How would you make a movie where the villain wins?

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

In every Superhero movie, we always get movies where the hero win in the end, be it 1 or more movies leading up to the end. But how would you make a movie where the villain actually wins to make the movie be well made and watchable?

Avatar image for rukelnikovftw
RukelnikovFTW

6247

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 RukelnikovFTW  Online

Like... Infinity War?

Avatar image for socajunkie
SocaJunkie

9880

Forum Posts

1158

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Already happened: Law Abiding Citizen.

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Like... Infinity War?

No, I meant you end a series of movies with the bad guys as the winners. Infinity War leads up to Endgame where the heroes win in the end.

I meant that you make a few movies where you have the good guy lose in the last movie, not win..

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Already happened: Law Abiding Citizen.

That kinda movie wasn't what I asked about..

Avatar image for nn5
nn5

1806

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 nn5  Online
Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nn5 said:

@socajunkie: Did he really win?

He did achieve his goals, but lost in the end..

Avatar image for socajunkie
SocaJunkie

9880

Forum Posts

1158

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@byondeon: @nn5: I’m talking about Nick. I see him as the villain because Clyde was supposed to win in the original script but Jamie Foxx moaned and got the screen play changed to where his character won.

Furthermore for a guy with a wife and daughter he was awfully unsympathetic to Clyde and just acted like an unpleasant person throughout- sure he wasn’t actually the villain but from my perspective he was.

Avatar image for socajunkie
SocaJunkie

9880

Forum Posts

1158

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Oh superhero films...Watchmen then.

Avatar image for rockette
Rockette

6828

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By Rockette

Only way it would work be widely accepted would be like Mastermind.

Avatar image for army2442
Army2442

3705

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Watchmen already did it, aside from that that idea could work as long as the heroes failure was due to a personal flaw or other tragedy. A sympathetic villian would also be a lot easier to pull it off with as well.

You could also do it with a cool villian and lame heroes for them to stop.

Avatar image for thatduderox
thatduderox

1256

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for jojjimbo
jojjimbo

2775

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Horror movies do it all the time....so make your movie a Horror Film.

Avatar image for amazingspiderdan
AmazingSpiderDan

578

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Well if we're talking Superhero movies then I feel like go the route of Infinity War. Obviously this would've never happen in the MCU but imagine if Endgame ended with Thanos actually getting the stones and wiping out the universe like he said and after he snaps the credits just start rolling.

Avatar image for cocacolaman
CocaColaMan

1952

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Have the film not take in the "big picture." The hero's death will be just a part of the larger in-verse story.

Avatar image for DeathandGrim2
DeathandGrim

4961

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

The Ending of Arrow Season 1 was a good example of this

Avatar image for wut
Wut

7679

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By Wut

There are a ton... Se7en has the bad guy win, for instance, and while yes, John Doe dies he completed what he set out to do. There are a lot of movies like that, well known and beloved movies that it happens in like the baddie wins like No Country for Old Men which has one of my favorite villains of all time. Even Star Wars which is just Fantasy IN SPACE had the bad guys win twice [Episode 3 and Episode 5].

Its.. not as unpopular a move as many believe, that heart sinking feeling can be very rewarding and will bring people back to watch that movie again because emotions like that stick with you.

Avatar image for rukelnikovftw
RukelnikovFTW

6247

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 RukelnikovFTW  Online

@wut said:

There are a ton... Se7en has the bad guy win, for instance, and while yes, John Doe dies he completed what he set out to do. There are a lot of movies like that, well known and beloved movies that it happens in like the baddie wins like No Country for Old Men which has one of my favorite villains of all time. Even Star Wars which is just Fantasy IN SPACE had the bad guys win twice [Episode 3 and Episode 5].

Its.. not as unpopular a move as many believe, that heart sinking feeling can be very rewarding and will bring people back to watch that movie again because emotions like that stick with you.

There are many, but OP asked specifically for CBMs

Avatar image for wut
Wut

7679

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@rukelnikovftw: All those examples work. Civil War the bad guy 'won'. He broke up the avengers as he wanted to [he just didn't get everything he wanted]. Making a bad guy win in a CBM is no different then making a bad guy win in any other movie. CBMs are neither special nor unique.

