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#51 Posted by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

Speaking about Luke, you have to analyze his character evolution with the context surrounding his origin story in mind. He was made in the era where positive black role models were few and far between in mainstream media(kinda like how it is now) and blaxploitation was Hollywood's way of showcasing younger black men as main protagonists. Now that obviously accounts for his jive, but it also shaped him as a convict(wrongfully convicted of course) turned street -wise superhero fighting against crime and prejudice in all facets of his life. Now of course that rhetoric lost a lot of it's power over the years as blaxploitation died out, but his exploits as a black man fighting against institutional racism from the ground up were still rather prevalent. Hell his origin story brings to light the issues of mass black incarceration, a corrupt justice system and black disenfranchisement in a very epic way. Luke's character is far from transparent, and has stood for much more than just a simple caricature for aggressive black men.

Now as for how to write a black character, it depends entirely on what exactly you want this person to exemplify. Is he a younger black male struggling to find his balance in identity as a superhero and a black youth like Vergil Hawkins through profound internal monologue, or is he a stalwart advocate of black power who's views and ideals are juxtapositioned alongside other characters in thought provoking conversation like Sam Wilson? Is he supposed to convey a deeper rhetoric at all?

blaxploitation

Was the reason that Blaxploitation movies were made was because Black people got there civil rights and decided to make movies of black people just being black? I like a lot of blaxploitation movies kinda nice knowing the history behind it being a black person

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#52 Posted by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@herewegoagain said:
@jucaslucasa said:

@herewegoagain: Disliking white people just because they're white, and even disliking some blacks, just because they like whites, is just racism.

It got to the point where the other black member couldn't stand his outlook and told him to eff off.

Lol. Did he change his behavior after that?

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#53 Posted by deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3 (12864 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, judging from superhero comics...

racial stereotypes + electrical powers = black character

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#54 Posted by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@staticdwanyemcduffie: Pretty much. Prior to the 70's, black people were subjected to playing token characters and backseat roles in movies. We didn't have swuave lady killers like James Bond or badass no nonsense gunslingers like the Man with no Name, so we invented our own cool action stars in settings that we were familiar with. White people said, "If you don't like these roles then why don't you make your own?" So Gordon Parks created Shaft.

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#55 Posted by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@sprior93: How exactly is Static a stereotype?

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#56 Posted by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

@staticdwanyemcduffie: Pretty much. Prior to the 70's, black people were subjected to playing token characters and backseat roles in movies. We didn't have swuave lady killers like James Bond or badass no nonsense gunslingers like the Man with no Name, so we invented our own cool action stars in settings that we were familiar with. White people said, "If you don't like these roles then why don't you make your own?" So Gordon Parks created Shaft.

Black Belt Jones was a good one. Have you seen Blacula?

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#57 Edited by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@staticdwanyemcduffie: Not in full yet, but I've seen a decent amount. Black Belt Jones of course, Superfly, Cleopatra Jones. Across 110th Street is probably my favorite though admittedly greatly in part to Bobby Womack.

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#58 Edited by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

@staticdwanyemcduffie: Not in full yet, but I've seen a decent amount. Black Belt Jones of course, Superfly, Cleopatra Jones. Across 110th Street is probably my favorite though admittedly greatly in part to Bobby Womack.

I'm going watch Three times the hard way, Black Samurai. What are some of other good movies. Did watch Black Belt jones 2?

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#59 Posted by Thekillerklok (9967 posts) - - Show Bio

Well first you start by writing good characters... then you just happen to have one of them be black.

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#60 Posted by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

@sprior93: How exactly is Static a stereotype?

I think he is talking about Black Vulcan

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#61 Posted by lukespeedblitz (1609 posts) - - Show Bio

Have him say "nigga" a couple of times

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#62 Edited by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

Make Punisher then make him black for a week.

Other than that, just make Black Manta. Well, current Black Manta...

