Is it a bad thing that the MCU doesn’t overpower their heroes as much as DCEU does?

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KingTchalla03

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#1  Edited By KingTchalla03

I always thought that Marvel is so charming because their characters have room to struggle and lose unlike DC. I think this is mainly just because of the fact that Marvel is meant to be more relatable and grounded and DC is the one with all the gods and powerhouses at ever corner. Do you think marvel should make their movie characters more powerful so they can contend with the DCEU heroes in terms of power or do you think it’s appropriate that they aren’t overpowered like they are in the comics?

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deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65

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Don't see how we can relate to figures like Iron Man and Hulk, and it's pretty obvious from films like Homecoming that Marvel values plot over feats.

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tethadam

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It's bad for the versus forum.

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KingTchalla03

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@dirtytree333: you didn’t answer the question. Marvel may value narrative over feats but is that what fans want? And I’ve seen people find Ironman relatable because of his alcohol addiction. I’ve seen people with anger management issues find maybe not the Hulk but Bruce Banner, relatable. YOU may not find them relatable but lots of people have that one character they find themselves in. Marvel in general likes to focus on the hero instead of the super while DC over powers their heroes to the brim until they all become the same. All of them are goody two shoes with the power of Gods. I’m not saying one technique is better than the other but they both do their own thing and it works for certain people.

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KingTchalla03

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deactivated-5faef67d08995

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KingTchalla03

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The_Justiciar

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@dirtytree333: you didn’t answer the question. Marvel may value narrative over feats but is that what fans want?

Yes. Nobody cares about feats outside of ComicVine. Nobody outside of ComicVine even looks at battles the same way Viners do. General audience sees comic and live-action Batman as one and the same. Same with Captain America. The list goes on.

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KingTchalla03

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@ready_4_madness: read my reply to DirtyTree333. I’m not talking about you I’m talking about in general.

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Damkac

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It is not a bad thing. At least it make non-powered heroes seems more useful. Guys like Thor and Hulk are still much more powerful than them but can't just do everything alone like DCEU Supes.

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Green_Ballerina

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To contend with the DCEU characters? I don’t think Marvel Studios makes movies for fanboys to fight over feats. /s

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

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JediXMan

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#14 JediXMan  Moderator

Neither studio makes movies to give us feats. People need to stop thinking that they do.

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deactivated-5faef67d08995

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The only character i feel is OP is Superman.

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KingTchalla03

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@jedixman: Exactly the answer I was looking for.

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thatduderox

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Nah, their formula has proven extremely successful for them. Plus, this is something that's currently biting DCEU in the ass. When you have characters that can level an entire city, you lose a sense of danger. The moment Superman showed up in Justice League, Steppenwolf lost all credibility as a villain. He was damn near bullying him at some points. Compare that to Thanos in the Infinity War trailer, and it's as different as night and day. There is a real sense of dread for our heroes because they do come across as very human and we are left wondering how will they defeat someone who is essentially a god compared to them. It creates more tension for the narrative. So nah, I don't think overpowered heroes would work well for Marvel. People like the more grounded aspect of their characters.

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KingTchalla03

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HeroUp2112

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Don't see how we can relate to figures like Iron Man and Hulk, and it's pretty obvious from films like Homecoming that Marvel values plot over feats.

And this is a GOOD thing.

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deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

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@jedixman said:

Neither studio makes movies to give us feats. People need to stop thinking that they do.

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MethoKi

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Nah, their formula has proven extremely successful for them. Plus, this is something that's currently biting DCEU in the ass. When you have characters that can level an entire city, you lose a sense of danger. The moment Superman showed up in Justice League, Steppenwolf lost all credibility as a villain. He was damn near bullying him at some points. Compare that to Thanos in the Infinity War trailer, and it's as different as night and day. There is a real sense of dread for our heroes because they do come across as very human and we are left wondering how will they defeat someone who is essentially a god compared to them. It creates more tension for the narrative. So nah, I don't think overpowered heroes would work well for Marvel. People like the more grounded aspect of their characters.

That's probably because they did a crappy job at establishing a true threat Steppenwolf would have been to the world especially after the Unity of the Mother Boxes. I don't think Superman is necessarily overpowered, they just made the villain underwhelming. The sense of dread that I personally felt from the 'Communion' scene from BvS for Steppenwolf was wiped away after the execution of his character in Justice League. If we would have seen militaries becoming useless, the world go into chaos and Steppenwolf busting the whole team like he should have (Clark included), we'd have had the great movie we were looking for.

