Is DCEU Aquaman underestimated in battles?

He definitely is. Some are lowballing him to the point where they think he'd lose to Black Panther.

people keep putting him up against Cap and Bucky, obviously he is

By some. I still don't think he was that impressive on land.

Yes. He keeps getting out against street levelers

I don't think so. His strength is really the only area that he is definitely above street level ranges. He is not slow on land, but he is not even an arrow timer like CW Green Arrow. He is bulletproof like Luke Cage, but Arthur is still vulnerable to heat and energy attacks. His is skilled on land, but nothing special compared to MCU Daredevil. His blunt force durability is good but so is MCU Spiderman's.

I definitely think that Arthur is well above Cap and Bucky though. His strength and blunt force durability or more than enough to beat them. Black Panther would get some good hits in and may be able to cut him with vibranium but Arthur does have a healing factor and ultimately should win. I would put Arthur in the MCU Iron Man tier, which is pretty good considering Iron Man's performances against the likes of Thanos and Thor. Definitely above street level but not up there with the best powerhouses.

Yeah he is lmao. They’re matching him against BP, Bucky, and Cap. Come on lol.

Absolutely. It seems like there's a small community here who have made it their life goal to paint Arthur "I can lift a submarine" Curry as a street level threat. He'd destroy Captain America, Bucky, or Black Panther by virtue of sheer stats, yet they are his most common pairing for some reason.

He's a better match for the likes of Ironman or Spider-Man. As far as cinematic universes go he seems pretty solidly mid-tier. Maybe on the upper end of mid-tier.

Hey, what do you know? Not that different from the relative power range of almost every incarnation of Aquaman.

Aquaman only lifted the sub under water. He seemed weaker on land. I would also argue black panther and spider-man are in roughly the same tier (assuming MCU versions). Iron man is in a league above aquaman.

Nothing in the movie says he is weaker on land. When they describe his powers they make no note of it and the way his powers are described to work is purely an attribute of his biology. It wouldn't make sense for his biology to change based on if he's surrounded by gas or liquid.

Saying he "feels weaker on land" isn't really conclusive evidence.

Well he was hurt in the sub by a grenade launcher. He also held back one of the trench with a piece of metal. He really didn't look like he was that strong on land. Either the sub feat is an outlier or there is a difference between when Aquaman is on land or the water. Or the sub feat was due to the fact that Aquaman was able to generate momentum underwater and was using his speed underwater to push against the sub.

@jayc1324: Aquaman should scale to Wonder Woman. They both fought pretty equally against Steppenwolf; who was obviously equal to or faster than Diana.

@jashro44:

He had the wind knocked out of him by a grenade launcher. It did no lasting damage to his body and once he got back up it didn't slow him down.

I don't see how you can say it is an outlier when he's taken hits from Superman and Steppenwolf in a previous movie, both of whom are high tier powerhouses. He held his own against Steppenwolf about as well as Diana did and she can casually lift a tank over her head. He also performed about the same against Steppenwolf above and below the sea and the movie didn't make mention once that he should be stronger or weaker on land.

Aquaman is consistently being written as in the tier that lets him hang with these guys. The submarine feat at best is just confirmation of how much of that is due to strength.

Even if that feat was about "generating momentum" his body still had to flex and hold out against the sheer force being exerted between his supposed "Swimming power" and the submarine. Otherwise he'd squish himself under his own power.

What you're doing is like if I decided to completely dismiss Thor's feats with the forging of Stormbreaker because "Thor has never been that strong on land. He must clearly get stronger in space."

This isn’t a yes or no question. Yes, he is sometimes, but normally he’s overrated horribly. People just ignore his low showings because he moved a submarine, simply because they don’t want to accept that he is weaker on land than under water

X

@metaljimmor: I just want to point out two things, 1 is that Batman also took hits from Superman so I don't know how valuable that is when he is clearly holding back in that scene, and 2 is that lifting heavy stuff is just factually easier to do when it is underwater because the water provides an upward force. I don't believe Arthur is physically weaker on land than he is on water, but he can absolutely lift heavier things in water than he can on land (and so can people in real life too). The sub feat should not be used when talking about his strength on land.

Wonder Woman would have ripped Black Manta's head off in half a second

@jayc1324:

There's a whole mess of things that make aquatic feat calculation way more complex than you're suggesting. The speed he was pushing it upward and the water drag would have been an incredible force to overcome.

It is well beyond anything Captain America or Bucky could do regardless of if you go with the high ball estimates (500,000ish tons), the more conservative estimates (10,000ish tons), or the extreme lowball estimates (hundreds of tons). It still demonstrates a massive stat gap.

