In terms of sheer raw power who is more powerful Beyonder or Micheal ?

anyone ?

this is pre retcon beyonder

and Micheal is from neils cosmology

people who maybe interested @sungsam@etriel@soratoumiga@mister_surreal@cosmic_reign@rampagethefirst@yasindermann@kilgpmktra@rijehu@tonystark6999@bdelloidgrain2

I will answer from the perspective of BASE FACTS and base feats, things and feats seen on panel, rather than dimension interpretations so that this horse shit will die down once for all.

Beyonder's BEST on panel Multiversal feat was shaking a Multiverse.

Michael's BEST on panel, feat was renewing, practically re-creating a Creation Multiverse of evidently Infinite Universes between moments.

Quality wise, Michael has a superior fucking feat without the lip-service wank hogwash,

Your only method of making Beyonder not skimp behind Michael is with dimensional scaling and the benefit of the doubt to Beyonder's self wank and statements which you can also apply in support of Michael.

If you want to argue Outerverse hogwash, and how Beyonder is beyond physics, space and time, then the same could arguably apply to Michael because he moves independent of the existence of the concept of space-time. BOTH can reach Spaceless-Timeless existence and predated such. But Outerverse wank is horse shit anyway because many Universe level beings can exist absolutely independent of space-time as well.

Just as a warning because Marvel fans that lowball DC like to spread this BS fake news that Marvel Abstracts are SO FULL OF FEATS OH MY GOD that is not true. Marvel is actually just as featless and featful as DC in the abstract category really with their own fair share of cosmic plot holes and probably depend on just as much Dimension hogwash as well.

Beyonder erased Death and caused a Trans Multiversal Quake as a side effect of his fight.

Michael basically re created a Multiverse.

Recreating a Multiverse is greater than shaking a Multiverse.

Therefore, Michael.

Pretty much this. Michael has some seriously strong feats. Michael has more raw power than Pre-Retcon Beyonder.

Thanks for mentioning, by the way.

@tonystark6999: np

Well, it seems I have to degrade PR Beyonder and the Beyonders in general in my rankings list, but I'm really surprised because the Beyonders were capable to bring down the LT, and the LT is supposed to be the manifestation of the Marvel Multiverse.

To me it seems that PR Beyonder's powers don't have a great AoE, or they're not really capable to influence a great or a large multiversal distance, but their power influence, is capable to change or greatly influence the fabric of the multiverse by targeting multiversal embodiments or manifestations such as the LT, Eternity, Infinity and so on.

PS:

Where should I place the Beyonders right now?

My Universal Tier list ranking: (Last Update 21.03.2019)

God = SS | The Presence(DC), The-One-Above-All(Marvel)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abstract = +S, S | The Beyonders(Marvel) Rank +S, Lucifer (DC) Rank +S, Living-Tribunal(Marvel) Rank S, Michael Demiurgos(DC) Rank S

Skyfather = -S, +A, A | Zen-Oh(DBS) Rank -S, Anti-Monitor (DC) Rank +A

Sub-Skyfather = -A, +B, B,-B | Superman POM Rank -A, Thanos IG Rank B, Odin(Marvel) Rank -B

Herald = +C, C, -C, +D, D | Dr.Manhattan (DC) Rank +C, Hank Henshaw Phantom Ring (DC) Rank C, Base Thanos Rank D

Mid-Herald = -D,+E, E,-E, +F | Goku (DBS) Rank -D, Boros (OPM) Rank +F

Low-Herald = F, -F, +G, G, -G | Hulk Rank F

Metahuman = +H, H, -H, +I, I ,-I | Ryo Shimazaki (Mob Psycho 100) Rank H

Mid-Metahuman = +J, J, -J, +K, K, -K, +L, L , -L |

Low-Metahuman = +M, M, -M, +N, N, -N, +O, O, -O, +P, P, -P | Killua (HxH) Rank +P

High-Street = ZZ |

Mid-Street = +Z, Z, -Z |

Low-Street = +Y, Y, -Y, +X, X, -X |

Micheal plane and simple.

Neils cosmology is what? Infinite dimensional? Ok, let's start:

Beyonder is my favourite multiversal character, but he is really overrated. The funny thing is that he has the worst offensive multiversal feats from DC & marvel high-tiers.

@sungsam Even with dimensional scaling, Michael would win. Etriel showed that the neils cosmology is absolute meaningless to the presence and the source of Michaels power is the presence. With this, he is at least infinite above infinite-dimensional. When it's not said that we must use the Beyonder highballed in the OP, we should just take the most logical interpretation, which would scale Beyonder just to million times above baseline infinite dimensional.

featwise:

• Beyonder's best feat: Shaking a infinite-dimensional multiverse.
• Michaels best feat: Recreate a infinite-dimensional multiverse

Destroying/recreate an infinite-dimensional multiverse>>>>>>>>Shaking an infinite-dimensional multiverse

Dimensional scaling:

• Beyonder: Million times above baseline infinite dimensional
• Michael: An infinite level above baseline infinite-dimensional

Infinite above an baseline infinite-dimensional multiverse>>>>>>>>>>>>>Million times stronger than an infinite-dimensional multiverse/Stronger than an infinite-dimensional multiverse by an finite amount

@sungsam It doesn matter if we use dimensional scaling or not. Beyonder loses.

@yasindermann: wanted to use composite .... But I decided about not going to use it DC vs other fiction thread unless he wants to

Because Composite DC would be too controversial. I would reckon that DC Cosmology experts from both Spacebattles and VSBattles WOULD NOT like it. In fact, they view these forums all the time and comment on my views without name dropping me. Because they have agendas.

Me? I just say interpret DC however you want.

I'm in a state of a political cold war with people from other forums. While on this forum we already have local enemies. It would be too much of a headache for me right now, considering that if you notice, I am more quiet these days.

I am glad my influence is spreading after 1 year, but I still have political rivals errr- Demonbane wankers who are long time members on this board.

@sungsam: Do you most local enimies use VS battle wiki?

Beyonder if it's pre retcon

Pre retcon beyonder

Beyonder has more multiversal feats than shaking it

Beyonder. Don't really care about fan fic from the top comments . by feats beyonder wins.

@dami24434: Beyonder is only really impressive from his statements. By feats he is very weak compated to Michael especially in raw power.

It's ABOUT DANG TIME MICHAEL gets the respect he deserves

Beyonder, obviously.

Well, there is that whole lip service about Beyonder being millions of times more powerful than the entire Marvel Multiverse. But if you wanna do lip service, Michael's power is unending.

Michael also can destroy the entirety of Creation, or rebuild it. When Presence left, the only thing that kept Creation from decaying, and additionally kept it expanding, was Michael. I'd honestly put that up there with anything Beyonder can achieve.

My dad and me are the strongest of the universe

Anyone remembers spell shiwld type 8 from yu go oh? XDd