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#101 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

Updated OP with a lot more reviews, metacritic score and rotten tomatoes score.

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#102 Posted by Light1150 (597 posts) - - Show Bio

sounds like a boring, action less and sloppy spotless show from these reviews

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#103 Posted by Temudjin (337 posts) - - Show Bio

As someone who was looking forward to this show irregardless of the character's race (because no, Danny does not have to be Caucasian or Asian, casting an Asian martial artist isn't racist when all the Asian actors are playing bad guy martial artists anyway, and keeping him Caucasian is both true to the source material and not racist), I'm still very disappointed these supposed "professional critics" are playing the race card here. It's embarrassing, repulsive and just as regressive as any other form of racial discrimination. If they are saying Iron Fist would be more entertaining with an Asian actor instead, then I and anyone else who doesn't see race as an issue will interpret that to mean the show is good irregardless of their opinion. However, from the sounds of it, there are a lot of problems in these first six episodes. Iron Fist isn't living up to expectations because it's simply not a good martial arts vehicle, which is exactly what it was supposed to be. They really had one job with this show, and I'll hold onto some faith that the remaining 7 episodes will redeem it.

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#104 Posted by buildhare (8709 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel’s ‘Iron Fist’ puts up a fight, but may be ‘The Defenders’ weakest link - DigitalTrends

Basically confirmed Daredevil will beat Iron Fist in a fight, get wrecked @rogueshadow

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#105 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow they're really piling on. I feel kinda sorry for the show now, I wasn't a fan of what I saw in Luke Cage but I didn't expect this reaction.

What's really sad is my Chinese friends were actually really looking forward to this one in particular...

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#106 Posted by rogueshadow (29360 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel’s ‘Iron Fist’ puts up a fight, but may be ‘The Defenders’ weakest link - DigitalTrends

Basically confirmed Daredevil will beat Iron Fist in a fight, get wrecked @rogueshadow

No Caption Provided

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#107 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

The show looked so promising, this is disappointing.

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#108 Posted by BruceRogers (17448 posts) - - Show Bio

0% on Rotten Tomatoes?. Damn, this is really bad >_<

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#109 Posted by deactivated-5af85f4e3dbf7 (617 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I was seriously interested from the trailers. It looked better than Luke Cage. I'll still watch it probably. But 0% is discouraging.

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#110 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I was seriously interested from the trailers. It looked better than Luke Cage. I'll still watch it probably. But 0% is discouraging.

Well at least it's not something we need to go to the movies to watch, lol. We'll just turn it on, watch the first 5 minutes, you either like it or not. If you don't, turn it off xD

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#111 Posted by deactivated-5af85f4e3dbf7 (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: The trailer looked so promising that I totally expected this to be good. Like Suicide Squad. And 0% is seriously ridiculous.

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#112 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: The trailer looked so promising that I totally expected this to be good. Like Suicide Squad. And 0% is seriously ridiculous.

To be fair, 0% on Rotten Tomatoes doesn't mean it's a 0/10 show. It just means that all reviews counted so far wouldn't recommend the show. Average rating is 4/10, so it's more of a 4/10 show, I guess?

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#113 Posted by Iara (970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: No one recommending the show is still pretty bad. Luckily they'll still get plenty of views from people that have already watched the first 3 shows.

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#114 Edited by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

@iara said:

@theamazingspidey: No one recommending the show is still pretty bad. Luckily they'll still get plenty of views from people that have already watched the first 3 shows.

I know. I had no expectations for this show as someone who didn't love Luke Cage, and it's failing to meet my non exist expectations, heh.

Let's just hope it improves in the second half, but I'm not holding my breathe.

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#115 Posted by deactivated-5af85f4e3dbf7 (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: I honestly don't care about reviews. I liked Man of Steel (which was badly reviewed). So I'll watch this one too. But this will probably kill Iron Fist from other media.

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#116 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: I honestly don't care about reviews. I liked Man of Steel (which was badly reviewed). So I'll watch this one too. But this will probably kill Iron Fist from other media.

If Iron Fist is good in The Defenders, he won't be ruined in other media.

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#117 Posted by rogueshadow (29360 posts) - - Show Bio

It's interesting to note that when you look at reviewers who don't complain about whitewashing, cultural appropriation, mansplaining etc., it looks like this:

  • The Reel Bits - 3.5/5
  • 411Mania - 7.5/10
  • IGN - 6.5 (First episode only)
  • Joblo - 7/10
  • Comicbookmovie - 4/5
  • Cinema Blend - 2/5
  • Nerdist - 6/10
  • Empire - 6/10
  • Deadline - "Long story short, check out Iron Fist."
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#118 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

It's interesting to note that when you look at reviewers who don't complain about whitewashing, cultural appropriation, mansplaining etc., it looks like this:

  • The Reel Bits - 3.5/5
  • 411Mania - 7.5/10
  • IGN - 6.5 (First episode only)
  • Joblo - 7/10
  • Comicbookmovie - 4/5
  • Cinema Blend - 2/5
  • Nerdist - 6/10
  • Empire - 6/10
  • Deadline - "Long story short, check out Iron Fist."

