How strong is Shiryu of the Rain?

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Mortein

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For a long time, probably more than a decade, I expected that eventually we'll see Red Hair pirates united with Mihawk fighting and losing against the BB pirates, before the latter loses against the SHs, and as a consequence of that fight Luffy becomes a PK and Zoro becomes the strongest swordsman.

In a fight against Shanks and Mihawk, I thought, BB would defeat Shanks and Shiryu would defeat Mihawk, and win the title which would soon after be snatched by Zoro.

Those were my expectations a decade ago, but in the meantime, Shanks stocks have risen drastically, and he kinda pulls Mihawk along, while Shiryu was kinda left behind.

Shiryu was stated to be equal to Magellan, and at the time that seemed more impressive than it does today.

Magellan one shot the entire BB pirates, and they as a collective are at least around YC1 level, considering BB alone took out Ace. He was also chasing Croc, Jinbei, Iva, Luffy, Inazuma and bunch of other characters who were also as a collective at least around the YC1, and they knew they would have no chance against Magellan.

And he did all of that while being sick, suffering from food poisoning. Shiryu was equal to a healthy Magellan.

Considering all of this, pre time skip Shiryu should have been at least high YC1 or a low admiral level.

We have seen that over the 2 years of time skip, BB pirates have gotten vastly stronger. I'm guessing this is also the case for Shiryu. And then after the TS he also got a DF power.

This is the illustration of the strongest commanders of their respective groups.

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In an interview regarding this illustration, Oda said this

D: Hello, Odacchi! Looking at the cover page of Chapter 1031, it seems like Bepo is the No. 2 of the Heart Pirates, right!? I was surprised because I thought that Penguin, Shachi, and Bepo were all tied for No. 2! Are you saying that Bepo (with Sulong?) is the strongest between them? P.N. Pudding-ya

O: That cover, huh? Similar to Zoro, not all of those characters have the title of first mate. I selected the No. 2s as I saw fit. Usually, Shachi and Penguin are more dependable, but those two—who have seen Bepo's Sulong form—are no match for Bepo in terms of fighting power...! I acknowledge him.

Which confirmed that he was drawing the 2nd strongest members in each respective crew, and considering Kuzan is a part of the BB pirates, that should make Shiryu at least a low Yonko level.

It seems obvious that the story is moving in the direction where Luffy defeats BB and becomes the PK.

Considering the promise Zoro gave to Luffy and Luffy's response, how it would make him look bad if Zoro was anything less than the WSS, Zoro will become the WSS around the same time when Luffy becomes the PK.

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All of this makes me think that a few arcs from now Zoro will fight Shiryu for the title of the WSS.

Considering his rate of progress, in a few arcs Zoro will be well within the Yonko level territory, and his opponent is guaranteed to give him an extreme diff fight, so if his opponent is bound to be Shiryu he should also be a yonko level.

Lastly, in a recent fight against Garp, we have seen Shiryu inflicting the first serious damage to Garp, which began his downfall. Also we haven't seen how Garp was defeated, just the outcome, and I'm suspecting that Shiryu played a much greater role than we can tell at the moment, as he was right there, as close to Garp as Kuzan was.

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It is my guess that a few arcs from now, BB will defeat Shanks, Shiryu will defeat Mihawk and Kuzan will defeat Backman, and then Luffy will defeat BB, Zoro will defeat Shiryu and Sanji will defeat Kuzan.

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Konohana

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Yeah, Shiryu’s a monster.

I also don’t think that Zoro’s final opponent for the title of the WSS will be Shiryu, but once the Straw Hats battle with Blackbeard and his pirates (inevitably) - he’ll be who he fights clearly.

It would also suck if Shanks died before he got his hat back - and meets Luffy in the New World. Is it impossible? No. But pretty unlikely? Yes, lol.

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Mortein

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@konohana: Don't you think that right after defeating BB Luffy will become the PK?

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Konohana

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@mortein said:

@konohana: Don't you think that right after defeating BB Luffy will become the PK?

Of course.

I mean, does what I said contradict that?

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nassergrant19

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Damn, that’s a crazy prediction.

Nice work

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Mortein

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@konohana: If Luffy becomes a PK after defeating BB, and we can predict that on the same day Zoro will defeat Shiryu, either Zoro will become the WSS by defeating Shiryu, or there will be some prolonged period of time when Luffy will be a PK, but Zoro will be just some strong swordsman.

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deactivated-669c01751aa1e

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I’m a little iffy on using that illustration to compare Shiryu to Kuzan. Wasn‘t Kuzan only very recently revealed to be an actual member of the BB pirates (as in, less than 10 chapters ago)? I know that by the time the cover page spread was made, it was known that he was an ally of them, but only recently was he revealed to be an actual crew mate. At least I’m thinking, whether Aokiji is the second strongest or not, I don’t think Oda would reveal him as number 2 at that time (if he is the second strongest member).

