So its only culturally exclusive to Africans? Seems a bit of a massive leap in judgement to say that only Africans can get some cultural significance out of a superhero movie of all things. The main thing I don't seem to understand is the irrational thought process behind it. I mean, that doesn't stop me from finding it funny in retrospect.
What's funny is that I never said nor implied any of this. I'm laughing with you, though....
Its not a problem. Unless you have some personal standing with Djimon and his son that statement affects you in no possible way. The only person who seems to have a problem with that statement, is you and a small vocal minority who are bent on making every minor issue related to fictional characters race related. I get some people need hobbies, but this isn't the best way to spend free time on small insecurities of what people may think or feel.
It is, and Djimon thinks so too. But again, you wouldn't understand....
I didn't ask for your ethnic background though and you have no way of definitively proving it otherwise. So it leaves both of us at an impasse for another red-herring you've concocted out of nowhere. Why?
That's because you generalized (with no way of proving it), saying that Africans don't care or identify with Black Panther. Yet, this African and his family are doing the opposite of what you're saying. You could even do a Google search and find that people in Africa are fans of the movie. But, your head is shoved so far up wherever the sun doesn't shine to see that.
Wakandans are not Nigerians. The music being used in the film varies from urban, to rap, epic style of music and even some generic African music placement for two scenes in the film. The way the Wakandans dress is their own culture, and its not yours. Its fictional.
Like I said above, numerous African cultures, customs, and dialects were used to shape Wakanda in the film. Nigerian culture and customs is one of those things.
Everyone knows Wakanda is fictional. But, you're asking stupid questions about how Nigerian people relate to Wakanda as if we believe Wakanda is a real place or something. The culture in Wakanda actually represents real-life African cultures. You're trying to play around when you've really been playing yourself this whole time.
It takes influence from many facets and even the fictional one its inspired by in Marvel Comics. Do you have solid proof that Nigerian culture is the main one or even the one used for the movie?
Yeah, many facets that are actual real-life African cultures and customs. Check the link above since you don't know how to use search engines and would rather live in your ignorance.
I never said I was better than they were, you gotta start putting that Nigerian education to good use friend. I even explicitly said I don't care what people take from the movie, doesn't stop me from discussing it. You called out something that had no meaning behind it, in a cute attempt of salvaging whatever point you've been trying to make. Congrats.
That's exactly what you said. You seemed to care a lot, which is why you're still here talking to me.
Is is by your own admission that MLK wasn't the peaceful man I was attributing to him as and that he was something else according to you. But, why would a Nigerian know anything about an individual from the US especially when they're attributing traits to him that weren't there? I guess it all adds up.
That's because this Nigerian does his research and knows more about MLK than you.
I was telling you that there was more to MLK, Jr. than you thought and that he somewhat changed after Malcolm X was killed. It doesn't mean he wasn't peaceful, angry or irrational. You attributed those traits to him, not me. But, of course, that would be typical of someone like you, who's been lied to or kept in the dark about everything that MLK was about.
@masterskywalker: As for music, Ludwig Goransson did his research on African music also. He went on tour with a Senegalese musician to learn more about it. He wasn't pulling generic African sounds or whatever out of nowhere. There's more. Watch the video if you're interested.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
In response to this and your last post to me, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I was saying that others would disagree. That's all.
Nakia may look like the hero, but it took Killmonger for T'Challa to act. So, I'd say that he's influenced by both of them.
All antagonists force the protagonist to act. Joker forces Batman to act, Doomsday forces Superman to act, Killmonger forces BP to act... but that doesn't justify their actions. Anyone can make Killmonger out to be a nuanced anti-hero, but unless they provide a single example to back up their theories, he is basic. I've read that Killmonger was "willing" to sacrifice his girlfriend. No he killed her without remorse, simple as that. I've read he was "willing to do anything for the greater good of his people." No. He immediately and selfishly put his people in harm's way for no reason other than his own warmongering. If anyone has actually made a good case to the contrary let me know, but telling me to google it and find myself is a nonstarter when my premise is that his actions are inexcusable from start to finish.
I liked the movie, as I like all MCU movies, but IMO this was in the bottom half, quality wise. I have not really seen anyone comment on how formulaic it felt at the end. It had the same hokey, sentimental feel that a dozen other huge box office films of the last 35 years had when the cavalry arrived unexpectedly in the nick of time to save the day. I have to say though that I did not see it coming only because MCU movies have never been formulaic and overly predictable before, and I didn't think it would start here. There were other formulaic feeling moments towards the end as well. I truly hope that Infinity War does not go in a formulaic direction. I cringe when I think that it could.
