it really really is... the CGI was atrocious and honestly Kilmonger was a walking black supremacist (but we should all feel bad for him) its a 7/10 at best.
Lack of white people, lgbt and muslims in Wakanda disturbed me.
Lack of White people? Dude.... The movie takes place in an isolationist African country in the eastern part of the continent, not South Africa. LMAO. LGBT? It's unfortunate that this wasn't touched upon in the film, but the lack of it isn't a disturbing thing. LGBT should be represented in film, but not be forced. Muslims? The central religion in the movie is the worship of an Egyptian god/goddess.
There was nothing racist about this movie. The problem is that you couldn't relate to the film, like I said earlier.
Lack of white people, lgbt and muslims in Wakanda disturbed me.
Lack of White people? Dude.... The movie takes place in an isolationist African country in the eastern part of the continent, not South Africa. LMAO. LGBT? It's unfortunate that this wasn't touched upon in the film, but the lack of it isn't a disturbing thing. LGBT should be represented in film, but not be forced. Muslims? The central religion in the movie is the worship of an Egyptian god/goddess.
There was nothing racist about this movie. The problem is that you couldn't relate to the film, like I said earlier.
wow you didnt just take the b8 man you practically choked on it
No, and what do folks mean by "too political"? A lot of comics have political messages. It's almost as if some people are thrown off by the message because it may make them feel uncomfortable.
It's because they can't relate to the message/agenda in the film. If it's not about White folks, it's a problem, even though everything has been about them for the longest.....
All of the Captain America films, most of the X-Men films, and the last two Dark Knight films all had political messages, agendas, and/or allegories in them. No one complained about them being too political.....
Even viewers are acting as if its some never seen before movie. It's just good not exceptional in any way. There are many CBMs better than it. Maybe it's because it's the first genuinely good MCU movie after like 3-4 years. GotG was the last complete MCU movie. But it's definitely overrated. I'd say it's about as good as Iron Man or maybe slightly better than it. TWS and GotG are still the MCU top dogs by a mile.
Agree with most of this as well. BP is one of the most balanced and well done Marvel films to date, but GoTG, TWS, Iron Man, Avengers, and Civil War all felt much more original, and way less predicable than BP was. That's why BP is a lil overrated.
wow you didnt just take the b8 man you practically choked on it
Bullshit still looks and stinks all the same, regardless....
Just like your initial comment about Killmonger. Case in point, it illustrates what I just said.
i honestly dont care what you think. i had no problem relating to the movie. Thor was an alien Asgaridan and i had no problem relating to the movie, had no problem with Hitchcock,or Cyborg either. Killmonger was a horrible person that they tried to paint in a much nicer light then he deserved and that has nothing to do with me being able to "relate" or not. you can call it subjective all you want but otherwise you are just sneakily using the race card "you're white so you can't relate" and i find that... laughable at best
You mean Hancock. You had no problem relating to them because those movies didn't have a central focus on the fact that they were Black, and nothing about their struggle or culture in relation to their race (and they were token). That's why. Tell me again how these characters compare to Black Panther or Killmonger, other than skin color....
It had everything to do with the fact that you can't relate, and Killmonger wasn't even a villain in the traditional sense. But, if you didn't get it by now, read above one more time.
I don't have to sneakily do anything. Everyone here knows who I am. Maybe you missed this post....
It's because they can't relate to the message/agenda in the film. If it's not about White folks, it's a problem, even though everything has been about them for the longest.....
I thought it was an amazing movie, I felt like I could really relate to T'Challa considering I am also a Superhuman African King with unbreakable armor with a net worth of five hundred billion. I never thought someone like me would be portrayed so well.
Killmonger was a PoS. Reveled in murder, wore it as a false badge of honor, and took satisfaction in hurting others due the misplaced anger and grief over his own life's course. And why? For power, and because he only felt sorry for himself, possessing no empathy for others. That was the morality tale. Nakia was the hero of the story. She was willing to do good for the sake of it, and influences BP to follow the same course. Had BP followed the traditional course of isolationism he wouldn't have been a villian, but he certainly wouldn't have been a hero, either. Killmonger was just another dark image of the protagonist. Par for the course in Marvel, and a disappointment.
