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#1 Posted by Jinsei (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi, this is something that a friend and I have been arguing for a while, he says that psychic powers are more useful and powerful than psychics, I say magic powers are stronger, so I want to see another points of views (please explain why)

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#2 Posted by OmegaDynasty (10500 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic has a wide variety from entering one's mind, transmuting, stopping time, etc. So magic FTW.

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#3 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

  In strict comic terms, magic should be stronger.  Characters like Kent Nelson and Classic Doctor Strange are cosmic level heroes, able to alter reality to with just a thought.  Zatanna has the ability to turn a person to dust with just a few words.  Most good magic users are cosmic levelled, while only a few psychics are at that level.  Jean Grey and House of M Scarlet Witch >.>

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#4 Posted by Jinsei (19 posts) - - Show Bio

haha ty for the help

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#5 Edited by Jinsei (19 posts) - - Show Bio

but if there's a battle between a magic cosmic level heroe against a psychic cosmic level heroe, who would win?

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#6 Posted by CosmicSpiral (5474 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jinsei said:
" but if there's a battle between a magic cosmic level heroe against a psychic cosmic level heroe, who would win? "
Depends on who is fighting. 
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#7 Posted by Jinsei (19 posts) - - Show Bio
@CosmicSpiral: well thats true, but i can't think in anyone right now haha
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#8 Posted by Son Of Storm (11470 posts) - - Show Bio
Cigam.
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#9 Posted by karrob (4305 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm said:
" Cigam. "
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#10 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a battle.

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#11 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic.

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#12 Posted by N7_Normandy (2504 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" Magic. "
of course magic is stronger; your comparing a very limited power to a very vast one
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#13 Posted by ckal (1116 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jinsei:  I would say magic. Doctor Strange before he lost much of his power was probably the top psychic in the Marvel Universe. His telepathy was described by Wong as magic, and not really telepathy. But if he can achieve this through magic (as well as top tier psychic resistance), magic surely trumps any form of psychic.
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#14 Posted by King Saturn (222965 posts) - - Show Bio
Magic for the win
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#15 Edited by Jinsei (19 posts) - - Show Bio
@ckal:  
Yes but isn't jean grey still being a psychic character with the phoenix force? 
That confused me...Can Dr Strange handle the psychic powers of jean grey with the phoenix force?
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#16 Posted by ckal (1116 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jinsei:  I'm honestly not sure on Jean Grey (Phoenix) psychic feats. But Dr. Strange has bested Moondragon with the soul gem (who is supposedly greater than Professor X in telepathy) in a telepathy duel.
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#17 Posted by Hazlenaut (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

When you are saying psychic you mean any kind of psychic power pyrokinisis, teleportation, healing anyone has list ready and explanation for each.     
Magic is more practical just enchant something with magic and any one can use it, unless it is the chosen one magic. I would prefer magic that is combined with technology, but then again you could do the same with psychic powers. Don’t they both can easily get mistaken by their opponents?    

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#18 Posted by tensor (8442 posts) - - Show Bio

 abracadabra

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#19 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic, but also psychic powers are very impressive 

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#20 Edited by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko: It's a hard question to answer.  There's much to consider:
 
  • How powerful is the magic being used?  (or the user.  For example is it Dr. Strange (former sorcerer supreme), or Pixie who only knows one spell)
  • How powerful is the psychic?  Charles Xavier, or Sage, or Blindfold?  How about Legion who's capable of rewriting reality?
I think it depends on the power level of the user and how resourceful they are with it...
 
You know, it WOULD be interesting to see Emma Frost become a sorcerer...
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#21 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: I think its in general terms. Magic users are commonly stronger than psychics and most of the magicians can warp reality and travel through time, while the only psychic that I can recall doing that is legion (and possibly x-man, he can step outside of time).
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#22 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:
@Timandm: I think its in general terms. Magic users are commonly stronger than psychics and most of the magicians can warp reality and travel through time, while the only psychic that I can recall doing that is legion (and possibly x-man, he can step outside of time).
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compile a list of magic users and psychics.  That might make them easier to compare.
Of course, there's still the question of what does it mean for one to be 'more powerful' than the other; in terms of what, exactly?  What they can accomplish?  or in combat?  For example, who in their right mind would disagree that Dr. Strange could accomplish more than Emma Frost.  However, in combat, could she simply stop him with a thought and erase his memories?  (I don't know if he has defenses against telepathy)  If she could, would that mean she's more powerful than him?  He can defeat demons, visit other dimensions, heal, alter probability, and so on...
 
So, what DOES it mean for one to be more powerful than the other?
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#23 Posted by Alexander_Sparrow (419 posts) - - Show Bio

depends on how much control one character has over that particular element

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#24 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: I know that it would be easier to compare with people instead of the power itself.  