I give it 7 out of 10. I would give in 8.5 out of 10 if not for the hokem towards the end.
I would have to give it a 9.5 or 10 out of 10 to say that it is not over rated.
In response to this and your last post to me, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I was saying that others would disagree. That's all.
Nakia may look like the hero, but it took Killmonger for T'Challa to act. So, I'd say that he's influenced by both of them.
All antagonists force the protagonist to act. Joker forces Batman to act, Doomsday forces Superman to act, Killmonger forces BP to act... but that doesn't justify their actions. Anyone can make Killmonger out to be a nuanced anti-hero, but unless they provide a single example to back up their theories, he is basic. I've read that Killmonger was "willing" to sacrifice his girlfriend. No he killed her without remorse, simple as that. I've read he was "willing to do anything for the greater good of his people." No. He immediately and selfishly put his people in harm's way for no reason other than his own warmongering. If anyone has actually made a good case to the contrary let me know, but telling me to google it and find myself is a nonstarter when my premise is that his actions are inexcusable from start to finish.
I wasn't telling you to Google anything. I was talking to the other guy.
Anyway, I can't say whether or not Killmonger was right or wrong, but intentions are the result of his circumstances. His father was killed by his uncle and he was left behind in the ghetto. He became a product of his environment. This is something that a lot of Black people who live in low-income communities deal with. In a lot of cases, circumstances motivate people through certain walks of life. Circumstance has an impact on the choices we make, although it doesn't make us any less responsible for those choices. Anyway, he felt like Wakanda was obligated to help the Black community deal with decades of racism and oppression, but instead, they did nothing. So, to him, the best way to fight against oppression was to use the same tactics that White people have used throughout history to colonize foreign countries: violence. Some articles (and a lot of people) state that they feel Killmonger's intentions are justified, based on this. Other people feel as if Killmonger's desire to free Black people is good, but that his execution was not. If you ask me, I think that because of his circumstances, he's a relatable villain and easy to sympathize with. But, his plan to rise up against oppression and build an empire does show some power-hungriness (which was supported by W'Kabi's notion that the rest of the world was catching up to Wakanda in technology). With that, I'm a bit indifferent about his execution.
His morality is debatable. Sure, he killed hundreds of people. But, royal Wakandans have been killing each other in ritual combat for thousands of years. Killmonger killed as a soldier, mostly, to prepare himself to be a king. Wakandans killed each other to pick a king. No one is better here. Also, when compared to T'Challa, Killmonger had a plan for ruling an entire nation. T'Challa had no plan of his own (he told his father in the afterlife to tell him how to rule), and was complacent in carrying out what all other kings have been doing for centuries. T'Chaka also stated that it is difficult for a good man to be king, which kinda illustrated T'Challa's situation as a monarch. Killmonger, however, didn't have that issue. His first name, Erik, is Germanic for "eternal ruler" or "honorable king"... Sliding off topic for a bit.
Magneto's first name is also Erik. His motivations, in the beginning, are the result of mutant oppression. For a lot of reasons, Magneto and Killmonger at the same.
Considering what their names mean, it could be possible that these were created for the potential to be better leaders or rulers than those that are already in power, because they are willing to do what most wouldn't. Being a king and a conqueror comes with casualties. Violence is a way of life, regardless of morality.
Is it this revolutionary cultural movie for black people? LOL No.
I would say otherwise. Granted, there were a lot of movies with Black people that had a lot of impact. This one would be considered as such. It may not be the first Black superhero film, but it's a Black superhero film that has the most representation of Black people in it, which is pretty rare. We don't get represented as much in Hollywood, and also, the way Black people are portrayed in Hollywood can be pretty stereotypical, most of the time. Black Panther portrays Black people in a different light, mainly positive. We don't have to be gangstas, drug lords, slaves, strung out on crack, token, deadbeats, etc, etc in feature films all of the time...
Lack of white people, lgbt and muslims in Wakanda disturbed me.