Nope, it's one of the most unique films of the past decade, and one of the best written comic book films ever. It's obvious Coogler did something right, given that so many people are salty at the praise and the success the film is getting, lmao.
Its a great movie with a bit of an overrated cult following behind it and people trying to pull some cultural significance from it because its the first film featuring a hero of color (at least if you never watched Blade, Hancock or Steel).
Alot of the fans of the movie can be generally obnoxious as well.
Its a great movie with a bit of an overrated cult following behind it and people trying to pull some cultural significance from it because its the first film featuring a hero of color (at least if you never watched Blade, Hancock or Steel).
The funny thing about this is that Blade, Hancock, and Steel, even though they have Black superheroes in them, don't center on cultural significance at all. Black Panther does for a number of reasons. So, no one is trying to pull cultural significance here. It's just there. But, you see it as "just a movie" so you'd be blind to it, anyway.
Killmonger was a PoS. Reveled in murder, wore it as a false badge of honor, and took satisfaction in hurting others due the misplaced anger and grief over his own life's course. And why? For power, and because he only felt sorry for himself, possessing no empathy for others. That was the morality tale.
@static_shock: What cultural significance is in the film aside from the setting which is given a focus because its a new locale for the MCU? Its about a guy dressing up as a cat dealing with peoples assaults on his country with one liners and bad CGI thrown in. I thought it was well made for what it accomplished but many of the themes the director tried to inject, forcibly I might add, didn't hit home with anybody who could see past the superficial plot contrivances the movie offered.
Blade, Hancock and Steel didn't care about pulling on some strings for brownie points they had a beginning, middle and end and accomplished a goal to tell that story.
Killmonger was a PoS. Reveled in murder, wore it as a false badge of honor, and took satisfaction in hurting others due the misplaced anger and grief over his own life's course. And why? For power, and because he only felt sorry for himself, possessing no empathy for others. That was the morality tale.
Many would disagree with you. But, whatever.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Now, engaging him like a civilized human being I can see where hes coming from here. Now that i think about it his goals are contradictory. He hates Wakanda for screwing his life over and hates that people enslaved blacks but theyre doing exactly that. Hes using Wakanda to take over peoples livelihoods despite a seeded hatred against some of their people for ruining his life.
Its about a guy dressing up as a cat dealing with peoples assaults on his country with one liners and bad CGI thrown in. I thought it was well made for what it accomplished but many of the themes the director tried to inject, forcibly I might add, didn't hit home with anybody who could see past the superficial plot contrivances the movie offered.
Blade, Hancock and Steel didn't care about pulling on some strings for brownie points they had a beginning, middle and end and accomplished a goal to tell that story.
Because like I told the other guy....
....those movies didn't have a central focus on the fact that they were Black, and nothing about their struggle or culture in relation to their race (and they were token).
Also, the directors of all of those films were White. That's why they didn't care to "pull strings for brownie points."
Its a great movie with a bit of an overrated cult following behind it and people trying to pull some cultural significance from it because its the first film featuring a hero of color (at least if you never watched Blade, Hancock or Steel).
The funny thing about this is that Blade, Hancock, and Steel, even though they have Black superheroes in them, don't center on cultural significance at all. Black Panther does for a number of reasons. So, no one is trying to pull cultural significance here. It's just there. But, you see it as "just a movie" so you'd be blind to it, anyway.
Killmonger was a PoS. Reveled in murder, wore it as a false badge of honor, and took satisfaction in hurting others due the misplaced anger and grief over his own life's course. And why? For power, and because he only felt sorry for himself, possessing no empathy for others. That was the morality tale.
Many would disagree with you. But, whatever.
Dude, reading what you've posted throughout this thread, I agree with pretty much everything you've written. But what part of what I wrote do you disagree with? Killmonger was not a good guy, he was a dark, misguided version of BP, who shows us the difference between very similar characters brought up in very different circumstances, yet he IS a VERY bad guy, nonetheless. He used, and then wantonly killed his girlfriend showing NO remorse. Wears the deaths of his victims as scars upon his own body, and brags about it (a common trope among bad guys). When he gains control of Wakanda he seeks war, death and unquantifiable revenge upon, well, just any and everyone immediately. Nakia and her path are the heroic and right one, which she leads BP towards following, making him the hero.