Also, Batman took very light jabs from Superman that sent him back a dozen or so feet. Arthur took a right hook that sent him dozens of meters or so. And I doubt anyone would argue Steppenwolf was holding back.

My point is this feat isn't inconsistent with what we see from the character based on the kind of opponents he's been fighting.

Lol

@jayc1324: black manta scales to Arthur, who scales to Diana and Steppenwolf. Scfi magic/tech powers.

what are you saying exactly? you think black manta is equal to steppenwolf? I am not sure I understand what you mean when say someone scales to someone else.

No doubt. I'm just waiting for a home release so people can give him his just due.

@metaljimmor:

He had the wind knocked out of him by a grenade launcher. It did no lasting damage to his body and once he got back up it didn't slow him down.

I know. But that is still a large gap between that and lifting a submarine.

I don't see how you can say it is an outlier when he's taken hits from Superman and Steppenwolf in a previous movie, both of whom are high tier powerhouses. He held his own against Steppenwolf about as well as Diana did and she can casually lift a tank over her head. He also performed about the same against Steppenwolf above and below the sea and the movie didn't make mention once that he should be stronger or weaker on land.

Despite not being in the right mind set it didn't look like superman was going all out. He was basically toying with the league. He did take hits from Steppenwolf and that was impressive but that can only get him so far. Spider-man also took hits from thanos and Cull Obsdian in infinity war. Its not uncommon for characters to take hits from outside of there weight class.

As for performing similarly to wonder woman; people were saying wonder woman performed similarly against doomsday as superman, yet when they fought superman proved to be her superior. They might have similar levels of strength but there is a clear gap in speed when comparing wonder woman and aquaman. No way is Aquaman replicating what Diana did in the bank. Aquaman helped against Steppenwolf but I don't think that is different than spider-man helping iron man against Cull Obsidian.

Aquaman is consistently being written as in the tier that lets him hang with these guys. The submarine feat at best is just confirmation of how much of that is due to strength.

I didn't see that at all in his movie. The sub feat was good but none of his other feats aligned with that unless you count tanking hits from the Karathen which also coincidentally takes place under water...Admittedly I might take back the sub feat being an outlier if someone can show me a statement from James Wan saying he isn't stronger in the water than on land. However I still would view his feats as highly inconsistent.

Even if that feat was about "generating momentum" his body still had to flex and hold out against the sheer force being exerted between his supposed "Swimming power" and the submarine. Otherwise he'd squish himself under his own power.

As I said that is the only way I can rationalize it. But this is a good point.

What you're doing is like if I decided to completely dismiss Thor's feats with the forging of Stormbreaker because "Thor has never been that strong on land. He must clearly get stronger in space."

I have seen debates that the gravity of the forge were lesser than Earths gravity so to be honest that is something to consider if that is true. Regardless the difference being is aquaman is clearly depicted differently in the water. At the very least you can't argue that Aquaman was moving as fast on land like he was in the water. So if Aquaman is faster in the water why is it a stretch he is stronger as well? Half of Aquamans feats were high tier level and the other half are not. I think its a big coincidence that his only high tier feats take place in the water whereas his "low showings" take place on land or above water. That seems like a consistent pattern.

Let me put it this way: If Aquaman is a high tier out of the water what are his feats? It should be easy to prove if this was intended. The only thing I can think of is fighting Stepphenwolf but that isn't enough for me when I consider the fact that spider-man fought Cull Obsidian in infinity war with iron man, but lost to cap in civil war. For the record I do think Aquaman stomps cap or Bucky. But I do think MCU Black Panther and Spider-man can fight him and cases can be made for them. I think he only beats the latter due to experience and spider-man being incompetent in the MCU.

I can't wait for the home release at this point to prove the opposite....

He's both underestimated and overestimated.

He's not a million ton powerhouse though, otherwise he wouldn't struggle with like 12 tons of rubble.

Also he's well above Bucky

Lmao at comparing Thor in space vs on earth with Aquaman on land vs under water

X

@mrmonster: I mean, I definitely don't think BP can beat Arthur, but I'm asking this out of curiousity, can Aquaman's trident penetrate vibranium??

Lol. That'll be an interesting week on the Vine...

@jayc1324: not quite. Arthur didn't have his quindent which was what allowed him to harm steppenwolf. But as far as reaction time, si.

Also I just want to throw this out there: In another thread I was arguing a random Trench would kill cap. A point that someone in the thread made was that black manta grappled with Aquaman. I said that I assume Black Manta's suit augments his strength, and the user brought up the point that it was never stated that Manta's suit augments his strength.