Avatar image for rabumalal
RabumAlal

5479

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wut said:

@rukelnikovftw: All those examples work. Civil War the bad guy 'won'. He broke up the avengers as he wanted to [he just didn't get everything he wanted]. Making a bad guy win in a CBM is no different then making a bad guy win in any other movie. CBMs are neither special nor unique.

I was more looking for where the bad guy wins by taking over the world and ruling it with an iron fist or wiping out half the life in the universe and be unchallenged in terms of powers kind of ending..

Avatar image for wut
Wut

7679

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@byondeon: You already have a prime example of someone wiping out half the universe and being unchallenged... we didn't know how messed up he was until End Game.... Any 'Part 1' can end with the villain winning and seeming unstoppable.

However, at this point you don't want 'bad guys win' and instead just want another Infinity Wars.

Avatar image for scholomance
Scholomance

206

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Make him/her the protagonist of the story, like "The Usual Suspects" and "The Talented Mr. Ripley"

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wut said:

@byondeon: You already have a prime example of someone wiping out half the universe and being unchallenged... we didn't know how messed up he was until End Game.... Any 'Part 1' can end with the villain winning and seeming unstoppable.

However, at this point you don't want 'bad guys win' and instead just want another Infinity Wars.

I want the bad guys winning.. And we knew that Thanos would lose in Endgame when it came out. We knew that IW wasn't the end. I mean making a movie or series of movies where the bad guys win in the end. Like Doom becoming a dictator and killing off all who oppose him and destroy democracy across the world and then having the heroes all get defeated etc.. Is what I mean. Not that you have one movie where the bad guy "wins" and then you know it will come a sequel where he will get beat in the end..

Avatar image for onlyoneempereor
OnlyOneEmpereor

722

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Already happened: Se7en or The Dark Knight.

Avatar image for joshtaku
JoshTaku

487

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

A good way for a movie to end with the villain winning would be this;

their actions, though not successful, leave a deep and lasting impact on society as a whole and makes the heroes question whether what they did was actually wrong or if they were right all along.

A villain failing to achieve his goal but succeeding in sowing doubt and remorse has won in a sense.

Avatar image for wut
Wut

7679

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@byondeon: .. So? You want a movie with the 'bad guy winning and seeming to be unstoppable and wiping out like half the universe or conquering the world'. You want Thanos in Infinity War. The fact you knew, obviously, he was going to be beaten later changes nothing from the fact that, in that movie, he won.

What you are asking for isn't a movie. Its a really badly written fanfiction.

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wut said:

@byondeon: .. So? You want a movie with the 'bad guy winning and seeming to be unstoppable and wiping out like half the universe or conquering the world'. You want Thanos in Infinity War. The fact you knew, obviously, he was going to be beaten later changes nothing from the fact that, in that movie, he won.

What you are asking for isn't a movie. Its a really badly written fanfiction.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE END OF A MOVIE/FRANCHISE. NOT A SPECIFIC MOVIE IN A BIG MOVIE UNIVERSE THAT ISN'T FINISHED YET.

If Infinity War was the last movie in the MCU, then yes, that is what I meant, but it wasn't and never was meant to be...

Also, no, what I want to know is how a movie/franchise of movies would go about making a CBM where in the end, the villains beat the heroes and rule with an Iron Fist..

For example if Thanos would have won in the end, and that was the end of the MCU, instead of keep making those movies where the heroes beats him.

Avatar image for onlyoneempereor
OnlyOneEmpereor

722

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wut said:

@byondeon: .. So? You want a movie with the 'bad guy winning and seeming to be unstoppable and wiping out like half the universe or conquering the world'. You want Thanos in Infinity War. The fact you knew, obviously, he was going to be beaten later changes nothing from the fact that, in that movie, he won.

What you are asking for isn't a movie. Its a really badly written fanfiction.

