Idiots on Wally West

@captain13 said:

To add to that last quote--if that's the case, what that tells me -to be very frank- is that Flash and Green Lantern are too big, too important, and too cool for a black character to have, despite millions of people being totally fine with it. I'm just saying what it looks like, and if that's the mindset, it's extremely offensive.

DC only pays lipservice to diversity. Where are the Milestone characters? Where is Jackson Hyde? Why not let this new/old Kid Flash stand on his own like Damian Wayne? Why are no minorities the head of a mythology or franchise?

I have no problems with it whatsoever. Race is an overrated issue. Its still a big deal, but it really shouldn't. One day people will realize this, but for now they don't.

Most comic characters are white because they were created in a time when not being white was inferior. This is clearly not the case, but otherwise there is no other reason.

So people bitching about it being a pointless change (and everything changes at some point, get used to it now) should also realize they're white for pointless reasons.

Wally's skin color has never been apart of who he is. Some characters color is important, but most aren't.

The grand irony in all this btw is that everyone cries for Racial diversity: yet not one supports racial diverse heroes and then companies change the race of an all ready popular hero and people cry about that.

Then they should change Barry's race,or better yet Jay's.Wally isn't from that era.

@fallschirmjager: His skin color was kind of important though, because he was a ginger. One of the few.

Hair color is even more irrelevant than skin color. You can dye your hair ffs.

Wally was created as kid Flash in 1959.

@captainmarvel4ever:

Well Connor Hawke is diferente case. At first he was Red Arrow (Roy Mcqueen) a character from another earth and did few apperances that existed before new 52. Plus is Earth-2, as Scott is GLBT Characters, Connor being white and ginger doesnt matter since it´s from another character. Plus since Helmet of Fate will appear on Constatine, the others characters that now appeared on Earth 2 might appear as Characters of Prime/0 Earth.

@fallschirmjager: You wouldn't think it weird if Superman suddenly became a red head??

DC do this to get a reaction. I haven't seen that much of Simon Baz, have you? The character has got attention for a week until sales drop and they disappear. Why change his skin colour? To be PC? What if they turn Luke Cage white? I don't like changing a characters skin colour or sexual orientation just to get a reaction. It's not racist to think this. But I must be wrong since I'm a white male.

No. He's still every bit as Superman as he will be regardless of the color of his hair.

If they up and decided to change the House of El symbol on his chest - I'd be worried. Hair? Skin? Eye color? (etc). Couldn't care less.

Superman is Superman because of who he is and what he stands for, not because what he looks like.

The reason Simon Baz has stopped being used is because DC never had a real plan for him. They created him so they could kill off John Stewart without looking racist, but when the internet saw the writing on the wall, they had to cancel their plans.

Baz is just a character with Kyle Rayner's personality and John Stewart's engineering background, skin tone, and social consciousness. With John Stewart still around, DC doesn't need to use two ethnic Lanterns, but they are afraid of killing off Baz due to all the hoopla surrounding his debut.

@nerd_of_a_hero: actually pre 52, Alan Scott's son, Obsidian was homosexual.

@farkam: @wardemon32: @captainmarvel4ever: Captain, Connor was my favorite Green Arrow before the reboot. Then again, I came up reading comics in the 90s. Kyle Rayner, Wally West, Connor Hawke. These guys were GL, Flash, and GA to me. Sad to see they've completely changed (dare I say ruined?) the character and stuck him on Earth-2.

Wardemon. Why not just not call this character they're introducing Wally West? What would be so hard about that? Like Red Arrow on E-2. Why not just give him a different name than Connor Hawke. Because for all intents and purposes, these aren't the same characters. They're similar in very broad ways, but overall they're incredibly different.

A spade is a spade. Wally West is Wally West. They can call this new guy w/e they want but it isn't Wally.

And the funniest thing is, new readers don't really care WHAT you call this guy because THEY'RE NEW READERS. All DC does by changing existing characters like this is upset some of the fanbase that's supported them for years and lose (my) money.

Fark. I'm picking up what you're putting down man.

Because there's no need to change a character's race when you can create a new one, Wally was absent from New 52 for 3 years, DC could'v created a new character instead of bringing back Wally. People are against pointless change not racial diversity.

Why? The symbol is pointless, most probably don't even know what it means, DC could just make a new symbol and say it stands for hope. Superman doesn't need a S symbol to show what he stands for.

Alan and Flash aside, I must be the only one that hate what they've done to the Earth 2 Superman. That was the original GA Superman, they retconned him back but basically made him into a murdering psychopath. What a waste.

@onemoreposter: I have no opinion on anything, I was just throwing in the fact that the character's race was changed to white with red hair.

