Is Kylo Ren a good antagonist?

IMO: I think hes great.

During The Force Awakens I thought he had excellent potential. With the new film I'm not sure what to think. I....liked? His part. I feel that he was done the best out of all the characters in The Last Jedi, but considering my weak opinion on the majority of them that's not hard to do. All in all I think he suffered some due to the overall dragging nature of the plot in the recent film and he, once again, wasn't given a good amount of screen time, compared to how relevant he is to the story. The casino story line really killed the movie for me in retrospect, so much time wasted on a whole lot of nothing.

I guess we'll have to see how he goes with the next film. It's annoying really. They've had 2 whole movies to build him up as a villain and a good chunk of that time was not used like it could have been. Only one shot left, make it count Disney.

Not really. There is no sense of danger with him, and that goes back to him losing to Rey in episode 7. And before anyone starts bringing up the technicalities of said loss, he still loss, and that creates a perception of weakness to the audience who should view him as a threat. Look at other villains. In the Original trilogy, there was always a sense of danger whenever Vader was on screen, same with other series like Game of thrones with the Night King and Ramsay Bolton, or Negan in the Walking Dead. Having Kylo lose to Rey and then be emasculated by Snoke makes him come across as someone trying and failing to be a villain, but they're not cut out for the job. But to the writers' credit, I'm pretty sure that intentional.

Episode 7 I would have say no, but after episode 8 I found him more interesting.

Kylo himself isn't all that great, but Adam is honesty carrying this trilogy as far as I'm concerned.

@rogueshadow: Exactly. When you stack Kylo Ren against the other antagonists of the franchise, he comes across about as threatening as a carebear.

I like Ben as a character, but as a villain, and a potentially main villain at that, absolutely not.

@thatduderox: I like Ben as a character, but as a villain, and a potentially main villain at that, absolutely not.

This, he was better in 8 than 7 I think but no not main baddie. Is still like to see him redeemed somewhat in 9.

He didn't used to be, but he is now.

Yeah, he's quite a rich character, but terrible as a villain. You can have both.

No; the man is barely qualified to be the main villains dragon. POOR. MANS. VADER,

His portrayal in The Force Awakens is one of my favourite movie villains, but they really dropped the ball with him in The Last Jedi.

He's a good character, but not really a remarkable villain.

I don't think he's even suppose to be a villain tbh.

I like him as a character but as a antagonist? Hell no. He is a joke and worst villain in SW movies... maybe besides Snoke lol

He's a whiny bitch.

Nope. I find it tough to even view him as an antagonist really

He has far too many negative things going for him to be considered a good villain.

• First of all, he is crippled right out of the gate by trying to play up to one of the greatest movie villains of all time as his pseudo-successor.
• Secondly, he makes it even worse by initially not even trying to be himself... he wants to be Darth Vader, so he dresses up like him and even gets a voice modulator/breathing mask even if he doesn't need one.
• Then you take his surroundings into account. Vader was at all time surrounded by people who acted like professional soldiers and commanders. Kylo has Hux, who sounds like a ridiculous nazi parrot and who lacks the calm detachment people like Grand Moff Tarkin had and the gonads to talk calmly to the man in black even when he's upset.
• Presence. Very important for a guy who's a central bad guy, and again Vader owned any room he walked into, he entered, all eyes on him even if he didn't do anything at first. Kylo doesn't have that, quite often because he is just moving too fast. Also, when we first were introduced to Star Wars, nearly one of the first things we ever see is Darth Vader emerging from a smoking doorway with his ominous theme playing in the background after the fighting stops, we don't need anything more than seeing that, hearing his labored breathing and the horns in the background to know 'yeah, thats the bad guy' and then he strangles the captain of the ship and we know he is seriously scary. We are never needed to be told Vader is evil and scary, he's already proven that. Both new Star Wars movies have had to tell us repeatedly that Kylo is even more powerful and even scarier, according to people who have never actually seen him in person.
• And that supposed fear factor is completely undermined when we get so many instances of seeing Kylo angrily lashing out at computers, elevators or sitting around moping or otherwise be on the verge of tears. When Kylo is upset, he lashes out and everyone else just gives him a wide berth while he works out his tantrum. When Vader got displeased at anything, as much as he ever did because he didn't show a wide range of emotions, it was usually some knucklehead 5 feet away from him that he simply force-choked.
• It's also worth touching on that Kylo isn't really helped by his boss in any of this. Partially it's the name... Snoke, try and make that sound scary when it might as well belong to one of the muppets. Contrast this to Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious... first of all, in the original movies, he is never actually mentioned by name, it's 'Master' when it's Vader and it's 'Emperor' when it's everyone else. Secondly Snooke is a another case of trying too hard to be like the original movies by giving him this malformed appearance, like Sidious'... as if being a leading Sith or evil force user automatically means you get to look 80 years old and fall down a long flight of stairs on your face. (There is perhaps an in-canon reason for the looks elsewhere, but in the movies Sidious' appearance seemed to have more to do with him getting Force-lightninged than anything else).
• Finally you have to measure him by his opponents. And while you'd think Kylo should sweep this because he is up against the established greats... like ruining Luke Skywalker, and make Han's and Leia's life miserable simply by being what he is. It just doesn't feel that way because those characters are on their way out, they are old and we are transitioning everything to characters like Rey, Finn and Poe... and Rey, Finn and Poe just don't have the same panache as Luke, Leia and Han did.
• Emo-impact, plenty of emo elsewhere with Kylo, this is more about what kind of emotional devastation he can do to the heroes. I would argue he has already done all that he possibly could by killing his dad... but that doesn't live up to the old movies, because Han was a douche and we know right from the get go that Kylo is his kid. By contrast, again, we go through 2 movies, almost, thinking Luke was out for revenge against Vader and the evil Empire for killing both his father (described by most as a hero) and his uncle and aunt before Vader wipes him out with the truth. And Benny-boy just isn't going to measure up to that, not even if we find out Rey is his sister or something, that chance is gone.

