Kenobi series confirmed to have prequel style choreography + Prime Vader

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frozen

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#1  Edited By frozen  Moderator

From new interview with Hayden Christensen

“Is Darth’s fighting style more in line with the prequels or the slower dancing in the sequels? We’re more in line with the prequels than we are with how the fights are in the original trilogy. These characters have aged, but not that much yet,” he explained.

So Vader will be fighting at a speed more in alignment with the prequels. Interestingly Hayden seems to imply that age is the reason he will fight faster. He seems to be implying thar Vader worsened over time? And that OT Vader is a worse duelist than 10bby Vader.

Here he says Kenobi series Vader is prime:

“The actor also revealed that fans should expect a version of Darth Vader “in his prime.” “He is 100% a fully realised Vader…”

Interesting stuff. Thoughts?

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ReaperAce

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PT choreo will be the main hype for me, I wanted to see LA Vader in a fast-paced action sequence since I was a kid.

As the comment that seems to imply that Vader worsened over time, He is just referring to the slower pace and less energetic fights with older characters. and that is not just in the OT, The PT Office duel or Dooku AOTC duel is slower than the ROTJ duel.

Older characters are more cautious and less energetic to keep their reserves in the showrunner's view, but with gotta keep in mind Suited Vader has near-unlimited reserves in either Canon or EU.

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GangOrca

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PT choreo will be the main hype for me, I wanted to see LA Vader in a fast-paced action sequence since I was a kid.

As the comment that seems to imply that Vader worsened over time, He is just referring to the slower pace and less energetic fights with older characters. and that is not just in the OT, The PT Office duel or Dooku AOTC duel is slower than the ROTJ duel.

Older characters are more cautious and less energetic to keep their reserves in the showrunner's view, but with gotta keep in mind Suited Vader has near-unlimited reserves in either Canon or EU.

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PaleBlood

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Prequel style choreography is good, as long as they are not going to some random jumps/backflips every 2 second. I really hope this show to be a more of a character story than anything else. The most exciting thing so far has been the cinematography for me, the show looks freaking beautiful.

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SonOfDarkness

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Nice

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SonOfDarkness

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Where did you find this interview?

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frozen

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nassergrant19

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#10 nassergrant19  Online

@gangorca said:
@reaperace said:

PT choreo will be the main hype for me, I wanted to see LA Vader in a fast-paced action sequence since I was a kid.

As the comment that seems to imply that Vader worsened over time, He is just referring to the slower pace and less energetic fights with older characters. and that is not just in the OT, The PT Office duel or Dooku AOTC duel is slower than the ROTJ duel.

Older characters are more cautious and less energetic to keep their reserves in the showrunner's view, but with gotta keep in mind Suited Vader has near-unlimited reserves in either Canon or EU.

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DaddyPrometheus

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Prequel style choreography is good, as long as they are not going to some random jumps/backflips every 2 second. I really hope this show to be a more of a character story than anything else. The most exciting thing so far has been the cinematography for me, the show looks freaking beautiful.

This.

Also i like that this is a Vader that is > Anakin to not contradict the Canon.

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McFlicky

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Can't wait to see them twirl their lightsabers around for 20 seconds and spin like ballerinas

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frozen

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#13 frozen  Moderator

@mcflicky said:

Can't wait to see them twirl their lightsabers around for 20 seconds and spin like ballerinas

I'd take that over the slow and sluggish sequel trilogy fights.

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Ready_4_Madness

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Not really a fan of the prequel fights

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#15 frozen  Moderator

Not really a fan of the prequel fights

That's fine but the sequel duels sucked big time. Its about time we see lightsaber duels that actually look skilled, rather than the sequel duels which looked like children hitting their lightsaber toys together.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@frozen: I’d like a balance between the two. I appreciate the sequel fights for being more grounded but they definitely could’ve add a bit more flair to it. And the prequels could’ve done with less flair.

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finalkingthanos

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@ready_4_madness: I’m with you on this, the perfect saber fights would have speed and “skill” of the prequels but the sequels at least had some moments it looked like they were trying to chop the other person up.

A balance would be decent I actually think Rogue one and Mandolorian made Vader and Luke strike a nice balance.

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kgb725

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@frozen said:
@ready_4_madness said:

Not really a fan of the prequel fights

That's fine but the sequel duels sucked big time. Its about time we see lightsaber duels that actually look skilled, rather than the sequel duels which looked like children hitting their lightsaber toys together.

Big fan of the twirls and flips ?

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G_Race

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#19  Edited By G_Race

Personally and hopeful we get to see a prime & enraged Vader demonstrating his PHYSICAL strength! Can you imagine seeing Vader angry as all hell smash down a wall with his fistst in pursuit of Kenobi!? Unhinged & witnessed by some/all of the inquistors??!