@captain13 said:

@oscars94 said:

DC do this to get a reaction. I haven't seen that much of Simon Baz, have you? The character has got attention for a week until sales drop and they disappear.

The reason Simon Baz has stopped being used is because DC never had a real plan for him. They created him so they could kill off John Stewart without looking racist, but when the internet saw the writing on the wall, they had to cancel their plans.

Baz is just a character with Kyle Rayner's personality and John Stewart's engineering background, skin tone, and social consciousness. With John Stewart still around, DC doesn't need to use two ethnic Lanterns, but they are afraid of killing off Baz due to all the hoopla surrounding his debut.

Exactly. DC doesn't care about diversity, they just want a reaction. They could push characters like John Stewart, Cyborg, Black Lightning and Vixen.

@captain13: Actually Baz has a big role coming up in the next couple of issues of both Justice League, and the main GL comic http://www.thecomicbookcast.com/apps/forums/topics/show/12526475-baz-character-not-completly-lost

@beware_my_power: That I already knew about and that he had a daughter name Jade. Like I said, I don't care much about Alan Scott being gay since their focusing on modern day society and diversity to draw in readers of all areas, but if you want to make a character to be something you want just to satisfy us then make a completely new character or have a forgotten/least used character and make her/him something unique to readers. Having Wally West being black doesn't make him unique or interesting to me, it only makes him a 'booby trap' to get more minority readers and Wally fans back into comics without making an effort of making him unique in his own way - separate from the old Wally West - and be the same 'generic black character'.

@captain13 said:

@oscars94 said:

DC do this to get a reaction. I haven't seen that much of Simon Baz, have you? The character has got attention for a week until sales drop and they disappear.

The reason Simon Baz has stopped being used is because DC never had a real plan for him. They created him so they could kill off John Stewart without looking racist, but when the internet saw the writing on the wall, they had to cancel their plans.

Baz is just a character with Kyle Rayner's personality and John Stewart's engineering background, skin tone, and social consciousness. With John Stewart still around, DC doesn't need to use two ethnic Lanterns, but they are afraid of killing off Baz due to all the hoopla surrounding his debut.

That's so funny. I wouldn't be surprise if that's how they actually acted in their office.

@rustyroy said:

@captain13 said:

@oscars94 said:

DC do this to get a reaction. I haven't seen that much of Simon Baz, have you? The character has got attention for a week until sales drop and they disappear.

The reason Simon Baz has stopped being used is because DC never had a real plan for him. They created him so they could kill off John Stewart without looking racist, but when the internet saw the writing on the wall, they had to cancel their plans.

Baz is just a character with Kyle Rayner's personality and John Stewart's engineering background, skin tone, and social consciousness. With John Stewart still around, DC doesn't need to use two ethnic Lanterns, but they are afraid of killing off Baz due to all the hoopla surrounding his debut.

Exactly. DC doesn't care about diversity, they just want a reaction. They could push characters like John Stewart, Cyborg, Black Lightning and Vixen.

Greatest Web Comic Ever

@rustyroy: If only they already had a black character recently introduced in The Flash that was connected to the speed force...

@project_worm: Yeah, Turbine has already been forgotten hasn't he? And his tragic backstory still hasn't been resolved either.

I know, right?

And Hawkman has a big role on the JLA.

Knowing DC, they'll probably just have Jessica kill Baz off, or they'll turn Baz into a Blue Lantern, to be mostly forgotten when there isn't a big crossover. Eventually, he'll probably become C-List fodder in a major DC event or he'll be rebooted out of existence. Not that most people care, since he has the smallest GL fanbase by far.

@onemoreposter: Thank you for understanding.

@captain13: Personally I would like to see him become a yellow lantern (who is still a good guy), and have john become part of the indigo tribe, and have Kyle become a blue lantern. I think that would be really cool.

@justthatkid: That's just it, you don't need an Asian Garth. They already made a black Aquaman affiliated hero in Kaldur'am who was a huge hit. Instead of just turning Garth black to hit some minority quota, they made a new character in a similar vein, gave him his own interesting personality and backstory, and it took off.

They shouldn't have made Wally West black, they should've just made a new sidekick for Barry if they wanted a black Flash related character. It doesn't preclude Wally from existing and it's an intelligent way to improve the list of minority characters they have rather than the stupid bait. They could've even kept his as the same thing they've turned Wally's character into (two pages in and it's obvious this Wally is nothing like the previous -- probably because the writers of this have admitted to literally never reading a Flash story in their lives, so they were 100% guaranteed to botch it).

