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#1 Edited by StrongTower7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

I get it. Superman is Superman. Shazam is not Superman. But I can't help think that Shazam would make more sense to me as a "Superman" rather than just yellow sun radiation and then, "ta-da" you are a pretty much a god. Anyway, just my personal opinion.

Would it make sense to y'all for Shazam to beat Superman in a full-blown fight, both giving it their last drop of effort, fair and square? If so, how many times out of 10?

?/10 for both New 52 versions

?/10 for both Pre-New 52 versions

(I'm more of a Marvel guy btw) All opinions greatly appreciated!!

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#2 Posted by BabyDarkseid (719 posts) - - Show Bio

superman is the strongest hero in all of dc and comics in general but shazam is in the top 10 strongest dc heroes for sure

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#3 Posted by Yarva (2644 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. He is.

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#4 Posted by BruceRogers (10099 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes he is.

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#5 Posted by Naamah_Obyzouth (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins 8/10. I think Shazam could pull off at least 1 or 2 hard fought wins, but it would take everything he has and Clark would have to fight sloppy and make some mistakes.

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#6 Posted by MightyKalEl (1110 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, he is.

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#7 Edited by tj849 (1246 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup

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#8 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (1595 posts) - - Show Bio

He is stronger than New 52 Shazam, but they are equals in Pre-52.

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#9 Edited by Eto (3075 posts) - - Show Bio

I think so

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#10 Posted by Solid_Snake97 (8332 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people take Shazam's powers too literally. Strength of Hercules you say? Well then clearly he's stronger than DC's Hercules and could beat Supes/WW with no difficulty.

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#11 Posted by nervesal (50 posts) - - Show Bio

superman much better in term of combat

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#12 Posted by lvenger (32778 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I'd have no problem with Captain Marvel being an equal to Superman. He'd be a worthy equal if done right but the truth is he hasn't been an equal to Superman since the Pre Crisis days. Whether it's because DC don't know what to do with him, haven't given him a solo series or because Superman is more popular, Captain Marvel just isn't equal to Superman in strength, speed and power. Despite some statements in stories like Kingdom Come or Action Comics #768, Superman has done things Captain Marvel has not.

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#13 Posted by KrleAvenger (23066 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid: Superman is not the strongest hero in DC, even less in all of comics. Not even close.

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#14 Edited by agent41 (11509 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people take Shazam's powers too literally. Strength of Hercules you say? Well then clearly he's stronger than DC's Hercules and could beat Supes/WW with no difficulty.

Unless i'm missing something. SM and WW are stronger than DC hercules too. In WW's case. Her intro for many decades was. "Stronger than hercules, faster than hermes". And she out did those 2 in the comics more than once.

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#15 Posted by All-Father (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

He is stronger than New 52 Shazam, but they are equals in Pre-52.

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#16 Edited by MAZAHS117 (9340 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on what version we're talking here. Pre-Crisis I'd say they are equals as they have similar feats. Post-Crisis I'd say they are close, but Superman has the advantage because he just has more appearances and better feats to pull from than Cap. Post-Flashpoint/New52 is not even close as Cap ..err excuse me "Shazam" ..has done pretty much nothing in comparison to New52 Superman. Post-Rebirth I don't even think "Shazam"' has even made an appearance lol.

Just based on feats i'd say Post-Crisis Superman would have the close majority over Post-Crisis Cap 6/10. New52 Superman would have the landslide majority over New52 Cap/Shazam 8-9/10, just because of the lack of feats for Shazam. Earth-22/Kingdom Come Captain Marvel went toe-to-toe with that Earths Superman and beat him or at least was winning imo.

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#17 Posted by BabyDarkseid (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid: Superman is not the strongest hero in DC, even less in all of comics. Not even close.

whos stronger than superman?

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#18 Posted by ChildoftheAtom (800 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: I would say baring some well made plot devices(that as the hero he should overcome) superman has shown limitless strength, speed and durability when he feels like it. Whenever someone brings up all our fights you gotta go with superman.

given within mainstream D.C. Or marvel. Fighters outside of these universes may well be populated by godlike beings.

