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#1 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

There have been many predictions of team fights to put down Kaido (Luffy and Law vs Kaido, Luffy and Kid vs Kaido, Luffy, Law and Kid vs Kaido, etc.). I completely understand, why people would think that. Kaido is a Yonko, has most likely never been defeated one-on-one and is said do be basically invulnerable. But that's exactly the reason, why I think that

Luffy will fight Kaido one-on-one

Kaido's status as (right now) the strongest single person in One Piece, his incredible durability and strength and his position as one of the Yonko will be a very important obstacle for Luffy to overcome. Luffy is aiming for the title of Pirate King. If he wins such major fights only in a team-effort, how can he aim for the top like that? The world thinks, Kaido cannot be taken down one-on-one, Luffy will do exactly that and show the world who he is and what he can do. After that fight Luffy and Blackbeard will be the top contenders for the throne of Pirate King (and of course Teach will be Luffy's final opponent before finding One Piece (not the final opponent of the series!)).

Now, how will this happen? People will probably argue that right now, Luffy is still quite far from being Yonko-level, and that's absolutely true. That's why I think the final battle between Luffy and Kaido won't happen anytime soon. It will take a lot of time to get to Wano, similar to the voyage to Arabasta in the first half of the Grand Line. Luffy and his friends will travel for some time, facing several of Kaido's allies and underlings, giving them the opportunity to get stronger in the process. And it's still questionalbe if Luffy will actually fight Kaido in Wano. Maybe he will, that time actually with help, he will be beaten, he will recover, he will come back for a second round, this time one-on-one and then he will win. After that he will probably even be considered a Yonko himself, before finding One Piece.

It has to happen sooner or later. Oda himself said some time ago IIRC that One Piece will probably end within 6 or 7 years. So within the next couple of years, Luffy should reach Yonko-level IMO. And he will reach that Level by beating Kaido.

Zoro vs Shogun

Zoro vs the Shogun and Zoro vs Jack are, I think, the most common predictions for Zoro in the Wano Arc. I think it will be the Shogun, and this is why: Jack is a swordsman, yes, but most importantly he is a devil-fruit user and I think someone else will fight him (see the next point). I think it is about damn time that Zoro will face an extremely high level swordsman one-on-one. (And only a swordsman! No devil fruits!) Zoro is aiming for Mihawk, he wants to be the best swordsman in the world and I think the Shogun will be the next very important step he has to take. There has been some speculation about the Shogun's powerlevel, if he is really that strong or just someone good at manipulating other people. I think he is incredibly strong for mainly three reasons: 1. As far as we know right now, he is Kaido's ally, not underling. 2. Wano is considered an incredibly powerful nation that even the World government avoids conflict with. The people at the top have to be ridiculously strong. 3. Providing an important opponent and challenge for Zoro on his way to becoming the world's strongest swordsman. I think the Shogun will be in the top 3 or at least top 5 of the strongest swordsmen in One Piece, someone not quite on Yonko-level, but actually close and above the three calamities.

It will be a swordfight, it will be bloody, it will be brutal, we will finally see Zoro go all out. Ever since the timeskip Zoro has fodderized everyone in his way, except for Fujitora, a freakin admiral, and even there he managed to hold his own for a short time. It's way past time to finally see Zoro go all out again and he will have to do exactly this in his fight with the Shogun. At the end Zoro will be bloody and on the verge of death (like he was after his fight with Mr 1), but he will have cemented his position as someone aiming for the top.

Nekomamushi and Inuarashi vs Jack

One word: Revenge! They will not take turns fighting him one-on-one, the will 2v1 him, they will somehow manage to fight him under a full moon, they will go Sulong on his ass. I am craving for this! This heartless bastard needs to be punished and Sulong Nekomamushi and Inuarashi are the right men, sorry, minks for the job. Do I need to say more? There will be blood. Lots of it. And it will be very satisfying.

Sanji and Jinbe vs Calamities

Apart from Jack there are two more calamities and Sanji and Jinbe will take care of them. By the time Luffy reaches Yonko-Level these two should be strong enough to do that. I think there will actually be one of them, who is actually even stronger or somehow more dangerous than Jack and Sanji will fight that one, re-establishing the Monster Trio of the Straw Hat Pirates. Sanji really needs an opportunity to shine, ever since the timeskip. After that, the name Black Leg Sanji will be known all over the world.

Trafalgar D. Water Law vs X Drake

Now this is just speculation, but I think there will be more to both of these guys' pasts and a deeper connection after what happened on Minion Island. (Edit: Based on the other Edit below (Law vs. Kaido's Ace) this fight could also occur some time before the actual Wano Arc.)

Eustass Kid vs Scratchmen Apoo

Same reason as the Nekomamushi and Inuarashi vs Jack fight: Revenge. They had an allience, Apoo betrayed that allience and joined Kaido, Kid will punish him for it. Again: Blood and brutality, Kid will finish him.

Apart from these 1v1 fights there will of course be a great war between Luffy's alliance and the Minks on one side, and the Beasts Pirates and the Shogun's forces on the other side.

EDIT: Law vs An Ace up Kaido's sleeve

Going by the Card-theme of Kaido's crew there could be someone even more powerful than the calamities in Kaido's crew. Someone like this would IMO be the perfect opponent for Law and his overpowered devil fruit.

