In your opinion, is Joker in the same tier as Darth Vader?

Comparable in what? Iconicity? Quality?

@quinlan58: Idk, probably either?

@sufferedtoker: Joker's been on Vader's level of iconic since at least The Dark Knight. His solo film hasn't really made him any more iconic.

Quality wise, if we're just going by film depictions, I rate Phoenix Joker ahead of Vader, who I in turn rate ahead of Nicholson and Ledger Joker as a character.

To answer the last question, there's a ton of villains I rate ahead of Vader or Joker in terms of quality, but I can't off the top of my head name any more iconic film villains.

Joker and Vader are the Father and Son. The only real question is who the Spirit is.

@quinlan58: Agreed except the last thing where it's subjective.

I don't really like the poll option. What if you considered Joker to be on Vader's tier prior to his solo movie?

Look, I think Joker was a great movie, but let's not overpraise it. That just leads to others wanting to tear it down.

The Joker is possibly bigger than Vader. Joker has been a household name since the 60s. the kids of the 60s grew up watching Joker in the Adam West Batman show. the kids of the 70s and early 80s grew up watching Joker in Super Friends. then there was Batman (1989) which was one of the highest grossing movies of the 1980s. kids of the 1990s also grew up watching The Joker in Batman: TAS.

Vader only came on the scene in the late 70s, and then disappeared in the mid 80s. people who grew up in the 60s-70s were more familiar with Joker, same with people who grew up in the late 80s to late 90s more familiar with the Joker through Batman 89 and Batman TAS. Vader started becoming popular again somewhere in the late 90s because of the Special Edition re-releases in 1997 and then the Prequels beginning in 1999.

I think the Ledger Joker has damaged the character dramatically, because there's a significant disconnect with the classic version. we basically have two Jokers now, Classic Joker from the old comics, cartoons, movies etc, and then modern grungy Joker from Ledger to present. classic Joker was bigger than Vader, grungy Joker is not as big.

Joker is bigger and better. Vader living off one liners and a robotic voice add in the fact that they pretty much destroyed his character in the prequels

Joker was leagues ahead Vader much before any movie.

Joker was above Vader before the solo movie tbh.

Poll options like these are annoying. The definitive Joker for me is Mark Hamill's, Ledger is a solid Joker too. Phoenix's Joker was a great character though not as good as the aforementioned two as The Joker specifically.

As for the OP's question, yes he's in the same league.

He's better. Has been for some time.

Ledger Joker is up there with Vader.

Phoenix Joker isn't up there with Vader.

What are your thoughts on Ledger Joker outside of there being a disconnect with the classic version?

It's difficult for me to view it in any other way, since that's the most notable thing about it to me. but I think Ledger was generally a good actor, and something about his performance in that movie struck a chord with people at the time.

@combo-man: Always great to get your take. Much obliged.

@infantfinite128: Thanks, I appreciate it.

They were already same tier prior to the Todd Phillips film. In terms of being a villain, I’d say the Joker character is above Vader. Who’s more popular or icon, idk that’s really close imho

Yes. They’re in the same tier. They’re both some of the best villains of all time.

Who honestly considers Vader of all characters to be the best villain of all time?

Vader is a cool villain for sure but that’s it.

Now if we are talking about popular villains than yeah Vader is high on the list.

People should really stop using “best” to define something when they are actually just talking about how popular a character is.

It’s the same how people make best anime of all time list and dragon ball always make the list even tho there are more qualified anime.

Joker is good but he is not all that great IMO. I feel like they are in the same tier.

Joker is a better concept. He stands for crime & chaos and is ideological opponent to Batman who stands for law & order. Vader is an awesome bad guy

Joker > Vader

They are probably in the same tier overall, but Joker got massively better with time, while Vader peaked at inception.

off topic I just realised joker is vader's son

OT: joker due to being there long before darth vader

They’re both in the same tier and that tier is pretty empty, the only other character that I can think of is maybe Dracula but even that is a stretch

Joker has always been up there with Vader tbh

Joker been on the same tier as Vader popularity wise, the movie didn't really contribute to it.