Know what I mean?

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Mortein

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@mike_fowler: I know, which is why that illustration is not a definite proof that Shiryu is stronger than Kuzan, but it's still a peace of evidence.

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Konohana

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@mortein said:

@konohana: If Luffy becomes a PK after defeating BB, and we can predict that on the same day Zoro will defeat Shiryu, either Zoro will become the WSS by defeating Shiryu, or there will be some prolonged period of time when Luffy will be a PK, but Zoro will be just some strong swordsman.

Zoro’s final opponent is Mihawk, lol.

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Mortein

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@konohana said:

@mortein said:

@konohana: If Luffy becomes a PK after defeating BB, and we can predict that on the same day Zoro will defeat Shiryu, either Zoro will become the WSS by defeating Shiryu, or there will be some prolonged period of time when Luffy will be a PK, but Zoro will be just some strong swordsman.

Zoro’s final opponent is Mihawk, lol.

The final war begins after the OP is found.

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Zoro becomes the WSS around the same time as Luffy becomes the PK

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If these 2 statements are true, Zoro will have a few more opponents after becoming the WSS

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Xebec

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stronger than beckman

my opinion = fax

ur opinion = creditless

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Konohana

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@mortein:

If these 2 statements are true, Zoro will have a few more opponents after becoming the WSS

Maybe.

We’ll have to see.

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Mortein

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@konohana: the problem is most people seem to agree with those 2 statements, and still think Mihawk will be Zoro's final opponent, while failing to realize they are mutually exclusive.

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#15  Edited By socajunkie  Moderator

Zoro fighting anybody other than Mihawk for the WSS title would be disappointing, that confrontation has been hyped for over 25 years at this point.

As for Shiryu, he should be on the upper echelon of First Mate strength, above King and Marco but just below Beckman as of right now.

Also: ‘Which confirmed that he was drawing the 2nd strongest members in each respective crew’

RIP Sanji fanboys.

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Mortein

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#16  Edited By Mortein
@socajunkie said:

Zoro fighting anybody other than Mihawk for the WSS title would be disappointing, that confrontation has been hyped for over 25 years at this point.

As for Shiryu, he should be on the upper echelon of First Mate strength, above King and Marco but just below Beckman as of right now.

Also: ‘Which confirmed that he was drawing the 2nd strongest members in each respective crew’

RIP Sanji fanboys.

Idk, ever since he became his master, Zoro cutting Mihawk seems like it would be in a bad taste. Typically in fiction a student will surpass his master by defeating someone who killed his master.

But I guess it's possible that it will be a free for all fight at Loadstar island, between 4 yonko crews and Marines, in which case Zoro could fight Mihawk while Luffy is fighting BB.

Shiryu is stronger than we think. I guess the central pillar of my hypothesis is that I think Zoro becomes the WSS on the same day Luffy becomes the PK, and Luffy fights BB for the title of the PK on the same day Zoro will fight Shiryu, so that fight must be for the title of the WSS, which means Shiryu would have to defeat Mihawk before this fight happens.

But if this is not the case, then idk.

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Mortein

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#19  Edited By Mortein
@mike_fowler said:

I’m a little iffy on using that illustration to compare Shiryu to Kuzan. Wasn‘t Kuzan only very recently revealed to be an actual member of the BB pirates (as in, less than 10 chapters ago)? I know that by the time the cover page spread was made, it was known that he was an ally of them, but only recently was he revealed to be an actual crew mate. At least I’m thinking, whether Aokiji is the second strongest or not, I don’t think Oda would reveal him as number 2 at that time (if he is the second strongest member).

Know what I mean?

I took a look at what we knew about the Kuzan joining the BB pirates at that point in time.

Nowadays we know that he was already a commander, and Oda must have known it as well at the time of making that illustration.

But all we the readers knew was this

Loading Video...

Gorosei stated that Kuzan sided with the BB.

Jesus stating how Kuzan is no different than Shiryu, but he still don't thrust him. I'm assuming he meant to say that just like Shiryu he used to work for the WG, but is now a BB commander.

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Mortein

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#20  Edited By Mortein

One more thing we knew at that point in the story was that there are 10 Titanic captains supporting BB.

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To summarize

We knew there are 10 captains,

It was strongly implied that Shiryu is the strongest captain

It was strongly implied that Kuzan is that 10th captain, but it wasn't 100% confirmed yet.

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captain_inverse

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#21  Edited By captain_inverse

Admiral level

Blackbeard (The final villian) will have his top 3 generals be admiral tier.

Luffy will fight BB then

SH monster trio(jinbe, zoro, sanji) will fight top commanders. Admiral tier is the next level for the SH trio.

This will mean Mihawk is slightly above Admiral, which is in line with zoros ambition.