Lack of White people? Dude.... The movie takes place in an isolationist African country in the eastern part of the continent, not South Africa. LMAO. LGBT? It's unfortunate that this wasn't touched upon in the film, but the lack of it isn't a disturbing thing. LGBT should be represented in film, but not be forced. Muslims? The central religion in the movie is the worship of an Egyptian god/goddess.
There was nothing racist about this movie. The problem is that you couldn't relate to the film, like I said earlier.
Yeah, well so does Beauty and the Beast take place in 17 century France and every other person was black.
Yeah, well so does Beauty and the Beast take place in 17 century France and every other person was black.
That's because, historically, 17th century France actually had Black people... They were called Moors. You can stop being a troll now. Disney does their research. You should too....
What's funny is that I never said nor implied any of this. I'm laughing with you, though....
You've been arguing this point for pages now extensively? Are you backtracking? I thought you'd stick by your creeds at least....
It is, and Djimon thinks so too. But again, you wouldn't understand....
Djimon can handle how he thinks or perceives his flesh and flood. That doesn't apply to me or you and even then I find it to be an example of people making a bigger deal out of something than there needs to be. I've heard whites say the exact same thing about darker skinned individuals saying they'd wanna be that color because they envy it. Nobody gives much thought to it, the problem only seems to stem from insecure individuals who are still stick on race so much.
That's because you generalized (with no way of proving it), saying that Africans don't care or identify with Black Panther. Yet, this African and his family are doing the opposite of what you're saying. You could even do a Google search and find that people in Africa are fans of the movie. But, your head is shoved so far up wherever the sun doesn't shine to see that.
No, you truly need to learn the definition of a generalization. And directing me to random Youtube reactions of people who likely fit the demographic I'm referring to is not enough evidence to suggest this movie is some cultural phenomenon. I just can't take them or you seriously in this matter.
Like I said above, numerous African cultures, customs, and dialects were used to shape Wakanda in the film. Nigerian culture and customs is one of those things.
Numerous cultures and a fictional one where used in one massive melting pot to give Wakanda some sense of identity to separate it from others. Its an entire plot point of the movie. So my point still stands, the only ones who truly get something out of this movie don't understand that within the movies context it was meant to be its own ethnic standing and the irrational cult following is just that.
Everyone knows Wakanda is fictional. But, you're asking stupid questions about how Nigerian people relate to Wakanda as if we believe Wakanda is a real place or something. The culture in Wakanda actually represents real-life African cultures. You're trying to play around when you've really been playing yourself this whole time.
You'd know if I was playing. I treat this issue with a degree of concern mainly because its lead to a divisive stance on the Internet with fans of the movie getting upset by any dissenting opinions over it. There is no right or wrong on how you like or dislike the movie, there is however an obnoxious fanaticism involved with praising the movie. Thats why I'm here.
Yeah, many facets that are actual real-life African cultures and customs. Check the link above since you don't know how to use search engines and would rather live in your ignorance.
No, I asked you several times since the burden of proof falls on you, to prove the claims you kept regurgitating without evidence. And you still continue to do it.
That's exactly what you said. You seemed to care a lot, which is why you're still here talking to me.
This is quite ironic from someone whos been so involved on this particular thread. Don't deflect your own insecurities onto me please. I can still engage other users around here, but find the process amusing for a brief moment or two.
That's because this Nigerian does his research and knows more about MLK than you.
No, the supposed Nigerian has made a conscious effort to develop poor arguments and baseless claims that had no foundation or logic behind it. Good job.
I was telling you that there was more to MLK, Jr. than you thought and that he somewhat changed after Malcolm X was killed. It doesn't mean he wasn't peaceful, angry or irrational. You attributed those traits to him, not me. But, of course, that would be typical of someone like you, who's been lied to or kept in the dark about everything that MLK was about.
Again, anybody who has passed 4th grade is well aware of the stances MLK made especially in the Internet age. Acting as an echo chamber for something like that really doesn't do much to help your overall point here.
@masterskywalker: As for music, Ludwig Goransson did his research on African music also. He went on tour with a Senegalese musician to learn more about it. He wasn't pulling generic African sounds or whatever out of nowhere. There's more. Watch the video if you're interested.
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I did like the music in the movie. So I'll agree with that.
You've been arguing this point for pages now extensively? Are you backtracking? I thought you'd stick by your creeds at least....