Just because it wasn't stated Aquaman is stronger underwater doesn't make it not true; just like how black manta not being stated to have super strength doesn't mean he doesn't have super strength. Not everything gets spelled out to us.

Hes above street levelers but below Thor and Superman level characters imo.

No one ever said he can lift a million tons...

And how is this struggle?

Very, a lot of people think he is Captain America tier.

@jashro44:

I know. But that is still a large gap between that and lifting a submarine.

It is also a low showing compared to him tanking blasts from Black Manta's beam.

Despite not being in the right mind set it didn't look like superman was going all out. He was basically toying with the league. He did take hits from Steppenwolf and that was impressive but that can only get him so far. Spider-man also took hits from thanos and Cull Obsdian in infinity war. Its not uncommon for characters to take hits from outside of there weight class.

Sure, but the sub feat and later his feat of being smacked around by the Karathan confirm his durability and strength to be in that ballpark. Before Justice League we weren't sure exactly where he fit in, only that he could hold his own for a short time. Now we have a better idea of why that was.

I didn't see that at all in his movie. The sub feat was good but none of his other feats aligned with that unless you count tanking hits from the Karathen which also coincidentally takes place under water...Admittedly I might take back the sub feat being an outlier if someone can show me a statement from James Wan saying he isn't stronger in the water than on land. However I still would view his feats as highly inconsistent.

You've been on this site a lot longer than I have so I know you know this concept, but you can't ask me to provide evidence to dismiss your assumption. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the movie intended for Arthur to be weaker on land where it was never stated, even when it would have benefited the story to bring up. Arthur going to fight Steppenwolf on land would have been a way bigger deal if he was weaker up there. The movie even stated that Arthur had the advantage on Orm on land. Again if they were both weaker there this would have been an ideal time to say so.

If you want another feat in this ballpark Orm has a really good one. He tore open the side of a submarine by swimming past it with his trident. Maybe you could argue the trident was just super powerful, but he'd still need an incredible amount of strength to keep his grip on the thing against the force of the attack. The tridents weren't lightsabers after all.

I have seen debates that the gravity of the forge were lesser than Earths gravity so to be honest that is something to consider if that is true. Regardless the difference being is aquaman is clearly depicted differently in the water. At the very least you can't argue that Aquaman was moving as fast on land like he was in the water. So if Aquaman is faster in the water why is it a stretch he is stronger as well? Half of Aquamans feats were high tier level and the other half are not. I think its a big coincidence that his only high tier feats take place in the water whereas his "low showings" take place on land or above water. That seems like a consistent pattern.

Arthur is faster in the water because he gains his pseudo-flight underwater. He can't swim in the air. I suppose you could say it is a fantasized version of a shark being faster in the water than on land, but the shark is still a giant wad of muscle and teeth regardless.

Honestly I don't see why this is so different from any other comicbook movie character. Thor is dodging out of the way of cheap lasers or bullets in one scene then destroying a massive starship in another.

As for why they all happen above water. Because his biggest battles all happened underwater outside his fight with Black Manta round 2, and he didn't seem very nerfed there between tanking Manta's blasts and shoulder checking that massive bell. It also doesn't help that most of the fights in the movie were against other Atlanteans who are comparably strong.

Let me put it this way: If Aquaman is a high tier out of the water what are his feats? It should be easy to prove if this was intended. The only thing I can think of is fighting Stepphenwolf but that isn't enough for me when I consider the fact that spider-man fought Cull Obsidian in infinity war with iron man, but lost to cap in civil war. For the record I do think Aquaman stomps cap or Bucky. But I do think MCU Black Panther and Spider-man can fight him and cases can be made for them. I think he only beats the latter due to experience and spider-man being incompetent in the MCU.

To be fair the Spidey who lost to Cap was inexperienced. He hadn't had to fight a real battle yet.

As for Cull, didn't Spidey have the Iron-Spider suit at the time?

I guess my final point is that the Steppenwolf fight, plus the submarine feat, plus the Karathan fight, plus the way the movie itself explains his powers should be enough evidence that Aquaman is just as strong on land as in the water.

You can definitely make the case that he is more deadly in the water due to his pseudo-flight and aquatic telepathy, but saying his stats all arbitrarily drop will need some actual evidence to back it up.

Edit: That is weird... My quotes of you are complete in the post box but when I send them I only see half of each quote.

Edit 2: Also weird. Just editing the post fixed it. Didn't have to actually touch anything within the post.

A lot of people compare him with panther, Bucky ect which shouldn’t happe.

@metaljimmor: I feel that Vulko would've dropped something about his strength and durability getting amped underwater in that first training scene but all he talked about was swimming speed, maneuverability and senses.