Yes, an entertaining and fun movie to sit down and enjoy for 2 hours. Theres no deeper meaning behind it from my stance.
Because like I told the other guy....
....those movies didn't have a central focus on the fact that they were Black, and nothing about their struggle or culture in relation to their race (and they were token).
Also, the directors of all of those films were White. That's why they didn't care to "pull strings for brownie points."
Why does a directors skin color matter or have any input on the film? By that token of logic the films should've centered around white protagonists doing things that white people would be doing? You see where this flawed train of logic comes from?
I mean as a famous black man once said.
You don't seem to be doing this great civil rights worker justice do you? I'm disappointed. I thought some degree of rational thought process and tolerance was prevalent in analyzing that skin color isn't some determining factor in peoples lives.
Yes, an entertaining and fun movie to sit down and enjoy for 2 hours. Theres no deeper meaning behind it from my stance.
Because like I told the other guy....
....those movies didn't have a central focus on the fact that they were Black, and nothing about their struggle or culture in relation to their race (and they were token).
Also, the directors of all of those films were White. That's why they didn't care to "pull strings for brownie points."
Why does a directors skin color matter or have any input on the film? By that token of logic the films should've centered around white protagonists doing things that white people would be doing? You see where this flawed train of logic comes from?
I mean as a famous black man once said.
You don't seem to be doing this great civil rights worker justice do you? I'm disappointed. I thought some degree of rational thought process and tolerance was prevalent in analyzing that skin color isn't some determining factor in peoples lives.
Yes, an entertaining and fun movie to sit down and enjoy for 2 hours. Theres no deeper meaning behind it from my stance.
Because like I told the other guy....
....those movies didn't have a central focus on the fact that they were Black, and nothing about their struggle or culture in relation to their race (and they were token).
Also, the directors of all of those films were White. That's why they didn't care to "pull strings for brownie points."
Why does a directors skin color matter or have any input on the film? By that token of logic the films should've centered around white protagonists doing things that white people would be doing? You see where this flawed train of logic comes from?
I mean as a famous black man once said.
You don't seem to be doing this great civil rights worker justice do you? I'm disappointed. I thought some degree of rational thought process and tolerance was prevalent in analyzing that skin color isn't some determining factor in peoples lives.
Why does a directors skin color matter or have any input on the film? By that token of logic the films should've centered around white protagonists doing things that white people would be doing? You see where this flawed train of logic comes from?
I thought it was obvious, but I guess not. You said that Steel, Hancock, and Blade have no cultural significance. The directors are White, so it would be nearly impossible for them to connect with the characters in question, from a cultural perspective. Compare that to Black Panther, a movie about an African superhero who just so happens to be Black, just like the director. You're a smart man, you can figure it out from here.
Films centered around White protagonists already do things that White people should be doing... I thought you knew, or maybe you're just use to it.
MLK Jr. was also ready to fight for the economic freedom and advancement of Black people and loads of other things that pertain to only Black people. He's had meetings and stuff about that were on tape. He became somewhat different after Malcolm X was assassinated. But you wouldn't know about any of that, because it doesn't fit the narrative of the image you posted. That's a different discussion, though.
You don't seem to be doing this great civil rights worker justice do you? I'm disappointed. I thought some degree of rational thought process and tolerance was prevalent in analyzing that skin color isn't some determining factor in peoples lives.
Guess I was mistaken.
Well, if you're disappointed, it's because you expected too much from me.... LOL.
Was it a good movie? Yes. Was it a great marvel movie? Absolutely. Definitely in my top 5 superhero movies in general. I waited years for this movie and I was not disappointed at all.
Is it this revolutionary cultural movie for black people? LOL No. There've been so, so many "black" movies before that have had way more impact. Stop trying to turn a genuinely good movie into a political agenda lol There's no political narrative being driven, it just told the story of black panther.
The writing was generally lazy and inconsistent. Biased praising of this film is fine cause I do it too and understand it's inevitable, but to call it original or revolutionary is just odd.
Well there seems to be others who have similar or varied opinions on it. And many of us are just discussing the subjective topic from an opinionated stance. From your standpoint, the movie is some cultural phenomenon that has changed the world and should be archived in the National Film Registry. For others, that isn't the case.