Bounty predictions after that:

Luffy: 3,000,000,000B

Zoro: 1,600,000,000B

Sanji: 1,400,000,000B

Jinbe: 1,200,000,000B

Law: 900,000,000B EDIT: This is only based on him beating X Drake. He could very well do something far more impressive in the Wano-Arc or even before that, giving him a much higher bounty (somewhere between 1,500,000,000 and 2,000,000,000).

Kid: 800,000,000B

Rest of the Strawhats: Varying, all somewhere between 200,000,000 and 800,000,000B

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#2 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji’s bounty higher than Law’s?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

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#3 Posted by ValorKnight (11050 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy will fight Kaido? What tipped you off?

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#4 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Not forever. I believe both Law and Kid will have their opportunities to shine later in the series. Stuff like that happens. Right now, Usopp has a higher bounty than Sanji, which is faaar more outrageous.

@valor_175: That's not the point. Off course they will face each other. What I wanted to address here was that (from what I've read) most people believe that Luffy will not be able to beat Kaido one-on-one and that it will be a team-effort, which IMO would be quite disappointing.

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#5 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Not forever. I believe both Law and Kid will have their opportunities to shine later in the series. Stuff like that happens. Right now, Usopp has a higher bounty than Sanji, which is faaar more outrageous.

Right, pigs will fly before Sanji gets a higher bounty than Law.

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#6 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: You really think Sanji's bounty being higher than Law's is more ridiculous than Usopp's bounty being higher than Sanji's? Okay. I think Usopp's bounty being higher than Brook's is more ridiculous than Sanji's being higher than Law's. Btw, is this everything you get out of this thread?

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#7 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: You really think Sanji's bounty being higher than Law's is more ridiculous than Usopp's bounty being higher than Sanji's? Okay. I think Usopp's bounty being higher than Brook's is more ridiculous than Sanji's being higher than Law's. Btw, is this everything you get out of this thread?

There's context behind Usopp's bounty being that high.

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#8 Posted by Omega_kai (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

I can’t wait for Wano, it’s about time Zoro actually met a worthy adversary.

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#9 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: True. The context here would be that Sanji defeated a calamity and Law only one captain of Kaido's alliance, not that Sanji is stronger or (with Law being a pirate captain) overall more powerful than Law. You know, I made these bounty-predictions based on my fight-predictions. Of course Law could do something else or additional to that (or X Drake could be stronger than I expect him to be), resulting in Law getting a much higher bounty. The bounty-predictions really weren't the part I wanted to focus on here, they were only the final touch. Of course I could be completely wrong, especially about that part. I would still like to hear, what you think about the rest of what I wrote.

@omegakai: Amen to that. Do you think it will be the Shogun or Jack? (Or someone else entirely?)

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#10 Posted by kroczilla (1626 posts) - - Show Bio

I would honestly prefer seeing the M3 combine their strength to take down kaidou. I think it's still too early for luffy to reach emperor lvl.

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#11 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

You realize Jack isn’t Kaido’s strongest crew member right? It’s implied he’s the 3rd strongest in the crew. Doffy being the 4th.

King > Queen > Jack > Joker.

If Luffy happens to beat Kaido one on one, which I doubt honestly given the pacing of the series, he’ll without a doubt be a yonkou

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#12 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

I would honestly prefer seeing the M3 combine their strength to take down kaidou. I think it's still too early for luffy to reach emperor lvl.

That's why I think, there will be a long journey, before Luffy finally faces Kaido. Would you have thought, Luffy would defeat a Shichibukai so early in the series? (I know, Crocodile was a lot weaker compared to the other Shichibukai, but still.) Moreover: Going by Oda's statement that One Piece will probably end withing the next 7 years (other estimations are (I think) about 9 years), when do you think, Luffy will finally reach Yonko-Level?

You realize Jack isn’t Kaido’s strongest crew member right? It’s implied he’s the 3rd strongest in the crew. Doffy being the 4th.

King > Queen > Jack > Joker.

If Luffy happens to beat Kaido one on one, which I doubt honestly given the pacing of the series, he’ll without a doubt be a yonkou

See above ^^ and

I never said, Jack was the strongest. I just think he was called Kaido's right-hand-man at one point, but translations can be tricky. Another thought (continuing the card-theme): What do you think about another powerful member of the Beast's Pirates, besides the calamities - an "Ace" up Kaido's sleeve? @socajunkie: This guy could also be Law's opponent, justifying a much higher bounty than what I originally thought of.

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#13 Edited by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: I believe it’ll all be a team fight, the whitebeard pirates will most likely be involved so I think everyone outside of the calamities will be handled by them plus the rest of the alliance. I can honestly see Luffy and Law fighting Kaido at the same time while Marco and Zoro handle the other two

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#14 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstroke: True, I didn't take the Whitebeard Pirates into account. Still, I think Luffy will beat Kaido 1v1. (I don't think it's any use arguing about it any more. Maybe we should just wait and see.) Btw, what do you mean by Marco and Zoro handling the other two? There are three calamities (as you previously said yourself).