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frozen

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#20 frozen  Moderator

@kgb725 said:
@frozen said:
@ready_4_madness said:

Not really a fan of the prequel fights

That's fine but the sequel duels sucked big time. Its about time we see lightsaber duels that actually look skilled, rather than the sequel duels which looked like children hitting their lightsaber toys together.

Big fan of the twirls and flips ?

Well the prequels are undoubtedly better than the sequel trilogy duels.

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AKZ

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Nice

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lazerbeak

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Sounds cool

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commanderxeon

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As much I despise this continuity and story breaking Obi-Wan VS. Vader fight between Ep III & IV, I'm very interested in seeing how good (or bad) the choreography is. I think that the lightsaber duels in Disney Star Wars have been severely lacking, and I hope this show will change that.

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the_jobber2022

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vader loses to obi wan lmao

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SpongeGar

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Good, I really hate the sequel fights

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citgo

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Lit

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frozen

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#27 frozen  Moderator
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Mike_Fowler

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Eh, hope it doesn’t feel overindulgent like I found a good amount of live action prequel fights to be

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SamJackson

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Good, I really hate the sequel fights

Out of the many things I dislike about the ST, the fight choreography is definitely up there by the top. Seeing Vader v Obi Wan with decent choreography is going to be dope.

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frozen

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#31 frozen  Moderator

@spongegar said:

Good, I really hate the sequel fights

Out of the many things I dislike about the ST, the fight choreography is definitely up there by the top. Seeing Vader v Obi Wan with decent choreography is going to be dope.

Force Unleahsed style Vader incoming.

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Randomidk

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I don't want to see Vader v Obi Wan again. It will be the second coming of ROS.

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buildhare

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Interestingly Hayden seems to imply that age is the reason he will fight faster. He seems to be implying thar Vader worsened over time? And that OT Vader is a worse duelist than 10bby Vader.

Gonna be really awesome to see the Vader>Anakin thing from comics thrown out in a five minute fight, can't wait.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#34  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

i’m now of the belief that vader from obi wan and beyond that time period doesn’t improve much and is simply in his prime from that series on. because we now have 2 quotes of 3 different time periods (obi wan, rebels, and ROTJ) being his canonical prime so the only way to make sense of it is for vader to simply have been in his prime for a long stretch of time since we can’t pick and choose which quotes are canon.

both obi wan and ahsoka are going to heavily benefit from the scaling that comes from the show i believe.

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nassergrant19

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#35  Edited By nassergrant19  Online

@emmafrostxmen:

i’m now of the belief that vader from obi wan and beyond that time period doesn’t improve much and is simply in his prime from that series on.

If you read the comics you’ll see he gets much more powerful and goes through trials to do it.

because we now have 2 quotes of 3 different time periods (obi wan

Actor statements aren’t canon.

rebels,

Hidalgo was referring emotionally as many have pointed out in the full context of the video quote.

and ROTJ)

Yup ROTJ is prime proven through feats and IN STORY canon statements.

being his canonical prime so the only way to make sense of it is for vader to simply have been in his prime for a long stretch of time since we can’t pick and choose which quotes are canon.

There‘s a standard. In story statements are canon while others aren’t.

both obi wan and ahsoka are going to heavily benefit from the scaling that comes from the show i believe.

Huh? How so? All I know is Kenobi might be above the ROTS Titans by the end of the show from what I heard lol.

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SpongeGar

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@spongegar said:

Good, I really hate the sequel fights

Out of the many things I dislike about the ST, the fight choreography is definitely up there by the top. Seeing Vader v Obi Wan with decent choreography is going to be dope.

agreed

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#38  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@nassergrant19: fair enough about all of that. star wars contradicts itself very often.

ahsoka will benefit from scaling even more than obi wan. from what you are saying vader gets more powerful progressively so through that logic rebels vader is > obi wan vader. in turn ahsoka fought an amped rebels vader immediately after fighting maul. so malachor rebeks vader > rebels vader > obi wan vader. so unless obi wan stomps vader in the show (he’s not going to according to how much they hyped this fight) then ahsoka’s feat of fighting vader for nearly two minutes without getting outskilled or rag dolled is more impressive for sure. it’s simply a more experienced and more powerful vader that she faced and canonically challenged. that was also pre prime ahsoka by over a decade at that point.

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nassergrant19

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#39 nassergrant19  Online

@nassergrant19: fair enough about all of that. star wars contradicts itself very often.

ahsoka will benefit from scaling even more than obi wan. from what you are saying vader gets more powerful progressively so through that logic rebels vader is > obi wan vader. in turn ahsoka fought an amped rebels vader immediately after fighting maul. so malachor rebeks vader > rebels vader > obi wan vader. so unless obi wan stomps vader in the show (he’s not going to according to how much they hyped this fight) then ahsoka’s feat of fighting vader for nearly two minutes without getting outskilled or rag dolled is more impressive for sure. it’s simply a more experienced and more powerful vader that she faced and canonically challenged. that was also pre prime ahsoka by over a decade at that point.