Well, dr strange defeated moondragon WITH the mind gem in a mind battle, so I'm almost sure Emma would never stand a chance, at least not against classic dr strange.
 
I think that he uses the therm "more powerful" to express what they can accomplish, because in battle it can go either way, depending in the combatants, I mean, it would be unfair to make a battle between WPoTC and Zatanna, they're in totally different levels, nevertheless, not beacuse WPoTC'd think Zatanna out of existance means that psychics are always goint to win against magicians with that ease.
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#25 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:
@Timandm: I know that it would be easier to compare with people instead of the power itself.  Well, dr strange defeated moondragon WITH the mind gem in a mind battle, so I'm almost sure Emma would never stand a chance, at least not against classic dr strange. I think that he uses the therm "more powerful" to express what they can accomplish, because in battle it can go either way, depending in the combatants, I mean, it would be unfair to make a battle between WPoTC and Zatanna, they're in totally different levels, nevertheless, not beacuse WPoTC'd think Zatanna out of existance means that psychics are always goint to win against magicians with that ease.
Dude!  He had the MIND gem.  That basically makes him more powerful than any telepath in the universe.  If Moondragon stood up to him at all I think that would be a testament to how powerful SHE is...  Why did he have to resort to using the Mind gem?
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#26 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: lol I'm sorry, I didn't organize my ideas xD she had the mind gem, not him, and he won. Honestly I count that battle like PIS...
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#27 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alexander_Sparrow: I know, but the battle is apparently about the powers, not characters..
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#28 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:
@Timandm: lol I'm sorry, I didn't organize my ideas xD she had the mind gem, not him, and he won. Honestly I count that battle like PIS...
Ah.. LOL!  That makes a HUGE difference... Yeah, if she couldn't beat him even with the mind gem I think that tells us what we need to know...
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#29 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Honestly i never expected moondragon would loose that battle, but that shows how powerful dr strange is...
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#30 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:
@Timandm: Honestly i never expected moondragon would loose that battle, but that shows how powerful dr strange is...
Absolutely.  So, what do you think stops someone like Xavier, or Emma Frost from becoming a sorcerer?  Seems logical to me.  Assuming they CAN wield magic, wouldn't it make sense for them to learn?  Telepaths can learn almost any subject instantly, although there is no substitute for experience.  But I think of how all the X-Men can pilot a Black Bird or speak various languages because they use telepathy to learn.
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#31 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Well, I agree with that, telepaths may learn to use magic stealing the knowledge of a magician, but magic users can use telepathy via spells, in that case it would be a stalemate...
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#32 Posted by The_Warlord (1831 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic ftw

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#33 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@nekoneko said:
@Timandm: Well, I agree with that, telepaths may learn to use magic stealing the knowledge of a magician, but magic users can use telepathy via spells, in that case it would be a stalemate...
Absolutely... it wouldn't really be a matter of telepathy versus magic in that case, since they'd be using both.  I was just drifting off on a "what if" type of tangent...
I think, IF I were a telepath, I'd learn to use magic.  and IF I were a sorcerer, I'd learn telepathy spells...
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#34 Posted by crazy8504 (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Its a tricky subject IMO because Magic is one of those things that is not ever define well in allot of situation. You would think in a battle that a psychic would be immediately be able to shut off the magic wielders brain and everything is done the psychic wins. but some magic wielders have mental resistance, charms, and wards ect. to make a psychic ability useless or on level with each other to become a battle of the mind and or wills. however allot of psychic not all but allot evolve to have the ability to wield the ability to alter reality. This also the is same of the magic wield as well (at least the really strong ones). case in point the House of M story I think does a good example of psychic versus magic type situation. what I am saying is alot of time psychic and magic wields almost get equal footing when they become extremely powerful other time were its hard to say. Like Jean grey, Rachael summers and Cable or Scarlett witch, Dr, Strange

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#35 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@crazy8504: What psychics can alter reality without external help? Because rachel and jean has just done that with the phoenix force, I've never seen jean or rachel warping reality withouth the phoenix force. For now I just remember Legion...
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#36 Edited by crazy8504 (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder, I know Proteus in some universes has psychic abilities as well as a reality warping (namely in Ultimate universe) Sentry has vast psychic abilities and molecular manipulation so its only a matter of time before he can warp reality IMO. Franklin Richard and of course onslaught at full strength. I am sure Vulcan (Gabriel summer)  could have achieve that ability if he was a live and given time since he was an omega level mutant. of course I am leaving out the gods and celestial beings that exist in the marvel universe. Those are the ones I can think of on the top of my head, but I know there are some more I just need time to remember them.