But alas, many people didn't like the dark yet realistic tone Man of Steel had from it's inception and I presume Justice League was there attempt at a lighter tone, so we couldn't get the mass destruction we should've gotten again.

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GoofTheFloof

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Black panther and cap are super op wut

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Outside_85

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@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

Or maybe Thanos just sucks a fat one when faced with raw PATRIOTISM! :)

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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No. If anyone rates anything simply because characters are stronger, than everyone would be having TOAA/The Presence as the #1 favorite character in either camp. But that is remarkably stupid, so stupid, it makes stupid look like a smart guy.

And I can care less about battle forums either. Some people imply above that "it is bad in a battle forum". No, what is bad in a battle forum is bad matchups and spite matches. If paired vs people like them, very weak characters have very fun battles. Even as "op" as DCEU, do you want DCEU superman paired against reality warping Beerus from DBZ for crying out loud? No, because even DCEU superman gets stomped in his sleep, and twice on Sunday, and embarrassed simply for trying to lift a finger to him.

There is always a bigger fish, and OP ness doesn't even make a character good or bad on any battle forum. Unless you are just wanting YOUR character to be able to beat characters YOU WANT THEM TO BEAT, but that alone is stupid, as a fan of both camps here.

Good characters are good because they are likeable, they have nice personalities, or at least interesting in their universe and to explore; not because "character x beats y". That isn't how fandoms of even superman were created.

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thatduderox

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@batman242: I think the destruction in MoS is one of the reasons that massively overpowering these characters can be a bad idea IMO. Superman and Zod set the stage for what it looks like when two beings of that caliber clash in the real world and one of them has no regard for human life. Their clash could level an entire city and kill thousands if not millions. BvS and Justice League tried to make up for the extreme backlash of that 9/11 imagery of MoS by saying the climatic fights of their films took place in abandoned areas, but realistically that's not going to happen all the time. So the next time a being as strong and as ruthless as Zod comes around, the death toll and property damage should be through the roof, because that was the precedence that MoS took if two overpowered beings clashed in the real world. And with the DCEU not wanting to face that backlash again, they have to keep coming up with new and ridiculous ways that large chunks of a city is abandoned during superhero fights. In the end, large scale battles like that are creating more difficulty for writers who have to appease the general audience as well as tell a believable story.

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@batman242: I think the destruction in MoS is one of the reasons that massively overpowering these characters can be a bad idea IMO. Superman and Zod set the stage for what it looks like when two beings of that caliber clash in the real world and one of them has no regard for human life. Their clash could level an entire city and kill thousands if not millions. BvS and Justice League tried to make up for the extreme backlash of that 9/11 imagery of MoS by saying the climatic fights of their films took place in abandoned areas, but realistically that's not going to happen all the time. So the next time a being as strong and as ruthless as Zod comes around, the death toll and property damage should be through the roof, because that was the precedence that MoS took if two overpowered beings clashed in the real world. And with the DCEU not wanting to face that backlash again, they have to keep coming up with new and ridiculous ways that large chunks of a city is abandoned during superhero fights. In the end, large scale battles like that are creating more difficulty for writers who have to appease the general audience as well as tell a believable story.

Not even close to millions died in that. Nor did the city get remotely destroyed, a lot of skyscrapers were heavily damaged, and few outright destroyed - but that doesn't even remotely equate to NYC being destroyed. That is a bit of a high generalization there. Provided they are fighting in similar ways, and Zod doesn't win in some outright fashion and then just take over the earth and start killing with no one to stop him (in which case that scene becomes irrelevant) - the damage shouldn't be compared to wiping out that city any time such beings fought.

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GodSaveMeNow

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Quite a number of responses and I have still yet to hear from idiots trying to justify that DCEU is better than MCU because of better feats.

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MethoKi

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@batman242: I think the destruction in MoS is one of the reasons that massively overpowering these characters can be a bad idea IMO. Superman and Zod set the stage for what it looks like when two beings of that caliber clash in the real world and one of them has no regard for human life. Their clash could level an entire city and kill thousands if not millions. BvS and Justice League tried to make up for the extreme backlash of that 9/11 imagery of MoS by saying the climatic fights of their films took place in abandoned areas, but realistically that's not going to happen all the time. So the next time a being as strong and as ruthless as Zod comes around, the death toll and property damage should be through the roof, because that was the precedence that MoS took if two overpowered beings clashed in the real world. And with the DCEU not wanting to face that backlash again, they have to keep coming up with new and ridiculous ways that large chunks of a city is abandoned during superhero fights. In the end, large scale battles like that are creating more difficulty for writers who have to appease the general audience as well as tell a believable story.

