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@joviolma:

But this have nothing to do with the disintegration, the TSOs effects are very fast when it comes to Juubito because we actually saw they disintegrating Minato's kunai that effortless sliced through Gyuki before he could barely move a few inches, Tobirama's clone whereas interacted with the TSO charged and gave back to Obito while still having time to say he was giving it back to him, all of this stuff happened without Tobirama's hand disappear or suffer any disintegrating effect.

Yeah, which was exactly what happened against Minato, The TSB where moving to him at high speeds,he "grabbed" it with his jacket,teleported with it in an instant ,arrived at his location and then took his jacket off, (off screen) all before the TSB could disintegrate him. except Minato's feat was more impressive considering the balls were actually moving at high speeds and if he was any slower they could plough and disintegrate their way right through him, unlike in Tobirama's case when the orb was stationary.

????? When this happened ? I only remember him teleport away Madara's TSOs with him, but the part of his cloak that was touched was disintegrated, he was just fast enough to remove it before the TSO touch his body.

Yeah that's the one, it all came down to speed. Which Tobirama also had. He could teleport the orbs the instant he touched it, in other words he could transport the orbs before the disintegration of his hand took place

We don't know why exactly Tobirama used a clone, as far we know he had no knowledge that Juubito could nullify ninjutsu till that point and outright stated that teleport a clone is far slower, meaning he could have done that by himself in a faster scale but choose to not do for no reason however.

It's presumptuous to say, he used a clone for no reason. When prior to this point we know clones are used to avert unnecessary damage/risk and that TSB at this point was noted to disintegrate the target. Even with their Edo bodies it took time to regenerate, so it makes sense he used a slower clone to avoid the unnecessary damage he would have suffered from the TSB and probably knew it was a suicide feat to begin with.

But there is no context behind FTG, is just a space time ninjutsu that will teleport you to a marked location.

I know what FTG does. I meant the context behind the scenes. FTG can only teleport what the user is in contact with, TSB disintegration is slower than FTG instant teleportation. If it wasn't slower then the teleportations wouldn't have happened in the first place. This was proven in Three scenes.

1. When Obito attached his TSB to Minato in his attack, so Minato could teleport with it.

2. Against Madara, Minato could teleport with the TSB the moment it touched his jacket.

3. Tobirama could teleport with the charged TSO bomb.

Now where i am going with this is; you cant use Tobirama's feat as proof ,via assuming the charged TSB didn't disintegrate his hand. Because like other consistent showings of TSB vs FTG, Tobirama's teleportation is instant and TSB disintegration is slower than that. Disintegration or not he could teleport those orbs while touching it, just as Minato did.

But there was no TSO on that occasion, when Toneri uses SWRE, the TSOs completely disappear and they create another form losing the effects they usually have.

The TSO didn't disappear, they just changed form and turned into that silver rotating thingy, which generated a lot of winds/shockwave with its rotation

We can even see in the video that they were inside the tornado and were hit by those winds, if the SWRE has the same effects as the TSOs it should be expected that they would be disintegrated or at very least affected by any effect the TSOs should usually have as obviously speaking, wind that hits them is the same wind as the Tornado is made of and should logically disintegrate people which it didnt, even the crust that was hit by the Tornado didn't disintegrated it was crushed and had parts of it spread across the moon.

The wind are just ordinary winds kicked up the attack. The attack itself-the TSO charged form was that silver coloured rotating stuff. Hence the name silver wheel rebirth explosion ......IIRC that silver stuff didn't hit the characters directly, probably because there was a large hole in the attack, Naruto and Hinata were right in the midst of SWRE AOE and they had enough space to surf through the attack relatively undisturbed.

Pretty sure this would then by a anti-feat as we know that this attack on panel made a large hole in the Moon crust while blasting away with it a huge part of a forest which seems too much for anyone not named Naruto, Hinata and Sakura to tank,

There's no need for it to be an antifeat, because when looked at critically, they didn't tank the attack in every sense of the word. The silver "TSB" didn't touch them,They where just ravished by remnants of its shockwave. Either way if we insist shikamaru and Co tanked the attack, then it would be an antifeat that an attack of that level failed to deal any sort of damage and similarly it would be an antifeat that the attack failed to disintegrate.

my point is not they tanking any attack, my point is how those attacks Toneri displayed while using TSOs in different forms lacked any disintegration effects,

And we aren't sure of this considering it didn't hit anyone who isn't six-path-juiced-up directly.

his TSOs for example are charged with his chakra, when such a thing happen, TSO users or Six Paths Chakra users are not an exception for the disintegration rule, they will be affect by it, as a proof of that, Juubito charged his TSO and expanded it damaging himself in the process despite his already resistant to TSOs.