@ggtinypp: nah Dracula really isn’t much a stretch honestly. Dracula is literally everywhere

Oh, I completely forgot about the classic monsters. Of course, characters like (Lugosi's) Dracula, (Karloff's) Frankenstein's Monster and Nosferatu are at least as iconic as these two, if not as popular (there's a difference).

Both are equally iconic, the Joker movie didn’t change anything

But they're quite different. The Joker is incredibly maniacal and does very questionable, violent and cruel things even just to prove a point but his goals are not the same as Palpatine's. Sidious is arguably even more evil than he is because he is just designed and written that way to have been pure unbridled evil, being aware of it and loving it as well.

As for the OP yes they are in the same tier but I prefer Vader.

@dmnb2wavy:

Who honestly considers Vader of all characters to be the best villain of all time?

Vader is a cool villain for sure but that’s it.

You can't be serious.

I should be questioning you if you believe Vader is the best villain of all time.

@dmnb2wavy: He's one of the best villains for sure, I wouldn't say the best tho.

His presence, design and development and movies are pretty good. I would give him a 9 as a character.

I don't necessarily think he's the best, but he's definitely up there as one of the greatest. Saying 'Vader is a cool villain but that's it' is really underselling the character imo.

It isn’t honestly. His origin is good but I never considered his motives to be really interesting. But regardless he is still a very good villain and As for one of the best that depends on who and what villains we are comparing them to such as movies villains. If it’s just movie villains than yeah I agree with this. but if we are using any and all villains it’s honestly weird to suggest one villain can be put over millions of villains in fiction. The overall point is I can consider a lot of villains in fiction to be one of the best and saying “one of the best” eventually just losses it’s meaning in a sea of villains.

Yep Vader is indeed a good villain tho I’d give him a 8.

@dmnb2wavy: I would rate it with an high 9, i haven't seen the prequels and OG trilogy since years so it might be the reason I am not pushing a 10.

His backstory and figure is pretty interesting, we also have a good ending in ROTJ. I think people rating him over anyone is fair, because SW's OG trilogy is pretty good and he's very iconic and influential.

Keep in mind that I have never read any comic or novels about Star Wars, so by movies only he's in my top 5 for sure.

If we’re talking fame and recognizability, they are close. Joker might be a hair behind Vader, but not significantly so. If Vader is a 9 out of 10, Joker could be a 8.7/10. 10’s would be Mickey Mouse, Superman, probably Batman, maybe Spider-Man. Other 9’s might be Mario, Popeye, Bugs Bunny (he might be a 10). Daffy Duck, Donald Duck, Pac-Man are 8’s Goku and Optimus Prime are in the 7 to 8 range. Etc...

Joker is a better villain and probably more iconic at this point

@sufferedtoker: mmm I don’t think it’s exactly fair tho. the only other thing Vader has over a lot of villains besides good writing is popularity but if you consider that a reason then I guess I have no problem with it. If not that then there is nothing that should make him the best Especially villains over different mediums. this is same problem I have with people saying last of us is the best game of all time.

i guess this is why me and “ the best something list” don’t mesh well. There is just too much things to consider when you want to say something is the best.

@dmnb2wavy: I disagree but fair enough. Like, almost every comment here agrees they're in the same level but the poll is "close".

If you don’t mind me asking besides popularity what puts Vader over the millions of villains in fiction and over other mediums?

as for the comments yeah when it comes to popularity they are definitely on he same lvl tho I already thought joker was as popular before the joker movie

@dmnb2wavy: His design, the fact he is iconic, best villain of a popular franchise, he has enough development in the movies, the voice, and he's interesting in his own.

We got a tragic backstory, him becoming an authoritarian figure and then his redemption in ROTJ. I'd say that's more than enough to be considered good.

I prefer Joker tbh but it's close.