One you again, you can't read. I didn't say that this was "culturally exclusive" to Africans. You said that. The cultural connection you're talking about isn't the same as the culture connection I'm talking about about. If you're not Black, you wouldn't understand the connection. That's why you brought up things like nerd culture and stuff, which I'm not even talking about. If that's how you connect to things, cool. That's on you or whoever. I'm talking about culture pertaining to Black people, whether they are of African descent or not. Those that are not Black, likely wouldn't understand. Like you.
Remember when I said that the director's race mattered? That a White director wouldn't be able to connect to said characters culturally, and why Blade, Hancock, and Steel have no cultural significance? Chadwick Boseman said this.
Djimon can handle how he thinks or perceives his flesh and flood. That doesn't apply to me or you and even then I find it to be an example of people making a bigger deal out of something than there needs to be. I've heard whites say the exact same thing about darker skinned individuals saying they'd wanna be that color because they envy it. Nobody gives much thought to it, the problem only seems to stem from insecure individuals who are still stick on race so much.
Dude, it's pretty simple. The lack of representation is the reason why his son wants to be White like Spider-Man. If there were more Black superheroes in feature films and all other mainstream media around for young Black children to look up to, he wouldn't want to be White like Spider-Man. That's literally the point. Black children would value themselves more.
I don't really give a shit what White people about say about wanting to be darker-skinned individuals. That's their problem, even though White people have the most representation in mainstream media, anyway.
No, you truly need to learn the definition of a generalization. And directing me to random Youtube reactions of people who likely fit the demographic I'm referring to is not enough evidence to suggest this movie is some cultural phenomenon. I just can't take them or you seriously in this matter.
Nah, you generalized. It is what it is. You said that Africans don't care or don't relate to Black Panther and that it doesn't resonate with Africans culturally, yet the movie has a positive reception in South Africa among Black Africans, based on the link I provided and two Africans posted a Youtube video, showing that they were clearly excited for the film before it even came out. Here, another video showing a celebration of the film's release in South Africa, and some of the actors, who are African, are explaining the cultural significance of the film. When you're finished, you'll tell me again how I'm not proving my claims or how Africans don't care or relate to the film, which was based on absolutely nothing other than the fact that you lack an understanding of culture pertaining to Black people, African or not.
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Numerous cultures and a fictional one where used in one massive melting pot to give Wakanda some sense of identity to separate it from others.
The numerous cultures used to develop Wakanda for the silver screen are how people like me and other Africans connect to the film from a culture perspective. Everyone knows the movie's context or what Wakanda is all about within the plot, apart from that. It isn't rocket science. Continue to act like we're stupid.
You'd know if I was playing.
You are, and you've already stated that this conversation is amusing. Please, don't play dumb now.
No, I asked you several times since the burden of proof falls on you, to prove the claims you kept regurgitating without evidence. And you still continue to do it.
Proof has been provided. You've been dismissive. But, hey. Let's back track....
Like I said above, numerous African cultures, customs, and dialects were used to shape Wakanda in the film. Nigerian culture and customs is one of those things.
You said that Africans don't care or relate to Black Panther, and I provided videos and links to show otherwise.
This is quite ironic from someone whos been so involved on this particular thread. Don't deflect your own insecurities onto me please. I can still engage other users around here, but find the process amusing for a brief moment or two.
There's no irony. LOL. You care just as much as I do, which is why you're still here, engaging me.
No, the supposed Nigerian has made a conscious effort to develop poor arguments and baseless claims that had no foundation or logic behind it. Good job.
The evidence you asked for and received is still here. It'll be here when you're finally able to pull your head out of your butt and acknowledge it. :)
Again, anybody who has passed 4th grade is well aware of the stances MLK made especially in the Internet age. Acting as an echo chamber for something like that really doesn't do much to help your overall point here.
Okay, well let me know when you pass the fourth grade, because you're the one who didn't know about MLK's fight for the economical freedom of Black people. You were oblivious to it this whole time, and you even posted an image of MLK's "content of character over color of skin" stuff to make me look bad, when MLK cared about skin color (as well as the social and financial well-being of the Black community) just as much as I do, which was kinda the point. You wrote him off as an angry Black man in response, and tried to tell me that "I'm attributing traits to him that weren't there," and that I'm not likely to be Nigerian because of my knowledge on MLK or whatever you were trying to insinuate there. Funny thing is, YOU brought MLK into this discussion. Not me.
Please, watch the videos I posted for him, or you can continue to repeat the fourth grade....