While six path users are immune to TSO's passive disintegration. They are not immune to its attacks, For example, They can be used to deal damage as blunt force weapons like the way Madara used his against Obito and Naruto used his against Madara's limbo and they can be used as techniques like the juubito TSO bomb scenario. TSO bomb harmed juubito because it was an explosion of some sort, the immunity to disintegration rule was still in effect, if it wasn't in effect his whole body would have being erased considering that explosion was at least 5 times his size.

Toneri's orbs in the other hand when changed form lacked this, we know that they were in a similar manner as Juubito charged with his Tenseigan chakra but the wind his tornado release failed to disintegrate anyone even the forest or the crust, and the cage he created using the same TSOs also could be touched by Hinata.

Like i said before, Hinata has six path Chakra (Hamura's version) and Of course the wind kicked up by the attack won't disintegrate anyone, The actual SWRE attack would have the disintegration effect( that is the silver spinning thing), then again, and the forest is a good point but regular TSO despite their disintegration effect still crush things with their mass,that and the attack generated shockwaves which made it hard to tell if disintegration was taking place or not.

That was BSM Naruto, the novel and Retsu no Sho confirmed this already though.

The sage mode used along with the chakra mode was six path sage mode, not toad sage mode. Which is why i said SPSM(six path sage mode). It couldn't be toad sage mode, considering he didn't do the stay still and gather nature energy thing.

WDYM ? Six Paths user are completely vulnerable by TSOs if they have chakra with them,

Yeah they are vulnerable to its attacks but are immune to its disintegration.

even Naruto was trying to avoid direct contact with the Greens TSOs despite still having six paths chakra.

I am sure those high speed balls of energy would have dealt damage to Naruto, but not the disintegrating kind, cuz he is immune to that.

But Madara's TSOs were useless against Six Paths chakra users unless you charge them with chakra,

They weren't useless, they were still a threat to Obito who was a six path Chakra user.

Naruto only stabbed Kaguya's arm with one

And turn Madara's limbo into a pin cushion with the rest.

and Juubito could freely kill everyone as long he target their bodies cuz Senjutsu only allows you to make contact with TSOs with your jutsus but your body is still vulnerable.

I really don't think we know much about this to make it a fact.

as proved when Madara sliced a SM Minato's arm nullifying his regeneration despite he possessing Senjutsu travelling through his body,

Minato wasn't completely vulnerable though, he had a Chakra cloak on. You're forgetting the TSB can also be useful as weapons and it was not beyond Madara's AP to wreck Minato's arm with a casual attack. Although Minato was using sage mode, Edo tensei isn't a senjutsu so it makes sense it got nullified.The disintegration effect and the nullification effect are 2 seperate abilities.

but was surprised knowing that Naruto could touch his TSO despite being aware of SM.

Was Madara aware of Naruto's sage mode though??? Anyway it's a stretch,but I guess this would somewhat support the fact that regular sage mode users can't touch TSB without their Chakra. But it would only apply for regular senjutsu users and not six path senjutsu users. Cuz in the same scene you're referencing Naruto did touch those TSB with his bare hand and foot,along with six path Chakra and six path senjutsu users who have directly touched TSB on panel.

Anyhoo my point isn't who can touch TSB or not, my point is TSB is still useful and still pose a threat against six path/senjutsu despite their immunity to its disintegration and nullification, and this was shown in several scenarios throughout the series.

I'm aware that TSOs have a weight, my point is how the difference in impact between SWRE/GWRE and those effects to the TSOs

The TSB got used as a special technique, so of course they have some added effect, but I still don't see prove they lost their disintegration ability.

Lol.... At least one piece has being kicking both their asses in sales for a decade.

Yeah, which was exactly what happened against Minato, The TSB where moving to him at high speeds,he "grabbed" it with his jacket,teleported with it in an instant ,arrived at his location and then took his jacket off, (off screen) all before the TSB could disintegrate him. except Minato's feat was more impressive considering the balls were actually moving at high speeds and if he was any slower they could plough and disintegrate their way right through him, unlike in Tobirama's case when the orb was stationary.