So.... decent but not terrible reviews?

Good news for the fans. Personally, I lost excitement for Netflix/Marvel after Luke Cage and have no expectations for this show, but I don't wish to take any excitement away from the Iron Fist fans who deserve to enjoy this series.

Thanks for sharing!

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#119 Edited by FearTheLiving (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey: Closer to 5/10 (currently sitting at a 4.8) though I do wonder where they're getting the other numbers from to get that. The only actual scores I see are 6.5/10, 6/10, and 3/5 out of 10 reviews.

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#120 Edited by Asgaard (4518 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers said:

0% on Rotten Tomatoes?. Damn, this is really bad >_<

RT reviews and TV have a very strange relation, where Supergirl season one has a score of 97% (audience 53%) and Daredevil season 2 a score of 76% (audience 95%), its nowhere near the importance that they give to movie reviewers, that said seems clear that this show is (critically) below the other Defenders, and that is being amped by less objective arguments, that should be more about the fictional content...

@spambot said:

@asgaard: I would just like to know where the reviewer got his info on Kun Lun's martial arts if he's describing it as made up by white men in the 70's. It sounds to me like he is going out of his way to try and justify his own racial criticisms of the show with very faulty info.

I remember that at least 2 or 3 sites (ex. The verge) that rapidly put out their reviews about this show, did also made articles about female Thor full of nonsense, trying to create their own reality about the theme, a reality that any 2 runs Thor reader would perceive as fake...

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#121 Posted by FearTheLiving (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: That's true, RT isn't really a good bases for shows. That beings said there really isn't a good website that compiles reviews for show so single reviews/reviewers you trust are your best bet. You can't create a consensus when critic A watches the whole season of something rates it accordingly, while critic B watches 6 episodes, and critic C watches a single episode sure they all give their thoughts on what they saw but none of them are on the same page and judging the show in question in it's entirety aside form critic A. Not to mention shows don't get even a quarter the amount of reviews films do which adds to an even smaller consensus to work with.

That being said I'm sure Marvel/Netflix would rather see the show scoring well regardless.

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#122 Posted by captain_inverse (2353 posts) - - Show Bio

screw the reviews! ill watch it anyway...

I don't care the color/race of who they casted, so long as they can act the part. Wouldn't be the first one i liked that wasn't the nationality of the character he/she is portraying.

big F*in whoopie-do **twirling pointing finger**

Lack of action could very well be attributed to character/story building. god forbid we get some in-depth look at these characters & their ethics in lieu of punching faces in....

IT WILL HAPPEN GUYS, this IS Iron Fist (are we really going to question the action from 6< episodes?)

anywho, half the time i disagree with critics like RT/IMDB

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#123 Posted by Saberscar223 (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

Would this be the first rotten mcu property?

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#124 Edited by Asgaard (4518 posts) - - Show Bio

@Feartheliving:

The sad truth is that besides the movie medium, the other fictional mediums still suffer from a lot of critical amateurism that tends to be influenced by personal bias, be it about the political spectrum or other preferences...

If you read all this review (at the moment the last on RT), you will notice the lack of criticisms in terms of pace, tone, worldbuilding and characterization, instead you will see what (apparently) is really the goal of some of these reviews...

Main notes that lead to the conclusion/goal...

Iron Fist does have his fans, but they are a microscopic contingent compared to those who care about the Iron Men and Daredevils of the world.

In other words, few would have mourned Danny if Marvel Television had thrown him overboard for the Netflix series Marvel’s Iron Fist.

They could have built something vaguely familiar but excitingly new.

justifiable outcry over the show’s antiquated white-guy-goes-ninja tropes (Why Should Netflix Have Cast an Asian-American Iron Fist?)

It’s easy to imagine the strategy: Keep the costume, the karate, the power, and the humor, and throw away all the stuff that doesn’t work. Why should Marvel marry itself to a boring origin story that is hardly a beloved one?

Why should they stick with a white guy, when — and I say this not out of progressive belief, but an appreciation of good storytelling — other choices would be more interesting?

It may have seemed fine to crank out another Marvel Netflix show that feels like the brand’s past outings, but the critical drubbing that Iron Fist has received is in no small part due to the fact that it’s so stale and unoriginal.

The failure of Iron Fist should serve as a cautionary tale: It’s a time to change or die, and whichever studio learns it doesn’t always have to maintain a white-knuckle grip on what’s been done before will be the one that pulls ahead.