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#64 Posted by Cream_God (15519 posts) - - Show Bio

Dont emphasize their race. Just write them as a character, not a black character

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#65 Posted by Deathstroke52 (7006 posts) - - Show Bio
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#66 Posted by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio
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#67 Posted by Deathstroke52 (7006 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7134 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that when you ignore a characters nationality or race and just write them just to write them, that's where the idea of white washing comes in.

It honestly should just depend on where a character is raised/brought up and who they're raised by

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#69 Edited by StaticDwanyeMcduffie (7017 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace said:

I think that when you ignore a characters nationality or race and just write them just to write them, that's where the idea of white washing comes in.

It honestly should just depend on where a character is raised/brought up and who they're raised by

This to a certain extent

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#70 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think there is a formula....just tell a good story his skin color shouldn't matter if you give him a really good background story. It worked for the the Current Black Characters we have now.

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#71 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
@jucaslucasa said:
@herewegoagain said:
@jucaslucasa said:

@herewegoagain: Disliking white people just because they're white, and even disliking some blacks, just because they like whites, is just racism.

It got to the point where the other black member couldn't stand his outlook and told him to eff off.

Lol. Did he change his behavior after that?

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#72 Posted by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

As a black man, this is honestly a dumb question. There is no formula just like there is no "way to be black".

How about writing a character how you want. Don't feed societies ignorance.

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#73 Edited by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7: I originally thought so too until I saw an alarming rate of people claiming a character didn't act black enough by their own standards, or acted black the way the media portrayed which was also offensive..

Some people are okay with just stories and doesn't matter about the race

other ethnic groups that aren't white, say it's painfully obvious, and stands out like a sore thumb when a character that is supposed to be a certain race in a certain area does not act the way they would....like the whole, Detroit locals and Vancouver locals being written the EXACT same, point above.

It isn't just a one sided thing too. I have had people of my race ask me why I talk white. It's because I grew up in a white town in Canada lol I can't help it.

I think I just wanted to pick people's brains outside of the group of people I know, to see how many people care about story, or care about accuracy and traits a person in a certain area would have. and what exactly offends or doesn't offend them.

at the end of the day can't please them all.

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#74 Posted by Bruxae (18147 posts) - - Show Bio

How about just making a character first, and have him be black. Rather than write a character that is black. Race shouldn't really change who he is unless you intentionally want to use stereotypes, but you said yourself you want to avoid them.

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#75 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18257 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

As a black man I would just think about where I wanted to take them and map out a plan for them inside of the story.

Who cares if people say something is a stereotype or if it's racist ? It's your story at the end of the day. If you want to use the characters race in the story make it a good reason at least

Forget his color, and just make a good character.

I like these answers. Except that there should probably be a "her" in there somewhere :)

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#76 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#77 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18257 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Posted by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

How about just making a character first, and have him be black. Rather than write a character that is black. Race shouldn't really change who he is unless you intentionally want to use stereotypes, but you said yourself you want to avoid them.

I would normally advise people to write their character with the likeness of someone they know, if people get offended, then you could easily just claim you wrote about someone you know in person and that's how they act

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#79 Posted by Nite_Nite (2348 posts) - - Show Bio

@nite_nite: He views him as a white supremacist in one instance, and then a redneck in the other, it switches between what he really looks like, and how his mind sees him.

But that isn't racist and adds up to whats below

Hyperion does think he is high and mighty though

This

so that pissed him off as well, but that's how he sees all white people. There are instances where it shows what the white person really looks like, and then how "he" sees them. They are usually dressed up in KKK attire or something in his mind, even if in reality they are just standing their minding their own business.

This is what I meant by a "black" writer writing a "black". Whoever the writer was, he was diving deep into the mindset of what actually happens irl. He's not racist, it's just that he sees them for what they really are. An example. I'm in the army and for the most part we all wear the same uniform. But it's a white man's army where "blacks" are vastly outnumbered by white soldiers and officers. Where I'm at all day you'll see them in their cars riding around with confederate flags and trump quotes and stickers. We wear the same uniform, but even in the same uniform when we're around each other I still know they're racist. The writer simply visually showed what goes on in the mind of someone like nighthhawk.