Gonna go see it this weekend. I have a feeling it might be critically overrated, like all Marvel movies are, but I don't think it'll be bad. I'm expecting it to be OK and enjoyable.
Yeah, well so does Beauty and the Beast take place in 17 century France and every other person was black.
That's because, historically, 17th century France actually had Black people... They were called Moors. You can stop being a troll now. Disney does their research. You should too....
France in 17th century had 0-1% black population, last Moors existed in Spain until early 1600's before they were all wiped out. You can link me pages about Moors in France, I stopped trolling after my comment about white representation in Wakanda. Of course there shoudn't be whites in Wakanda. But there were neither blacks in 17th century France, or Europe as a whole. Except maybe in Balkans because Turks brought them from north Africa.
France in 17th century had 0-1% black population, last Moors existed in Spain until early 1600's before they were all wiped out. You can link me pages about Moors in France, I stopped trolling after my comment about white representation in Wakanda. Of course there shoudn't be whites in Wakanda. But there were neither blacks in 17th century France, or Europe as a whole. Except maybe in Balkans because Turks brought them from north Africa.
It was a good movie, but it's not nearly as good as many people are making it out to be. It had quite a few plot holes, and some very nonsensical writing. I also wasn't particularly fond of the CGI, and I don't think Killmonger is nearly as good of a villain as people make him out to be.
One you again, you can't read. I didn't say that this was "culturally exclusive" to Africans. You said that. The cultural connection you're talking about isn't the same as the culture connection I'm talking about about. If you're not Black, you wouldn't understand the connection. That's why you brought up things like nerd culture and stuff, which I'm not even talking about. If that's how you connect to things, cool. That's on you or whoever. I'm talking about culture pertaining to Black people, whether they are of African descent or not. Those that are not Black, likely wouldn't understand. Like you.
You did though, several pages ago. And why would someone have to be black to understand a cultural connection? Especially one for a movie backdrop like Wakanda. You're using a lot of scapegoats here that have no connection or meaning to one another. Maybe we're both thinking of entirely different stances, but I digress. My race is completely irrelevant to the topic here and to assume ones race on the internet makes you sound leagues more ignorant than you already are. Don't jump to conclusions.
Remember when I said that the director's race mattered? That a White director wouldn't be able to connect to said characters culturally, and why Blade, Hancock, and Steel have no cultural significance? Chadwick Boseman said this.
Yes I remembered. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. A directors background or skin color has no impact on their ability to accurately portray a country's culture in full or use it as points of reference. Coogler doesn't hail from any African countires and you don't have to be a certain skin color to understand the struggles of other races and ethnicity. And even in your own quote Chadwick says he isn't sure. How about, instead of throwing out random assumptions and fallacies we use a bit of common sense here...
Dude, it's pretty simple. The lack of representation is the reason why his son wants to be White like Spider-Man. If there were more Black superheroes in feature films and all other mainstream media around for young Black children to look up to, he wouldn't want to be White like Spider-Man. That's literally the point. Black children would value themselves more.
And I'm telling you that people claiming theres no representation is a bullshit and superficial/petty reason to not invest in a superhero. Y'know theres more backgrounds for people who have less representation than blacks do in comics, but you don't see them bitching and moaning that a hero isn't the exact same color, religion, culture etc. Black kids should value themselves on their character, not because a flying guy in a costume just so happens to have the same color that they do. I feel like this might be a personal issue for you, because if you didn't value yourself before becoming invested in a black superhero thats pretty damn insecure. And you're gonna have to work on that.
I don't really give a shit what White people about say about wanting to be darker-skinned individuals. That's their problem, even though White people have the most representation in mainstream media, anyway.
Why so hostile towards whites? I would think you'd value that they'd want to like you. Thats a pity. I mean without whites like Stan Lee/Kevin Feige or others you wouldn't have this movie in the first place. Maybe, you should show a little respect instead of acting like an ungrateful child? I dunno, it would be a start.
Nah, you generalized. It is what it is. You said that Africans don't care or don't relate to Black Panther and that it doesn't resonate with Africans culturally, yet the movie has a positive reception in South Africa among Black Africans, based on the link I provided and two Africans posted a Youtube video, showing that they were clearly excited for the film before it even came out. Here, another video showing a celebration of the film's release in South Africa, and some of the actors, who are African, are explaining the cultural significance of the film. When you're finished, you'll tell me again how I'm not proving my claims or how Africans don't care or relate to the film, which was based on absolutely nothing other than the fact that you lack an understanding of culture pertaining to Black people, African or not.