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#15 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: Just assuming Jack is still under water lol, which he probably isn’t. I just don’t see how anybody knows he’s down there plus Kaidou’s entire crew are DF users (my assumption) so how would they get him?

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#16 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstroke: Good point. :D ... a really long chain, I guess? No seriously, even DF-users can go underwater if they are properly equipped, Luffy has done it before. As for the location: that one is a bit trickier, but if the Beast's Pirates find out, where the fight between Jack and the Marines took place they can also probably find him. Maybe someone has a Vivre Card of Jack. I really doubt that a character like Jack will be killed of just like that.

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#17 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: Yea, I doubt that was the last we are gonna see of him. I’m sure the Mink tribe are gonna be the ones to truley finish him off. Especially after the recent power up form from Carrot, there gonna bring it when they see Jack again

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#18 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie:I made a few Edits to the original post. In case you are interested.

@thedeathstroke: That's exactly the reason why I think it will be the Minks fighting Jack and not Zoro. Moreover: I made a mistake. Jack was at the bottom of the ocean after he got smashed by Zunisha, not after his battle with the marines.

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#19 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: Cool, apologies for not giving my thoughts on the rest of the OP, I'll do so when I can.

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#20 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Thanks, I really don't think you need to apologise for that, take your time.

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#21 Edited by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: How high of a bounty do you think Kaidou’s strongest commander has? I’m thinking 1.5-2b

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#22 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma

Kaido's status as (right now) the strongest single person in One Piece, his incredible durability and strength and his position as one of the Yonko will be a very important obstacle for Luffy to overcome. Luffy is aiming for the title of Pirate King. If he wins such major fights only in a team-effort, how can he aim for the top like that? The world thinks, Kaido cannot be taken down one-on-one, Luffy will do exactly that and show the world who he is and what he can do. After that fight Luffy and Blackbeard will be the top contenders for the throne of Pirate King (and of course Teach will be Luffy's final opponent before finding One Piece (not the final opponent of the series!)).

Agreed.

Now, how will this happen? People will probably argue that right now, Luffy is still quite far from being Yonko-level, and that's absolutely true. That's why I think the final battle between Luffy and Kaido won't happen anytime soon. It will take a lot of time to get to Wano, similar to the voyage to Arabasta in the first half of the Grand Line. Luffy and his friends will travel for some time, facing several of Kaido's allies and underlings, giving them the opportunity to get stronger in the process. And it's still questionalbe if Luffy will actually fight Kaido in Wano. Maybe he will, that time actually with help, he will be beaten, he will recover, he will come back for a second round, this time one-on-one and then he will win. After that he will probably even be considered a Yonko himself, before finding One Piece.

Yep, also Law, one of the most tactically smart people introduced in the series, told Luffy on Punk Hazard that their alliance would grant them a 30% chance of beating Kaido in a 2x Supernova crew vs Yonko crew fashion. However he didn't know about G4 so that's a factor which bumps that percentage up but I won't try to guess how much and stray away from conjecture. What also accentuates your far-away-Kaido-fight point is that Big Mom, Kaido's peer, easily blocked Kong Gun with one arm and caused Luffy to revert back to base. That's a nice parallel you drew between Alabasta and the current events in One Piece.

One thing that really disturbs me is Law's Eternal Life Surgery. If he grants someone immortality, he dies in exchange. Doflamingo tried to pressure Law into performing the surgery on him but Law responded by telling Doffy he'd do it only if he personally licked the a******* of everyone in Dressrosa.

Back on track: Kaido is touted as immortal and extremely difficult to injure through his survival feats and implications via statements, what I'm thinking is that perhaps Law will be forced to perform a reverse of his surgery on Kaido for Luffy to harm him, killing himself in the process. I hope this doesn't happen since Law is my favourite character but it's a suspicion I have.

It has to happen sooner or later. Oda himself said some time ago IIRC that One Piece will probably end within 6 or 7 years. So within the next couple of years, Luffy should reach Yonko-level IMO. And he will reach that Level by beating Kaido.

Yea probably.

Zoro vs Shogun

Zoro vs the Shogun and Zoro vs Jack are, I think, the most common predictions for Zoro in the Wano Arc. I think it will be the Shogun, and this is why: Jack is a swordsman, yes, but most importantly he is a devil-fruit user and I think someone else will fight him (see the next point). I think it is about damn time that Zoro will face an extremely high level swordsman one-on-one. (And only a swordsman! No devil fruits!) Zoro is aiming for Mihawk, he wants to be the best swordsman in the world and I think the Shogun will be the next very important step he has to take. There has been some speculation about the Shogun's powerlevel, if he is really that strong or just someone good at manipulating other people. I think he is incredibly strong for mainly three reasons: 1. As far as we know right now, he is Kaido's ally, not underling. 2. Wano is considered an incredibly powerful nation that even the World government avoids conflict with. The people at the top have to be ridiculously strong. 3. Providing an important opponent and challenge for Zoro on his way to becoming the world's strongest swordsman. I think the Shogun will be in the top 3 or at least top 5 of the strongest swordsmen in One Piece, someone not quite on Yonko-level, but actually close and above the three calamities.