Not exactly seeing your point or what you are trying to make, Minato indeed as fast enough to remove his cloak before the TSOs keep moving and dig more to reach his actual body, but the part that was hit was disintegrated in the process and the speed that the TSOs manipulated by Madara are not that fast considering that Kakashi, Guy and Lee can react to them several time before they could reach a target, we also know that the range whose they can travel is at least 70m and once they cross said distance their movement suddenly stop, Minato was out of Madara's range so their movement stopped when that happened, even the disintegration process stopped as they weren't destroying the ground or damaging it. Although I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. Minato's clothes that were hit were destroyed, Tobirama's hand wasn't despite remain in contact with the TSO longer tha Minato.

Yeah that's the one, it all came down to speed. Which Tobirama also had. He could teleport the orbs the instant he touched it, in other words he could transport the orbs before the disintegration of his hand took place

But there is nothing to do with the speed because the part that was touched by the TSO disappeared once it hit his cloak, and Minato removed them when they were outside Madara's range ceasing their high speed movement, when BM Minato attacked a TSO staff for example, his Kunai was disintegrated before he could even move a few inches, whereas the stance with Tobirama was clearly perceived by his team, making unlikely he could have grabbed the TSO, teleport, still holding it and don't being affected, specially when a TSO attack was vaporizing him equally in speed as everyone else against a unstable Juubito.

It's presumptuous to say, he used a clone for no reason. When prior to this point we know clones are used to avert unnecessary damage/risk and that TSB at this point was noted to disintegrate the target. Even with their Edo bodies it took time to regenerate, so it makes sense he used a slower clone to avoid the unnecessary damage he would have suffered from the TSB and probably knew it was a suicide feat to begin with.

This is highly unlikely. There is indeed no reason for Tobirama to have used a clone, his motives weren't explained at all, but everything we know is that the manga confirmed was unaware that Juubito could kill them with their Yin-Yang release as he didn't wielded this style when they fought for the first time proved when he pointed out that it was weird that Minato didn't regenerated yet. The best we can assume is that Tobirama was simple worried about not regenerate in time cuz of the Juubi's power having inside of it Kurama's chakra as well that can slow down the regeneration of Edos, so is unlikely he thought he would kill himself doing this.

I know what FTG does. I meant the context behind the scenes. FTG can only teleport what the user is in contact with, TSB disintegration is slower than FTG instant teleportation. If it wasn't slower then the teleportations wouldn't have happened in the first place. This was proven in Three scenes.

1. When Obito attached his TSB to Minato in his attack, so Minato could teleport with it.

2. Against Madara, Minato could teleport with the TSB the moment it touched his jacket.

3. Tobirama could teleport with the charged TSO bomb.

Now where i am going with this is; you cant use Tobirama's feat as proof ,via assuming the charged TSB didn't disintegrate his hand. Because like other consistent showings of TSB vs FTG, Tobirama's teleportation is instant and TSB disintegration is slower than that. Disintegration or not he could teleport those orbs while touching it, just as Minato did.

But there is no context behind any scene. Is just people using a teleportation technique such as Tobirama grabbing a TSO and giving it back. And those are not proof that the TSOs lost their disintegration power, Tobirama interacting with a TSO and holding it without losing it, and Toneri's techniques change their forms while not disintegrate anyone is again a proof they can't disintegrate people once they are charged with chakra, I'm not arguing for FTG being fast enough to teleport TSOs, not sure what you are trying to prove here.

And no FTG is in a instant, the speed whose the user moves between 2 points due is in a instant as it is teleportation but in fact, one can take a time to teleport as Tobirama confirmed that teleport a clone was slower than teleport himself, and TSOs are not slower than FTG, they successfully disintegrated Minato's cloak(the parts touched) and stopped once they were outside Madara's range, and unlike Minato who we saw suffering effects of disintegration, Tobirama wasn't affected by any of this as his hand was still intact, Hinata wasn't affected by a TSO cage despite it being created by TSOs charged with chakra like Juubito's stance, no one was disintegrated by SWRE and GWRE didn't had any feat proving it could disintegrate anyone.

The TSO didn't disappear, they just changed form and turned into that silver rotating thingy, which generated a lot of winds/shockwave with its rotation

The TSO completely disappeared as they are not there anymore, the wind itself was coming from the Tornado that was already a wind based attack, and that attack in a lacked any effects of disintegration similar to the TSOs, making high unlikely that them had disintegration properties, the TSOs also changed form with Hinata and didn't disintegrate anything despite them being charged with chakra and this can damage even those with SP Chakra.