As I said before, anybody with a hint of common sense could see I never generalized a single demographic here. And directing me to random Youtube reactions of paid actors or fanatics saying this movie was somehow the second coming of Christ is also not evidence.
The numerous cultures used to develop Wakanda for the silver screen are how people like me and other Africans connect to the film from a culture perspective. Everyone knows the movie's context or what Wakanda is all about within the plot, apart from that. It isn't rocket science. Continue to act like we're stupid.
And thats fine if you connect with the film, I said before nobody is stopping you from worshiping it. My whole point, is how that cultural backdrop and its overall effect on the audience is being vastly overrated by a loud and mostly hilarious vocal minority that you belong to. I don't have to act like you guys are, because in this case your actions speak for themselves.
You are, and you've already stated that this conversation is amusing. Please, don't play dumb now.
I can find a conversation amusing and still take it with a degree of severity. Or I can find the person regaling me with false facts amusing. Its not that black and white.
Proof has been provided. You've been dismissive. But, hey. Let's back track....
You asked this...
It hasn't though.
Like I said above, numerous African cultures, customs, and dialects were used to shape Wakanda in the film. Nigerian culture and customs is one of those things.
You said that Africans don't care or relate to Black Panther, and I provided videos and links to show otherwise.
Never said that either. My entire selling point of this conversation wasn't that people don't relate to this movie. Its that people who place the random and thrown in "cultural" references, clothing, music etc are kidding themselves by putting it on such a high pedestal. Theres been plenty of movies featuring African culture and music and to my recent memory only a superhero one manages to get this much attention.
There's no irony. LOL. You care just as much as I do, which is why you're still here, engaging me.
No, I really don't. Maybe I find your apologist efforts at defending the film cute and amusing. Maybe I find the topic interesting to talk about. But I don't care much for it in the overall bigger picture on the Internet.
You might have a lot of passion for Comic Vine disagreements, but I don't.
The evidence you asked for and received is still here. It'll be here when you're finally able to pull your head out of your butt and acknowledge it. :)
It really isn't here. Maybe instead of doing this I would be more susceptible to credible and informed posts you make.
Okay, well let me know when you pass the fourth grade, because you're the one who didn't know about MLK's fight for the economical freedom of Black people. You were oblivious to it this whole time, and you even posted an image of MLK's "content of character over color of skin" stuff to make me look bad, when MLK cared about skin color (as well as the social and financial well-being of the Black community) just as much as I do, which was kinda the point. You wrote him off as an angry Black man in response, and tried to tell me that "I'm attributing traits to him that weren't there," and that I'm not likely to be Nigerian because of my knowledge on MLK or whatever you were trying to insinuate there. Funny thing is, YOU brought MLK into this discussion. Not me.
No mate, I posted a quote for MLK pertaining to your comment about how skin color only matters and it went completely over your head. Everybody is familiar with MLK's stances and actions he took for the betterment of civil rights. Which is why I said in my comment Why would you of a Nigerian background have any competent thoughts on a topic of an American figurehead? Its like someone from Brazil thinking he knows Ghandi and claiming it on a website by posting things that others already knew about.
I don't expect someone from another country to fully grasp a figure from another one. Maybe its from the educational system in your country of descent, but I didn't expect you to convey this point intelligently. The country is known for their poor education system and it certainly shows in you.
Not to interrupt what has been a very interesting conversation, however: I hate the days of "is this overrated"?
No, I don't think it is. I find if a strong majority can agree to loving it, critics love it, a fan audience loves it, and it's being loved everywhere within good reason; it comes down to usually the person thinking it's overrated just not liking the movie and trying to find fault with opinion.
I think Black Panther was something fresh to not only the comic book movie scene but movies in general. I really loved it.
I don't expect someone from another country to fully grasp a figure from another one. Maybe its from the educational system in your country of descent, but I didn't expect you to convey this point intelligently. The country is known for their poor education system and it certainly shows in you.
Warning and 3 day ban for veiled insults. You are essentially calling the user stupid (and seem to be implying its because he is Nigerian?). This is also your final warning.
And why would someone have to be black to understand a cultural connection?
