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#1 Edited by Mister_Surreal (10243 posts) - - Show Bio

In the finale of "Jessica Jones" season 1 the main antagonist, Killgrave, became full-powered. It was suggested by Jessica that he could convince the entire city to jump off of the highest building. Keep in mind, this would be done simply by him telling them to do so. If this is the case, how powerful would he be compared to other MCU characters?

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#2 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

If Mantis could put thanos to sleep, Someone who could do 1,000,000 times more things than mantis could have stopped thanos.

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#3 Edited by Mister_Surreal (10243 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6133 posts) - - Show Bio

If Mantis could put thanos to sleep, Someone who could do 1,000,000 times more things than mantis could have stopped thanos.

Not necessarily, Kilgrave doesn't really have a power "per se", it was either some weird "contagious disease" or "spores" or something of the sort, basically a chemical process designed by humans. We don't know if they would have any effect all on Thanos.

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#5 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: I don't believe in powerlevels. Powerlevels are meaningless and 99.9% arbitrary. Can he pull apart a moon? No. Can he physically punch anyone to death? No. can he kill 99.9% of the people he comes in contact with in the MCU? yes.

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#6 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw said:
@soaringturkeys said:

If Mantis could put thanos to sleep, Someone who could do 1,000,000 times more things than mantis could have stopped thanos.

Not necessarily, Kilgrave doesn't really have a power "per se", it was either some weird "contagious disease" or "spores" or something of the sort, basically a chemical process designed by humans. We don't know if they would have any effect all on Thanos.

Just because it's explained it doesn't mean it's less potent.

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#7 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6133 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw said:
@soaringturkeys said:

If Mantis could put thanos to sleep, Someone who could do 1,000,000 times more things than mantis could have stopped thanos.

Not necessarily, Kilgrave doesn't really have a power "per se", it was either some weird "contagious disease" or "spores" or something of the sort, basically a chemical process designed by humans. We don't know if they would have any effect all on Thanos.

Just because it's explained it doesn't mean it's less potent.

It does indeed, being a disease means it may have no effect on a different species, just how in our world certain diseases don't affect dogs but they do affect humans, and vice versa.

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#8 Edited by Mister_Surreal (10243 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@mister_surreal: I don't believe in powerlevels. Powerlevels are meaningless and 99.9% arbitrary. Can he pull apart a moon? No. Can he physically punch anyone to death? No. can he kill 99.9% of the people he comes in contact with in the MCU? yes.

I don't mean power levels as in Dragon Ball Z scales, bu rather what "weight class" a character would be in. In Killgraves's, case I'm asking where you would place him among other characters in the MCU. When I think of power levels, I think of how much damage someone can do. And for the record, I don't like "power scales" either. Also, he technically he can punch people to death, it's just very difficult.

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw: if anything it would be more potent. If you want to argue it on a disease point of view, they have would have 0 protection for it. The whole South American weakness idea.

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: ... Pulling me up on the whole me saying he can't punch... Kinda unnecessary

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#11 Posted by Stalin-Is-Steel (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

He's very powerful but lacks any durability at all. He is a glass cannon boi

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#12 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6133 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw: if anything it would be more potent. If you want to argue it on a disease point of view, they have would have 0 protection for it. The whole South American weakness idea.

Its a different phisiology, Thanos not human

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#13 Posted by Mister_Surreal (10243 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys: I'm sorry that you feel that way, I just wanted to point it out. And sorry in advance if you find this apology unnecessary :].

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#14 Posted by rogueshadow (29252 posts) - - Show Bio

Kilgrave's power works via a virus. Thanos isn't human, there's no evidence his powers would do anything to him.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: How does mantis then affect 4 kinds of humanoids? How can SW affect both humans & asgardians with her powers? It seems completely illogical that the most powerful "mind control" person we see in the MCU can't then do something that 2 weaker people cannot do.

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#16 Edited by AngelJax (11648 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: How does mantis then affect 4 kinds of humanoids? How can SW affect both humans & asgardians with her powers? It seems completely illogical that the most powerful "mind control" person we see in the MCU can't then do something that 2 weaker people cannot do.