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#19 Posted by KrleAvenger (23066 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid said:

@krleavenger said:

@babydarkseid: Superman is not the strongest hero in DC, even less in all of comics. Not even close.

whos stronger than superman?

Are we talking about pure power alone? There are too many characters to name. If we are talking about pure physical strength, Mister Majestic comes to mind.

@krleavenger: I would say baring some well made plot devices(that as the hero he should overcome) superman has shown limitless strength, speed and durability when he feels like it. Whenever someone brings up all our fights you gotta go with superman.

given within mainstream D.C. Or marvel. Fighters outside of these universes may well be populated by godlike beings.

Come now, don't go with that Death Battle logic. Superman is not limitless at anything aside from how much solar energy he can store in his body, and that is irrelevant since he is always absorbing the same amount radiation per moment according to Batman. Superman is not even the most powerful her on DC Earth, even less all of comics. He doesn't have limitless strength, since he was overpowered and defeated by a lot of characters numerous times. He doesn't have limitless speed since there are a lot of characters who can make him look slow in comparison, like Barry Allen, Wally West, Eobard Thawne, Hunter Zolomon, just to name a few. His durability is not limitless either. There are countless instances when he was KO'd, hurt, damaged, flat out stomped or even almost killed.

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#20 Posted by slimj87d (13524 posts) - - Show Bio

He's supposed to be according to every bio you read of his BUT DC mistreats Billy Batson. They treat him like a child in an adults body with 0 wisdom of the Gods at all.

They practically bought Captain Marvel back in the day to avoid competition and a lawsuit iirc.

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#21 Posted by FC_Tsukihanami (339 posts) - - Show Bio

Billy should be as strong as Superman especially with his new powers but DC doesn't really care about him despite the fact that he's still pretty popular and getting a movie.

I mean freaking Killer Frost got a a solo Rebirth comic before Shazam. This isn't right.

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#22 Posted by StrongTower7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

Billy should be as strong as Superman especially with his new powers but DC doesn't really care about him despite the fact that he's still pretty popular and getting a movie.

I mean freaking Killer Frost got a a solo Rebirth comic before Shazam. This isn't right.

Word.

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#23 Posted by BabyDarkseid (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid said:

@krleavenger said:

@babydarkseid: Superman is not the strongest hero in DC, even less in all of comics. Not even close.

whos stronger than superman?

Are we talking about pure power alone? There are too many characters to name. If we are talking about pure physical strength, Mister Majestic comes to mind.

@childoftheatom said:

@krleavenger: I would say baring some well made plot devices(that as the hero he should overcome) superman has shown limitless strength, speed and durability when he feels like it. Whenever someone brings up all our fights you gotta go with superman.

given within mainstream D.C. Or marvel. Fighters outside of these universes may well be populated by godlike beings.

Come now, don't go with that Death Battle logic. Superman is not limitless at anything aside from how much solar energy he can store in his body, and that is irrelevant since he is always absorbing the same amount radiation per moment according to Batman. Superman is not even the most powerful her on DC Earth, even less all of comics. He doesn't have limitless strength, since he was overpowered and defeated by a lot of characters numerous times. He doesn't have limitless speed since there are a lot of characters who can make him look slow in comparison, like Barry Allen, Wally West, Eobard Thawne, Hunter Zolomon, just to name a few. His durability is not limitless either. There are countless instances when he was KO'd, hurt, damaged, flat out stomped or even almost killed.

obviously im talking about pure physical strength since that was the original op and mister majestic isnt as strong as superman but hes top 10

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#24 Edited by KrleAvenger (23066 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid: Mr. Majestic IS stronger than Superman. His feats are more impressive. He was moving planetary bodies across solar systems, casually, while Superman struggled to even move planets and moons.