Avatar image for rukelnikovftw
RukelnikovFTW

6247

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 RukelnikovFTW  Online

@byondeon said:
@wut said:

@byondeon: .. So? You want a movie with the 'bad guy winning and seeming to be unstoppable and wiping out like half the universe or conquering the world'. You want Thanos in Infinity War. The fact you knew, obviously, he was going to be beaten later changes nothing from the fact that, in that movie, he won.

What you are asking for isn't a movie. Its a really badly written fanfiction.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE END OF A MOVIE/FRANCHISE. NOT A SPECIFIC MOVIE IN A BIG MOVIE UNIVERSE THAT ISN'T FINISHED YET.

If Infinity War was the last movie in the MCU, then yes, that is what I meant, but it wasn't and never was meant to be...

Also, no, what I want to know is how a movie/franchise of movies would go about making a CBM where in the end, the villains beat the heroes and rule with an Iron Fist..

For example if Thanos would have won in the end, and that was the end of the MCU, instead of keep making those movies where the heroes beats him.

Such a movie cannot exist, because we don't know the future.

Let's assume, a movie comes out tomorrow that hits every nail of what you are asking for, and an year after that, a sequel comes out where the bad tyrant is overthrown and good guys win. Now, it doesn't qualify, but we had assumed it ticked every box of what you wanted.

We've reached an absurd, and the error came from assuming such a movie can exist.

Avatar image for havenless
Havenless

3292

Forum Posts

11

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By Havenless

Make the villain win at something that wasn't considered Heinous. Like Dr. Doom robs a bunch of banks and beats the crap out of the F4, only to find out he's financing a barrier machine to cloak Earth from Galactus's vision

Avatar image for Penguin-Dust
PenguinDust

10092

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Just out of curiosity why do you want to see a movie where evil triumphs over good and people suffer? I guess on a small scale you could do something if it was in the horror genre vein, but the only way you’ll see a standard action CBM is if it’s the “dark middle chapter” and good wins in the end.

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Just out of curiosity why do you want to see a movie where evil triumphs over good and people suffer? I guess on a small scale you could do something if it was in the horror genre vein, but the only way you’ll see a standard action CBM is if it’s the “dark middle chapter” and good wins in the end.

Because while CBM are good, they are very predictable.. Change it up a bit to make the genre be more interesting. Don't just have good win over evil. Make evil beat good for a change.

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@rukelnikovftw: Your assertion is wrong. Let's assume that you make a series of movies where the bad guy wins in the end. Let's say that people like it because it changes things up a bit and the ending was well made. Why would people want a sequel where the good guy win in the end?

Avatar image for rukelnikovftw
RukelnikovFTW

6247

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 RukelnikovFTW  Online

@byondeon said:

@rukelnikovftw: Your assertion is wrong. Let's assume that you make a series of movies where the bad guy wins in the end. Let's say that people like it because it changes things up a bit and the ending was well made. Why would people want a sequel where the good guy win in the end?

It doesn't matter the "why would they do it?", the possibility of it happening is what makes it impossible to have a movie like you ask for without knowing the future.

Avatar image for wut
Wut

7679

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@byondeon: Yes, you don't want a good movie. you don't want a thought provoking bad guy pulling out the win that pulls the carpet under your stomach feeling. You want a glorified snuff film that only Dr. Doom fanfiction writers would want. It should be obvious why no one is going to bother making such a movie.

Avatar image for mrnoital
Mrnoital

8574

Forum Posts

3547

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

I actually enjoyed Brightburn

Avatar image for guardiandevil83
Guardiandevil83

9433

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@byondeon: What about John Travola in Swordfish.

And Technically Micky and Mallory Nox in Natural Born Killers.

Avatar image for mrnoital
Mrnoital

8574

Forum Posts

3547

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

Just about everybody in Scarface was a bad guy

especially the cartel guys that won in the end

Avatar image for indomitableregal
IndomitableRegal

17884

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Didn't Watchmen do it? Though personally, I don't hold that movie in as high a regard as others seem to.

Avatar image for byondeon
ByondEon

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I was talking Superhero movies. I don't know why people can't read the OP before posting..