@captainmarvel4ever: John only works as a Green to me. He fits in the Corps better than any other human and constantly overcomes his problem with Will rather than Compassion. He's the hard@ss, bad@ss for a reason. If anything, Hal has much stronger ties to the Sinestro Corps and Kyle is more Compassionate. Baz got in trouble in his origin for misusing his Hope. And I don't like the idea of a Muslim character embodying fear and stoking the terrorist accusations, since terrorists, by definition, instill fear.

You may have accidentally predicted the future:

Could Wally West be reincarnated at a young African American boy? Does that mean a Latina Donna Troy is far behind?http://t.co/vkTAib19y9

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01/27/fear-of-a-black-flash/

I actually thing Baz having a yellow ring would be a great way to explore his character. It's dependent on fear, and Baz using it could really work to make a good story detailing how he is seen by others, and how he himself may fear the distrust that ordinary people see in him. I also think John would be better as an indigo, because he does show compassion, and Hal seems more like the model GL to me. Kyle is compassionate, but as someone who loves comics and looks up to heroes, and is a heroe himself, I think he strongly embodies hopefulness.

I would say that since Hal is the maverick GL, he is as far from the model as you can get, or else they would all be like him. John is the model. We just don't agree on the appropriateness of a muslim hero using fear as his weapon. As a White Lantern, Kyle is just a more powerful version of an Indigo Lantern anyway. He uses all the emotions because he is compassionate. Baz put his faith and hope in school. It failed him. He put his hope in people. They failed him. But he continues to hope.

@captain13: No I mean his fearless adventurer spirit makes his character the Model GL. He's like the superhero version of Spike from Cowboy Bebop, or Han Solo. I think John would be better suited fot the Indigo Tribe, because right now in the comics things have been kinda boring with him. It was fun when he had a buddy cop relationship with Guy, but now that Guy is gone, the GL Corps. book has lost what made it fun. I think John should get his own book like Guy, dealing with being part of the Indigo Tribe.

I'm black and crap like this makes me freaking sick. I wan't a mexican wonder woman next.

You're comparing Hal to Han Solo and Spike Spiegal? Hal is a maverick, not a cynical rogue who would shoot first or a scoundrel who would engage in illicit activity. He's a frat boy, and has been since the silver age. At best, he's Tom Cruise in Top Gun.

John is far from boring in the comics right now. Everyone has been praising Jensen's work with John in the comics because he's stepping into the leadership and teaching roles he deserves. The writers totally marginalized him before the writer shift, when he was playing a terrible second fiddle to guy in the worst written of the GL titles.

GLC IS John's own book by the way. He gets more panel time than any character and is the primary focus, as the writers have stated on numerous occasions, but you don't seem to actually be reading the book or paying attention--no offense intended.

We're just not going to agree, so I'm going to end this Green Lantern conversation with you now, considering this is a Wally West thread.

I apologize if I sound harsh or condescending, btw. That's not my intention.

@captain13: Sounds fair, this is meant to be about Wally. For the record though I do know that GLC os Johns book right now, It's just that me and some of the hard core GL fans (which I am not) have found GLC to be kind of boring. I jut think he should be part of the indigo tribe so I can find hik more interesting, and so that he can be cool, like Guy is now. I also still think your not giving Hal enough credit, but if you want to agree to disagree, that's fine.

I don't see what's so racist about wanting an already established character to stay the same, and not be used as some sort of political statement.

I'm black by the way.

The ignorance in this thread is ridiculous...

I don't even care anymore, since it seems like Wally isn't even the same age as Dick or Roy. He'll probably just turn into Damian Wayne's sidekick. It seems like a real reunion of the Fab 5 isn't in the cards.

I mean if you want to make a minority character, just make an original one and flesh them out. Instead of changing already established characters, it's a slap in the face to the fans.

True, but then again, what did you expect?

It's also a race change being done for the wrong reasons, so it's a slap to people who don't normally care about race changing.

But, yes, there is ignorance on all sides here

I know right? And accusing other people of being racist for being outraged at it is idiotic.

A little too much I guess...

@captain13: Exactly, some people are actually racist. Whereas some people are legitimately outraged at a pointless publicity stint/political statement.

@captain13: Last post is for you too.

I still don't understand why this keeps happening. I understand the need for diversity in comics. I think mostly everyone does. That's why you build up existing, but underused characters like Luke Cage and Black Panther, or create new ones entirely. People are ready for that, they will accept it.

I believe it is a mistake to change the character's race because it does reek of good intentions done wrong. The publisher is cramming race down the readers throats because comics are a visual media with characters that have established physical traits. It doesn't change the character in anything but a superficial way, but it does change the character in a very noticeable way (remember the outrage over Wonder Woman with pants? Kind of the same thing.)

In the 80's no one would have believed Luke Cage could lead a team of Avengers, but fast forward twenty years and it is a good example of how to correctly bring a black character to the forefront of comics, building him up to a new status.