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#25 Posted by BabyDarkseid (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid: Mr. Majestic IS stronger than Superman. His feats are more impressive. He was moving planetary bodies across solar systems, casually, while Superman struggled to even move planets and moons.

show me some recent feats of majestic moving planets

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#26 Edited by KrleAvenger (23066 posts) - - Show Bio

@babydarkseid: I don't have his feats saved, and the site I'm using to grab scans is down at the moment. I won't be able to post anything now. I will come back later when I find those scans.

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#27 Posted by APEX_pretador (12798 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Nick1994 (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

In terms of physical stats, Captain Marvel and Superman are on par with each other, it's been proven in fights, Superman himself has said they're equals; twice, and even in the DC Encyclopedia it's states they're on par with each other.

And the argument that Superman is stronger than Cap because Superman has better overall feats is flawed logic, because if overall individual feats>direct confrontations, than Superman is stronger than Doomsday and Orion.

Hell, even characters like Blue Marvel and Gladiator would be stronger than Doomsday and Orion, since they have greater overall strength feats than those two.

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#29 Posted by Nick1994 (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Honestly I'd have no problem with Captain Marvel being an equal to Superman. He'd be a worthy equal if done right but the truth is he hasn't been an equal to Superman since the Pre Crisis days. Whether it's because DC don't know what to do with him, haven't given him a solo series or because Superman is more popular, Captain Marvel just isn't equal to Superman in strength, speed and power. Despite some statements in stories like Kingdom Come or Action Comics #768, Superman has done things Captain Marvel has not.

And Gladiator and Blue Marvel have done things Doomsday and Orion haven't.

If we go by your logic that overall feats>direct confrontations than Glads and BM are stronger than Doomsday and Orion.

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#30 Posted by Rockette (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

@fc_tsukihanami said:

Billy should be as strong as Superman especially with his new powers but DC doesn't really care about him despite the fact that he's still pretty popular and getting a movie.

I mean freaking Killer Frost got a a solo Rebirth comic before Shazam. This isn't right.

Word.

Right?!

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#31 Edited by boombox (59 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh... imo Shazam should beat superman. They havr equal strengths after all... although I don't understand supes's vulnerability to magic. They say he's vulnerable to magic but still gives black Adam a decent fight -.-

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#32 Posted by Batvibe12 (1372 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

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#33 Posted by Thordinson (342 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes he is by better and more consistent feats.

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#34 Posted by passingthroughv2 (577 posts) - - Show Bio

@fc_tsukihanami said:

Billy should be as strong as Superman especially with his new powers but DC doesn't really care about him despite the fact that he's still pretty popular and getting a movie.

I mean freaking Killer Frost got a a solo Rebirth comic before Shazam. This isn't right.

Word.

QFT

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#35 Posted by Druzzie (319 posts) - - Show Bio

I always felt Shazam was the hard counter to Superman thanks in part to Kingdom Come.

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#36 Posted by Charan_ (179 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Clark is stronger.

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#37 Posted by Major_Hellstorm (9081 posts) - - Show Bio

N52? Heck no, Billy is basically featless.

Pre-52? Maybe, it is heavily implied and Billy has the feats but I think Supes is still slightly stronger.

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#38 Posted by Supermanforever (2220 posts) - - Show Bio

Aside from goldeb age. Superman stomps. Golden age they might be equal at times.

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#39 Posted by Guru_Crack (10053 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 I think Shazam would struggle to even win one fight. Pre-52 I have limit knowledge of so no comment.

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#40 Posted by lvenger (32778 posts) - - Show Bio
@nick1994 said:
@lvenger said:

Honestly I'd have no problem with Captain Marvel being an equal to Superman. He'd be a worthy equal if done right but the truth is he hasn't been an equal to Superman since the Pre Crisis days. Whether it's because DC don't know what to do with him, haven't given him a solo series or because Superman is more popular, Captain Marvel just isn't equal to Superman in strength, speed and power. Despite some statements in stories like Kingdom Come or Action Comics #768, Superman has done things Captain Marvel has not.

And Gladiator and Blue Marvel have done things Doomsday and Orion haven't.