The wind are just ordinary winds kicked up the attack. The attack itself-the TSO charged form was that silver coloured rotating stuff. Hence the name silver wheel rebirth explosion ......IIRC that silver stuff didn't hit the characters directly, probably because there was a large hole in the attack, Naruto and Hinata were right in the midst of SWRE AOE and they had enough space to surf through the attack relatively undisturbed.

Nope, the wind comes from the Tornado, any assumption suggesting that the tornado magically creates a massive wind field and hit people with normal wind seems ill-founded, the Tornado was throwing everyone away all over it's inside and clearly expanded hitting with it's wind field(lacking disintegration btw) the crust of the Moon and the inside's forest, and even throwing Sakura, Sai and Shikamaru outside the place Naruto, Hinata and Toneri were, meaning the Tornado throw them away eventually despite them being in proximity with Naruto and Hinata. And this seems like a bad excuse, they were being throw away by the attack and obviously at some point would hit the SWRE's wind wall, and none of them were damaged by it or were disintegrated, even Naruto survived the explosion between his RS and SWRE without being disintegrated in a similar manner as Juubito when he was hit by his charged TSO, so did Toneri.

There's no need for it to be an antifeat, because when looked at critically, they didn't tank the attack in every sense of the word. The silver "TSB" didn't touch them,They where just ravished by remnants of its shockwave.

Non sense, there is no silver TSO cuz the moment they change their forms they are not TSOs anymore, the crust that was hit by the SWRE and it's surrounds were also wrecked by it's blunt and not disintegrated by it already making the idea of SWRE having the same properties as TSOs moot.

Either way if we insist shikamaru and Co tanked the attack, then it would be an antifeat that an attack of that level failed to deal any sort of damage and similarly it would be an antifeat that the attack failed to disintegrate.

It wouldn't be an anti feat regarding the disintegration cuz that attack never showed any property of disintegration, even when it clashed against Naruto's RS and caused both to detonate, a TSO user can charge his TSO with chakra and damage himself as Juubito proved when he charged it, Toneri uses far more TSOs all of them charged with chakra to assume the form of a tornado, this tornado clashed with RS and detonated not damaging anyone which shouldn't be the case.

And we aren't sure of this considering it didn't hit anyone who isn't six-path-juiced-up directly.

It hit Naruto's team, and being Six Paths user doesn't grant you resistant to charged TSOs, and again, none of his attacks disintegrated anything, we clearly saw that during the SWRE stance and during GWRE that the attack wasn't disintegrating anything but rather breaking them apart.

While six path users are immune to TSO's passive disintegration. They are not immune to its attacks, For example, They can be used to deal damage as blunt force weapons like the way Madara used his against Obito and Naruto used his against Madara's limbo and they can be used as techniques like the juubito TSO bomb scenario.

That was not an attack similar to Naruto's one, and Obito was never attacked by Madara's TSO, the only time this happened he absorbed his chakra thus gaining six paths power in a small scale and blocking his TSOs with the TSO staff he made. Naruto used the TSO to hit Madara's limbo cuz they are solid objects therefore have blunt force. Juubito's stance in a different occasion vaporized the part that was hit by the expansion, and effect that no one hit by a shaped TSO suffered.

TSO bomb harmed juubito because it was an explosion of some sort, the immunity to disintegration rule was still in effect, if it wasn't in effect his whole body would have being erased considering that explosion was at least 5 times his size.

His whole body wasn't disintegrated cuz he was only hit by a part of it, the attack didn't consumed his entire body, it was fired out of their position and the expansion caught in the process half of his body, it didn't changed shape or anything of that sort, it was charged with chakra and disintegrated half of him, so were Toneri's attacks and the cage he created using a TSO and they failed to do that with the Moon's crust, Naruto and the forest, he and Naruto when both attacks collided and exploded etc. Toneri's TSO when they were used in similar manner as Juubito as well to protect himself dissipate the tenseigan chakra around them when they form a shield.

Like i said before, Hinata has six path Chakra (Hamura's version) and Of course the wind kicked up by the attack won't disintegrate anyone, The actual SWRE attack would have the disintegration effect( that is the silver spinning thing),

Nope, she was locked in something that was created using a charged TSO, those same things that can damage Six Paths user, and the wind that hit them was the wind that the SWRE produced, what are you even trying to say now ? The SWRE as well hit the Moon crust and crushed it and spread across the Moon the rocks that were caught in the wind, nothing was disintegrated by that power, Toneri also was aware that Naruto could touch his TSOs and survived the explosion of his SWRE and PRS and used GWRE to finish him off, if GWRE has the same effects as TSOs this is something irrelevant, even the novel only refer the GWRE as a chakra blade and nothing more relevant about it was ever stated anywhere.

then again, and the forest is a good point but regular TSO despite their disintegration effect still crush things with their mass,that and the attack generated shockwaves which made it hard to tell if disintegration was taking place or not.

