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#1 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people are acting like idiots over this thing and some are just coming off as plain old racist. What is wrong with Wally West being black? It's as if you people believe that race shapes who you are as a person.

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#2 Edited by aquaman01 (1948 posts) - - Show Bio

If you don't understand why people are upset, then maybe you shouldn't accuse them of being racist.

For me, it is a pointless change, but even worse, it is just some PC crap that DC did to diversify even though they took the lazy way instead of just creating a black character. It is annoying as heck. Same thing with Alan Scott, it was 100% stupid.

Of course, I just need to avoid Flash, so it isn't really too bad for me as I wasn't more of a Wally fan rather more of a Flash fan. As long as Wally isn't in any comics I read I am fine.

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#3 Posted by Farkam (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

Because I want my favorite character to look more or less the same forever.

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#4 Posted by bigtewell (857 posts) - - Show Bio

For me i hate it when they change a character just for publicity. if it was to have more diversity i would be fine, like with miles morales. but this seems like what they did with simon baz. they had a muslim character tried to shove him down are throats and now he's like nonexistent. wally was my favorite flash (actually when he took over as flash was my first comic subscription to an ongoing) and i dont want to see him go back to the sidelines. id like to see him be a big player again in the dcu.

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#5 Edited by judasnixon (12663 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

I just don't understand why people are getting upset over a comic book character. People act like what goes on in these books is real life.

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#7 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (9130 posts) - - Show Bio

I find no problem with Adawale West haha...any Assassins Creed fans...no ok

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#8 Posted by Farkam (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

I just don't understand why people are getting upset over a comic book character. People act like what goes on in these books is real life.

No they don't. They are venting their frustrations about something that they have mentally invested themselves in. Just because it doesn't matter that much to you doesn't mean they are overreacting.

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#9 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

Because it was a completely unnecessary change. A fan favorite character with 50+ years of history shouldn't have such a big change that was most likely done just for the sake of change. Your right that race doesn't affect Wally as a character, but why change such a well established character?

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#10 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly wouldn't care if he was Samoan as long as he's still basically the same character.

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#11 Edited by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@mrtummytumms said:

I just don't understand why people are getting upset over a comic book character. People act like what goes on in these books is real life.

No they don't. They are venting their frustrations about something that they have mentally invested themselves in. Just because it doesn't matter that much to you doesn't mean they are overreacting.

Seriously, lets be honest here. You guys are overreacting. Both sides are to be honest. People are acting as if this is going to heavily effect their lives. Shut up, sit back, and just enjoy the comics.

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#12 Edited by Farkam (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@mrtummytumms said:

I just don't understand why people are getting upset over a comic book character. People act like what goes on in these books is real life.

No they don't. They are venting their frustrations about something that they have mentally invested themselves in. Just because it doesn't matter that much to you doesn't mean they are overreacting.

Seriously, lets be honest here. You guys are overreacting. Both sides are to be honest. People are acting as if this is going to heavily effect their lives. Shut up, sit back, and just enjoy the comics.

This is a comic book forum. It's meant for just this sort of discussion. Something that doesn't matter much to you apparently. So if anyone needs to shut up and sit back it's you. Done here.

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#13 Posted by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@mrtummytumms said:

@farkam said:

@mrtummytumms said:

I just don't understand why people are getting upset over a comic book character. People act like what goes on in these books is real life.

No they don't. They are venting their frustrations about something that they have mentally invested themselves in. Just because it doesn't matter that much to you doesn't mean they are overreacting.

Seriously, lets be honest here. You guys are overreacting. Both sides are to be honest. People are acting as if this is going to heavily effect their lives. Shut up, sit back, and just enjoy the comics.

This is a comic book forum. It's meant for just this sort of discussion. Something that doesn't matter much to you apparently. So if anyone needs to shut up and sit back it's you. Done here.

I didn't say comics didn't matter to me. But I will acknowledge when people are taking things way to far such as this topic right here. Have you been to the IGN site? Bunch of people calling each other racist and others throwing racist remarks at one another. People on this site calling each other idiots and racists all over a comic book character. It's just sad and it's pathetic.

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#14 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

If you don't understand why people are upset, then maybe you shouldn't accuse them of being racist.