And that's a stupid narrative to try to project. I find Man of Steel to be so good simply because we see the chaos and fear that the destruction wreaks for the humans completely powerless to stop it. It truly shows Superman's character that he's on our side and is truly trying to protect the world and not destroy it, because he could and effortlessly if he wanted to.

The plot of Civil War is the most mature for an MCU film I've seen because it expands upon the casualties and property damage that we would've imagined to happen, so it's clearly happening in both universes. Cap himself says;

"We try to save as many people as we can. Sometimes that doesn't mean everybody. But if we can't find a way to live with that... next time... maybe nobody gets saved."

If the audience can't comprehend that there will be casualties and destruction especially after two demigods clash in battle, I don't cast blame on the studio for ignorance.

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thatduderox

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@theonewhopullsthestrings: I didn't say millions died in the Metropolis fight, but stated that it was a real possibility of two beings of that calliber clashed in a real city. both Superman and Zod could level an entire city if they really wanted to, ad that's problem you run into when faced with villains of that power set from a writing standpoint. Why a character with o regard for human life wouldn't attempt to cause as much destruction as he can.

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thatduderox

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@batman242: At the end of the day,this is a business. The GA didn't like the destruction imagery in MoS, now writers and directors have to go out of their way to say why cities are evacuated and thousands aren't dying to try and appease the masses. BvS and JL was a direct reaction to the backlash MoS faced. But the problem it creates is that realistically thousands of people SHOULD be the causalities between beings of this level of power, but the studio doesn't want to deal with the backlash of that realism. And that lies the problem.

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King_Nomarch

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@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

No Caption Provided

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Gokluma

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#33  Edited By Gokluma

It doesn't matter at all since i like the Thing from Marvel's comics and Monkey D Luffy way more than bland boring powerful characters like Doomsday and Broly who has a personality of one-dimensional wall.

since not everything needs to be all overpowered gods for a story.

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mimisalome

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#34  Edited By mimisalome

I don't know if its bad per se, but it makes MCU fanboys salty as dried fish in every DCEU vs MCU battle threads

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MethoKi

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@batman242: At the end of the day,this is a business. The GA didn't like the destruction imagery in MoS, now writers and directors have to go out of their way to say why cities are evacuated and thousands aren't dying to try and appease the masses. BvS and JL was a direct reaction to the backlash MoS faced. But the problem it creates is that realistically thousands of people SHOULD be the causalities between beings of this level of power, but the studio doesn't want to deal with the backlash of that realism. And that lies the problem.

Yea, that's completely understood, but as I said, in Civil War they explain that there were casualties throughout all major battles in the MCU. They just were successful at making their films and characters lighthearted.

Justice League was their biggest attempt at following such a formula, and it failed. What I'm saying is, maybe they shouldn't follow any formulas and try to make their own, which they did. They should've continued with it also. There were many people that defended what Man of Steel represented as a film and the direction it was going in.

This is just a rant for me, because I think Man of Steel had so much potential to bring about a great expansion on the DCEU, but was ultimately thwarted by the GA that can't grasp that there's going to be chaos no matter what.

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Black_Arrow

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@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

No Caption Provided

This is now my favorite GIF thank you.

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GodSaveMeNow

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@king_nomarch: i am curious, how is that gif made? As in, what techniques are used to specifically extract the video of Chris Evans laughing to composite with just the specific extract of the Infinity Gauntlet?

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MethoKi

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@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

No Caption Provided

Every time I think these Chris Evans GIFs can't get better, I'm proven wrong.

And I love it.

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MethoKi

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@king_nomarch: i am curious, how is that gif made? As in, what techniques are used to specifically extract the video of Chris Evans laughing to composite with just the specific extract of the Infinity Gauntlet?

Probably video overlap and then make it into a GIF.

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Batvibe12

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thatduderox

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@batman242: I agree. I think best course of action for the DCEU would have been sticking to their guns and showing the consequences for that level of battle, and having the heroes deal with it, and acknowledge that its unavoidable sometimes.