If we go by your logic that overall feats>direct confrontations than Glads and BM are stronger than Doomsday and Orion.

Not this fallacious argument again, why do you keep going back to this with my posts on CM? This isn't even strictly a battle thread, I've said I was mistaken to put Power Girl above Captain Marvel and I said I wouldn't mind a Captain Marvel who is actually equal to Superman. But the fact is he hasn't been equal since the Pre Crisis days. You can't keep using the Doomsday/Orion example to undermine this because Orion has done something Billy hasn't physically, namely punch Superman from one country to another in a single blow and Doomsday has physically overpowered Superman, Darkseid and the entire League. That's why my logic works and yours doesn't.

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#41 Posted by TheKinfing (8471 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman 10/10.

Superman 7-8/10.

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#42 Posted by echostarlord117 (4033 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes

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#43 Edited by Nick1994 (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Not this fallacious argument again, why do you keep going back to this with my posts on CM? This isn't even strictly a battle thread, I've said I was mistaken to put Power Girl above Captain Marvel and I said I wouldn't mind a Captain Marvel who is actually equal to Superman. But the fact is he hasn't been equal since the Pre Crisis days. You can't keep using the Doomsday/Orion example to undermine this because Orion has done something Billy hasn't physically, namely punch Superman from one country to another in a single blow and Doomsday has physically overpowered Superman, Darkseid and the entire League. That's why my logic works and yours doesn't.

Orion punched Superman really far, so what, by that logic Major Force is stronger than Black Adam, since BA never punched Superman across three states, but I'm going to assume that you'll say Major Force is stronger than BA.

Also Orion's punch did absolutely no damage to him, and it was when Superman was distracted by Big Barda.

Captain Marvel actually visibly damaged Superman with his strikes; twice, so I could argue that CM is stronger than Orion, but he's not, they're even because they both physically matched Superman in a direct confrontation.

And finally Doomsday beating Superman in a direct confrontation is exactly my point, Doomsday beat Superman in a direct confrontation, and Captain Marvel matched/stalemated him, it's the same concept both instances.

But in the end I doubt you'll grasp how hypocritical you are, or if you even care about how dishonest you're being.

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#44 Posted by ITheManWithoutFearI (4861 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick1994 said:

In terms of physical stats, Captain Marvel and Superman are on par with each other, it's been proven in fights, Superman himself has said they're equals; twice, and even in the DC Encyclopedia it's states they're on par with each other.

And the argument that Superman is stronger than Cap because Superman has better overall feats is flawed logic, because if overall individual feats>direct confrontations, than Superman is stronger than Doomsday and Orion.

Hell, even characters like Blue Marvel and Gladiator would be stronger than Doomsday and Orion, since they have greater overall strength feats than those two.

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#45 Edited by T6 (256 posts) - - Show Bio

Not an expert on either character, but I don't get the previous posts... isn't Superman weak to magic, and doesn't Shazam use magic? I know Shazam mainly does brawling (like Superman), but can't he shoot lightning from his hands? I think the bigger fight would be Superman vs. Black Adam, since Adam has more experience and is an actual "grown up" (although several hundred years old iirc).

But yeah, I am honestly gonna admit I'm a noob when it comes to Shazam and Superman, love both characters though.

EDIT: Forget to do ratings, pre-52 no idea, new 52 superman wins but only because he has sun regen hacks. So what, like 9/10 win? or 1/10 chance he would lose? In a magical arena (where shazam's lightning yell still works), I would give this to shazam.

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#46 Posted by SuperGoku17 (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by KanyeCosby (337 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman by feats is stronger than Billy

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#49 Posted by ArranVidReturns (1177 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Shazam's magical abilities...if he has any...I've forgotten

would they have any effect on Kal-El?

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#50 Posted by Blackstar_95 (258 posts) - - Show Bio

superman is the strongest hero in all of dc and comics in general but shazam is in the top 10 strongest dc heroes for sure

Both statements are false.