The things they crush were disintegrated, which wasn't the case with the forest, Toneri and Naruto, and Naruto after being hit by the GWRE which according to has the same effects as the TSOs, we also can clearly slow down the video and noticed that no rock inside the wind of the SWRE was being disintegrated, and several pieces of were spread all over the Moon. And this is basically irrelevant when GWRE is creating by making the TSOs create a blade of light while they surround it, they by themselves are not shapeshifted into a technique.

The sage mode used along with the chakra mode was six path sage mode, not toad sage mode. Which is why i said SPSM(six path sage mode). It couldn't be toad sage mode, considering he didn't do the stay still and gather nature energy thing.

No, it was toad sage mode, the Six Paths Sage Mode is proved as being SPSM by the lack of red pigmentation around the user's eyes as showed in Boruto the Movie, and in the War arc, the 4th Databook as well Naruto's Gaiden where he used both normal SM showing red pigmentation and some time later used his chakra mode that lacked any pigmentation around his body like BSM in the war arc. The manga confirms this, the novel confirms this, there is nothing such as trying to oppose both using as argument Naruto not staying still when 2 other sources debunk this notion making this as a counter argument null, the same person who wrote that thing about Naruto having to stand still is the same guy who wrote the databook saying he was using Sage mode chakra, the point of time-skip is to show the character evolution and him getting strong and showing better control over his power, this only proves Naruto's better control over his chakra now and his evolution seeing how effortless he attained natural energy and entered SM, @batmanplusjay already debated and explained all that stuff in other threads not sure what there is to argue here.

Yeah they are vulnerable to its attacks but are immune to its disintegration.

So why Toneri used GWRE to being with if according to you has disintegration powers just like TSOs ? Which it didn't btw as it was not made by TSOs. And Juubito's arm and half of his body was disintegrated by it when TSO chakra hit the user ?

I am sure those high speed balls of energy would have dealt damage to Naruto, but not the disintegrating kind, cuz he is immune to that.

So GWRE has no reason to be used as it is the same as TSOs, and they wouldn't damage him, he was just avoiding them, he not sell GWRE why would those things inflict damage on them if they were the same thing as GWRE to being with ? Although like a said, GWRE lacks the effects of TSOs and is not made by one.

They weren't useless, they were still a threat to Obito who was a six path Chakra user.

Obito only blocked their attacks cuz he couldn't teleport fast enough with Kamui and couldn't allow Madara to come after him.

And turn Madara's limbo into a pin cushion with the rest.

He stabbed a sealed limbo by shaping the TSOs into rods when we already knew that Six paths power could inflict damage on them.

I really don't think we know much about this to make it a fact.

Madara being surprised Naruto could interact with his TSO despite him already being aware that he was a SM user ?

Minato wasn't completely vulnerable though, he had a Chakra cloak on. You're forgetting the TSB can also be useful as weapons and it was not beyond Madara's AP to wreck Minato's arm with a casual attack.

He was in SM alone when that happened so he had no chakra cloak, and this doesn't changes the fact that he had Senjutsu travelling through his body and still was affected by the TSOs effects.

Although Minato was using sage mode, Edo tensei isn't a senjutsu so it makes sense it got nullified.The disintegration effect and the nullification effect are 2 seperate abilities.

They are 2 abilities that can be countered by the same thing.

Was Madara aware of Naruto's sage mode though??? Anyway it's a stretch,but I guess this would somewhat support the fact that regular sage mode users can't touch TSB without their Chakra. But it would only apply for regular senjutsu users and not six path senjutsu users. Cuz in the same scene you're referencing Naruto did touch those TSB with his bare hand and foot,along with six path Chakra and six path senjutsu users who have directly touched TSB on panel.

I don't know what are you saying but yes, Madara saw Naruto with the toad eyes when he had his Rinnegan 2 times, and wielded a sage power briefly and as showed in the same arc he can feel chakra, suggesting he at some point could felt that Naruto's clone was using SM considering the increased senses one gains with SM.