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#125 Posted by lestrange (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingspidey at 14% on RT. :)

I'm not holding any judgement until it comes out, but these reviews are making me lower my expectations.

The Netflix Marvel shows have been dropping in quality since DD season 1 ended(Season 2 was good too but i much prefer S1 to S2 for reasons that i'm not going to go into right now).

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#126 Edited by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

So who comes after Iron Fist?

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#127 Posted by lestrange (322 posts) - - Show Bio
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#128 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio
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#129 Posted by rogueshadow (29360 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: I particularly hated that one, they even suggest that his name is superfluous, it's just so clear that these reviewers don't want an Iron Fist adaptation, they simply don't want Danny Rand onscreen, period. It's also bugging me how these reviewers are trying to act like they know about the character or his comics when it's clear they've clearly just brushed through his Wikipedia page. They also keep saying his origin is bland and boring, which really boggles my mind.

I'm wondering how Marvel and Netflix react to this (assuming the negativity sticks when the full series is actually released).

If it does turn out to be bad, I can see one of two things happening:

  1. They scrap the Iron Fist series and put him with Luke Cage, maybe move forwards with a Daughters of the Dragon series, probably co-starring Shang-Chi.
  2. They double down hard on Iron Fist, neither Marvel or Netflix are used to this sort of reaction, this would be a hard loss and I don't think they'll take it well. They might want to redeem themselves by putting their all into a second season and making sure it is great.

I'm hoping the back half of the season is pay-off for the first half's build-up, the RZA episode apparently has him fight four assassins at once and is in the more Kung-Fu/mysticism side, the Bride of Nine Spiders will probably be in episode 9 and Miguel Sapochnik must be doing episode 10 so I expect that will be awesome regardless.

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#130 Edited by Asgaard (4518 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Even in the comics medium there is a lot of wiki knowledge (lol), i would prefer other examples but i think female Thor is the best one (also the one i have more data about), it demonstrated how (some) "critics" are influenced by their (beyond comics) views, and don't really care for any of Thor/Asgard lore, they even tried to distort it for the convenience of their "arguments", Thor is not a mantle but i can accept that is debatable, but Thor stories are certainly NOT about the mundane & human diseases, just doesn't fit the worldbuilding, but that was not the perception (or what they were trying to sell as their perception) of Aaron's current work by a lot of the comics media, most preferred to ignore even the same writer recent take (GoT) where everything was different, from tone to characterization and obviously worldbuilding....... Gorr the God Butcher, nuff said........... So its like the characters lore is not even the essential part for the described people, and that seems to be the battle of current times in the fictional mediums... Should Iron Fist & other characters stories be about Danny Rand lore or just a concept that may feel similar but in reality may not really touch the essential? Like (Jane wielding Mjolnir) female Thor comics are not Journeys Into Mystery? And what about the impact to the comic character after the described/possible interpretations in the other fictional mediums?

Regarding Iron Fist future on Netflix, i think it will depend a lot on Netflix (the number of views of this show will be crucial, and regarding this variable its positive that Netflix is not so dependent of single markets like the normal TV platform), because by Marvel comics current mindset and Marvel TV (still is connect to Marvel Entertainment) i don't think they will double down, to be fair even K. Feige (that is free from Marvel Entertainment) is promoting Captain Marvel in a not organic way... Maybe the reception from comics fans, Netflix fans or just Mcu fans can also be a crucial variable here... If it is a Danny Rand the Iron Fist Tv series, i will enjoy it, and probably there will be other people like me, and Netflix will acknowledge that...

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#131 Edited by RBT (28500 posts) - - Show Bio

14% score on RT. Warner Bros paying those RT critics!

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#132 Posted by Gotoucanario (2985 posts) - - Show Bio

As a DCEU fan I learnt to not give a crap and watch it anyway lol. Looks grim but it could still be enjoyable, specially given that it's only 6/13 eps

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#133 Edited by rogueshadow (29360 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: Agreed entirely.

The way that both Netflix and ABC/Marvel Entertainment have responded to subpar reception (both critically and from audiences) in the past indicate it has a good shot at getting another season. Marco Polo, a $10 million per episode (probably more than twice that of Iron Fist's) show that really didn't do well on any front, yet managed to get a second season, and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 1, which I'm amazed is still on air, is now in it's fourth season.

I could easily see it going the other way though, I think it will depend exactly how badly it underperforms, assuming it does at all, I still have a feeling it's not even going to be that bad. If the main issues are that there isn't a lot of action for the first few episodes, Danny's white and there's lots of corporate drama, then as an Iron Fist fan, I'm pretty sure I'll like it anyway.

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#134 Posted by Mutant1230 (6620 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

14% score on RT. Warner Bros paying those RT critics!

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#135 Posted by PeterParkerJr (6767 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

14% score on RT. Warner Bros paying those RT critics!

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#136 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone who's seen it tell me how it compares to Agents of Shield season 1?