I don't know the correct term then on how to describe someone who doesn't like a specific race,

prejudice

and only hunts down people of that same race.

You told me something along the lines that he only hunts down criminals akin to Batman

He is also disrespectful to that one race

thats prejudice

and hostile towards them.

He does all of the things I asked you before in my prior post? Also Hostile is such a vague word and can be used in any situation

What would he be categorized as. I am not being sarcastic but if he's not racist I am not sure what he technically is.

Prejudice

If someone was about to help you, until they found out what color you were, would that be classified as racist?

Thought you said he helps them and doesn't care? Anyways that would be prejudice. Racism is a system. One that set up one group of people in power over another. Anything that contributes to that system is racist. Anything that defends that system is racist. If his series takes place in America, with history akin to real life, then he's not racist- just prejudice. In all actuality he's combating that system.

he also dislikes black people who are on good terms with white people.

Too vague. There's this thing amongst us that was set up by white people during slavery. He likely just doesn't like sellouts and uncle toms like the majority of us irl, and likewise irl those types don't like or defend the majority of us; often protecting the white guy in a situation like the Zimmerman case. Sounds like this writer did a great job diving in the mindset I really will have to give this a read now.

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#80 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#81 Posted by Nite_Nite (2348 posts) - - Show Bio

@nite_nite:

racism

[mass noun]

1-Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonismdirected against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior: a programme to combat racism

Unfortunately for you, in the posts presented this wasn't the case shown to be

1.1-The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism

once again wasn't shown to be the case

I see nothing about it having to be a system . . .

You didn't have to as a victim of racism I've already broken it down to you, how it works and all.

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#82 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by SC (18141 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a formula? Eh sort of… like writing any good "_____" character though, context is important. We could take good superhero characters, and put them in good movie plots, and both would/could be ruined. Superman can be a good comic book character right? Rocky is a great movie? Superman being swapped with Rocky would make Superman look like a jerk, who lets professional human boxers break their hands against him, Rocky is now a movie about an massively powered being and not an underdog with fight. Context is important as far as making something good.

If you want to make a good black character, maybe try and create 30 of them. Make one thats really "racist" and stereotypical (whatever that is to you), make one thats basically "white" except for their skin color, make one that is a stereotype at first, but then you try and think of ways to make them less stereotypical as a challenge. Make one thats blind. Make a white character you think is great and then change their skin black. Make one that lives in France and one than lives in Samoa, and another thats a woman. Make one thats basically Wolverine, just black. Make one thats basically Storm, but she invented her powers and wears a suit. Make one based off Neil deGrasse Tyson, make one based off Bruce Lee. Then do similar with a gay character… and an Indian character, and a female character, and a Jamaican, and then an Australian thats also Muslim, and then a Korean thats 7 foot tall, and also mixed ethnicity, and atheist.

Then try and fit stories around them or… make the stories first and then try and insert them inside. The thing about fiction, and characters, is that there is a lot of inherent diversity, and aspects to them, and thats similar to reality. When you have a lot of something, it just tends to happen naturally, certain ideas, patterns, get spread a bit. In the original X-Men 05, its easy to accuse Jean Grey of being the token female… because the other characters with white, American males. Is their a token female now? Or a token minority character? Or token black character? Or token gay character? When Storm was introduced, it was beside a Japanese guy, Canadian, German, Russian, Irish guy, and Native American.

Do research and be aware of what you consider good too. Whose a black character created by a black man and how are they different to a black character created by a white woman? What has made a good black movie character? What has made a good black television character? Are they exactly the same, or are there differences?