Anyhoo my point isn't who can touch TSB or not, my point is TSB is still useful and still pose a threat against six path/senjutsu despite their immunity to its disintegration and nullification, and this was shown in several scenarios throughout the series.

Only when their shape are changed in ways that can affect them, such as rods to stab someone, Juubito's stance was difference because his body was half disintegrated by the expansion of his TSO once it was charged with chakra, the thing wasn't shaped to serve as a weapon, rather it was charged with his chakra, expanded and affected him in the process.

The TSB got used as a special technique, so of course they have some added effect, but I still don't see prove they lost their disintegration ability.

I already showed to you they losing their disintegration power with Tobirama's stance despite the clone having a slow teleportation, SWRE causing no disintegration effect on the crust once it hit as well when it hit Toneri and Naruto, and GWRE is not a TSO used a special technique, the TSOs only are used to summon the blade and they keep existing attacking as some kind of ring around it.

@joviolma:

So the posts are getting kinda lengthy and I am kinda short on time so I'll just respond to the major counter points and quote only the counters relevant to the argument.

And no FTG is in a instant, the speed whose the user moves between 2 points due is in a instant as it is teleportation but in fact, one can take a time to teleport as Tobirama confirmed that teleport a clone was slower than teleport himself, and TSOs are not slower than FTG, they successfully disintegrated Minato's cloak(the parts touched) and stopped once they were outside Madara's range, and unlike Minato who we saw suffering effects of disintegration,

About Tobirama's teleportation.

You're skidding off my point. The reason I brought Minato into this was to show that Tobirama could touch and teleport the orb at the same time, as opposed to his hands disintegrating the moment he touched.

I'll just leave you with a question; if you assume the parts of Minato cloak touched by the orbs were "instantly" disintegrated the very moment they came in contact . Then how did Minato teleport them in the first place?? How? considering the FTG user must be in direct contact with what he's teleporting.

and unlike Minato who we saw suffering effects of disintegration, Tobirama wasn't affected by any of this as his hand was still intact,

Except unlike Minato, we never got to see Tobirama's hands(specifically the inside of his palm the TSB touched).as his entire body got erased via the explosion the next instant.

Tobirama was clearly perceived by his team, making unlikely he could have grabbed the TSO, teleport, still holding it and don't being affected,

Which is why I brought Minato's feat which makes it not unlikely because Minato did the exact same thing.

specially when a TSO attack was vaporizing him equally in speed as everyone else against a unstable Juubito.

Against unstable juubito,He wasn't using FTG's instant teleportation at that time, so it makes sense the attack vapourized him. Even If the Attack vapourized him at 0.01 sec that's still way slower than an instant. And they were getting hit on purpose to study his ability, otherwise he could easily escape at that time too.

About SWRE.

If you argue that shikamaru and Co got hit directly,(personally I'll say they weren't) Then this all comes down to what you said before;its an antifeat scenario. Because whether it be by disintegration or by being simply skewered and crushed, they were supposed to be damaged by SWRE but somehow they weren't. So it supports neither of our argument.

Non sense, there is no silver TSO cuz the moment they change their forms they are not TSOs anymore,

Says who exactly???

the crust that was hit by the SWRE and it's surrounds were also wrecked by it's blunt and not disintegrated by it already making the idea of SWRE having the same properties as TSOs moot.

And I keep telling you, that's not enough to make the already established fact about disintegration moot. Considering a TSB that we're 100% sure it disintegrates also did something similar with its blunt force while still 100% possessing its disintegration property.

That was a room sized worth of debris kicked up by 2 TSB the size of a baseball now compare that with the size of debris an attack like SWRE would kick up.

It wouldn't be an anti feat regarding the disintegration cuz that attack never showed any property of disintegration, even when it clashed against Naruto's RS and caused both to detonate,

Both guys are six path/senjutsu users. They are resistant.

a TSO user can charge his TSO with chakra and damage himself as Juubito proved

Yeah they can, but they damage themselves via the attack itself(i.e explosion, sharp force, blunt force) not by the disintegration effect which they should be immune to.

when he charged itToneri uses far more TSOs all of them charged with chakra to assume the form of a tornado, this tornado clashed with RS and detonated not damaging anyone which shouldn't be the case.

Both guys are senjutsu users,so they are immune to the disintegration effect but unlike juubito's case they should at least have the durability to tank the little remnants of the shockwave of their attack. Which is nothing surprising since Naruto/sasuke usually tank the shockwave of their classic Rasengan/childori clash(well except that last time).