For me, it is a pointless change, but even worse, it is just some PC crap that DC did to diversify even though they took the lazy way instead of just creating a black character. It is annoying as heck. Same thing with Alan Scott, it was 100% stupid.

Of course, I just need to avoid Flash, so it isn't really too bad for me as I wasn't more of a Wally fan rather more of a Flash fan. As long as Wally isn't in any comics I read I am fine.

I understand why some people are upset. It's because they are racist. This is the exact same thing with the Rue case in Hunger Games when people were outraged when Rue, the character that everyone loved, was a little black girl. And somehow her being a black girl makes her less likeable and can't be loved the way she was before.

"diversity crap" huh. Give me a list of 10 Black Superheroes in DC. Then take half of that list and tell me if they are even relevant. And then pick out all of those Superheroes that are even known to the public. I'll wait..

"as long as he's not in any comics you read you're fine"? Because it would somehow kill you to see a black character. I'm sorry for your serious condition.

@farkam said:

Because I want my favorite character to look more or less the same forever.

Why does looks have to do with his character? Is that why you liked him? Because he was white?

For me i hate it when they change a character just for publicity. if it was to have more diversity i would be fine, like with miles morales. but this seems like what they did with simon baz. they had a muslim character tried to shove him down are throats and now he's like nonexistent. wally was my favorite flash (actually when he took over as flash was my first comic subscription to an ongoing) and i dont want to see him go back to the sidelines. id like to see him be a big player again in the dcu.

Publicity or they want more relevant black characters within their stories? If they were to make a new black character would you actually take the time of day to actually read him/her? Do you think them making a new character would even get noticed period? Shoved him down your throats? How exactly? Was making a muslim cahracter too hard for you? How does his religion even become relevant? What,do you want him to be a Christian for some off reason?

@skit said:

Because it was a completely unnecessary change. A fan favorite character with 50+ years of history shouldn't have such a big change that was most likely done just for the sake of change. Your right that race doesn't affect Wally as a character, but why change such a well established character?

And you don't think the New-52 was a completely unnecessary change? New-52 tried to re-invent their stories and give different aspects. That's exactly what they did. Why not change a well established character? If you're not going to change anything then what would be the point of retconning Wally West in the first place?

As a Wally West fanboy I'm baffled that people could have such a reaction to a character they supposedly love.

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#15 Edited by Farkam (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: When I like a character I like everything about them. Including how they look. I don't want their main versions to change in any unnecessary way either ( I don't care about the movies or alternate worlds). Also Wally isn't my favorite my character. I was just explaining that I would be equally pissed if my favorite characters were changed as such.

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#16 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam:

So his skin color is going to be seeable through a suit now?

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#17 Posted by aquaman01 (1948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: Well, first, I know nothing about Hunger Games except that I enjoy the movies especially the 2nd one though I understand your comparison. Second, you are being very ignorant on purpose. You are repeatedly saying that all people who don't like this change are racists, which implies that I am racist too. Where I come from, that is as bad as saying something racist, if not worse.

1. Cyborg

2. John Stewart

3. Mr. Terrific

4.Jason (Firestorm)

5. Black Lightning

6. Static

7. Vixen

8. Batwing (could count for two as there was David and now currently Luke)

9. Steel

10. Ya'Wara

And then there are people like Skitter (who is horrible I must admit), Matu, Al Jabar (he might be muslim I think; too bad he is dead). And, not only was I trying to keep the list in New 52, I could have mentioned all the super villains or anti-heroes (unless you only wanted super-heroes).

And I am not disagreeing with you about the exposure. At best 5, MAYBE, 6 the public would know. But guess what? Public exposure doesn't equal no one cares about them. Most of the people I said? Huge fan bases. You want to know about public exposure? The public mainly thinks Aquaman is a joke, yet comic fans know the truth; the same way comic fans know that popularity doesn't equal fandom. Sure, it sucks that many black characters don't get the credit compared to white characters. But that is because they aren't pushed that much (or any at all). DC wants money, so they will push people like Superman or Batman instead of people like Vixen or Jason (all though he was in Batman the brave and the bold).

See, I am sorry that I cannot talk to you. You would have had a good point if you were not an offensive person. You think I don't like to read about black people? You are a sick...I want to say how horrible you are for literally twisting my words (you would make a good politician though lol).