Because Kilgrave's mind control is a virus that has only affected humans.

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#17 Posted by Lan_Fan (13210 posts) - - Show Bio

He'd make Thanos his own personal bodyguard.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if his powers worked on Thanos, it'd be no use. The Mad Titan would get blitzed and sparked out by Daredevil.

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#19 Posted by mimisalome (5342 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably as powerful as the full force of an MCU neutron star.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: except there's evidence to say that humanoid biology in mcu is interchangeable. And even more evidence to say that in all if the mcu, there has been no instance where powers have not worked because of biology.

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#21 Edited by rogueshadow (29252 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@rogueshadow: How does mantis then affect 4 kinds of humanoids? How can SW affect both humans & asgardians with her powers? It seems completely illogical that the most powerful "mind control" person we see in the MCU can't then do something that 2 weaker people cannot do.

Because Wanda's/Mantis' powers are psionic, Mantis is an empath and Wanda's powers are derived from an Infinity stone. Kilgrave's powers work in a completely different way than Wanda's and Mantis', there's nothing illogical about it. Kilgrave's abilities have explicitly been stated to be the product of a virus he emits.

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#22 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: point me to where in any movies or MCU or quote that states, only empaths and psionics powers can affect different races, Viruses however is the ONLY one exemption in the whole of MCU that can only be affected by one race.

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#23 Posted by IAmTheLaw (769 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@rogueshadow: How does mantis then affect 4 kinds of humanoids? How can SW affect both humans & asgardians with her powers? It seems completely illogical that the most powerful "mind control" person we see in the MCU can't then do something that 2 weaker people cannot do.

Because Wanda's/Mantis' powers are psionic, Mantis is an empath and Wanda's powers are derived from an Infinity stone. Kilgrave's powers work in a completely different way than Wanda's and Mantis', there's nothing illogical about it. Kilgrave's abilities have explicitly been stated to be the product of a virus he emits.

And the fact that it worked on Thor seemed to be a surprise. I doubt Wanda's powers would work on an enraged Hulk, she had to use them on Banner initially. Kilgrave doesn't have powers on her level, I wouldn't think, even at his most powerful. His powers stopped working on Jessica, already. There's no instance where I think they'd work on Thanos.

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#24 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthelaw: ... Wanda being a more powerful manipulator? Sorry but Wanda needs contact and could only affect one person a a time and can only do small things like make their head imagine different things.

Kilgrave can make an entire city police department, not just forget but think killing people in front of their face is a practical joke.

Wandas powers stopped working after a few knockings to the head after ten minutes. Heck even the mind stone in staff format - didn't affect someone as longterm as killgrave

Kilgraves powers stopped after years of rape and physical and mental torture. It literally took years of perpetual torture for 1 person to not be affected.

There has been nothing in the mcu to suggest even remotely that there is such a thing as "this can only affect one species"

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

As powerful as those he surrounds himself with

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#26 Posted by IAmTheLaw (769 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthelaw: ... Wanda being a more powerful manipulator? Sorry but Wanda needs contact and could only affect one person a a time and can only do small things like make their head imagine different things.

Pretty sure she had people in Sokovia fleeing the city in bunches.

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#27 Edited by KingTchalla03 (676 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys: Just because other telepaths and empaths in the MCU have shown the capability to do control aliens, That doesn’t mean Kilgrave can do it to. Kilgrave doesn’t have telepathy. It’s literally a virus that has only been shown to affect humans.

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthelaw: You are right completely forgot that scene.

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#29 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingtchalla03 said:

@soaringturkeys: Just because other telepaths and empaths in the MCU have shown the capability to do control aliens, That doesn’t mean Kilgrave can do it to. Kilgrave doesn’t have telepathy. It’s literally a virus that has only been shown to affect humans.

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans. Yet you have added a restriction on the power that was never quoted to have any sort of restriction even though this restriction has never surfaced absolutely anywhere in the mcu but you just assume so because.. head canon.

