Is Goku Multiversal?

@deactivated-5b6ce8bba1f99: You are wrong there, because Utltra instinct is a form wich come with the technique mastery of self movement. Because Whis stated that when Goku achieved Ultra Instinct gis attacks where weak, but when he mastered it, his attacks got stronger too, I know you might say: No Goku only needed to think wich attack he would use and because of that, the mastery of self movement was interruptet,but when Goku went Ssb he was able to hit jiren because Jiren didn't di anything, but Goku also wasn't able to hurt him, at that point jiren was surpressed. So if Ultra instinct wouldn't make you stronger, then Goku couldn't have hurt Jiren.

@revold: youre retarded and a shitty debater, sit down

this

*sits down*

*sips tea*

*clears throat*

Back in the Battle of the Gods arc, SSG Goku and Beerus first 2 clashes destroyed a planet on screen and was even felt by the Kaios at the Kaioshin Realm. Old Kai first noted that the universe will be annihilated by the third clash, and the narrator also reiterated that it threatens to destroy the universe. Whis later remarked that he wasn't able to stop the fight and that power was capable of destroying the universe. However, Goku managed to nullify the shockwave effects by clashing with Beerus at the perfect angle, saving the universe from destruction.

Thesis argues that Goku is half-responsible for the shockwaves that is capable of destroying the universe, as he must have exerted an equal and opposite force to nullify Beerus's punch. However, this is extremely problematic because of a few reasons:

1. Traditional laws of physics as we know it do not apply here. The shockwaves, though destroyed nearby planets, should logically destroy Earth first. If you think the shockwave grows stronger as it travels further away, then logically the Kaioshin realm would've been destroyed first. It might be because their punch is so powerful, it wraps spacetime etc. Either way, we can no longer assume that this argument holds true.
2. Statements can be unknowingly taken out of context. Old Kai might have spoken out of existing knowledge of Beerus at 100%. The Narrator might have just been serving the purpose of recapping what was established by Old Kai. And Whis was probably joking considering he would have stopped Beerus or redo time even if he destroyed a galaxy, let alone the universe itself.

Antithesis: Many characters later in the show are easily a hundred times more powerful than SSG Goku. Yet none of them is able to replicate this feat except for Beerus and Champa, whom were stopped by Whis and Vados. This suggests two things:

1. It is more probable that Beerus is the one more responsible for the shockwaves because he has actually shown the capacity to do so.
2. It is unlikely that the shockwaves was able to destroy the universe because Whis did not attempt to stop the fight despite perfectly capable and willing to do so.

Some may rebutt the anti-thesis that Goku has mastered the shockwave nullification, thus his future battles did not cause such a phenomenon. However, other characters who are 50x more powerful (eg. Kefla, Anilaza, Black) have fought each other before. Unless you are saying that every one of them has mastered the same technique, and every one of them decides to hold back for every punch. It almost seems like the multiverse is at mercy of all these everyday fighters. Logically speaking, hitting at the perfect angle isn't a technique that can be mastered anyway.

Thesis 2: Another argument that I've seen is Goku's remark after his first fight against Beerus. He said even with fusion, he couldn't have defeated Beerus, yet SSG Goku seems to stand a chance against him. Thus SSG Goku is stronger than SS Vegito, whom defeated Super Buuhan whom was able to destroy the universe. Again, many of the same problems here:

1. Goku's remark might have been unknowingly taken out of context. He was clearly speculating about going against 100% Beerus. But as we know later, Beerus barely used 1% against SSG Goku.
2. SS Kefla was able to defeat SSG Goku while suppressed. You may argue that Goku was fatigued, but mind you that Goku was much stronger then compared to BoG, not to mention Vegito is logically stronger than Kefla due to better compatibility.
3. Even if we ignore those points, Buuhan's feat isn't universal itself. It collapses dimensions rather than destroying the universe. It is not unlike destroying a pillar of a building, but call yourself building level when it collapses on its own due to it.

Rebuttal: Some may think that BoG SSG Goku was stronger than ToP SSG Goku because he was given the ki of 5 other saiyans.

1. This is just wrong. It is not as if Goku somehow lost the ki he gained from the ritual. In fact, he clearly said that he absorbed all of it as his own.
2. Even if this is true, the difference it make is negligible as 4/5 of them were fodder compared to Goku, so a mere 3x increase will guarantee an improvement.