All in all, Kylo could have been a decent antagonist if he was on his own, completely isolated. But he is a terrible one here, because of who he is trying to be and live up to.

People hated whiny Anakin but Kylo literally is giving you people the performance you wanted out of Prequel Anakin.

Yes.

People expected a "Darth vader Clone", and in the end it turned out to be more complex than just a simple "Clone".

Too angsty for my taste. His character hasn't grown on me yet.. just not intimidating enough.

No. Driver plays him well but the character comes across and impulsive and unloveable as a villain. He's like prequel Anakin only 10 years later.

He's a great character that really shook off the "Vader wannabe" about him in Last Jedi.

But like most others I'm having trouble viewing him as an antagonist. Maybe because these two movies were meant to pave his way. Let's see how he does in the next movie.

Not really.

His motivations weren't fleshed out in The Force Awakens, and if you think they were fleshed out in The Last Jedi, think again. We know he wants to fulfil Darth Vader's destiny, but only God knows why. He has shown compassion, I guess, when he didn't stab Rey in the back and when he didn't kill his mother. Just when we think he's gonna go good, he changes his more than a female.

Keep that mask on you fruitcake, you aren't even that intimidating without it.

I hated him in TFA, but I like him in TLJ

@outside_85 said:

He has far too many negative things going for him to be considered a good villain.

• First of all, he is crippled right out of the gate by trying to play up to one of the greatest movie villains of all time as his pseudo-successor.
• Secondly, he makes it even worse by initially not even trying to be himself... he wants to be Darth Vader, so he dresses up like him and even gets a voice modulator/breathing mask even if he doesn't need one.
• Then you take his surroundings into account. Vader was at all time surrounded by people who acted like professional soldiers and commanders. Kylo has Hux, who sounds like a ridiculous nazi parrot and who lacks the calm detachment people like Grand Moff Tarkin had and the gonads to talk calmly to the man in black even when he's upset.
• Presence. Very important for a guy who's a central bad guy, and again Vader owned any room he walked into, he entered, all eyes on him even if he didn't do anything at first. Kylo doesn't have that, quite often because he is just moving too fast. Also, when we first were introduced to Star Wars, nearly one of the first things we ever see is Darth Vader emerging from a smoking doorway with his ominous theme playing in the background after the fighting stops, we don't need anything more than seeing that, hearing his labored breathing and the horns in the background to know 'yeah, thats the bad guy' and then he strangles the captain of the ship and we know he is seriously scary. We are never needed to be told Vader is evil and scary, he's already proven that. Both new Star Wars movies have had to tell us repeatedly that Kylo is even more powerful and even scarier, according to people who have never actually seen him in person.
• And that supposed fear factor is completely undermined when we get so many instances of seeing Kylo angrily lashing out at computers, elevators or sitting around moping or otherwise be on the verge of tears. When Kylo is upset, he lashes out and everyone else just gives him a wide berth while he works out his tantrum. When Vader got displeased at anything, as much as he ever did because he didn't show a wide range of emotions, it was usually some knucklehead 5 feet away from him that he simply force-choked.
• It's also worth touching on that Kylo isn't really helped by his boss in any of this. Partially it's the name... Snoke, try and make that sound scary when it might as well belong to one of the muppets. Contrast this to Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious... first of all, in the original movies, he is never actually mentioned by name, it's 'Master' when it's Vader and it's 'Emperor' when it's everyone else. Secondly Snooke is a another case of trying too hard to be like the original movies by giving him this malformed appearance, like Sidious'... as if being a leading Sith or evil force user automatically means you get to look 80 years old and fall down a long flight of stairs on your face. (There is perhaps an in-canon reason for the looks elsewhere, but in the movies Sidious' appearance seemed to have more to do with him getting Force-lightninged than anything else).
• Finally you have to measure him by his opponents. And while you'd think Kylo should sweep this because he is up against the established greats... like ruining Luke Skywalker, and make Han's and Leia's life miserable simply by being what he is. It just doesn't feel that way because those characters are on their way out, they are old and we are transitioning everything to characters like Rey, Finn and Poe... and Rey, Finn and Poe just don't have the same panache as Luke, Leia and Han did.
• Emo-impact, plenty of emo elsewhere with Kylo, this is more about what kind of emotional devastation he can do to the heroes. I would argue he has already done all that he possibly could by killing his dad... but that doesn't live up to the old movies, because Han was a douche and we know right from the get go that Kylo is his kid. By contrast, again, we go through 2 movies, almost, thinking Luke was out for revenge against Vader and the evil Empire for killing both his father (described by most as a hero) and his uncle and aunt before Vader wipes him out with the truth. And Benny-boy just isn't going to measure up to that, not even if we find out Rey is his sister or something, that chance is gone.