Here's another way to switch things up. Think about national heroes in comics? Or certain countries and what heroes and villains come from them? Australia, Ireland, Russia, so on, many of the most prominent characters are… well walking stereotypes or just came off extremely one dimensional. Captain Kangaroo, Captain Boomerang, so on. Personally I liked Gateway, but… now if Gateway was the only Australian character, it wouldn't be a bad thing per say… but theres also Manifold, Lifeguard, Slipstream, Bishop, Pyro and the uh… time one, that I haven't read in Bendis X-Men I think? Has blue hair. I know some people who legit think Bishop is African American, so arguably… he isn't "Australian" enough, where as Pyro's accent is literally thicker than any fire he could produce.

So you created 30 black characters, that are all different. Some of them might speak a certain way, some might have a certain occupation or hobby. Which one do you personally think has the most potential? Which one seems most well balanced or interested? Oh but also what kind of story are you making? Is this a story about an American teenager, struggling with acceptance and being some sort of minority? Is it a story about dragons and cyber samurai set in the year 2056? Is it ensemble? Or one sole character focused? One of your thirty black characters might work better in different stories. One of my favorite black movie characters is Sho'Nuff the Shogun of Harlem, from the movie The Last Dragon, and him being a black American is something I view as integral to the character, or at least my appreciation for them. One of my other favorites is Blade, source material aside, him being black wasn't. Other people will feel differently.

A lot of people are posting, that you should just try to make a good character and ignore their skin color… and sometimes that can work. Except thats also like saying, how do you make a good veteran military soldier type character and then ignoring the "veteran, military and soldier" parts to write a good character. Which also doesn't mean that you have to make a veteran military soldier type who is a hardass who wants to shoot everything and chews and spits tobacco a lot. Not all gay people dress well and dance good, but if your gay character does, thats fine, if your gay character doesn't, thats fine too. Not everything has to be black and white, full stereotype or completely foreign/alien. I would be tempted to say if a character has depth and nuance they are good, but even really simple, and cliche characters can be good in the right story.

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#84 Posted by Nite_Nite (2348 posts) - - Show Bio
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#85 Posted by Manwhohaseverything (3818 posts) - - Show Bio

Make a 15 year old black girl become Iron Man. That's not "tromping all over your history" at all, you know that thing that so many folks complained about in the New52.

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#86 Posted by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@nite_nite: Thought you said he helps them and doesn't care? Anyways that would be prejudice. Racism is a system. One that set up one group of people in power over another. Anything that contributes to that system is racist. Anything that defends that system is racist. If his series takes place in America, with history akin to real life, then he's not racist- just prejudice. In all actuality he's combating that system.

This is a complicated one, and part of his character development.

If he knew you were white and in trouble he wouldn't help you, period.


He may accidentally save a white person because he didn't realize they were white until after the fact. That's what I meant by not care. He was already doing the deed, he just didn't realize the color until after the fact. He didn't care about them, he wasn't emotionally invested like he would be if the person was black.

which got him lectured by Hyperion and then finally the other black member who stopped associating with him. He always had some prejudice thing to say no matter the situation about white people, even if it wasn't relevant to the situation.



he then at least changed his views and started going after African American criminals depending on the crime. He beat up a black pimp and burned the halfway house down because his hoes made black people look bad. Same reason he thinks Stewart (the blur) is a house n*gro and dislike how friendly he is with people of that race.

Either way he may not be "racist" then but he certainly is hostile towards one specific race and hates them based only by color. He judges books by cover, which isn't a good quality for anyone to have, but from a story and character standpoint it's great.


I know he has a mini series out right now so I am curious if they toned down his blatant hate towards them, and how he feels about his counterpart being a white guy.

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#87 Edited by deactivated-57af58bda2d61 (5409 posts) - - Show Bio

Ideally like you would any other character. Good characters transcend the boundaries of race,gender, class and so on to speak to everyone. However let's not ignore the impact of a black male character can have some black males or any character can have on any one. We are all people yes and all strive to meet ideals, but our experiences are different, so it would be silly not to mention it in some manner.