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GodSaveMeNow

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@batman242: yes its relatively easy to do that using photoshop tools but what about video? To accomplish what was shown in that gif, the tool has to digitally *remove every unneeded part in every frame*, then put the two videos together.

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MethoKi

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@batman242: I agree. I think best course of action for the DCEU would have been sticking to their guns and showing the consequences for that level of battle, and having the heroes deal with it, and acknowledge that its unavoidable sometimes.

At the very least, I do respect BvS opening chapters in response to the events of MoS to be on the money. There would be world leaders looking to take some form of action against such a powerful being on their back porch and of course there would be polarizing opinions presented from many people on any course of action. We wouldn't lie down and accept such blatantly abnormal and unusual, maybe even supernatural events, unlike what happened in the MCU, we'd want answers.

On-Topic though, the OP asks a loaded question as though the intention was to make their characters 'overpowered' and not focus on character development......... Like the direction MoS intended to go in.

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@batman242 said:
@thatduderox said:

@batman242: I agree. I think best course of action for the DCEU would have been sticking to their guns and showing the consequences for that level of battle, and having the heroes deal with it, and acknowledge that its unavoidable sometimes.

At the very least, I do respect BvS opening chapters in response to the events of MoS to be on the money. There would be world leaders looking to take some form of action against such a powerful being on their back porch and of course there would be polarizing opinions presented from many people on any course of action. We wouldn't lie down and accept such blatantly abnormal and unusual, maybe even supernatural events, unlike what happened in the MCU, we'd want answers.

On-Topic though, the OP asks a loaded question as though the intention was to make their characters 'overpowered' and not focus on character development......... Like the direction MoS intended to go in.

Blatant fanboy jab at MCU is obvious and out of place. If you want to hate on the MCU for no reason, that's on you, but it doesn't mean everyone else wants to hate them for no reason or will accept it. They wanted answers just as much. Why does everyone here want to hate one franchise and love the other, and why can't it be both, and why can't we look at both honestly through that lens?

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MethoKi

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#45  Edited By MethoKi

@theonewhopullsthestrings said:
@batman242 said:
@thatduderox said:

@batman242: I agree. I think best course of action for the DCEU would have been sticking to their guns and showing the consequences for that level of battle, and having the heroes deal with it, and acknowledge that its unavoidable sometimes.

At the very least, I do respect BvS opening chapters in response to the events of MoS to be on the money. There would be world leaders looking to take some form of action against such a powerful being on their back porch and of course there would be polarizing opinions presented from many people on any course of action. We wouldn't lie down and accept such blatantly abnormal and unusual, maybe even supernatural events, unlike what happened in the MCU, we'd want answers.

On-Topic though, the OP asks a loaded question as though the intention was to make their characters 'overpowered' and not focus on character development......... Like the direction MoS intended to go in.

Blatant fanboy jab at MCU is obvious and out of place. If you want to hate on the MCU for no reason, that's on you, but it doesn't mean everyone else wants to hate them for no reason or will accept it. They wanted answers just as much.

Please, dismiss yourself. My comment elicited no hate against the universe. If you take any form of criticism as a 'jab' for a franchise's flaws, then you're the true fanboy here. I at least understand that a lot (not all) of the criticism for the DCEU's franchise is substantiated and validated.

I've enjoyed many MCU films and did not enjoy few, but this doesn't mean that I have any hate for it whatsoever. I'm clearly just like any other movie-goer or fan of an art, I have standards. Sometimes they're simply not met in certain aspects.

So again, dismiss yourself.

Why does everyone here want to hate one franchise and love the other, and why can't it be both, and why can't we look at both honestly through that lens?

I have yet to see where I had any hate against the MCU. If you actually paid attention to the majority of my rants in this thread, you'd notice that it was mostly about how the DCEU disappointed me after showing so much promise in it's first film.

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Jgames

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Give me great plot over feats.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

No Caption Provided

Watch how easily I steal this gif and spam it into every Mcu Cap vs ___ thread

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AngelJax

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RukelnikovFTW

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@king_nomarch said:
@jayc1324 said:

Well Cap is now stronger than Thanos so maybe the MCU is taking a page from DCEU's book

No Caption Provided

Every time I think these Chris Evans GIFs can't get better, I'm proven wrong.

And I love it.

This is too good ahahahhaha

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Petey_is_Spidey

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I totally relate to Hulk, Groot, Thor, Rocket & Iron Man ?