TLDR: SSG Goku is not universal because there are too much contradictions and assumptions that cannot simply be ignored.

Even MUI Goku is Large Galaxy-Low Multi Galaxy Level at best!

Let alone Super Saiyan God being Multiversal!

No, but every Naruto character is.

Goku is Universal at best.

Not at all

That lowballing. He is multi-DC&MarvelVersal+

The wrong answer: YES

The correct answer: NO

Shook half the macrochasm in his fight with Beerus, now he has forms many times stronger than that, yes he’s multiversal

not even universal let alone multiversal

Universal

@citylevel10: Read my post to see the truth..

Basically how dragon ball fans scale goku

"He trained for 6 months that means his power level must have multiplied by somewhat 4-8 times I am lowballing and putting It at 3 times."

No , multi- universal yes.

Frieza first form casualy destroyed a planet yet massivly stronger characters didnt.

I pitty ppl who know how db is yet still use that argument.

aint ONE of you actualy believe they gonna make them bust the universe with each fight.

its just you talking crap for sake of it.

let me guess , first form frieza can one shot broly becouse he destroyed a planet and broly even while basicly blind from rage didnt bust anything but rocks.

Maybe multi-universe at best with MUI.

Basically this.

@arthur_morgan: That comparison is unsuitable here. One is destroying a planet by targeting it. I mean if they don't try to hit the planet it wouldn't explode. The another is destroying a Universe be punching in general. How can you even make that argument?

@johnsmjs36: but they hit the planet/ground.

its not really up for debate.

@arthur_morgan: Yeah because Frieza blew up the planet by punching it.

@johnsmjs36: what?

im not talking about physical atacks.

broly shot countless amounts of ki blasts while being in rage and didnt destroy anything.

golden frieza vs ssb was less impressive than goku vs frieza on namek.

same logic here.

point is , you cant expect them to do that stuff every fight when they dont even make them destroy mountains/cities/islands/countries/continents etc. on a daily basis when we know they can bust planets since forever.

king piccolo was already city level+ lmao.

Its not up for debate.period.

literaly every fight is an example of this.

heck, apart from that dimension stuff you would have ppl thinking first form frieza > gogeta and broly if they dont know the series.

They all were in the same movie lmao.

pretty sure when we are past ssj broly and surpressed gogeta level we wont see that dimension busting again.

No one in Dragonball bar the angels have galaxy level feats.

I wouldn't say so maybe with MUI maybe universal + but honestly I see that as a stretch

short answer no

Low-Multiversal, if we going with Xeno Goku.

No, but apparently Kaguya is.

Yup, no galaxy level feats.

They do have universal feats though, which are way above.

@rukelnikovftw:

Highly skeptical of anyone below Zeno or the Angels. The Goku Beerus feat occurred only once and nothing on that scale occurred again and the nature of the shockwaves were abnormal.

It was mentioned again when Beerus and Champa fought that both universes would be destroyed

@rukelnikovftw:

I always saw that as a taboo that would contradict the nature of the universe.

It also seems like an overtime thing as well seeing as hows slow Beerus’ palace was being destroyed

Pretty sure he’s galaxy level now, but that’s as far as I’m willing to go. It’s all conjecture until there is a concrete feat to back it.

BOG arc SSG Goku was going to destroy the universe if he kept clashing with Beerus, and he's way stronger now. Galaxy level is a major lowball.

no still universal at best

Japanese original text in the movies, series and manga all confirm that God Ki energy and Hakai in general get more powerful over distance. Where normal energy gets weaker over time and distance, God Ki gets stronger over distance.

The further away the waves got, the stronger they became. Their impacts were not enough to shake Earth right next to them, but X gazillions of lightyears away as the energy waves spread out, they were vaporizing planets and shaking Otherworld.

Answer is no: Not Multiversal.

DBS is so inconsistent that I think trying to power scale it is nonsensical.

That is a specious argument, at best. I don't consider that feat to be strong evidence, especially when you take into account that Beerus contributed to it; i.e. Goku didn't do it by himself.

A shared feat is still a feat. Even if it wasn't universal, current Goku definitely is.

Yes

Even Zeno is just multi-universal.

nope lool

Goku is already highballed to universal by scaling, he's still nowhere close of having a hundred billion galaxy busting or Universal AP

@takenstew22: NO

@juicers: current goku is GoD level which is casual universal level.

you have no idea what highballing means.