I thought it was obvious, but I guess not. You said that Steel, Hancock, and Blade have no cultural significance. The directors are White, so it would be nearly impossible for them to connect with the characters in question, from a cultural perspective. Compare that to Black Panther, a movie about an African superhero who just so happens to be Black, just like the director. You're a smart man, you can figure it out from here.
Films centered around White protagonists already do things that White people should be doing... I thought you knew, or maybe you're just use to it.
Why would it be impossible for someone who is white to culturally identify or even generally identify with a character because of his skin color? You realize in the real world, theres White Africans of all sorts. This seems to be a running gag among many of the films biggest supporters, they look at things as being skin deep and superficial and its a poor thought process to go behind and support. A black kid growing up in NYC shouldn't be exempt from identifying with Spider-Man if they feel they share some traits with him, but going by your logic they should be.
If anything, this film should be more culturally resonating with actual Native Africans than blacks from western parts of the world. But lets take it a step further. Actual Africans across the world, do not care or don't identify with Panther. Hes a king of an advanced nation of xenophobic isolationists who mine a metal that helps improve their livelihoods. Only in Western parts of the world do people seem to have some misplaced sense of cultural identification with this movie, and a lot of it is floundered in ignorance. Normal people don't care about what race or background a movie protagonist has, and if they do then they have some deep seated insecurities in themselves.
MLK Jr. was also ready to fight for the economic freedom and advancement of Black people and loads of other things that pertain to only Black people. He's had meetings and stuff about that were on tape. He became somewhat different after Malcolm X was assassinated. But you wouldn't know about any of that, because it doesn't fit the narrative of the image you posted. That's a different discussion, though.
Anyway....
I'm familiar with his background and works thanks. So you're saying MLK favored blacks specifically and that he didn't strive to help others of different races? Well, that works out splendid for me since it proves hes no better than the people who are hardcore supporters of this film. Thank you.
Well, if you're disappointed, it's because you expected too much from me.... LOL.
I did. I seem to go under this assumption I'm having discussions with cognitive and respectable individuals who looked past skin color. I won't make that mistake again.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
So why make the claim? Do you not understand how the burden of proof works. Its pretty archaic to make baseless statements and tell others to go "search for the evidence themselves". If you can't prove your point, thats cool too. Its expected.
People's arguments are too involved. Just wait a few more months and people will come around saying "yeah, it's a bit overrated" just like Wonder Woman.
Politics are obviously involved in peoples opinion of the film, which is fine, but reviewers should review based on quality alone, which is one of the reasons why this movie is vastly overrated.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
I like Nakia in the film, but I agree here too. I feel like Killmonger is the metaphor for the deep seated and blind hatred that people would act upon due to being wronged in life instead of finding a better path or moving forward. Sorta like people who feel that individuals should pay for the slave trade with blood when they're acting no better in that case.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
I like Nakia in the film, but I agree here too. I feel like Killmonger is the metaphor for the deep seated and blind hatred that people would act upon due to being wronged in life instead of finding a better path or moving forward. Sorta like people who feel that individuals should pay for the slave trade with blood when they're acting no better in that case.
Hell of a jump you just made in that last sentence with a ton of assumptions about what other viners think. Lets stick to BP and what other people have stated on this thread
Well there seems to be others who have similar or varied opinions on it. And many of us are just discussing the subjective topic from an opinionated stance. From your standpoint, the movie is some cultural phenomenon that has changed the world and should be archived in the National Film Registry. For others, that isn't the case.
I was just pointing out things about the movie that a lot of you don't see. People's responses in here are proving me right.
Why would it be impossible for someone who is white to culturally identify or even generally identify with a character because of his skin color? You realize in the real world, theres White Africans of all sorts. This seems to be a running gag among many of the films biggest supporters, they look at things as being skin deep and superficial and its a poor thought process to go behind and support. A black kid growing up in NYC shouldn't be exempt from identifying with Spider-Man if they feel they share some traits with him, but going by your logic they should be.
A Black kid identifying with Spider-Man has nothing to do with culture. So, that's irrelevant. But, anyway, Djimon Hounsou's son told him that he wanted to be White like Spider-Man, which is kinda problematic. A lack of representation does that.