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#88 Posted by w0nd (6803 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7 said:

As a black man, this is honestly a dumb question. There is no formula just like there is no "way to be black".

How about writing a character how you want. Don't feed societies ignorance.

if only it was that easy, because if you don't get their characters correct then you have a bunch of black people saying things like "have you ever met a black person from NY before? we don't act like that at all"

but in the end the only thing you can do is exactly what dbvse7 said, right a good character, base it off people you know if you have to, and tell a good story

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#89 Posted by God_Spawn (43065 posts) - - Show Bio

Write an interesting character that happens to be black with a good story, that should honestly be it, and don't care what the SJW's say. When a character becomes established enough the character's traits will be picked up on by fans and that is what they will enjoy. These things make up that character, and it's when something unnecessary happens or too big of a change then that can be detrimental if it is not an organic change. Spawn being my favorite black hero is a good example of this. McFarlane created a badass character, with a good story, a good design and it took off. Over the years, sure Spawn has had his up and downs, all characters will, but when Simmons was killed off and Jim Downing was brought in, it was a huge deal. Because Spawn is established as a black character and he was killed to bring on a white character that wasn't as interesting it took away a crucial part to the character. I had zero interest in Downnings run and got bored quite a bit through and when Simmons came back I marked out. Because that is who Spawn really is.

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#90 Edited by w0nd (6803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nite_nite said:
@herewegoagain said:

@nite_nite: He views him as a white supremacist in one instance, and then a redneck in the other, it switches between what he really looks like, and how his mind sees him.

But that isn't racist and adds up to whats below

Hyperion does think he is high and mighty though

This

so that pissed him off as well, but that's how he sees all white people. There are instances where it shows what the white person really looks like, and then how "he" sees them. They are usually dressed up in KKK attire or something in his mind, even if in reality they are just standing their minding their own business.

This is what I meant by a "black" writer writing a "black". Whoever the writer was, he was diving deep into the mindset of what actually happens irl. He's not racist, it's just that he sees them for what they really are. An example. I'm in the army and for the most part we all wear the same uniform. But it's a white man's army where "blacks" are vastly outnumbered by white soldiers and officers. Where I'm at all day you'll see them in their cars riding around with confederate flags and trump quotes and stickers. We wear the same uniform, but even in the same uniform when we're around each other I still know they're racist. The writer simply visually showed what goes on in the mind of someone like nighthhawk.

I don't know the correct term then on how to describe someone who doesn't like a specific race,

prejudice

and only hunts down people of that same race.

You told me something along the lines that he only hunts down criminals akin to Batman

He is also disrespectful to that one race

thats prejudice

and hostile towards them.

He does all of the things I asked you before in my prior post? Also Hostile is such a vague word and can be used in any situation

What would he be categorized as. I am not being sarcastic but if he's not racist I am not sure what he technically is.

Prejudice

If someone was about to help you, until they found out what color you were, would that be classified as racist?

Thought you said he helps them and doesn't care? Anyways that would be prejudice. Racism is a system. One that set up one group of people in power over another. Anything that contributes to that system is racist. Anything that defends that system is racist. If his series takes place in America, with history akin to real life, then he's not racist- just prejudice. In all actuality he's combating that system.

he also dislikes black people who are on good terms with white people.

Too vague. There's this thing amongst us that was set up by white people during slavery. He likely just doesn't like sellouts and uncle toms like the majority of us irl, and likewise irl those types don't like or defend the majority of us; often protecting the white guy in a situation like the Zimmerman case. Sounds like this writer did a great job diving in the mindset I really will have to give this a read now.

What's vague about it. He specifically dislikes Blur because he doesn't dislike white people. It adds to his character though, but the whole time he was judging people without knowing them ironically, including his own race.