You have to have first-hand experience with culture to understand the connection. You have to belong. Why do you think Blade, Hancock, and Steel have no cultural significance and how does that relate to the directors of those films? But, yeah. Maybe we do have entirely different stances.
Hell, I have an appreciation for Japanese culture. The history. The dialect, even though I can't speak it. Their customs. Their code of honor. Their fighting styles. Their music. In spite of that, I don't fully understand the culture because I don't belong to it.
Yes I remembered. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. A directors background or skin color has no impact on their ability to accurately portray a country's culture in full or use it as points of reference. Coogler doesn't hail from any African countires and you don't have to be a certain skin color to understand the struggles of other races and ethnicity. And even in your own quote Chadwick says he isn't sure. How about, instead of throwing out random assumptions and fallacies we use a bit of common sense here...
It actually does have an impact, whether you want to believe it or not. Coogler not coming from an African country is besides the point. He's Black, and his ancestors are likely from an African country. In order to understand what people of color go through, you would have to be a person of color. Otherwise, you'll never truly understand. You can be empathetic and shit, it could make sense, but that's it. You have to experience something to truly understand it.
The same quote also stated that a White director probably wouldn't be able to direct Black Panther from Coogler's perspective because a White director's version of the film wouldn't be as nuanced as Coogler's due to not having the conflict of tracing one's ancestry back to Africa. Yeah, a White director could make a Black Panther film, but it wouldn't have a similar perspective. You didn't even read the whole thing. More and more Black Americans are trying to trace their roots back to Africa to see where they descended from.
And I'm telling you that people claiming theres no representation is a bullshit and superficial/petty reason to not invest in a superhero. Y'know theres more backgrounds for people who have less representation than blacks do in comics, but you don't see them bitching and moaning that a hero isn't the exact same color, religion, culture etc. Black kids should value themselves on their character, not because a flying guy in a costume just so happens to have the same color that they do. I feel like this might be a personal issue for you, because if you didn't value yourself before becoming invested in a black superhero thats pretty damn insecure. And you're gonna have to work on that.
No one is claiming that there isn't representation. We're saying that there isn't enough. How would YOU know if people of other races and backgrounds don't have an issue with there being less representation for them? How do you know that, when you don't even care about stuff like this? It's easy for you to write this shit off as "bitching and moaning." Yet, you're asking me "why would someone would have to Black to understand, herr, herr, herr...." Here, let me show you something.
All it takes is a simple Google search. You presume to know what people don't express concern about, when you really don't know shit. As for me, I don't require a Black superhero to value myself. I was doing that before I discovered Black Panther and whatnot. I would just like to see more characters that I can identify with and relate to. It's not about insecurities. This is what I mean by you not understanding a thing about this. Children are very impressionable, if you haven't noticed. They are fascinated by superhero themes and concepts. They should want to be able to connect with and envision themselves as fictional characters that look like them. But, you're worried about character and dismissing race? You sound like one of those kids that grew up believing the bullshit that his first grade teacher taught him about "focusing on how everyone is the same, and not different" or "how we should be colorblind to race." Newsflash: Race is an important part of who we are, even if you don't think so.
Why so hostile towards whites? I would think you'd value that they'd want to like you. Thats a pity. I mean without whites like Stan Lee/Kevin Feige or others you wouldn't have this movie in the first place. Maybe, you should show a little respect instead of acting like an ungrateful child? I dunno, it would be a start.
Hostility? LOL. Nah, bruh. You have it confused. If they want to be like us (which is something that a lot of White people already have an issue with, anyway), that's cool. But, I generally don't give a shit about that. That has more to do with them than us.
As I said before, anybody with a hint of common sense could see I never generalized a single demographic here.
It's that people who place the random and thrown in "cultural" references, clothing, music etc are kidding themselves by putting it on such a high pedestal. Theres been plenty of movies featuring African culture and music and to my recent memory only a superhero one manages to get this much attention.
It's getting this much attention because it has a lot of representation for Black people in it, which is pretty rare for a superhero film. It's simple. Most Black superheroes in film are token, like the ones you mentioned. Blade. Hancock. Steel. Even Spawn. Falcon, too, in both two Captain America films. Cyborg also.
No mate, I posted a quote for MLK pertaining to your comment about how skin color only matters and it went completely over your head. Everybody is familiar with MLK's stances and actions he took for the betterment of civil rights. Which is why I said in my comment Why would you of a Nigerian background have any competent thoughts on a topic of an American figurehead? Its like someone from Brazil thinking he knows Ghandi and claiming it on a website by posting things that others already knew about.