White Africans do exist, and yet, they don't identify with Black Africans or Black people in general, from a cultural perspective. So, yeah... It would be impossible because they wouldn't be able to understand. I hope that answers your question.
If anything, this film should be more culturally resonating with actual Native Africans than blacks from western parts of the world. But lets take it a step further. Actual Africans across the world, do not care or don't identify with Panther.
Me and my family (immediate and mostly extended) are Nigerians. We've all seen it. The movie resonates with us culturally. We care. Put your foot in your mouth. I know a lot of other Africans who have the same sentiments too.
I'm familiar with his background and works thanks. So you're saying MLK favored blacks specifically and that he didn't strive to help others of different races? Well, that works out splendid for me since it proves hes no better than the people who are hardcore supporters of this film. Thank you.
No, you're not familiar, which is why you only posted that image, which is only a small part of what MLK Jr. was all about.
So why make the claim? Do you not understand how the burden of proof works. Its pretty archaic to make baseless statements and tell others to go "search for the evidence themselves". If you can't prove your point, thats cool too. Its expected.
Because I can.
I don't have time to search the internet for what you want. So, if you want know about it, do it yourself if you care enough to. Besides, they are opinion articles on the character, anyway.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
In response to this and your last post to me, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I was saying that others would disagree. That's all.
Nakia may look like the hero, but it took Killmonger for T'Challa to act. So, I'd say that he's influenced by both of them.
I was just pointing out things about the movie that a lot of you don't see. People's responses in here are proving me right.
How are they proving you right?
A Black kid identifying with Spider-Man has nothing to do with culture. So, that's irrelevant. But, anyway, Djimon Hounsou's son told him that he wanted to be White like Spider-Man, which is kinda problematic. A lack of representation does that.
Why not? Peter is deep seated in NYC culture and nerd culture as well with how he lives. Its very relevant here especially when others want to model themselves after Peter. Or Captain Americas boy scout moxy and ethics. Plenty of people who aren't the same color as them want to emulate or even be them.
Also so what if his son said he wants to be white like Spider-Man. Who are we to shut down the dreams of a child? I've made similar statements about fictional characters before, some of which aren't even human. And theres plenty of representation for people who look only skin deep and want to invest in heroes with similar skin color. Like I said, Blade and Hancock exist.
Who wouldn't wanna be a vampire fighting martial artist and Will Smith? I sure would and I'm not even a similar skin color than they are.
White Africans do exist, and yet, they don't identify with Black Africans or Black people in general, from a cultural perspective. So, yeah... It would be impossible because they wouldn't be able to understand. I hope that answers your question.
But my point is, why would they? Or even if they did what sort of impact does that have on anyone? Theres plenty of whites who want to emulate other cultures all over.
Me and my family (immediate and mostly extended) are Nigerians. We've all seen it. The movie resonates with us culturally. We care. Put your foot in your mouth. I know a lot of other Africans who have the same sentiments too.
Are you legitimately Nigerian, or are you descended centuries back from them? How does a movie that doesn't feature your people or care to address them in anyway resonate with you? Is your family aware that Wakanda for all express purposes doesn't care about Nigeria or other countries and felt content to let them do their own thing for years on end?I mean its fine if you guys care, plenty of people devote time to things that make no rational sense, I'm just saying its a bit misplaced. It would be like if I suddenly identified with a random movie because it features a fleeting and passing superficial resemblance to who I am. Seems a bit silly in the larger picture.
Your whole generalization is ignorance, though.
Its not a generalization. Saying that people of color should identify with Wakanda or be restricted to someone because of their race is ignorance however.
You're narcissistic, too. Interesting. Representation of all people doesn't matter to you.
You might need to learn the definition of narcissism. I'm being blunt and realistic. And no, what other people feel represents themselves doesn't matter to me in the slightest or affect me. That however, doesn't stop me from debating the topic and finding some amusement in it.
No, you're not familiar, which is why you only posted that image, which is only a small part of what MLK Jr. was all about.
You're welcome, though... LOL.
So again, we're solidifying that MLK was someone who only cared about black interest and nobody else and may have been an angry and irrational individual? Again, that works for me.
Besides, if you're Nigerian then what does MLK mean to you again? I didn't know they taught MLK in those schools down there.
Oh, I'm very cognitive, so it's not a thing. Everyone doesn't have to be respectful because your expectations of them. But, okay.