All in all, Kylo could have been a decent antagonist if he was on his own, completely isolated. But he is a terrible one here, because of who he is trying to be and live up to.

Personally I feel he would make a great anti-hero or even a grey Jedi. But as the main antagonist and head of the First Order, he's very underwhelming.

No.

These 5 bullet points are exactly why I think he's a fantastic character and my favourite SW antagonist. Thanks for this post.

He is scrub in fights but he has a good point about letting the past die...he knows the first order is just doing the same thing the empire did and is a failure as well...he also really wanted rey to rule with him as he knows that he needs her in that sense and that let down brought back his worst qualities...overall, I think Hux will end up being the final villian of the series when he inevitably betrays Kylo...

No worries. I disagree with you very strongly, but thank you :)

@amonfire1776: I'd prefer Rey to go evil, it would be much more interesting.

@tj849: She does not seem to have the personality for that but that would be interesting for sure...

@amonfire1776: Yeah shes a crap actress, its kinda hard to imagine.

@tj849: I wouldn't go that far and I meant Rey's personality...too eager to help

Good is just about how I’d describe him right now, not great...at least not yet. From a character progression and storytelling standpoint in the films, he’s leagues above Maul and Dooku as far as I’m concerned

Hux isn't even a good villain tbh, so him being the final villain would be really...bad.

Kylo doesn't really seem to come off as a villain, I don't think he's suppose to be one really with the way his character goes.

@tj849:When I first saw the movie, I was half expecting Rey to turn evil since the dark side was calling her and Luke didn't want to train her. While Kylo was having a lot of indecisiveness, he didn't kill his mother when he had to the chance to kill her (to completely purge the good from himself), and not to mention Snoke was very disappointed in Kylo. I was thinking that Snoke would persuade Rey to join the dark side and reject Kylo, who then would return to Luke.

That sounds a hell of a lot better tbh..

oooo

I actually prefered how all this went down...moreover, unlike a lot of people here I wanted Snoke to be weak and Kylo to take over...if Kylo is discount vader Snoke should be discount Sidious...I still want Rey and Kylo to continue the bloodline though...

Lol, Kylo is a joke. His concept was really cool but him as the Supreme Leader? LMAO. That a bomb waiting to go off. We basically know what's going to happen in the next film. Hux is going to betray Kylo (if Kylo doesn't kill him first). The First Order would be scattered, with no strategy or confidence in themselves because their leader is too irrational. We already know that he's going to lose because Rey already BTFO anyone she meets. (Except Snoke, but we can't have someone more powerful than Rey). This man can't even take a lightsaber from Rey. Oh my god bruh... this man got served up by an amateur scavenger. Kylo isn't intimidating anyone. He's just a back waiting to get stabbed. In my opinion, Kylo should've become rogue Jedi and Rey joined Snoke. Now that would've been a good villain.

@stellatedcolt: I want the new republic to come out of nowhere and try to wipe out both the resistance and first order...also its much better this way...

No.

Most here agree that he's a good character. The thread asked if he was a good antagonist, and he's not. He's already lost to the protagonist in a 1v1 fight, so if when they fight again, there's very little sense of danger, because we've already seen him lose to a girl who has never wielded a lightsaber before. Then there are the times that Snoke had him on the verge of tears. He throws tantrums at the drop of a dime. I don't think I've ever seen him keep his composure when a plan falls apart. This is particularly problematic now because he's the leader of the First Order, and his men are going to look to him for strength in times of a crisis, and he has never shown that type of strength of character. Plus he's known for letting his emotions rule his decision making, again, that's a horrible trait in a leader.

I think Ben is the most complex and best developed of the new generation, and he was by far my favorite in The Last Jedi, but he is far from a good antagonist, but I don't think he was meant to be. I think he's purposely written as a confused kid, who's trying to be something he's not, and is in a situation way over his head.

he is acting like a whiny little b..ch so i would say ... NO ...
he doesn´t inspire fear or intimidation even dooku and maul were much better at that let alone vader .
with kylo most of the time you just want to tell him to shut up , b..ch slap him across the face and send him to his room to break some toys ...