Is there a limit to Ainz's instant death spells?

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GXrevs06

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#1  Edited By GXrevs06

Spells such as The goal of all life is death with Cry of the Banshee and Grasp heart. Because they just seem like a no limits fallacy to me. Can Ains one shot characters like the Anti-Monitor, Galactus and Beerus with "Cry of the Banshee" boosted by TGOALIS? Where do we draw the line?

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universeichigo1

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Depends on who he uses it on.

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kyrees

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#3  Edited By kyrees

undead are already immune to instant death spells and higher level beings than ainz are only flinched by grasp heart. TGOALIS might amplify that effect but i doubt it works on planetary class beings and above.

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Godren

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#4  Edited By Godren

It's not a NLF, just show some god damn feats of the opponent resisting death manipulation.

Or having a way to ignore it via resurrection and a variety of other hax.

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Gokluma

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Black lanterns can ignored it since it's already dead

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GXrevs06

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#6  Edited By GXrevs06

@godren said:

It's not a NLF, just show some god damn feats of the opponent resisting death manipulation.

Or having a way to ignore it via resurrection and a variety of other hax.

But Beerus, for example, does not have those feats. There are a lot of universal characters that don't have these specific hax resistances. That is why I pose this question in the first place.Do we assume that Ains hax would work on even the strongest characters waaay above his level?

@kyrees said:

undead are already immune to instant death spells and higher level beings than ainz are only flinched by grasp heart. TGOALIS might amplify that effect but i doubt it works on planetary class beings and above.

The point of TGOALISD is that it allows Ains to bypasses this immunity. That is how he was able to kill Shaltear, who otherwise has complete immunity to instant death spells

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kyrees

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#7  Edited By kyrees

@gxrevs06 said:

@kyrees said:

undead are already immune to instant death spells and higher level beings than ainz are only flinched by grasp heart. TGOALIS might amplify that effect but i doubt it works on planetary class beings and above.

The point of TGOALISD is that it allows Ains to bypasses this immunity. That is how he was able to kill Shaltear, who otherwise has complete immunity to instant death spells

in overlord, higher levels bypasses immunity as shown when a boosted chain lightning was used to destroy two bone dragons, creatures with a relevant magic immunity below that spell's level. TGOALID is an extremely high rank spell in overlord but it's overall effects has only shown to be capable to taking down a special kind of vampire that is only supposedly immune to death spells below her level. also given ainz is quite a "middle level" kind of player in their old server, i doubt that TGOALID is that quite of formidable power against "high level" kind of players should they actually appear in the new world.

if we relate this outside overlord, i would assume this kind of power would effectively work on beings that have shown a similar power level to ainz or shaltear. the higher the power output, the less likely it will not work accordingly given ainz's rankings in their old server as welll. non showings don't necessarily mean they can't take since it can be construed that they can take given the how neutral non showings are.

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deactivated-5be9a9d48ee87

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No, he can one-shot TOAA

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Vincentofdoof

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@kyrees:

@kyrees said:

undead are already immune to instant death spells and higher level beings than Ainz are only flinched by grasp heart. TGOALID might amplify that effect but i doubt it works on planetary class beings and above.

The underlined I disagree, for example, Saitama (depends if you take planet busting or life) he is literally just physicals, would you say that Saitama is resistant or immune to Ainz death hax? You can't even argue about overlord's tiering since most examples of characters resisting death hax in the overlord setting is by racial traits (undead) or items, so there's no real evidence that players had immunity or resistance to death spells by just being higher level. The fact that players need to find specific countermeasures against time spells is even more evidence that not all spell types are in this general immunity. Now I won't say that this means that Ainz kills universal beings lol, its just this should be a case by case thing. I don't know why people focus so hard on biggatons when debating hax abilities, it's like asking who's the strongest being character A has transmuted and then saying that since Character B can punch out mountains then their physical body will auto resist. < this is literally giving new resistances or abilities to other characters because of biggatons.

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kyrees

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#10  Edited By kyrees

@vincentofdoof said:

The underlined I disagree, for example, Saitama (depends if you take planet busting or life) he is literally just physicals, would you say that Saitama is resistant or immune to Ainz death hax? You can't even argue about overlord's tiering since most examples of characters resisting death hax in the overlord setting is by racial traits (undead) or items, so there's no real evidence that players had immunity or resistance to death spells by just being higher level. The fact that players need to find specific countermeasures against time spells is even more evidence that not all spell types are in this general immunity. Now I won't say that this means that Ainz kills universal beings lol, its just this should be a case by case thing. I don't know why people focus so hard on biggatons when debating hax abilities, it's like asking who's the strongest being character A has transmuted and then saying that since Character B can punch out mountains then their physical body will auto resist. < this is literally giving new resistances or abilities to other characters because of biggatons.

two arguments:

1. ainz ranks himself in the yggdrasil accordingly: without his divine items, he puts himself in the middle ranks. with his items, he puts himself in middle of the upper ranks. furthermore, he's the kind of player that mostly needs to forfeit the first fight in order to ascertain what his enemies are capable of. if grasp heart or his other techs was really that effective in yggdrasil, he should have ranked himself better. in the new world where the average level is simply below him or his guild, he becomes quite a monster to a point that his techs that would have been not that effective before are now much more potent accordingly adding the fact that instant death spells used by ainz has only affected beings that are significantly lower than him.