Our discussion contradicts what the notion your cognitive so lets not kid ourselves here. But I do have some expectations.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
I like Nakia in the film, but I agree here too. I feel like Killmonger is the metaphor for the deep seated and blind hatred that people would act upon due to being wronged in life instead of finding a better path or moving forward. Sorta like people who feel that individuals should pay for the slave trade with blood when they're acting no better in that case.
Hell of a jump you just made in that last sentence with a ton of assumptions about what other viners think. Lets stick to BP and what other people have stated on this thread
Not much of a jump, just an observation based on the experience I've seen debating the movie, even outside of CV. And we're talking about BP here so I'm not sure what you mean.
I don't have time to search the internet for what you want. So, if you want know about it, do it yourself if you care enough to. Besides, they are opinion articles on the character, anyway.
Yes, indeed you can make baseless and poorly thought statements that doesn't make it a good thing now does it?
So, the burden of proof is dead then? I would think you'd wanna prove your claims you seem to be brazenly sticking by, but alas...it doesn't seem like it. Oh well. I accept your concession on the topic.
Cultural nonsense involved or not, its a fun flick to watch.
Far from a masterpiece though IMO.
The Score, for the most part, did not jive with me.
Killmonger is probably the most "nothing" villain I've encountered in awhile which is my biggest problem with the movie. He just didn't feel threatening or interesting. Emotionally he bored me too. That might be because I think Jordan is just not an interesting actor. Honestly should have kept Claw, but whats done is done. I understand the sympathetic villain angle they were trying to do, but its so basic and base level in its attempt that it doesn't really hit me anymore.
I get most of the things it was trying to do, but I'm not that easy so just having those there isn't going to sway me emotionally alone.
CGI was okay? it bounced between godawful and great too much. And a bunch of other stuff I felt lowered the movie, but its just small things.
Why not? Peter is deep seated in NYC culture and nerd culture as well with how he lives. Its very relevant here especially when others want to model themselves after Peter. Or Captain Americas boy scout moxy and ethics. Plenty of people who aren't the same color as them want to emulate or even be them.
Neither of those things have anything to do with the culture that I'm talking about. You wouldn't understand, which I've already pointed out.
Also so what if his son said he wants to be white like Spider-Man.
Just like you wouldn't understand why this is a problem....
Are you legitimately Nigerian, or are you descended centuries back from them? How does a movie that doesn't feature your people or care to address them in anyway resonate with you? Is your family aware that Wakanda for all express purposes doesn't care about Nigeria or other countries and felt content to let them do their own thing for years on end?I mean its fine if you guys care, plenty of people devote time to things that make no rational sense, I'm just saying its a bit misplaced. It would be like if I suddenly identified with a random movie because it features a fleeting and passing superficial resemblance to who I am. Seems a bit silly in the larger picture.
If I wasn't legitimately Nigerian, I wouldn't have said anything.
It resonates with us culturally. The style of dress and design, the music, the traditions and tribal/ceremonial aspects of the people in the film, etc, etc. Things you don't understand, hence your comment about "how Wakandans feel about Nigeria." We know Wakanda isn't real; that's not the basis of why we feel connected to it, smart guy.
EDIT: Also, Wakanda in the film is a collection of different African cultures, customs, and dialects. Nigerian culture and customs is one of them. Hence, the connection. But, you're fixated on the fictional aspects of the film, and understandably so. LOL.
Its not a generalization. Saying that people of color should identify with Wakanda or be restricted to someone because of their race is ignorance however.
It is, along with more ignorance from you, and a lack of reading comprehension, too.
You might need to learn the definition of narcissism. I'm being blunt and realistic.
You think that you're better than those who care about representation, that those people aren't normal compared to you. I called it what it is.
And no, what other people feel represents themselves doesn't matter to me in the slightest or affect me.
So again, we're solidifying that MLK was someone who only cared about black interest and nobody else and may have been an angry and irrational individual? Again, that works for me.
You sound like a broken record. You're assuming MLK was angry and irrational because....? I didn't say anything of the sort. Nice "angry Black man" assumption.
Our discussion contradicts what the notion your cognitive so lets not kid ourselves here. But I do have some expectations.