Yes, everyone knows about his fight for Civil Rights. No shit. I'm saying that you didn't know (and you admitted that you didn't know) about the other things that he was prepared to do exclusively for Black people, and there's enough evidence to prove it. Apparently, race mattered to MLK too, which is the point I'm making here. If race didn't matter, those videos and interviews he had on economical freedom for Black people wouldn't exist. He wouldn't care to have that kind of fight just for Black people. That's what makes this shit so funny, you thinking that I don't have a clue. Where I'm from originally doesn't mean I'm less educated on what MLK was all about. There are a lot of people here in the US that don't know everything, because of the historical narrative that most institutions push about MLK. They don't tell you everything about MLK in school or in other institutions. They don't even tell you everything he fought for in African-American studies courses in college. You didn't even have a clue.
I don't expect someone from another country to fully grasp a figure from another one.
That's perfectly fine. Your expectations or lack thereof are your business.
Please, tell me something I don't know. Did you read any of the articles? A lot of schools there aren't getting funded by the government like they should be, and those schools have collapsed over the years. That's why a lot of kids aren't in school. There's a lot of corruption and greed going on in the Nigerian government, also, which could be one of the causes of this. This is why a lot of Nigerians come to the US, for better opportunities for themselves and their children. But, millions of others don't have the luxury of coming here to get a better education.
I also didn't go to school in Nigeria. But, I applaud your attempt...
France in 17th century had 0-1% black population, last Moors existed in Spain until early 1600's before they were all wiped out. You can link me pages about Moors in France, I stopped trolling after my comment about white representation in Wakanda. Of course there shoudn't be whites in Wakanda. But there were neither blacks in 17th century France, or Europe as a whole. Except maybe in Balkans because Turks brought them from north Africa.
Hold that thought. I'll get back to you later.
And btw I watched the movie. After I wrote my first comment, and I liked it. Among top 5 of MCU if you ask me.
When the it's being praised higher than it should be, look I don't care how much anyone likes a film, good for them, I liked BP it was good movie, but people need to stop shoving their love for this film in my face, it's all I've been seeing since it came out. For example these types of threads have been made, (Should Michael B. Jordan win an oscar) (Is BP Best Picture worthy?) and the answer to both are an easy no.
Overrated as sin. Still an enjoyable movie that I liked, but it's not the best movie of all time or even the best MCU/CB film. It's not Oscar worthy and it has flaws, yet giving this movie even the slightest of criticism makes you a bona fide racist somehow. The fact that it's even being considered "culturally impactful" and worthy of a national film registration in the first place is utter lunacy.
No but the ads are really starting to annoy and irritate me. Ok we get it, it was great, dont need to keep rubbing it in 3 weeks in a damn row now. Jeez.
Assuming that you live in the United States, you realize that this country is diverse. It’s not just White folks that live here. Why wouldn’t we represent people of color, too? White folks shouldn’t have to be the default most of the time.
Nigeria makes movies, too. I can’t speak for the other countries, but why would they represent Whites or Asians when their population is homogenous? Why doesn’t Japan represent Whites or Blacks in their movies? Same answer. Nigeria also hasn’t had a Civil War in decades.
Yes, im the movies biggest fan,already seen it 4 times and loved it every time, but as soon as Rotten Tomatoes named it #1 movie of all time, I knew it was time to chill out. Still amazing tho
Most boring and overrated marvel movie.Worst marvel CGI.And most importantly politically influenced.Among Top 10 marvel movies but not masterpiece.Just dumb idiots afraid to give honest opinion.Ive been watching Marvel movies for 10 yrs this was just average movie.and I loved how people who were just giving opinions were called racist.LOL The movie was just fine.Doesnt deserve to be 100% rated. I'm Asian and IDGAF about political BS.Just comic lover.
@opisthotonos12: dude firstly you're an ass clown for claiming to know the hearts minds and motivations of 353 RT film critics who do this for a living. Dumb idiots - you seem very angry that people are liking this film. Maybe you have some deeper personal issues with this film than you are revealing. Angry any film with a black cast is getting praise? bitter much
And who cares if you care about politics? The movie can talk about whatever it wants - who are you? Thankfully most people don't agree with someone as close minded and simple as yourself.
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