@danlee2000: Toughto say, the trident of Atlan didn't really have any piercing feats. But then again, I don't think it matters in the ultimate course of the fight, Aquaman's raw power can win.

Exactly. Between two movies, both of which involve both undersea and land battles, if this was a thing it really should have been brought up by someone at some point. Not explaining a fundamental fact about how a character operates is a pretty big oversight.

@metaljimmor:

It is also a low showing compared to him tanking blasts from Black Manta's beam.

While the laser was powerful I don't think its has shown above street level output. Its best feat are destroying the bell tower and those rocks. Far away from being a threat to someone who can lift thousands of tons. So honestly Manta's laser seems more in line with the grenade than Aquaman lifting 20,000 tons.

So tanking Manta's lasers might be more impressive than the grenade feat it still is more in line with mid-tiers/street level. I don't picture that laser doing much to hulk or even abomination in the MCU.

Sure, but the sub feat and later his feat of being smacked around by the Karathan confirm his durability and strength to be in that ballpark. Before Justice League we weren't sure exactly where he fit in, only that he could hold his own for a short time. Now we have a better idea of why that was.

Well right now I am not convinced Aquaman is as strong on land like he is underwater.

You've been on this site a lot longer than I have so I know you know this concept, but you can't ask me to provide evidence to dismiss your assumption. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the movie intended for Arthur to be weaker on land where it was never stated, even when it would have benefited the story to bring up.

My proof are Aquamans showings. I need you to present proof against this. Whether it be showings that at all compare to the sub feat on land or a statement from someone with authority confirming Aquaman has the same strength on land and in the water.

Arthur going to fight Steppenwolf on land would have been a way bigger deal if he was weaker up there.

Well a couple of points:

1. James Wan might have went in a different direction than Zack Snyder when it comes to Aquamans powers. Things can chance between movies.
2. Aquaman is still strong on land. Its not impossible for a weaker character to fight a character that out classes them.

The movie even stated that Arthur had the advantage on Orm on land.

Orm would also be weaker on land.

Again if they were both weaker there this would have been an ideal time to say so.

Not everything gets spoon fed to fans. When asked about the black panther armbar instance Dwayne Mcduffie said that silver surfer was just pretending. No where in the comic is that stated. Sometimes you have to read in between the lines. Also as I said Manta was engaging Aquaman physically but he was never said to have super strength in the suit. I assume he does considering the way he engaged aquaman.

If you want another feat in this ballpark Orm has a really good one. He tore open the side of a submarine by swimming past it with his trident. Maybe you could argue the trident was just super powerful, but he'd still need an incredible amount of strength to keep his grip on the thing against the force of the attack. The tridents weren't lightsabers after all.

I would say Atlanteans in general are stronger underwater. Aquaman beat Orm on land as you said.

Arthur is faster in the water because he gains his pseudo-flight underwater. He can't swim in the air. I suppose you could say it is a fantasized version of a shark being faster in the water than on land, but the shark is still a giant wad of muscle and teeth regardless.

That was an example. Realistically people are faster at running than swimming as there is less resistance when running.

Honestly I don't see why this is so different from any other comicbook movie character. Thor is dodging out of the way of cheap lasers or bullets in one scene then destroying a massive starship in another.

Thor can be argued to have weak piercing resistance because he has shown a feat of bullets. However his blunt force durability is still quite high.

As for why they all happen above water. Because his biggest battles all happened underwater outside his fight with Black Manta round 2, and he didn't seem very nerfed there between tanking Manta's blasts and shoulder checking that massive bell. It also doesn't help that most of the fights in the movie were against other Atlanteans who are comparably strong.

I don't think tanking Manta's lasers is at all similar to being a class 100. That bell feat is impressive but honestly I can picture MCU Spider-man replicating it. He did hold a giant jet bridge. Even if Spider-man can't

To be fair the Spidey who lost to Cap was inexperienced. He hadn't had to fight a real battle yet.

Yes but my point is he is far off from being a high tier. I still consider him street level in the MCU. Just a really high street leveler.

As for Cull, didn't Spidey have the Iron-Spider suit at the time?

No he got it after when he was heading to space. All though I don't believe the iron spider suit augments his strength. Nothing really suggests that.

I guess my final point is that the Steppenwolf fight, plus the submarine feat, plus the Karathan fight, plus the way the movie itself explains his powers should be enough evidence that Aquaman is just as strong on land as in the water.

You can definitely make the case that he is more deadly in the water due to his pseudo-flight and aquatic telepathy, but saying his stats all arbitrarily drop will need some actual evidence to back it up.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I just don't see it the same way.