Hit the nail on the head completely, Zoro facing and ultimately beating the Shogun is a needed step for his development on the road towards Hawk-Eyes. After the Shogun I see him fighting Shiryu who would have the diamond fruit he got after killing Jozu and this was foreshadowed years ago by Daz Bones after Zoro cut his steel when he asked if he'd try cutting diamond next.

It will be a swordfight, it will be bloody, it will be brutal, we will finally see Zoro go all out. Ever since the timeskip Zoro has fodderized everyone in his way, except for Fujitora, a freakin admiral, and even there he managed to hold his own for a short time. It's way past time to finally see Zoro go all out again and he will have to do exactly this in his fight with the Shogun. At the end Zoro will be bloody and on the verge of death (like he was after his fight with Mr 1), but he will have cemented his position as someone aiming for the top.

Yep.

Nekomamushi and Inuarashi vs Jack

One word: Revenge! They will not take turns fighting him one-on-one, the will 2v1 him, they will somehow manage to fight him under a full moon, they will go Sulong on his ass. I am craving for this! This heartless bastard needs to be punished and Sulong Nekomamushi and Inuarashi are the right men, sorry, minks for the job. Do I need to say more? There will be blood. Lots of it. And it will be very satisfying.

Oh certainly, given that they were able to hold their own against Jack individually for 12 hour periods, judging from the boost Carrot displayed by going Sulong, they should beat the piss out of Jack in a 2 v 1. Narrative wise though, Jack is still one of Kaido's strongest so he probably didn't display his true potential on Zou.

Sanji and Jinbe vs Calamities

Apart from Jack there are two more calamities and Sanji and Jinbe will take care of them. By the time Luffy reaches Yonko-Level these two should be strong enough to do that. I think there will actually be one of them, who is actually even stronger or somehow more dangerous than Jack and Sanji will fight that one, re-establishing the Monster Trio of the Straw Hat Pirates. Sanji really needs an opportunity to shine, ever since the timeskip. After that, the name Black Leg Sanji will be known all over the world.

I agree with this too, the M3's original members need to be re-established. Still it's cool knowing Sanji is just as good if not better than his Super Soldier, genetically enhanced brothers and sister.

Trafalgar D. Water Law vs X Drake

Now this is just speculation, but I think there will be more to both of these guys' pasts and a deeper connection after what happened on Minion Island. (Edit: Based on the other Edit below (Law vs. Kaido's Ace) this fight could also occur some time before the actual Wano Arc.)

This is quite an unusual match-up considering their fighting styles are completely different. Law can fight cqc if need be as he's proven in the past, but he's predominantly a mid to long range fighter, but Drake has eaten an Ancient Zoan, Zoan's are the best fruits for cqc combat as they directly boost stats and Drake probably (of course) is proficient in armament haki so Law would really have to use his head in that fight, teleport away and keep his distance in case Drake's Haki is strong enough to block his cuts. Law's own armament haki is damn powerful though, having blocked Doflamingo's meteor dicing strings, so Drake won't find it easy either.

Eustass Kid vs Scratchmen Apoo

Same reason as the Nekomamushi and Inuarashi vs Jack fight: Revenge. They had an allience, Apoo betrayed that allience and joined Kaido, Kid will punish him for it. Again: Blood and brutality, Kid will finish him.

Lol totally, I don't see Apoo surviving and Kid isn't Luffy: he doesn't knock people out to finish a fight. He kills them.

Apart from these 1v1 fights there will of course be a great war between Luffy's alliance and the Minks on one side, and the Beasts Pirates and the Shogun's forces on the other side.

Yep.

EDIT: Law vs An Ace up Kaido's sleeve

Hmmm

Going by the Card-theme of Kaido's crew there could be someone even more powerful than the calamities in Kaido's crew. Someone like this would IMO be the perfect opponent for Law and his overpowered devil fruit.

I never thought about this but I'm loving the idea.

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#23 Edited by Omega_kai (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

@omegakai: Amen to that. Do you think it will be the Shogun or Jack? (Or someone else entirely?)

My bad, I’m just noticing this now, I think it can be either or most likely but I’m leaning a smidge towards the Shogun.

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#24 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

He's eclipsing Yonkos already? Hmmm.

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#25 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

He's eclipsing Yonkos already? Hmmm.

He's not, he barely beat Big Mom's First Mate.

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#26 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Yeah but it's only a matter of time. Give it 10 more years and he'll be some new Pirate King. Seems a bit DBZish especially considering OP is one of the tolerably written mangas compared to others.

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#28 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterskywalker: Comment got deleted, my bad.

A few more years when One Piece ends and he’s the PK he will likely be the most powerful person in the verse but he still wouldn’t eclipse the other Yonko since he parallels Roger who himself, while the most powerful pirate, still had Whitebeard and Shiki as rivals.

It is however sometimes a Shonen trope for the protagonist to be OP by EoS compared to his supposed peers (looking at you, Toriko) but I trust Oda not to do that to avoid spoiling the consistency he has shown thus far.

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#29 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: I would like for him to be at least respectable in power with some limitations and working for it. I feel like even if Luffy got stronger over the years and felt confident enough Kaido or Charlotte should still fodderize him.