You seem to be kidding yourself pretty well, though. LOL.
Yes, indeed you can make baseless and poorly thought statements that doesn't make it a good thing now does it?
So, the burden of proof is dead then? I would think you'd wanna prove your claims you seem to be brazenly sticking by, but alas...it doesn't seem like it. Oh well. I accept your concession on the topic.
Yes, indeed you can make baseless and poorly thought statements that doesn't make it a good thing now does it?
So, the burden of proof is dead then? I would think you'd wanna prove your claims you seem to be brazenly sticking by, but alas...it doesn't seem like it. Oh well. I accept your concession on the topic.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I sleep fine either way.
I thought you were the cognitive one. I guess not.
No, you made another unfounded claim but don't seem intent on proving it.
Neither of those things have anything to do with the culture that I'm talking about. You wouldn't understand, which I've already pointed out.
So its only culturally exclusive to Africans? Seems a bit of a massive leap in judgement to say that only Africans can get some cultural significance out of a superhero movie of all things. The main thing I don't seem to understand is the irrational thought process behind it. I mean, that doesn't stop me from finding it funny in retrospect.
Just like you wouldn't understand why this is a problem....
Its not a problem. Unless you have some personal standing with Djimon and his son that statement affects you in no possible way. The only person who seems to have a problem with that statement, is you and a small vocal minority who are bent on making every minor issue related to fictional characters race related. I get some people need hobbies, but this isn't the best way to spend free time on small insecurities of what people may think or feel.
If I wasn't legitimately Nigerian, I wouldn't have said anything.
I didn't ask for your ethnic background though and you have no way of definitively proving it otherwise. So it leaves both of us at an impasse for another red-herring you've concocted out of nowhere. Why?
It resonates with us culturally. The style of dress and design, the music, the traditions and tribal/ceremonial aspects of the people in the film, etc, etc. Things you don't understand, hence your comment about "how Wakandans feel about Nigeria." We know Wakanda isn't real; that's not the basis of why we feel connected to it, smart guy.
Wakandans are not Nigerians. The music being used in the film varies from urban, to rap, epic style of music and even some generic African music placement for two scenes in the film. The way the Wakandans dress is their own culture, and its not yours. Its fictional.
EDIT: Also, Wakanda in the film is a collection of different African cultures, customs, and dialects. Nigerian culture and customs is one of them. Hence, the connection. But, you're fixated on the fictional aspects of the film, and understandably so. LOL.
It takes influence from many facets and even the fictional one its inspired by in Marvel Comics. Do you have solid proof that Nigerian culture is the main one or even the one used for the movie?
It is, along with more ignorance from you, and a lack of reading comprehension, too.
Well this just seems to be a case of pot calling the kettle back.
You think that you're better than those who care about representation, that those people aren't normal compared to you. I called it what it is.
I never said I was better than they were, you gotta start putting that Nigerian education to good use friend. I even explicitly said I don't care what people take from the movie, doesn't stop me from discussing it. You called out something that had no meaning behind it, in a cute attempt of salvaging whatever point you've been trying to make. Congrats.
You sound like a broken record. You're assuming MLK was angry and irrational because....? I didn't say anything of the sort. Nice "angry Black man" assumption.
By your own words you said.
MLK Jr. was also ready to fight for the economic freedom and advancement of Black people and loads of other things that pertain to only Black people. He's had meetings and stuff about that were on tape. He became somewhat different after Malcolm X was assassinated. But you wouldn't know about any of that, because it doesn't fit the narrative of the image you posted. That's a different discussion, though.
Anyway....
Is is by your own admission that MLK wasn't the peaceful man I was attributing to him as and that he was something else according to you. But, why would a Nigerian know anything about an individual from the US especially when they're attributing traits to him that weren't there? I guess it all adds up.
Who are the many people that would disagree with him? Can you quote them and find extensive evidence that a majority of individuals would disagree with him here? Feel its a bit of a jump the gun moment to automatically deflect against any criticism people can offer on the film.
Do a Google search if you're interested; there are plenty of articles that are in contrast to what that guy said about Killmonger. If not, that's cool too. It's of no consequence.