That user is clearly wrong considering that orm clearly mentioned "it's a advanced Atlantean armor" even the previous version of Atlantean armor can 2 shot someone who tanked Superman's punch!

@mrmonster: I believe Atlana's quindent was able to pierce steppenwolf. Atlan's trident should be able to do the same if not more. It is made of a stronger metal and broke orm's trident.

No

@jashro44:

While the laser was powerful I don't think its has shown above street level output. Its best feat are destroying the bell tower and those rocks. Far away from being a threat to someone who can lift thousands of tons. So honestly Manta's laser seems more in line with the grenade than Aquaman lifting 20,000 tons.

So tanking Manta's lasers might be more impressive than the grenade feat it still is more in line with mid-tiers/street level. I don't picture that laser doing much to hulk or even abomination in the MCU.

That depends on if you factor in the test shot where it vaporized a large rock formation or not. I personally do since that scene was clearly put there to show us the damage output of the tech he was being given.

I do understand why some would disregard it because the Bell Tower explosion wasn't as big, but honestly movies have wildly inconsistent explosions all the time. The scene was shot the way it was for a reason, and that reason was to show us how powerful the laser was.

My proof are Aquamans showings. I need you to present proof against this. Whether it be showings that at all compare to the sub feat on land or a statement from someone with authority confirming Aquaman has the same strength on land and in the water.

That isn't proof. That is you making a claim and using information with no direct correlation to your argument and saying it is proof. Aquaman having lower showings on land than in water can easily be chalked up to the standard level of inconsistencies you'll find in a superhero movie.

What you need for proof is Aquaman trying and failing to replicate one of his underwater feats. Failing to lift something comparable to the submarine or being crushed by an attack similar to the Karathan's strike. The best you have is being winded by a grenade in a scene meant to be funny, but that is one low showing in a sea (pun intended) of feats of trading blows with high tiers both below and above the waves.

Not everything gets spoon fed to fans.

This is a crucial piece of information about how his powers work from a movie that had an entire scene dedicated to explaining how his powers work. It is not simply wanting to be "spoon fed". It is needing basic information.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I just don't see it the same way.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

@metaljimmor:

That depends on if you factor in the test shot where it vaporized a large rock formation or not. I personally do since that scene was clearly put there to show us the damage output of the tech he was being given.

I do understand why some would disregard it because the Bell Tower explosion wasn't as big, but honestly movies have wildly inconsistent explosions all the time. The scene was shot the way it was for a reason, and that reason was to show us how powerful the laser was.

I am factoring that first feat in. I just don't think that is a high tier level feat. I guess it could be mid tier.

That isn't proof. That is you making a claim and using information with no direct correlation to your argument and saying it is proof. Aquaman having lower showings on land than in water can easily be chalked up to the standard level of inconsistencies you'll find in a superhero movie.

What you need for proof is Aquaman trying and failing to replicate one of his underwater feats. Failing to lift something comparable to the submarine or being crushed by an attack similar to the Karathan's strike. The best you have is being winded by a grenade in a scene meant to be funny, but that is one low showing in a sea (pun intended) of feats of trading blows with high tiers both below and above the waves.

I see things differently. I think there is a consistent trend and I think its fair to use that trend as proof. Regardless as I said it could be that Aquaman is inconsistent.

@jashro44:

I'd argue mid-tier for that blast, which is where I place Arthur anyway. Very few street levelers would be able to take a direct hit from it and keep going.

I disagree with the trend chiefly because of the Steppenwolf fight. If anything Arthur did better against Steppenwolf above ground than he did in the water, which is consistent with what the Aquaman movie tells us if he is more skilled on land and doesn't suffer a stat debuff.

He just doesn't have a ton of clear cut land feats right now. Unless I see him really struggle to perform a strength feat on land or a character finally states he is weaker on land I'm inclined to go with the assumption neutral position of "His biology doesn't change every time he takes a bath".

@metaljimmor: I think we just have different viewpoints. You brought up some good points but I still disagree. Good discussion.

I didn't even notice it at the movies but apparently he can summon lighting with his new trident.

@jashro44:

I can understand where you're coming from as well. Hopefully the sequel will paint a more clear picture of what he can do.

When was this?

@mrmonster: you're right about him being much stronger than BP but really no one except for Thanos has been able to actually knock out Tchalla while he was in the suit. He could easily tank all other attacks thanks to his vibranium suit. I think maybe, just maybe, BP could do more damage to Aquaman with his vibranium claws and kinetic blast(as it was able to knock out Cull Obsidian for a while) before Aquaman does enough damage to actually knock out Tchalla in the suit. But I do agree it would be logical to say that Aquaman would beat BP in most cases