Whatever, go on believe that people can't have an opinion about changing a white person into black without being racist. Guess what? I like it when characters change on their own, not some force fed crap.

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#18 Posted by Beware_My_Power (4605 posts) - - Show Bio

PICTURE, NEED PICTURE!!!!!

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#19 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

@aquaman01 said:

@wardemon32: Well, first, I know nothing about Hunger Games except that I enjoy the movies especially the 2nd one though I understand your comparison. Second, you are being very ignorant on purpose. You are repeatedly saying that all people who don't like this change are racists, which implies that I am racist too. Where I come from, that is as bad as saying something racist, if not worse.

1. Cyborg

2. John Stewart

3. Mr. Terrific

4.Jason (Firestorm)

5. Black Lightning

6. Static

7. Vixen

8. Batwing (could count for two as there was David and now currently Luke)

9. Steel

10. Ya'Wara

And then there are people like Skitter (who is horrible I must admit), Matu, Al Jabar (he might be muslim I think; too bad he is dead). And, not only was I trying to keep the list in New 52, I could have mentioned all the super villains or anti-heroes (unless you only wanted super-heroes).

And I am not disagreeing with you about the exposure. At best 5, MAYBE, 6 the public would know. But guess what? Public exposure doesn't equal no one cares about them. Most of the people I said? Huge fan bases. You want to know about public exposure? The public mainly thinks Aquaman is a joke, yet comic fans know the truth; the same way comic fans know that popularity doesn't equal fandom. Sure, it sucks that many black characters don't get the credit compared to white characters. But that is because they aren't pushed that much (or any at all). DC wants money, so they will push people like Superman or Batman instead of people like Vixen or Jason (all though he was in Batman the brave and the bold).

See, I am sorry that I cannot talk to you. You would have had a good point if you were not an offensive person. You think I don't like to read about black people? You are a sick...I want to say how horrible you are for literally twisting my words (you would make a good politician though lol).

Whatever, go on believe that people can't have an opinion about changing a white person into black without being racist. Guess what? I like it when characters change on their own, not some force fed crap.

Ignorant on purpose? Funny. Lets look back at what I said.

Some people are acting like idiots over this thing and some are just coming off as plain old racist. What is wrong with Wally West being black? It's as if you people believe that race shapes who you are as a person.

Please read that a couple times for me.

How long did it take you to make a list of characters who gets little to no spotlight except for Static and Cyborg becuase they had TV shows?

Public exposure means a lot in this case. Why try to bring diversity and introduce someone when you know they aren't going to be known? Why aren't they pushed that much? Because people don't want to read black cahracters which is obvious in Flash case as of now. How many comics do you have of the people that you just listed?

Also, how did I twist your words? If so, explain yourself.

Of course, I just need to avoid Flash, so it isn't really too bad for me as I wasn't more of a Wally fan rather more of a Flash fan. As long as Wally isn't in any comics I read I am fine.

"i jus need to avoid Flash......as long as wally isn't in any comics I ream I am fine."

Really? I'll just wait for your explanation.

I believe that you can have an opinion on this topic but it'll most likely be stupid. The only valid point I could ever see is if theyw ere to change him in the same continuity somehow. I fail to see how it is "forced" because they were trying to be innovative and different. It totally makes sense that a character can just somehow change their skin tone. And they are not "changing" becuase they are different people. THIS IS NOT THE SAME CONTINUITY. EVERYTHING WAS RETCONNED. EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS A LIE.

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#20 Posted by HumanRocket (11234 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh I just say this to Wally West fans...at least his alive. Richard Rider (Nova Prime) one of my favorite characters has been dead for a couple of years and if he would come back as an Asian, African American or even Latino...I wouldn't mind it one bit so long as I could continue to read stories based of him it shouldn't matter.

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#21 Edited by AweSam (7534 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally couldn't care less. Wally's still Wally. I can understand why people might care and I definitely wouldn't use the word "racist" in this situation.