2. power to destroy massive areas instantly has a somewhat shaky relevance on how they are that tough. it's a sketchy comparison but people who can deal such massive amounts of damage have internal structures that are at least capable of enduring the stress of such power unleashed in a second or so. that can translate accordingly in them having at least a partial counter argument on certain abilities.

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Vincentofdoof

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@kyrees said:
@vincentofdoof said:

The underlined I disagree, for example, Saitama (depends if you take planet busting or life) he is literally just physicals, would you say that Saitama is resistant or immune to Ainz death hax? You can't even argue about overlord's tiering since most examples of characters resisting death hax in the overlord setting is by racial traits (undead) or items, so there's no real evidence that players had immunity or resistance to death spells by just being higher level. The fact that players need to find specific countermeasures against time spells is even more evidence that not all spell types are in this general immunity. Now I won't say that this means that Ainz kills universal beings lol, its just this should be a case by case thing. I don't know why people focus so hard on biggatons when debating hax abilities, it's like asking who's the strongest being character A has transmuted and then saying that since Character B can punch out mountains then their physical body will auto resist. < this is literally giving new resistances or abilities to other characters because of biggatons.

two arguments:

1. ainz ranks himself in the yggdrasil accordingly: without his divine items, he puts himself in the middle ranks. with his items, he puts himself in middle of the upper ranks. furthermore, he's the kind of player that mostly needs to forfeit the first fight in order to ascertain what his enemies are capable of. if grasp heart or his other techs was really that effective in yggdrasil, he should have ranked himself better. in the new world where the average level is simply below him or his guild, he becomes quite a monster to a point that his techs that would have been not that effective before are now much more potent accordingly adding the fact that instant death spells used by ainz has only affected beings that are significantly lower than him.

2. power to destroy massive areas instantly has a somewhat shaky relevance on how they are that tough. it's a sketchy comparison but people who can deal such massive amounts of damage have internal structures that are at least capable of enduring the stress of such power unleashed in a second or so. that can translate accordingly in them having at least a partial counter argument on certain abilities.

1. Now I never disagree that Ainz's death spells aren't effective against upper tier players, after all he is an RP build, I argued that instant death spells aren't negated by level difference, but pvp players having specific countermeasures against them such as racial traits, items, ect. Like how it is for time spells, requiring specific items or countermeasures by lvl 70.

2. While yes I could agree to an extent that a character capable to devastate massive areas should have resistances to things such as heat, friction, or blunt attacks. But that's hardly relevant when I was specifically talking about hax abilities that don't care about the physical condition of the opponent like transmutation or teleportation or death hax. I can see a character like Saitama resisting grasp heart due to having a strong body (unless you believe that grasp heart also induces an instant death effect in addition to popping the heart), but to argue that he can resist the spell [Death] because of his biggatons is just giving him resistances or abilities that he logically shouldn't have.

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kyrees

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#12  Edited By kyrees

@vincentofdoof said:

1. Now I never disagree that Ainz's death spells aren't effective against upper tier players, after all he is an RP build, I argued that instant death spells aren't negated by level difference, but pvp players having specific countermeasures against them such as racial traits, items, ect. Like how it is for time spells, requiring specific items or countermeasures by lvl 70.

2. While yes I could agree to an extent that a character capable to devastate massive areas should have resistances to things such as heat, friction, or blunt attacks. But that's hardly relevant when I was specifically talking about hax abilities that don't care about the physical condition of the opponent like transmutation or teleportation or death hax. I can see a character like Saitama resisting grasp heart due to having a strong body (unless you believe that grasp heart also induces an instant death effect in addition to popping the heart), but to argue that he can resist the spell [Death] because of his biggatons is just giving him resistances or abilities that he logically shouldn't have.

1. the ranking of ainz without divine items says a different story and in such a large world like yggdrasil, there would have been a lot more factors to it than specific countermeasures.

2. that's the only way we can argue for character with no showings to such things unless you can accept the scenario that no showing = no resistance. that's even less logical.

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nadhim

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Good argument. "la dee da for Ainz, he can stop time for Overlord people. That means literally nothing when he's up against someone from another setting." Repeat for every abilities any character has.