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#30 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio
@thedeathstroke said:

@janjukbma: How high of a bounty do you think Kaidou’s strongest commander has? I’m thinking 1.5-2b

Not sure. I think the calamities will be rather close to each other, so no higher than 1.2-1.4b If however there is another, more powerful crewmember (like the "Ace" I suggested), he could very well be around 1.5-2b. What do you think about Kaido himself? I would say 3b or close to that.

@socajunkie: Thanks a lot for the detailed response.

Yep, also Law, one of the most tactically smart people introduced in the series, told Luffy on Punk Hazard that their alliance would grant them a 30% chance of beating Kaido in a 2x Supernova crew vs Yonko crew fashion. However he didn't know about G4 so that's a factor which bumps that percentage up but I won't try to guess how much and stray away from conjecture.

Good point, I actually didn't remember the 30% chance statement by Law anymore. Moreover Law doesn't know about potential future improvements (Awakening or Gear 5 maybe) and about the capabilities of other crewmembers (Asura, Diable Jambe, Monster Point, General Franky, etc.) which of course won't be a factor in a 1v1 with Kaido, but the will most likely be important for taking out some of his strongest or at least stronger crew members. Edit: At that point another powerful fighter, Jinbe, wasn't part of Luffy's crew either.

What also accentuates your far-away-Kaido-fight point is that Big Mom, Kaido's peer, easily blocked Kong Gun with one arm and caused Luffy to revert back to base.

Yep. That's probably also the reason why many people can't see Luffy defeating Kaido alone.

That's a nice parallel you drew between Alabasta and the current events in One Piece.

Thanks. As I said before: Back then many people probably didn't expect Luffy to defeat a Shichibukai so early in the series, but it worked out quite well. Therefore I don't see a problem with Luffy defeating Kaido.

One thing that really disturbs me is Law's Eternal Life Surgery. If he grants someone immortality, he dies in exchange. Doflamingo tried to pressure Law into performing the surgery on him but Law responded by telling Doffy he'd do it only if he personally licked the a******* of everyone in Dressrosa.

Back on track: Kaido is touted as immortal and extremely difficult to injure through his survival feats and implications via statements, what I'm thinking is that perhaps Law will be forced to perform a reverse of his surgery on Kaido for Luffy to harm him, killing himself in the process. I hope this doesn't happen since Law is my favourite character but it's a suspicion I have.

That bit is based on Kaido being immortal because someone performed the eternal life surgery on him in the past, right? I'm not absolutely sure about that part. Of course it does make a lot of sense, but there have been other people with insane, apparently innate, durability (Big Mom and Bobby Funk). Kaido could also have an even more extreme version of this natural durability. However if Kaido actually gained his invulnerability via the surgery, I can totally see something like Law performing a reverse surgery on him happening. I simply wouldn't like it for two reasons: 1. As you pointed out already: Law would have to die for it and I really like him as a character as well. (He isn't my overall favorite, but he is definitely very far up the ladder). 2. I would like it a lot more if Luffy actually were to find it somehow within his own abilities to overcome Kaido's invulnerability. Oda is a very smart person, I am sure he can come up with something awesome in that regard.

Moreover I can also see Law sacrificing his life to save someone else (Luffy for example). As sad as it would be, I don't think Oda would introduce this ability without actually using it at some point in the series. I know there are potential problems with him using the eternal life surgery on Luffy. It would almost destroy him as a character, since he wouldn't have to get stronger and better to overcome stronger opponents. But there might be two ways around this: 1. It happens at the very end of the series, when Luffy has already defeated everyone he has to defeat. At that point all the long term effects of his fights and injuries as well as the backlash from his Gears becomes life-threatening and in the last chapters Law saves him. (I would also like this, because it would mean that Law will stick around until the end of the series). 2. There is still the question: What does granting someone eternal life actually mean in this scenario? Is it true immortality and invulnerability (like Kaido probably has) or is it just some elvish-style no-dying-from-old-age immortality?

Hit the nail on the head completely, Zoro facing and ultimately beating the Shogun is a needed step for his development on the road towards Hawk-Eyes. After the Shogun I see him fighting Shiryu who would have the diamond fruit he got after killing Jozu and this was foreshadowed years ago by Daz Bones after Zoro cut his steel when he asked if he'd try cutting diamond next.

I agree with basically everything you said here. There is just one thing I am wondering about: Who will be Zoro's final opponent? Will it really be Hawkeye, or will Hawkeye be killed by Diamond Shiryu, making him Zoro's final opponent? I am really, really conflicted on that part. On one hand, I would hate to see Hawkeye meet his end at Shiryu's hands, mostly because in that scenario he won't be defeated by a better swordsman, but by an almost cowardly trick: using the diamond devil fruit against him (probably combined with very strong haki. I can see Mihawk being able to cut diamond, but used by a really proficient haki user, he might be outmatched). On the other hand, Zoro fighting and killing (or almost killing) Mihawk to become the world's greatest swordsman would also be gut-wrenching, since Mihawk trained him for two years and the two really respect each other (and I also think to a degree they like each other).

Oh certainly, given that they were able to hold their own against Jack individually for 12 hour periods, judging from the boost Carrot displayed by going Sulong, they should beat the piss out of Jack in a 2 v 1. Narrative wise though, Jack is still one of Kaido's strongest so he probably didn't display his true potential on Zou.