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#22 Edited by Pperspectiveandreality (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

If it doesn't change anything what was the point aside from a hamfisted attempt at diversity? If it doesn't make the story better then it serves no purpose. This move serves no purpose but to add more color. You want to know how to add different types of characters? It takes 2 ounces of brain power; feature the new character in an already prominent book, develop the character and fans WILL respond and be vocal about things they like. Cultivate that characters mythology in the already established book. If things go well give the character a mini series. If the sales are good give them a more prominent role in the already prominent book, and then, after you have gotten people to love the character, give them a solo. But do not just put another 2.99 book on the shelf and expect me to pick it up. And do not just arbitrarilly change a character because, "diversity".

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#23 Edited by ARMIV2 (10074 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Beware_My_Power (4605 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by ARMIV2 (10074 posts) - - Show Bio

@beware_my_power: I guess so? I think there was a mention of time-travel being involved from what little of the article about this I skimmed through.

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#26 Posted by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: I know you were talking to aqua but....

1. Miles (he was in the news alot...)

2. Storm (c'mon...)

3. Cyborg (common knowledge)

4. Black Panther (soon..)

5. Luke Cage

6. John Stewart

7. Spawn (had a movie and a game)

8. Static (had his own show)

9. Kaldur

10. Mister Terrific

11. War Machine (my MOM knows him..)

12. Falcon (same)

13. Vixen

14. Darwin

15. Blade (his movies were pretty successful)

Those are off the top of my head. I can keep going.

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#27 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: My one small qualm with this argument is that if a traditionally black character became white people would be outraged and no one would cry racism over that. I personally have no issue with Wally being black but we shouldn't just automatically assume anyone who opposes this is racist. Some people just don't like change at all, while others just see it as a bid for attention from Flash writers instead of actually being necessary to the story. Sure there are probably some that base their opposition on racism whether they know it or not but you can't just automatically assume everyone who doesn't like it is racist.

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#28 Posted by AweSam (7534 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Is this because I said I would use the word "racist"? That was a typo. I meant to say that I wouldn't.

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#29 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: that 't is important sometimes.

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#30 Posted by Mediocregeist (727 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: My one small qualm with this argument is that if a traditionally black character became white people would be outraged and no one would cry racism over that.

Exactly! I usually don't care about things like this, but I never got why turning a white character black "did not change the core of the character, yadda yadda" while turning a black character white is just "racist whitewashing"

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#31 Posted by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@awesam: My one small qualm with this argument is that if a traditionally black character became white people would be outraged and no one would cry racism over that.

Exactly! I usually don't care about things like this, but I never got why turning a white character black "did not change the core of the character, yadda yadda" while turning a black character white is just "racist whitewashing"

Yes, yes. Muthaf***ing yes!!

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#32 Posted by aquaman01 (1948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: I will apologize that you didn't say all of the people against it are racist. However, does that mean I am an idiot? You said some are racist and some are idiots. I am neither, just a person stating my opinion (a popular one on that) about how this is stupid, which I assume is the majority of the people who you are calling racist or idiots (though I am not saying there aren't racists, just that the majority aren't).

However, you are acting like you didn't imply that I was being racist, yet you clearly state I am not reading this comic because Wally is a black person...even though I literally said,

"For me, it is a pointless change, but even worse, it is just some PC crap that DC did to diversify even though they took the lazy way instead of just creating a black character."

In my second paragraph. I already answered your question. I am not reading it because they changed Wally from white to black, not because I don't want to read black characters. If that makes me a racist, then I guess I am homophobic and racist...to my own color. I mean, I apparently can't like race bending or I am a racist, so being offended by the Last Airbender because it had white people or Dragonball Evolution had white people means I don't like it because I can't watch anything with white people. Not because they needlessly changed the race for zero reasons. Since, y'know, I can't just have my own opinion about DC loving gimmicks and PC. I don't care if Wally is the same character, I think you misunderstand me. I don't ...care that much about Wally's character, personality, race...(although I do like the character). It is why I can live with different personalities like Billy Batson. What I care about is trying to be PC and being lazy.

BTW, it took me like 20 seconds to come up with those names lol I can name A LOT more of DC black characters if we include super villains and pre-52. You do know that the reason the DC doesn't publicize them is because they aren't as big as Superman or many other white heroes right? And when they do, they either still don't succeed or they do (Aqualad YJ, Static). DC is a company who cares only about money, so get mad to them about not trying to get more people interested in there diverse black characters.

lol you are saying that people don't want to read Flash because it has a black person in it? That is sad. Whatever, enjoy Wally. It is a new universe as you said. Unlike you, I am not going to be rude and mean and call people who like this mean names. Like I said, as long as Wally or any other PC character isn't in my comic I am fine.