One part of the world is not the same as others. Some people give white people a chance before hating them, if you act like they hate them and disrespect them why would they want to respect you back? If you disrespect them and they are still nice to you still and try to be understanding and you are STILL disrespectful, then that makes the person just an asshole.

It goes both ways, it applies to every race.

I understand people being held back knocked down and fed up, but at some point you have to stop attacking everyone who isn't your color. I highly doubt MLK "I have a dream" meant, I have a dream that white people would be nice to us, but we are allowed treat ALL of them like sh*t for the remainder of our years"

I would rather just get along with white people who are nice to me, it's less stressful, and I have a lot of great friends from different ethnicity and i love learning about where they come from and who they are. I imaging being angry at people for no good reason other than being born a different color very tiring..

And a lot of people are misinformed of what "racist" is then.

There is a crazy hobo that doesn't belong to a social class of any type, he just spouts derogatory words at people. We call him racist bill.

It would be pretty annoying if someone corrected us when we talk about him:

"man that old hobo is spouting racist shit again"

actually what you meant to say is he is prejudice, he actually is just calling you the N word, and since he isn't part of any sort of system he technically isn't racist :)

that would get real old real quick

you know what they meant, judging people without knowing them is bad, period, call it what you want, but it's a crappy thing to do.

I am not sure if you actually dislike white people and if you are the type to make up excuses for people who are clearly racist but "it doesn't count because they aren't white" but sooner or later people have to learn to get along, and you can't really do that without TRYING to get along. Cut the ones who aren't actually being rude to you some slack and give them a chance to be nice to you.

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#91 Posted by warrior100 (2163 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: if only they could make remake the movies with Al simmons it would great with the right director behind it and Actor.

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#92 Posted by Noone1996 (11671 posts) - - Show Bio

Make them replace an originally white character and then give them the same name as the original character in question. Everybody will love it.

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#93 Posted by Noone1996 (11671 posts) - - Show Bio

Make them replace an original character and then give them the same name as the original character in question. Everybody will love it.

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#94 Posted by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio

Write an interesting character that happens to be black with a good story, that should honestly be it, and don't care what the SJW's say. When a character becomes established enough the character's traits will be picked up on by fans and that is what they will enjoy. These things make up that character, and it's when something unnecessary happens or too big of a change then that can be detrimental if it is not an organic change. Spawn being my favorite black hero is a good example of this. McFarlane created a badass character, with a good story, a good design and it took off. Over the years, sure Spawn has had his up and downs, all characters will, but when Simmons was killed off and Jim Downing was brought in, it was a huge deal. Because Spawn is established as a black character and he was killed to bring on a white character that wasn't as interesting it took away a crucial part to the character. I had zero interest in Downnings run and got bored quite a bit through and when Simmons came back I marked out. Because that is who Spawn really is.

the whole Jim thing made no sense to me, that arc was poorly written and thigns happened for no reason, and if it needed an answer well "because divine power"

Why did the ground open up and take jim

"because divine power"

I liked that jim was around since the first issue but had no name. I wonder if they planned on that or if todd was just lie "remember that white dude that al inhabited his body? Lets just say that was jim

either way I am glad Al is back

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#95 Posted by BlackWind (9790 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't think there is a such thing as a formula to making an interesting minority character. I can't really claim to know everything on the subject, but I think it's best to just write a decent character and if their ethnicity happens to be a focal point of some of their stories, given either their surroundings, or just what they're into at the moment, then that's fine as long as it's written with respect and taste.

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#96 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (17985 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: glad to see someone has some sense

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#97 Posted by herewegoagain (65 posts) - - Show Bio
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#98 Edited by ThePreface (1436 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion, could be Black, Latino/a, Asian, Arab, Easter-European whatever....

Write a good character first. Then go back and add in the cultural flavor and flourishes. Because if the character can stand on itself then you succeeded. The authentic "flavoring" is that extra goodness to make the character stand out further from other characters.

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#99 Posted by blackagar (950 posts) - - Show Bio

Make a good character, color him black....done.