It hit Naruto's team, and being Six Paths user doesn't grant you resistant to charged TSOs, and again,

I never said it does. I said Six path users are granted resistance to the disintegration and nullification effect. However they are completely capable of being harmed by literally anything else the TSB does.

and again, none of his attacks disintegrated anything, we clearly saw that during the SWRE stance.

No we didn't clearly see that, how can clearly you clearly see it? You can-probably because of the large shockwave and debris in the way. Shockwaves and debris which I just prove are also generated by a regular-disintegrating TSB. So no that scenario is not enough to sweep off an already established fact.

and during GWRE that the attack wasn't disintegrating anything but rather breaking them apart.

GWRE actually supports my point more considering how precise and well shaped the moon split was. Regular TSO also break things apart.

His whole body wasn't disintegrated cuz he was only hit by a part of it, the attack didn't consumed his entire body, it was fired out of their position and the expansion caught in the process half of his body, it didn't changed shape or anything of that sort, it was charged with chakra and disintegrated half of him

The explosion caught his entire body cuz it expanded like dozens of metres in all direction and juubito was right next to it, like 2 metres close to it, so it's impossible his entire body wasn't caught by it. And that was disintegration that was just regular damage from the explosion. If it was disintegration his entire body would have being lost. More on this later.

Nope, she was locked in something that was created using a charged TSO, those same things that can damage Six Paths user,

So.... I don't understand, isn't part of your arguments; charged TSB are supposed to damage six path users despite their resistance,(enter juubito scan.).....So if Hinata resistance wasn't working (according to you) wasn't she supposed to be damaged either way(path user or not).So doesn't this support my argument more; The charged TSB didn't damage her because she is immune to its passive disintegration and in this instance the charged TSB wasn't used as an attack(i.e explosion, blunt force e.t.c).

The SWRE as well hit the Moon crust and crushed it and spread across the Moon the rocks that were caught in the wind, nothing was disintegrated by that power .we also can clearly slow down the video and noticed that no rock inside the wind of the SWRE was being disintegrated, and several pieces of were spread all over the Moon.

How exactly can you be so sure nothing was disintegrated by SWRE. Because looking at these 3 scenarios,1,2,3 (EDIT: 123 )judging just from the visuals and only the Visuals of those panels,I can also conclude no disintegration happened there(which would be wrong BTW) because a lot of debris was kicked up by the attack (despite on a smaller scale) and no disintegration of rocks was actually shown. Now if I ask you to show me the disintegration occurring in those scenes, you probably can't, can you?

The only difference between those scenes and the moon scenes is;at the moon everything occurred on a larger scale so there's larger debris as opposed to smaller debris and the low gravity made the larger debris which were kicked up float stay afloat. Apart from this there's literally no difference and nothing to conclude that disintegration didn't take place

GWRE is creating by making the TSOs create a blade of light while they surround it, they by themselves are not shapeshifted into a technique.

I am not so sure about that, the numbers of TSB did decrease the times he performed GWRE and watching the video, I could clearly see some green orbs turn golden and lastly when Naruto palmed GWRE and nullified the beam completely ,there wasn't a single TSO left including the ones previously surrounding GWRE. implying the orbs where heavily involved in the attack.

No, it was toad sage mode, the Six Paths Sage Mode is proved as being SPSM by the lack of red pigmentation around the user's eyes as showed in Boruto the Movie, and in the War arc, the 4th Databook as well Naruto's Gaiden where he used both normal SM showing red pigmentation and some time later used his chakra mode that lacked any pigmentation around his body like BSM in the war arc. The manga confirms this, the novel confirms this, there is nothing such as trying to oppose both using as argument Naruto not staying still when 2 other sources debunk this notion making this as a counter argument null, the same person who wrote that thing about Naruto having to stand still is the same guy who wrote the databook saying he was using Sage mode chakra, the point of time-skip is to show the character evolution and him getting strong and showing better control over his power, this only proves Naruto's better control over his chakra now and his evolution seeing how effortless he attained natural energy and entered SM, @batmanplusjay already debated and explained all that stuff in other threads not sure what there is to argue here.

I am not omniscient, and know nothing about the threads you just referenced. However I agree with everything you just said-it made sense. I do have one problem, I get now,that he is using toad sage mode,but why is it strange when I said he's using SPSM, chronologically he should have it by now and IIRC back at VOTE he could use both senjutsu at once.

