, and worse of all is utterly incapable of pressing a button on a remote control?

Okay

now you go flip the table and assume he's an idiot.

seriously, he has enough feats to be put on a certain level, no need for your high end wishful thinking for him.

wenjun was far far better than this. really disappointing.

I am not arguing about whether he is of a certain level or not, I am arguing about what counts as his capability.

I never said that Batman can build a machine that can destroy the multiverse or re-create something close to the Infinity Gauntlet's capability. I am only saying that he can do human-like actions that lead him to accomplish a goal that those machines can do.

he already has shown capability by his writers and there's a lot of that. he doesn't need fan drawn capability which you keep on enforcing here

you are rerouting the argument. he hasn't done anything on that level that you are assuming he is whether through his actions or inventions.

We are going in circles about this. Just a few simple question and answers will suffice. Is Batman capable of stealing a doomsday device? Is Batman capable of figuring out which button to press? Is Batman capable of pressing a button on a doomsday device?