Totally agreed. Based on feats and implied strength Sulong Nekomamushi and Inuarashi should pulverize Jack. Based on story telling and potential hidden abilities on Jack's part it will probably still be quite a fight.

I agree with this too, the M3's original members need to be re-established. Still it's cool knowing Sanji is just as good if not better than his Super Soldier, genetically enhanced brothers and sister.

So true. Sanji caving in Yonji's head and kicking around Niji was great. I think he is better than them and he probably could have beaten his father too, had he gone all-out. (Or at least I hope so. In the end both Niji and Judge resortet to dirty tricks to get the better of Sanji.) And there will definitely be far greater things ahead for Sanji.

This is quite an unusual match-up considering their fighting styles are completely different. Law can fight cqc if need be as he's proven in the past, but he's predominantly a mid to long range fighter, but Drake has eaten an Ancient Zoan, Zoan's are the best fruits for cqc combat as they directly boost stats and Drake probably (of course) is proficient in armament haki so Law would really have to use his head in that fight, teleport away and keep his distance in case Drake's Haki is strong enough to block his cuts. Law's own armament haki is damn powerful though, having blocked Doflamingo's meteor dicing strings, so Drake won't find it easy either.

Yeah, as I said this match-up is just speculation. I'm just wondering: Why would Oda introduce or at least hint at them crossing paths in the past when there isn't more to it? I really like your thoughts on the fight. I really want to see what Drake can do with his ancient zoan devil fruit and what his overall combat capabilities are. On Sabaody Archipelago he stopped both Urouge and Killer from colliding in his base form, using one hand/weapon for each. And two years later Urouge defeats a Yonko commander. I expect Drake to be formidable.

Lol totally, I don't see Apoo surviving and Kid isn't Luffy: he doesn't knock people out to finish a fight. He kills them.

Absolutely. Btw, I think that Apoo can be quite cool and interesting, but at the same time he can be really annoying, so I'd love to see Kid shut him up for good. :D

I never thought about this but I'm loving the idea.

Mee too, but I am really not sure about my own idea here. It would be cool, but also bittersweet, because there already was an Ace in One Piece and he was beloved and incredibly important to the story and to Luffy as a character. Introducing another Ace could be seen as an insult to the original Ace. (Although Kaido's crewmember wouldn't actually have the name "Ace", it would just be a term to highlight his place in the Beast's pirates. But it could still be pulled of in a way that works. Probably something like Kaido actually, intentionally insulting Luffy by bringing up Portgas D. Ace and his death and/or claiming that his own Ace is somehow superior to Luffy's brother. And then Law, Luffy's ally and by that point probably also close friend, takes care of this insult. This could also add something to their relationship.

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#31 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

He's eclipsing Yonkos already? Hmmm.

Not yet and I don't think that he will ever actually eclipse the Yonko. Even EOS Luffy will probably be only slightly above the Yonko.

@socajunkie: I would like for him to be at least respectable in power with some limitations and working for it. I feel like even if Luffy got stronger over the years and felt confident enough Kaido or Charlotte should still fodderize him.

Right now, they would definitely fodderize him, that's why I predict there will be a long journey before Luffy finally fights Kaido.

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#32 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2863 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: I want to say like 4-5b, I believe he has the highest bounty out of the yonkou considering all the times the marines actually failed to kill him.

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#33 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstroke: Hmmm...I don't know. 4-5b would be something I would expect from Dragon (most wanted man in the world) or EOS Luffy (Pirate King).

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#34 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, after the Chapter "The Fifth Emperor", I think this should be bumped.

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#35 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy's bounty being tripled was the result of Morgans' fake news, he's not actually Yonko level or a true Yonko for need to state the obvious. He has a Grand Fleet though and 4,000 subordinates which means he's the closest out of everyone from the Worst Generation.

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#36 Edited by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: That's not the point. I know that Luffy isn't really Yonko-Level yet. It just shows, how quickly he progresses. People again and again underestimate this to the point that it gets frustrating IMO. There were so many people saying that Luffy would never beat Katakuri and look where we are now. Luffy is now definitely up there, challanging the big guys. From here to actually beating a Yonko is not a further step than from beating Doflamingo to where Luffy is now.

And it wasn't all fake news. Morgan did not exaggerate Luffy's combat abilites. Just his planning abilities and overall importance to the plot against Big Mom.

Edit: IIRC Luffy has more than 6,000 followers. Not that that's very important, just sayin'.

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#37 Edited by juiceboks (24198 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

@socajunkie: That's not the point. I know that Luffy isn't really Yonko-Level yet. It just shows, how quickly he progresses. People again and again underestimate this to the point that it gets frustrating IMO. There were so many people saying that Luffy would never beat Katakuri and look where we are now. Luffy is now definitely up there, challanging the big guys. From here to actually beating a Yonko is not a further step than from beating Doflamingo to where Luffy is now.

And it wasn't all fake news. Morgan did not exaggerate Luffy's combat abilites. Just his planning abilities and overall importance to the plot against Big Mom.

Edit: IIRC Luffy has more than 6,000 followers. Not that that's very important, just sayin'.