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#137 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone who's seen it tell me how it compares to Agents of Shield season 1?

It isn't out yet, though.

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#138 Posted by FearTheLiving (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone who's seen it tell me how it compares to Agents of Shield season 1?

Doesn't officially come out until the 17th these reviews are based on the first 6 episodes (except for IGN which is supposedly just for the first episode.)

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#139 Posted by black_wreath (13557 posts) - - Show Bio
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#140 Posted by Pipxeroth (9294 posts) - - Show Bio

"Racially uncomfortable"

Yeah ffs guys, stop casting white males for the roles of white males in tv shows. You're making me uncomfortable.

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#141 Posted by Pipxeroth (9294 posts) - - Show Bio

Watching a white man be the "chosen one" and be better than his Asian teachers is wrong.

Asians should always be better than white men

- Businessinsider, 2017

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#142 Edited by Asgaard (4518 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

I also agree entirely with what you said...

I was reading some around the world news, (i can read in a few languages) and there was an interesting Iron Fist review (that seems to be "fair") in a Portuguese (the political spectrum is still very center based) main stream news site (link), although Portuguese (like English) is also not my first language i will try to translate it...

They call the review the repetition effect...

They first delve into Marvel cinematic universe history, X-Men/Fox and Marvel Netlix, then who is Iron Fist, and his Defenders fit, and in the end they say that Iron Fist is suffering from being the last to arrive, the Marvel Netflix so praised in the previous shows lost the freshness effect and suffers from less charisma from this character, but its more from the same, and that is the problem...

Probably not a problem for us.............

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#143 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17641 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard said:

@rogueshadow:

I also agree entirely with what you said...

I was reading some around the world news, (i can read in a few languages) and there was an interesting Iron Fist review (that seems to be "fair") in a Portuguese (the political spectrum is still very center based) main stream news site (link), although Portuguese (like English) is also not first language i will try to translate it...

They call the review the repetition effect...

They first delve into Marvel cinematic universe history, X-Men/Fox and Marvel Netlix, then who is Iron Fist, and his Defenders fit, and in the end they say that Iron Fist is suffering from being the last to arrive, the Marvel Netflix so praised in the previous shows lost the freshness effect and suffers from less charisma from this character, but its more from the same, and that is the problem...

Probably not a problem for us.............

I definitely think that plays a hand in it. If this show was, like, the second to come, it might've been better received.

Personally, these shows have all been too similair and the only one I loved was DD. I liked JJ, couldn't stand Luke Cage.

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#144 Posted by DarkPsychicLord_Prime (4115 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why i don't like reading/hearing of the show im going to watch before i do it, i prefer to watch it and judge it on my own, instead of reading all the bad reviews and watch it with low expectations

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#145 Edited by rogueshadow (29360 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard said:

@rogueshadow:

I also agree entirely with what you said...

I was reading some around the world news, (i can read in a few languages) and there was an interesting Iron Fist review (that seems to be "fair") in a Portuguese (the political spectrum is still very center based) main stream news site (link), although Portuguese (like English) is also not first language i will try to translate it...

They call the review the repetition effect...

They first delve into Marvel cinematic universe history, X-Men/Fox and Marvel Netlix, then who is Iron Fist, and his Defenders fit, and in the end they say that Iron Fist is suffering from being the last to arrive, the Marvel Netflix so praised in the previous shows lost the freshness effect and suffers from less charisma from this character, but its more from the same, and that is the problem...

Probably not a problem for us.............

I definitely think that plays a hand in it. If this show was, like, the second to come, it might've been better received.

Personally, these shows have all been too similair and the only one I loved was DD. I liked JJ, couldn't stand Luke Cage.

I agree, well, not with the hating Luke Cage bit, lol (though I agree it was the weakest and DD (Season 1) was the strongest) but everything else you two said.

But given the recent news that practically confirmsSteel Serpent will be showing up, Finn Jones saying the back half will be more mystical and action packed and that they're clearly introducing the Bride of Nine Spiders in episode 9, I'm hoping that the other 7 episodes can actually bring something new to the table as they lead into the Defenders.

I also think that they couldn't just drop the mysticism and craziness on the audience like a ton of bricks, they had to ease them into it, there's a significant contingent of the audience for these shows who expect a degree of realism and grittiness. If the opening episode was Iron Monkey, CTHD etc., I feel like you're going to lose that portion of the fanbase very quickly.

I've also got to say, for a character like Iron Fist, budget has got to be an issue, I really felt that with Luke Cage, I hope it's less apparent here.

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#146 Edited by SilverPool (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not really surprised if this show isn't great. The Netflix MCU has been stumbling since post DD Season1.

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#147 Posted by Keenko (5187 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm on episode 3 now and I'm mystified and slightly pissed by the reviews. The show is very good.