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#33 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (17944 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both sides of this are being whiny and unsympathetic to each other's plights. I understand the complaints from both sides.

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#34 Posted by ShadowX (1329 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason of reimagining, because that is what this is. This is a new Wally West for a NEW universe. And anyways my original point is changing a white character to another race is okay because the majority of of fictional characters are actually already white.( at least in an american/western culture) Meanwhile there are few characters tha are black, asian, latina, native american, etc and even fewer that our portrayed respectfully, so if you were to take one of those characters and make them white your taking away another positive representation.

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#35 Edited by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I'm mostly neutral in this, because I am not a Wally West fan, but I do lean more towards the fans who feel his character is being betrayed, because I can relate. However I think it is only fair to both sides that I bring this up:

In Earth-2, Connor Hawk is the new Red Arrow, and has gone from being a 1/4 black multiracial character, to a caucasian with red hair.

Pre New 52
Pre New 52
Post New 52
Post New 52

➡New 52➡

Again, I am mostly neutral, but lean more toward the fans who are upset by the changes to Wally, yet still understand why many people support the change as well. I have no interest in debating this change, but thought that I should share this information. I hope everything can be worked out for the better.

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#36 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: I don't think people realize that we're lucky to have Wally back at all considering how hard DC was trying to make us forget he ever existed before this.

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#37 Edited by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt said:

I think both sides of this are being whiny and unsympathetic to each other's plights. I understand the complaints from both sides.

Wouldn't that mean there are THREE sides, Mr. Bolt??

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#38 Edited by BlackWind (9790 posts) - - Show Bio

Unnecessary change.

There weren't many ginger A list heroes in the first place. Now Wally is gone. There is no thing special about his new look now. He just looks regular.

Lazy change.

Instead of tying to not be half assed on the black characters like Static, or just make a new Flash, they change an established and well loved character.

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#39 Posted by bigtewell (857 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 Bro im muslim and i dont mind a muslim character. so the fact that you would just assume im racist, even though i gave legitimate reasons for my opinion that wasnt based on race, is very childish. Yes they shoved simon down our throats. he was on the cover of everything and put into several books and they tried to do different things to make him edgy. like giving a guy who has the power to create any weapon he wants a guy (like seriously its useless for him when he can make a mini gun with unlimited bullets). After like 3 issues he just dissappeared.

D.C has plenty of african american characters that would be popular if they were used. like static, cyborg, and john stewart. Cyborg got moved to the justice league but they havent done anything with his character. Young justice invented a new aqualad that was very popular but they havent been using him. People love static and wanted him in injustice but they didnt use him. Batwing was also a decent read but he didnt get enough exposure

I just think dc should actually try to use their underused but popular characters instead of just changing other characters. Like i want a static book, i want to see more aqualad, i want more cyborg but dc just wants to take the easy way out and make an already popular character a different race instead of actually having to write something new for existing characters.

If they came out with an african american character that sounded cool i'd definitely give him a shot. Like i love miles morales on ultimate spiderman. did i like ultimate peter better? yes i did. but miles is an amazing character who was completely new and is successful. If dc came up with a black flash or black kid flash and if he was done right i would totally read him.

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#40 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigtewell: Just want to throw this out there, DC did make a Static book for the New 52

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#41 Posted by Spideysense44 (3839 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate forums like this it makes everyone look bad :(

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#42 Posted by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigtewell: Just want to throw this out there, DC did make a Static book for the New 52

With a below average creative team..

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#43 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by MonsterStomp (36708 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't know Wally was black...

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#45 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Because comic fans will find anything to complain about.

No Caption Provided

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#46 Posted by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't know Wally was black...

His name is "Wallace Rudolph West" it was bound to happen eventually...

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#47 Posted by MonsterStomp (36708 posts) - - Show Bio

@project_worm: ... I'm lost. Did he finally make an appearance in the New 52?

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#48 Posted by Project_Worm (4302 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by ImmortalOne (4064 posts) - - Show Bio

There will be inevitable jokes about a Black superspeed character

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#50 Posted by MonsterStomp (36708 posts) - - Show Bio