Is Goku overrated?

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SpitfirePanda

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This is a genuine question about something that's been bothering me for a while. A part of me, the part that's a big fan of DB, says that Goku is crazy powerful and awesome. Another part of me, the part that gets frustrated with the fanbase, says that Goku isn't as powerful as some folks make him out to be. The most rational part of me says it doesn't even matter.

Still, it's frustrating that the fanbase seems to be so obsessed over whether or not Goku can beat up other characters. Even the creators of DBS seem to have acknowledged this problem. In last weeks episode, Goku and Vegeta were pestering Beerus to tell them how powerful Lord Zeno was and Beerus replied something to the effect of "you Saiyans are too concerned with how powerful others are". I took this as a subtle jab at the fanbase.

What do other people think? Is Goku overrated, and if so, why? Where do you rate him and his recent opponents in terms of power? Are the people who bring DB into every debate about another character's feats just trolls or are they actual fans?

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RukelnikovFTW

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Take Beerus advice

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deactivated-57af58bda2d61

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A widdle

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Mahaha

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@spitfirepanda: Did Beerus really say that? I haven't seen it. If so, it really does seem like the authors are trying to shake the fans from this obsession with power levels.

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Omega-Level

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I was never a fan of DB, I liked Bleach and Naruto better

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NeonGameWave

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He has been (like a lot of characters) overestimated but he is not overrated.

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Straight-Fire

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Yep.

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Penguin-Dust

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#8  Edited By Penguin-Dust

Goku should only be as strong as a good story needs him to be. Nothing more, nothing less. This is true for all heroes and villains. And, while a good argument can be made that believable consistency is an element of good story telling, strict adherence to a ruleset can limit creativity. Another danger is the story becoming predictable in that for a threat to be real, the villain must be stronger than the hero. Victory means the hero rises above his previous boundaries, as one domino falls against another with hero and villain speeding repetitiously toward godhood. Good stories should include fluctuation as a means to create tension breaking that cycle.

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SpitfirePanda

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#9  Edited By SpitfirePanda

@mahaha: My computer is having trouble loading the episode, but I think it's pretty soon after Goku leaves his vegetable picking contest with Piccolo to train on Beerus' planet. It may be in episode 47. That was my interpretation of the scene, though I could be wrong.

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Mahaha

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@mahaha: My computer is having trouble loading the episode, but I think it's pretty soon after Goku leaves his vegetable picking contest with Piccolo to train on Beerus' planet. It may be in episode 47. That was my interpretation of the scene, though I could be wrong.

You're f-ing with me, right? There is no vegetable picking contest...

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jadenlol

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This is bait.

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SpitfirePanda

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@mahaha said:
@spitfirepanda said:

@mahaha: My computer is having trouble loading the episode, but I think it's pretty soon after Goku leaves his vegetable picking contest with Piccolo to train on Beerus' planet. It may be in episode 47. That was my interpretation of the scene, though I could be wrong.

You're f-ing with me, right? There is no vegetable picking contest...

It wasn't a contest. My bad. Goku was collecting harvest and tricked Piccolo into helping by calling it training.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=34294

Whis is the one who tells them that judging people by their strength is a bad Saiyan habit. Interpret it as you will.

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Mahaha

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#13  Edited By Mahaha
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flashback0180

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No

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Omega_kai

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SpitfirePanda

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@omega_kai: I don't know much Japanese, so I wouldn't know. I don't see a lot of people bothered by the translation in the kanzenshuu comments, though.

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Omega_kai

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@spitfirepanda: Yes they were they just moved it to General discussion to probably keep the thread from becoming off topic.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34339&start=40

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SpitfirePanda

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@omega_kai: According to that thread, Dragon Team worded it "the Saiyans have a bad habit of judging people based only on their strength (i.e. determining their value)". The Spanish language fansubbers did the same, and the people in the thread seem to think both are accurate. While my wording was probably taken from a bad fansubber, the bad translation still gets the point across. It's just not as close to the wording used in Japanese.

The translation debate isn't about whether this is what was said or not, it was over someone using the translation of a bad fansubber. They weren't even debating whether or not this was a jab at the fanbase. I still think it was, though I tend to agree with the folks saying this is how the DBU has worked for a while now. I feel like Toriyama and his team are trying to fix that, though.

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Thedarkpaladin

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Is water wet?

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MetalJimmor

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When his fans try to claim that Goku is one of the most skilled martial artists in all of fiction then yes, he definitely is overrated. Vastly so. And I have seen that claim made several times in the past.

As a character he tends to be rated pretty justly, though. You have people who say he's a good father and savior of Earth and others who point out the flaws he has that make him bad at both. So it balanced out nicely.

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DBVSE7

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Goku is not overrated.. he's overused and overvalued.

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spencermanprime

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I'd say it really just depends on you talk to. There's to many opinions that are polar opposites to really make a definitive call and say he is definitely over/under rated by the whole community.