So why Toneri used GWRE to being with if according to you has disintegration powers just like TSOs ? Which it didn't btw as it was not made by TSOs. And Juubito's arm and half of his body was disintegrated by it when TSO chakra hit the user ?.

Now I love the question you asked because it shows everything wrong with the juubito argument.You're juggling two stances contradictory to your arguments. You keep saying juubito's body got disintegrated by his charged TSO,but contradictory to that Your stance is; charged TSO lose their disintegration.....But if they do lose their disintegration ,then why claim juubito's arm was "disintegrated" by his charged TSO???

To answer your question

1. GWRE is still very much capable of damaging Naruto,it was used a Kamehameha beam(sort of) Naruto is immune to only the disintegration effect but he wasn't resistant to everything else it does. When TSO are used as techniques,they are still a threat to six path users, They are still very much capable of damaging them despite their resistance. Which is why I brought previous instances

> like Obito having to defend himself from Madara's TSO,despite his immunity. It's not like Madara was aiming to disintegrate Obito (because that won't work), he was probably hoping to break a few ribs by hurling it to him at high speeds.

> Then there was Naruto vs jin Madara, where he kept using it as weapons against jin Madara

> and lastly there was juubito. Who used TSB as a sort of time bomb. And that damaged him despite his resistance.Which brings me to the second question........

2. Juubto wasn't disintegrated ,he got damaged by the explosion. Disintegration is hax and if juubito resistance wasn't working atm. then his entire body would have being erased by the TSO, and no the TSO didn't hit him at an angle or anything,The TSO bomb detonated right next to juubito and expanded omni-directionally and was several times his size.

As you can see it expanded omni-directionally(note the comic effect in the middle left panel) for at least a dozen meters, so there's no way juubito entire body wasn't engulfed by the explosion. And what's more you can tell that the explosion did indeed engulf his entire body from the Position of the TSB and the damage to the environment all around him he was right at the epicenter of the explosion.

So again juubito and by extension six path/senjutsu users are immune to TSO disintegration but not its attacks(i.e explosion, beams, blunt force, sharp force).

GWRE lacks the effects of TSOs and is not made by one.

GWRE was definitely made by TSO, The connections are too massive to ignore, The TSO are called back to create GWRE and at the final clash when Naruto destroyed GWRE all the TSO got destroyed, coincidence? I think not.

Obito only blocked their attacks cuz he couldn't teleport fast enough with Kamui and couldn't allow Madara to come after him.

Let me fix that for you.... Obito only blocked the attack cuz he couldn't teleport fast enough with Kamui and those high speed TSO had the force of a Rasengan(somewhat) and he'd like his body intact and alive.

He stabbed a sealed limbo by shaping the TSOs into rods when we already knew that Six paths power could inflict damage on them.

You're missing the point here, my only point is the TSO are useful despite jin Madara's resistance to its disintegration. They are useful as other attacks against six path users.

Madara being surprised Naruto could interact with his TSO despite him already being aware that he was a SM user ?

OK I guess.

He was in SM alone when that happened so he had no chakra cloak,

You're right I didn't remember that scene correctly.

and this doesn't changes the fact that he had Senjutsu travelling through his body and still was affected by the TSOs effects.

A weakness for regular sage mode it is then. Although i still think Madara had enough AP to wreck Minato disintegration or not and Edo is supposed to get nullified because it isn't senjutsu. But there's not enough info to go forward so I'll concede the sage mode argument.

I already showed to you they losing their disintegration power with Tobirama's stance despite the clone having a slow teleportation,

And I just showed you, that FTG is still faster than its disintegration as Minato proved. So that stance doesn't work.

SWRE causing no disintegration effect on the crust once it hit

Why did you assume SWRE caused no disintegration? Because it crushed the crust? Regular TSBs that 100% disintegrate do that too. So that doesn't work too

as well. when it hit Toneri and Naruto,

They are both six path users and are immune to its disintegration,Charged or not.

and GWRE is not a TSO used a special technique, the TSOs only are used to summon the blade and they keep existing attacking as some kind of ring around it.

Summon? I am not so sure, the number of TSO clearly decreased when GWRE activated and they all dissapered when it was destroyed. it's a TSO technique.

@saxz: I will not be able to keep engaging today for personal problems, and I don't really like keep continuing threads discussion 1 day after the event, so to clarify everything, send me a DM tomorrow and I will explain the Juubito thing and the TSO thing unless you lost interest on this discussion.