Thing is Ahsoka was never portrayed as an equal to Vader while in this show Kenobi likely will which will give him busted scaling. Probably Yoda level or higher as crazy as it sounds.

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MyGod000

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@frozen said:

From new interview with Hayden Christensen

“Is Darth’s fighting style more in line with the prequels or the slower dancing in the sequels? We’re more in line with the prequels than we are with how the fights are in the original trilogy. These characters have aged, but not that much yet,” he explained.

So Vader will be fighting at a speed more in alignment with the prequels. Interestingly Hayden seems to imply that age is the reason he will fight faster. He seems to be implying thar Vader worsened over time? And that OT Vader is a worse duelist than 10bby Vader.

Here he says Kenobi series Vader is prime:

“The actor also revealed that fans should expect a version of Darth Vader “in his prime.” “He is 100% a fully realised Vader…”

Interesting stuff. Thoughts?

Interesting so Vader 10 years after ROTS is prime and fully realized Vader?

over time he got sluggish duelist and weaker. This is 5 years after LOTS where They Claimed Vader surpassed ROTS Anakin. Pre-Suit Vader just needed to survive 5 years without Getting Injured to reach his full potential...since the injury Stunted his potential.

If they are saying this than it is confirmed 10 years after ROTS suit Vader Reaches his best...since Rebels take place 4 years after this also proves he was closer to his prime in rebels than in a new Hope.

All this really shows me is that If Vader never been injured it wouldn't have taken him long to fully overtake Sidious in power and surpass him. This also shows why Sidious put down The light saber since he was already pushing 70.

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#41 frozen  Moderator

@mygod000: ANH Vader is confirmed above Rebels. There is no real reason for ANH to be below Rebels. ANH is a mere 2 years after Rebels.

Hayden isn't WoG, he is just an actor. However if you take his opinion at face value then 10bby Vader is > Rebels Vader.

I already think KFV was above Sidious. If he never got injured he would have killed Sidious shortly after ROTS imo.

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SonOfDarkness

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#43  Edited By frozen  Moderator
@sonofdarkness said:

@nassergrant19: what canon statements say ROTJ is prime Vader?

This canon figurine description - https://en.kotobukiya.co.jp/product/product-0000001288/

There is also a canon RPG book which says his powers grew stronger over time.

If Hayden's words become canonised by the show runner then this could be pretty bad for sequel trilogy characters, because it might mean that choreography speed = skill.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#44  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@nassergrant19: ahsoka was portrayed as roughly on par with amp vader. the one she fought is confirmed to be amped 3 times over (one of which is a literal statement in the episodes dialogue which is the highest form of canon) and is more experienced and skilled than the vader kenobi is going to fight. if kenobi equals a non amped weaker vader his feat is automatically less impressive. the only way for his feat to be better is for him to win against vader low-mid difficulty which he’s not going to. that is also pre prime ahsoka through experience scaling and intent based on her physical prime. by the time of mando and BOBF ahsoka should be roughly equal to if not above malachor vader once again through scaling off of her previous performance. i’m sure people are going to act like kenobi’s feat is better, but looking at it realistically the vader ahsoka is confirmed to have been a challenge to (a challenge means high difficulty fight) is >> the vader kenobi will be fighting.

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MyGod000

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@frozen said:

@mygod000: ANH Vader is confirmed above Rebels. There is no real reason for ANH to be below Rebels. ANH is a mere 2 years after Rebels.

Hayden isn't WoG, he is just an actor. However if you take his opinion at face value then 10bby Vader is > Rebels Vader.

I already think KFV was above Sidious. If he never got injured he would have killed Sidious shortly after ROTS imo.

Maybe in the force but does being above someone in the force=Being above them in Light saber duel? Some things contradict it Like Mace beating Sidious in Light saber duel but still being weaker than Yoda, who is Were in the force than Sidious.

Not saying Hayden is WOG...but he is working closely with writers so he should have some insight.

I also believe that as well about KFV he even said He was more powerful than Sidious right after seeing him unleash unlimited power on Mace. Clearly Vader wasn't stupid, the only reason why he didn't was because he needed him to help him save his wife. The moment she survived past Child birth and was in the clear would have been the moment Anakin would have killed Sidious but until that time in his Mind he needed him.

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frozen

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#46 frozen  Moderator

@mygod000: If a writer of the series comes out with a similar statement then I'll consider changing my views. Its definitely food for thought. The only issue is we might end up with choreography being the way to judge saber skill, and that leads to awkward issues -- such as the fact that Mace v Sidious is slower than Luke v Vader in ROTJ or Jinn vs Maul in TPM.