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never give up

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#23  Edited By never give up

Yes!

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deactivated-5967bf6197d40

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Uh huh

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LpnQ

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No, Goku is the symbol for anime in america and DBZ is the reason anime does so well in America.

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micah007123

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I actually think between the constant underestimation and overestimation he's quite balanced.

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KrleAvenger

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On Vine = Don't know.

Overall = Of Course!

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deactivated-5988def3424a7

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YES he is!

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BlueHope

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#29  Edited By BlueHope

Even the creators of DBS seem to have acknowledged this problem. In last weeks episode, Goku and Vegeta were pestering Beerus to tell them how powerful Lord Zeno was and Beerus replied something to the effect of "you Saiyans are too concerned with how powerful others are". I took this as a subtle jab at the fanbase.

I don't think so at all, Goku and later Vegeta always made stupid decisions in the entire anime/manga only to find out how powerful their enemy is and other characters always criticized those actions.This is nothing new.

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never give up

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#30  Edited By never give up

I think it all goes back to many DB fans having an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

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Renzoa

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@Penguin-Dust: I'm confused it sounds like you are taking about Superman

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MiguelR

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I think it all goes back to many DB fans having an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

lol

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Penguin-Dust

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@renzoa said:

@Penguin-Dust: I'm confused it sounds like you are talking about Superman

Not specifically, but as I stated earlier any hero potentially encounters the same pitfalls. With Goku and, let's face it., a lot of anime characters the character development devolves to the protagonist encountering a villain who is stronger, they train, learn some new mystic technique or develop a new power which allows them to beat the villain. Next chapter an even stronger villain appears and now they have to do the whole thing over again. They start off being able to break rocks and after finding victory over a dozen or so bad guys, they can now split planets. I watch a lot of anime and read a variety of manga, so I've seen this time and time again. I enjoy a lot of titles, but I know that the story progressions are fundamentally shallow, derivative and uninspired.

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U_WOT_M8

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He is both underrated and overrated.

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speckoh

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Goku isn't overrated. Goku is UNDERRATED! If you think about it, the whole Buu saga happened in a span of around 6 hours. That's actually a guess but either way, the tournament started probably around morning to noon time and when it ended, it was still daylight so it possibly concluded around the afternoon. That's 60+ episodes in about 6 hrs which basically means that 10 episodes of DBZ is = 1 hr real time. So since each episode is about 20 mins and we have around 60 buu saga episodes, that would mean that the DBZ characters are functioning basically at 333% Speed.

That would mean that when we the viewers were watching dbz, the play speed was 33% of normal so that we can comprehend what's going on and even then DBZ characters are still fighting at blinking speeds.

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speckoh

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#36  Edited By speckoh

Also, I noticed this same thing happen just recently with DBS when vegeta said that he had like 3 mins until he dies and that 3 mins lasted nearly the whole episode! Meaning that now, Super Saiyan Gods are probably closer to 500% normal speed! :D

EDIT: Basically, if you want the TRUE DBZ experience, just play a Dragonball Super episode at 5X the normal speed.

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SpitfirePanda

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@speckoh: You're either a troll or the reason I made this thread.

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Aimless

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Yes he is,just like a myriad of other popular loved characters.

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deactivated-57c3cf21b495e

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@lpnq said:

No, Goku is the symbol for anime in america and DBZ is the reason anime does so well in America.

This just... isn't true at all.

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never give up

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@miguelr said:
@never_give_up said:

I think it all goes back to many DB fans having an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

lol

It's the truth.

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deactivated-5a794b61068b8

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he's definitely overrated, but the same thing happens to every popular fictional character around here. It happens.

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never give up

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he's definitely overrated, but the same thing happens to every popular fictional character around here. It happens.

Not on the level of Goku. People still think Goku>time.

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deactivated-5a794b61068b8

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@never_give_up: lol, true. I have seen my share of DB wank around here.

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never give up

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@never_give_up: lol, true. I have seen my share of DB wank around here.

The levels are insane! Goku is a 2.3 universe buster...

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Thedarkpaladin

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Well, with arguments like "goku is a faster than time multiverse buster" or "Goku is 4D", it certainly seems so.

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TheDeathstroke

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No..

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TheDeathstar

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Nope.

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Galactic_1000

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Yes.

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Shadowwaker

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Goku is infinite 4D, because he shook the void or something like that. Anyway Dragonball is going on another power crawl. It's only matter of time until they start breaking time. OH WAIT THEY DID! WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?!

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TheDeathstar

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Goku is infinite 4D, because he shook the void or something like that. Anyway Dragonball is going on another power crawl. It's only matter of time until they start breaking time. OH WAIT THEY DID! WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?!

Don't know about the 4-D stuff but he is definitely in Universal+ tier in his Ultra Instinct form whether people like it or not.