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Shinne

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I assume it requires soul manipulation resistance to counter death spells in general.

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Gokluma

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What happens if it was used on the guys like Doomsday and Fury from marvel?

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Vincentofdoof

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#17  Edited By Vincentofdoof

@kyrees:

@kyrees said:
@vincentofdoof said:

1. Now I never disagree that Ainz's death spells aren't effective against upper tier players, after all he is an RP build, I argued that instant death spells aren't negated by level difference, but pvp players having specific countermeasures against them such as racial traits, items, ect. Like how it is for time spells, requiring specific items or countermeasures by lvl 70.

2. While yes I could agree to an extent that a character capable to devastate massive areas should have resistances to things such as heat, friction, or blunt attacks. But that's hardly relevant when I was specifically talking about hax abilities that don't care about the physical condition of the opponent like transmutation or teleportation or death hax. I can see a character like Saitama resisting grasp heart due to having a strong body (unless you believe that grasp heart also induces an instant death effect in addition to popping the heart), but to argue that he can resist the spell [Death] because of his biggatons is just giving him resistances or abilities that he logically shouldn't have.

1. the ranking of ainz without divine items says a different story and in such a large world like yggdrasil, there would have been a lot more factors to it than specific countermeasures.

2. that's the only way we can argue for a character with no showings to such things unless you can accept the scenario that no showing = no resistance. that's even less logical.

1. I do agree that there would be different factors than specific countermeasures, but I still disagree that level difference is one of them. At least for most of the 6th tier death spells and above.

2. I do agree in certain cases that no showings = no resistance, like having no showings for time resistance, or teleporting shenanigans, or transmuting, or being aged to dust = no resistance. Hax ability is an eehhh thin line in debating, certain hax could easily lead to NLF claims, like Ainz death spells, but I disagree to giving characters like Madara or Saitama resistance to such things just because of stat difference. I agree that a certain difference in stats does lead to negging death hax, but it needs to be a MASSIVE difference. Again, I don't like giving characters new resistance just because of a stat difference unless its logical ones like a character able to bust a moon with a punch, therefore, they must have a high resistance to blunt or kinetic shit. I mean we can automatically assume undead or immortal characters have immunity to Ainz death hax, as that's in verse limit.

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kyrees

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@vincentofdoof:

how do you define massive though ? ainz's world isn't really flashy with massive AOE damage and focuses more on what i call resistances that tend to be more "isolated"

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#19  Edited By Vincentofdoof

@kyrees: See that's what I mean, hax cannot be assumed to work like flashy AOE attacks like say a punch able to crack continents. When debating DC, all you need is the highest durability feat from the characters being debated, however with hax, it is different depending on how that hax works. For death hax, it requires different criteria, for example, has the character shown any resistance to instant death effects? Well If not, have they shown any magic resistance? If so on what scale? Or how about if the character already shown to be immortal or resisted soul type attacks? and again on what scale?

It really depends on the character that's being debated against Ainz, characters like Saitama, which are essentially just physical bricks, I think would be fair to say that Ainz hax almost always will work on. Its the same way for time hax, would you really argue that a character could resist a time stop or being aged to dust because they are shown to be physically above the character marginally?

To answer your question, I would say the character has to be above planet busting (however there are a large number of planet busters who could resist Ainz death hax, or hell there are plenty of characters way way way below planet busting that could resist Ainz death hax. Again it depends on the character) however I would argue that star busters could still be affected depending on the character.

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kyrees

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@kyrees: See that's what I mean, hax cannot be assumed to work like flashy AOE attacks like say a punch able to crack continents. When debating DC, all you need is the highest durability feat from the characters being debated, however with hax, it is different depending on how that hax works. For death hax, it requires different criteria, for example, has the character shown any resistance to instant death effects? Well If not, have they shown any magic resistance? If so on what scale? Or how about if the character already shown to be immortal or resisted soul type attacks? and again on what scale?

It really depends on the character that's being debated against Ainz, characters like Saitama, which are essentially just physical bricks, I think would be fair to say that Ainz hax almost always will work on. Its the same way for time hax, would you really argue that a character could resist a time stop or being aged to dust because they are shown to be physically above the character marginally?

To answer your question, I would say the character has to be above planet busting (however there are a large number of planet busters who could resist Ainz death hax, or hell there are plenty of characters way way way below planet busting that could resist Ainz death hax. Again it depends on the character) however I would argue that star busters could still be affected depending on the character.

i asked you that question because i expected something else and here i am seeing the same thing i argued earlier only now you just made certain markpoints on where or how it should be debated. essentially nothing changed with what you said compared to mine.

you just reworded it accordingly.