I would back KFV over ROTS Sidious in Disney's canon. After prime Luke, I'd say pre suit Vader is the best lightsaber duelist. However suit Vader may be above pre suit Vader in duelling once this series is released. Force wise, suit Vader is definitely ahead of pre suit Vader.

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MyGod000

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@nassergrant19: ahsoka was portrayed as roughly on par with amp vader. the one she fought is confirmed to be amped 3 times over (one of which is a literal statement in the episodes dialogue which is the highest form of canon) and is more experienced and skilled than the vader kenobi is going to fight. if kenobi equals a non amped weaker vader his feat is automatically less impressive. the only way for his feat to be better is for him to win against vader low-mid difficulty which he’s not going to. that is also pre prime ahsoka through experience scaling and intent based on her physical prime. by the time of mando and BOBF ahsoka should be roughly equal to if not above malachor vader once again through scaling off of her previous performance. i’m sure people are going to act like kenobi’s feat is better, but looking at it realistically the vader ahsoka is confirmed to have been a challenge to (a challenge means high difficulty fight) is >> the vader kenobi will be fighting.

What...How is she suppose to be Roughly equal to him? If there is a statement where it's confirmed she is equal to that Vader than fine there is no argument against it... It was implied Maul at that time was still above Ahsoka...and Maul admitted he couldn't beat Vader and needs everyone of their help to win.

As for Mando she got disarmed by Thrawn's grunts. using Scaling you have to assume her power growth Stayed consistent there is just no evidence of that to say where she ranks power wise.

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MyGod000

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@frozen said:

@mygod000: If a writer of the series comes out with a similar statement then I'll consider changing my views. Its definitely food for thought. The only issue is we might end up with choreography being the way to judge saber skill, and that leads to awkward issues -- such as the fact that Mace v Sidious is slower than Luke v Vader in ROTJ or Jinn vs Maul in TPM.

I would back KFV over ROTS Sidious in Disney's canon. After prime Luke, I'd say pre suit Vader is the best lightsaber duelist. However suit Vader may be above pre suit Vader in duelling once this series is released. Force wise, suit Vader is definitely ahead of pre suit Vader.

I agree and it is food for thought.

I have no issue with Suit Vader being Better in the force than Pre-Suit Vader. As for Luke there are inconsistent statements about him on the one hand he did Match Vader in the force and in the dueling....but then we have Dave coming out saying Luke would get defeated by any of the Jedi on the council then a book saying Luke skills was below Obi-wan.

i don't know how much better prime Luke is all i know is that he is confirmed>ROTJ Luke.

I agree i don't see anyone Better at light saber dueling than Pre-Suit Vader.

I still have Anakin force potential As the highest potential of any mortal in Star wars.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@mygod000: 1) she was stated to be a master by the time of mando which implies she grew in pretty much every way. spiritually, intellectually, and skillfully she scales to be a bit above her rebels self at least, and also just when taking into account rebels is prior to her species physical prime.

2) there is no statement she was equal to vader. however there is a statement that says she challenged him and gave him a hard fight. this was while he was amped in universe (confirmed 3 separate times). therefore logically they are roughly on par without taking into account vader’s amp.

3) maul was implied to be slightly above ahsoka on malachor only where he was canonically amped. tcw season 7 is confirmed to be maul’s prime and tcw ahsoka is confirmed to have matched him and fought “on his level”.

4) the magistrate wasn’t a “grunt”……she was stated to be exceptionally skilled, and ahsoka held back against her and didn’t utilize the force at all. vader just recently had difficulty with qi’ra for the same reason. it’s even backed up by ahsoka borderline stomping her once she got serious despite not having 1 of her 2 lightsabers which is essential to her typical fighting style.

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frozen

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#50 frozen  Moderator

@mygod000:

I have no issue with Suit Vader being Better in the force than Pre-Suit Vader. As for Luke there are inconsistent statements about him on the one hand he did Match Vader in the force and in the dueling....but then we have Dave coming out saying Luke would get defeated by any of the Jedi on the council then a book saying Luke skills was below Obi-wan.

Filoni's statement on Luke was a random creator statement, it isn't considered canon. Its also contradicted by canon materials. There's a new Grandmaster Luke novel coming out next month, which is called Shadows of The Sith and it takes place 25 years post ROTJ. The excerpt from the novel states that Luke is much more powerful than he was in ROTJ and that his saber skill had greatly increased. We also have TROS Sidious stating that post prime TLJ Luke rivalled him power wise. It would be a bit strange if Luke a full 25 years after ROTJ hadn't surpassed Anakin in duelling, IMO.

I still have Anakin force potential As the highest potential of any mortal in Star wars.

Indeed.