Again, Nakia is the hero of Black Panther, yet I keep seeing pieces which proclaim, while providing no evidence, that Killmonger is a sympathetic and complex antagonist, shoehorning an odd narrative which ignores everything we are shown in the film. He lacks any compassion or empathy, feels only sorry for himself, and never performs a single altruistic act in the entire film. He revels in, and enjoys the death that he causes. None of his means justify some better ends because he winds up putting all of Wakanda in grave peril just to lash out at the greater world in a childish and ill-conceived manner, with no greater plan for any greater good.
I like Nakia in the film, but I agree here too. I feel like Killmonger is the metaphor for the deep seated and blind hatred that people would act upon due to being wronged in life instead of finding a better path or moving forward. Sorta like people who feel that individuals should pay for the slave trade with blood when they're acting no better in that case.
"Hell of a jump you just made in that last sentence with a ton of assumptions about what other viners think. Lets stick to BP and what other people have stated on this thread
Not much of a jump, just an observation based on the experience I've seen debating the movie, even outside of CV. And we're talking about BP here so I'm not sure what you mean.
Its a HUGE jump!
"I feel like Killmonger is the metaphor for the deep seated and blind hatred that people would act upon due to being wronged in life instead of finding a better path or moving forward."
Totally agree with you, which is why I see him as a one dimensional villain.
"Sorta like people who feel that individuals should pay for the slave trade with blood when they're acting no better in that case."
NO! NO! NO! Do not try to draw a correlation between the rightful criticism of Killmonger's character in your first sentence, and the broad, ignorant and ineffective, argument of stating that random "people" draw this illogical conclusion in your second statement. Complete non sequitur.
"Hell of a jump you just made in that last sentence with a ton of assumptions about what other viners think."
"just an observation based on the experience I've seen debating the movie, even outside of CV."
So why are you arguing this here, as you said, it wasn't on CV.
"And we're talking about BP here so I'm not sure what you mean."
I've been discussing BP, you're discussing another argument, from another page.
Totally agree with you, which is why I see him as a one dimensional villain.
Ok.
NO! NO! NO! Do not try to draw a correlation between the rightful criticism of Killmonger's character in your first sentence, and the broad, ignorant and ineffective, argument of stating that random "people" draw this illogical conclusion in your second statement. Complete non sequitur.
I'm drawing that conclusion from people I've talked with and discussed. Especially for Killmonger's last statement of "i wanna die like my ancestors on the ships". People seem to sympathize with him for the wrong reasons and feel they should be up in arms for Killmongers stance despite his evil intent and revenge schemes.
"Hell of a jump you just made in that last sentence with a ton of assumptions about what other viners think."
So why are you arguing this here, as you said, it wasn't on CV.
My statement was referring to people I've encountered in general outside the site on other websites or in real life. I haven't paid too much attention to what CV thinks of the movie up until reading through this thread.
I've been discussing BP, you're discussing another argument, from another page.
I think there seems to be a misunderstanding. I've been completely focused on everything discussed on this page.
@masterskywalker: "My statement was referring to people I've encountered in general outside the site on other websites or in real life. I haven't paid too much attention to what CV thinks of the movie up until reading through this thread." "I think there seems to be a misunderstanding. I've been completely focused on everything discussed on this page." Are you trolling? In one sentence you talk about how youre only focused on the conversation occurring on this thread, yet all these other interjections reference "peoples opinions" that aren't on CV, and topics which have not been discussed here.
@masterskywalker: "My statement was referring to people I've encountered in general outside the site on other websites or in real life. I haven't paid too much attention to what CV thinks of the movie up until reading through this thread." "I think there seems to be a misunderstanding. I've been completely focused on everything discussed on this page." Are you trolling? In one sentence you talk about how youre only focused on the conversation occurring on this thread, yet all these other interjections reference "peoples opinions" that aren't on CV, and topics which have not been discussed here.
No I'm not trolling. CV is a small site as per the discussion here I would be focused on. But I can reference outside experience from my own standpoint and inject them into the discussion here. What part of that is hard to get?
@masterskywalker: You've derailed the thread. Sorry to everyone for the role Ive played as well, wasnt my intent. Ill only discuss actual BP content on this thread from now on.
@masterskywalker: You've derailed the thread. Sorry to everyone for the role Ive played as well, wasnt my intent. Ill only discuss actual BP content on this thread from now on.
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