Huh? There were quite a few of us that didn't know how he would beat him because we knew Gear 4 clearly wasn't enough, but it was pretty clear that he was going to beat him. Luffy didn't really progress at all from his fight with Doflamingo besides bringing out a new form that was simply better suited to fighting Katakuri, and even then he only beat him by a hair.

The new chapter doesn't reveal anything regarding Luffy's power. Morgans report tells us nothing about how Luffy would fare against Kaido, which is still pretty clear in Kaido's favor.

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#38 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

@socajunkie: That's not the point. I know that Luffy isn't really Yonko-Level yet. It just shows, how quickly he progresses. People again and again underestimate this to the point that it gets frustrating IMO. There were so many people saying that Luffy would never beat Katakuri and look where we are now. Luffy is now definitely up there, challanging the big guys. From here to actually beating a Yonko is not a further step than from beating Doflamingo to where Luffy is now.

Considering the fact that Luffy + Law's entire alliance had a 30% chance of beating Kaidoand that the only way Luffy has improved from Dressrosa is getting advanced observation haki and that G4BM Luffy lasted one blow against a Yonko, the step hasn't actually changed that much.

'Where he is now' is artificial. Blackbeard was immediately skeptical and said he wasn't ready.

And it wasn't all fake news. Morgan did not exaggerate Luffy's combat abilites. Just his planning abilities and overall importance to the plot against Big Mom.

He didn't exaggerate his combat skills but he didn't have all the facts either since it said he beat two Commanders worth 800M and 1B respectively however he didn't know that Luffy needed help to defeat Cracker and if he did know then surely Nami's bounty would have went up too.

In fact even without that, her bounty should have drastically increased just for taking control of Zeus, attacking Big Mom and stealing said thunder cloud which has a part of Linlin's soul. But it didn't get raised because Morgans didn't know all the facts.

Edit: IIRC Luffy has more than 6,000 followers. Not that that's very important, just sayin'.

No, it's over 5k, just checked.

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#39 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: The 30% chance was calculated with Law's very limited knowledge about the Straw Hats' abilities. And saying that Luffy only lasted one blow against a Yonko is a weird way of putting it IMO. Luffy attacked Big Mom, she blocked with haki and wasn't harmed. Sure, she is shown to be superior to Luffy but its not like she knocked him out or something. And about Cracker: Yes, he had help, but after the fight with Katakuri it is pretty ovious that he could have done it alone, had he gone completely all out.

@juiceboks: I saw many people (not necessarily on Comic Vine) arguing that Luffy isn't ready yet and that Katakuri will defeat him. And that Luffy will be rescued by someone.

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#40 Posted by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma: And that arbitrary number isn’t going to skyrocket based on what we’ve seen from Luffy’s interactions with another Yonko.

How is it a weird way of putting it? It’s literally what happened, after one blow he was spent.

He did go completely all out against Cracker, it still didn’t get him anywhere. Snake Man isn’t a better form than Bound Man, it’s just more suited to fighting Katakuri.

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#41 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: Highly debatable. Law didn't know anything about Gear 4, Luffy's Haki capabilities, or any of the other Straw Hats abilities except for maybe hearsay.

What do you mean "spent"? He was conscious and shortly after that continued fighting. He wasn't injured, he wasn't intimidated, he wasn't in any way out of the game. How was he spent?

Moreover, based on what can you say that Snake Man isn't better than Bound Man? It has far greater speed and more versatility. That is an advantage against any opponent, not just Katakuri. And regarding Cracker: With Snake Man's speed and superior maneuverability I don't see any reason why Luffy shouldn't have beaten Cracker without Nami's help, simply by avoiding the Biscuit Soldiers and going directly for Cracker.

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#42 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

@socajunkie: Highly debatable. Law didn't know anything about Gear 4, Luffy's Haki capabilities, or any of the other Straw Hats abilities except for maybe hearsay.

And this number will shoot from 30 percent to what?

What do you mean "spent"? He was conscious and shortly after that continued fighting. He wasn't injured, he wasn't intimidated, he wasn't in any way out of the game. How was he spent?

The fact that he was immediately powered down and out of puff, continuing to fight after is down to his fast recovery.

Moreover, based on what can you say that Snake Man isn't better than Bound Man? It has far greater speed and more versatility. That is an advantage against any opponent, not just Katakuri. And regarding Cracker: With Snake Man's speed and superior maneuverability I don't see any reason why Luffy shouldn't have beaten Cracker without Nami's help, simply by avoiding the Biscuit Soldiers and going directly for Cracker.

It isn't any better because it only specializes in a different area.

Boundman has the strength and durability, Snake Man has the speed.

He wouldn't have been able to go directly for Cracker because Snake Man wouldn't have broken his armor in the first place.

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#43 Posted by JanJuKBMa (543 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

@socajunkie: Highly debatable. Law didn't know anything about Gear 4, Luffy's Haki capabilities, or any of the other Straw Hats abilities except for maybe hearsay.

And this number will shoot from 30 percent to what?

What do you mean "spent"? He was conscious and shortly after that continued fighting. He wasn't injured, he wasn't intimidated, he wasn't in any way out of the game. How was he spent?

The fact that he was immediately powered down and out of puff, continuing to fight after is down to his fast recovery.