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#37 Posted by Agent9149 (3627 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm said:
@nekoneko: I think it depends on the power level of the user and how resourceful they are with it...  You know, it WOULD be interesting to see Emma Frost become a sorcerer...
You know what that's not a bad idea, her being able to shoot magic blasts while in diamond form
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#38 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@agent9149 said:
@Timandm said:
@nekoneko: I think it depends on the power level of the user and how resourceful they are with it...  You know, it WOULD be interesting to see Emma Frost become a sorcerer...
You know what that's not a bad idea, her being able to shoot magic blasts while in diamond form
I hadn't considered that, but yes, that's excellent.  Especially since she can't use her telepathy in diamond form...  That would help balance out her loss in diamond form...  Who knows, perhaps the diamond form would help focus the magical energy...
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#39 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@crazy8504: well... I know they have reality warping powers, but those characters have their relity warping powers AND their psionics apart, what I wanted to say is what psychics have their warping reality ability as a result of their high level psychic powers... 
 
AlsoVulcan is not psychic, he is a high level energy manipulator, at least from what I've read about him (sorry if I'm wrong).
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#40 Posted by crazy8504 (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Nate grey and like you said legion. I don't know how you can say that the people I mention have there powers are separate from each other since most often or not they are overlapping each other and you don't now where one power starts the other ends. 

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#41 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@crazy8504: What I mean with separate is for example, onslaught, it has franklin's reality warping powers and nate's psychics, they are not connected since they are obtained from different sources.  
 
Yes, now I remember that in Onslaught series reality seems to warp around Nate for a moment. I'll search for it later.
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#42 Posted by karrob (4305 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaDynasty said:
Magic has a wide variety from entering one's mind, transmuting, stopping time, etc. So magic FTW.
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#43 Posted by nekoneko (94 posts) - - Show Bio
@karrob: that's exactly what I think...
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#44 Posted by Jimishim12 (1554 posts) - - Show Bio

Psychics can do everything Magic users can, even control magic themselves. I think being psychic gives you the power of manipulating essense from your mind which could be a processor of unlimited and onipotentent power surging through your body and your soul.

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#45 Posted by obsidian_raindrop1 (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@jimishim12: Magic users can curse people easy with out being caught and could alter reality hell the death note is magic and that could wipe out the entire x-men

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#46 Posted by Rijehu (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

Psychic would be the favorable choice for me any day. The issue at hand is that most of our understanding of magic comes from Comics and books. Most of the time, it is simply an energy or force (Divine, Arcane, Eldritch etc...) that is channeled by users who become the conduits of its power. This energy can come from the universe itself or other realms of existence. Either way, it is usually an external force being channeled internally by the user, who then projects in back externally to affect reality in any way they deem fit. This is why it's a powerful force. Magic users warp reality left and right because the very nature of magic itself is reality altering. However, what many don't understand is that Psionics, (when fully unleashed and capable) are just as capable of warping reality without the use of magic. This is because the mind is both the source of power, and the channel of which that power is executed. Of course this means that the power output depends on the strength of the mind, meaning weaker psionics won't come close to even basic magic users. However, the strongest minds can devastate the fabric of creation. The most purest form of RW is mentifery, this is being able to shape reality with a mere thought, in any way you see fit. The psychics are rare, but not unheard of, and can rival most magic users of top tier power, if not outright outdo them. Franklin Richards, Mad Jim Jaspers and Legion have this ability and can literally warp really on monstrous levels (universal at least). Just because this power is not called (Mental Reality warping) doesn't negate the fact that the mind is the place of power and the foundation of this ability. Because the mind of a Psionic can be trained and taught to perceive everything, it can warp accordingly as well. Psychowarping itself is an actual named ability in which reality is warped with physic powers, but this usually carries a a much darker and twisted connotation due to the grim nature of the power of used by disturbed individuals (which is has been). Many comics however, don't dive deep into the sheer untapped power of psionics because they focus on the fine detailing made possible by the power(subatomic manipulation for example) instead if the top tier capabilities it has. If given more attention to the actually ability, and not the characters who have them, you can see that psychics are just as powerful as any other force there is.

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#48 Posted by Helloman (29844 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither are powerful.

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#49 Posted by SithAssassinDarthMaul (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic gives you psychic powers. :D.

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#50 Edited by DiarrheaRegatta (4632 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean, as someone who has dabbled in both within Respect Threads, I can say that Magic users have the potential to be more powerful overall, but Psychic characters usually start off pretty strong and remain so as long as they don't get nerfed by PIS (Claremont limiting Phoenix Jean Grey so that she didn't just solo every villain, for instance) or character limitations placed by themselves (morals, self imposed barriers).

There's absolutely clear benefits to both, but I'd say Magic has a ton of versatility and can do things that the other side can't.