Moreover, based on what can you say that Snake Man isn't better than Bound Man? It has far greater speed and more versatility. That is an advantage against any opponent, not just Katakuri. And regarding Cracker: With Snake Man's speed and superior maneuverability I don't see any reason why Luffy shouldn't have beaten Cracker without Nami's help, simply by avoiding the Biscuit Soldiers and going directly for Cracker.

It isn't any better because it only specializes in a different area.

Boundman has the strength and durability, Snake Man has the speed.

He wouldn't have been able to go directly for Cracker because Snake Man wouldn't have broken his armor in the first place.

I cannot give a certain answer for the percentage, since we don't know Kaido's exact abilities, his crew's abilities, the exact situation in Wano. Moreover we still don't really know Sanji's and especially Zoro's upper limits since the timeskip. (Neither does Law. Basically noone does except for maybe Ivankov and Mihawk.) All I am trying to say is that Law's original assessment of their chances against Kaido is basically null and void by now.

Luffy powering down after clashing with Big Mom is a fair point but still: He wasn't really defeated. When Luffy first fought Crocodile he was down for the count, the situation with BM was entirely different. And not long after that He fought Crocodile a second and a third time and finally beat him. (Sure, there was a lot of PIS/CIS/luck and sheer stubbornness involved, but that doesn't change the fact that he did. Let's also not forget that during their second and third encounter Luffy was still weakened from being stabbed through the stomach with a huge hook, only two or three days ago.)

Is their any evidence for Snake Man having less fire-power than Boundman? Or more specifically: For it being too weak to do anything to Cracker's armor? Or are these just assumptions? I'm honestly just curious, I might have missed something while reading the manga.

Moreover let's approach this from a story-perspective as well: Luffy beat Katakuri. The strongest member of the BM pirates. Regarded as basically unbeatable, never on his back, never weak. Only the thought of him losing seems ridiculous to all his crewmates. And Luffy beat him. Saying that he wouldn't beat Cracker in a one-on-one fight if he went all out after all that has happened in the Whole Cake Island Arc just seems totally wrong to me. You question that Luffy could deal enough damage to beat Cracker. I question that Cracker would even be able to hit Luffy with his heavily improved observation haki and the speed of Snake Man.

Off-topic: I recently spend some time on YouTube in the comment sections. (For the first time in my life.) I must say having a meaningful discussion here on Comic Vine is infinitely preferable to being insulted for basic and completely harmless statements. That place is a mess...

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#44 Edited by SocaJunkie (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@janjukbma said:

I cannot give a certain answer for the percentage, since we don't know Kaido's exact abilities, his crew's abilities, the exact situation in Wano. Moreover we still don't really know Sanji's and especially Zoro's upper limits since the timeskip. (Neither does Law. Basically noone does except for maybe Ivankov and Mihawk.) All I am trying to say is that Law's original assessment of their chances against Kaido is basically null and void by now.

Ok.

Luffy powering down after clashing with Big Mom is a fair point but still: He wasn't really defeated. When Luffy first fought Crocodile he was down for the count, the situation with BM was entirely different. And not long after that He fought Crocodile a second and a third time and finally beat him. (Sure, there was a lot of PIS/CIS/luck and sheer stubbornness involved, but that doesn't change the fact that he did. Let's also not forget that during their second and third encounter Luffy was still weakened from being stabbed through the stomach with a huge hook, only two or three days ago.)

The Crocodile point is a red herring seeing as the circumstances are completely different from his clash with Big Mom. For some reason unbeknownst to us he was powered down from his clash against her after only one blow. It was as if his Haki was drained from his body and he needed to recharge, that isn't a good sign.

Is their any evidence for Snake Man having less fire-power than Boundman? Or more specifically: For it being too weak to do anything to Cracker's armor? Or are these just assumptions? I'm honestly just curious, I might have missed something while reading the manga.

There's evidence: Katakuri used his own arm to block a hit from a SM Culverin but he needed Strength Mochi to block or deflect Bound Man's hits therefore we can infer Bound Man is physically stronger.

Moreover let's approach this from a story-perspective as well: Luffy beat Katakuri. The strongest member of the BM pirates. Regarded as basically unbeatable, never on his back, never weak. Only the thought of him losing seems ridiculous to all his crewmates. And Luffy beat him. Saying that he wouldn't beat Cracker in a one-on-one fight if he went all out after all that has happened in the Whole Cake Island Arc just seems totally wrong to me. You question that Luffy could deal enough damage to beat Cracker. I question that Cracker would even be able to hit Luffy with his heavily improved observation haki and the speed of Snake Man.

Sure from a story perspective Luffy is above Cracker. Perhaps I'm focusing too much on practicality and feats but he doesn't have a way of breaking the armor with SM but you're correct in saying Cracker won't be able to hit him but I'd then bring up Luffy running out of Haki/stamina in the later hours of the fight.

Cracker himself wouldn't expend energy since his biscuit soldiers will be doing the work.

Off-topic: I recently spend some time on YouTube in the comment sections. (For the first time in my life.) I must say having a meaningful discussion here on Comic Vine is infinitely preferable to being insulted for basic and completely harmless statements. That place is a mess...

I once got attacked for saying Sanji can never beat Zoro lel

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