So if this 1 power in all of the MCU is the only power in your head that has a restriction then I can assume several other things using your head logic.

Iron Fist has never punched an alien before as well. I can surmise that Chi does not work on aliens and a chitauri would be beat IF because his power has never shown the ability to affect aliens.

--

So the choice is yours. If you want to be biologically accurate then understand that host range is not even a defining factor a virus. So you cannot in anyway play off host range as a factor when the main properties that define a virus should have disqualified Killgraves powers outright.

OR

Biological accuracy does not play any major factor in the MCU. I would accept that Thanos would have stronger immunities to Killgrave. That's an argument that I could talk with. But to say that it just wouldn't work because virus don't work like that.

Cite. Virus host range is not a defining factor of a virus.

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=504&Sectionid=40999951

The host range for a given virus may be broad or extremely limited" It is certainly non defining.

http://www.biologydiscussion.com/viruses/properties-of-viruses-with-diagram/5685

Shoes an example of narrow, mammalial and one that transcendents to even mammals, plants & insect.

https://www.atsu.edu/faculty/chamberlain/website/tritzmed/LECTS/PROPERT.HTM

Host range isn't even mentioned.

http://www.onlinebiologynotes.com/properties-of-virus/

Host range isn't even mentioned.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy didn't play a factor.

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy played a factor

Null

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#30 Posted by The_Magister_2 (87 posts) - - Show Bio

As powerful as those he surrounds himself with

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#31 Posted by rogueshadow (29252 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: point me to where in any movies or MCU or quote that states, only empaths and psionics powers can affect different races, Viruses however is the ONLY one exemption in the whole of MCU that can only be affected by one race.

Kilgrave has literally never been shown to use his power on a non-human being. Until he does, there's no reason to assume his virus can. Stop bringing Mantis and Wanda into this, their powers are completely different, a virus is purely physiological, which is why I'm drawing a difference between them. Virus' which can effect us might not do anything to a dog or cat for example.

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#32 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans. Yet you have added a restriction on the power that was never quoted to have any sort of restriction even though this restriction has never surfaced absolutely anywhere in the mcu but you just assume so because.. head canon.

So if this 1 power in all of the MCU is the only power in your head that has a restriction then I can assume several other things using your head logic.

Iron Fist has never punched an alien before as well. I can surmise that Chi does not work on aliens and a chitauri would be beat IF because his power has never shown the ability to affect aliens.

your whole cat dog analogy is moot since viruses don't work like viruses work irl. There is absolutely no backbone to a virus being able to control humans whatsoever yet here we are. So don't tell me that it suddenly has one property of a real life viruses to apply to your cat dog analogy. Again head cannon. Nothing in the Mcu has suggested this is a scientifically accurate power. Nothing. Nothing in the MCU has even remotely suggested to only work on one sort of being.

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#33 Edited by rogueshadow (29252 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@rogueshadow:

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans. Yet you have added a restriction on the power that was never quoted to have any sort of restriction even though this restriction has never surfaced absolutely anywhere in the mcu but you just assume so because.. head canon.

So if this 1 power in all of the MCU is the only power in your head that has a restriction then I can assume several other things using your head logic.

Iron Fist has never punched an alien before as well. I can surmise that Chi does not work on aliens and a chitauri would be beat IF because his power has never shown the ability to affect aliens.

your whole cat dog analogy is moot since viruses don't work like viruses work irl. There is absolutely no backbone to a virus being able to control humans whatsoever yet here we are. So don't tell me that it suddenly has one property of a real life viruses to apply to your cat dog analogy. Again head cannon. Nothing in the Mcu has suggested this is a scientifically accurate power. Nothing. Nothing in the MCU has even remotely suggested to only work on one sort of being.

It's barely even an analogy... it's actually a virus. You can't just assume a virus will hop between every species going unless it's explicitly stated or shown to do so. The burden of proof is on you, I'm done going in circles here.

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#34 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (7316 posts) - - Show Bio

Mantis power comes from her mind while Killgraves is a virus who can be fought off by enhanced humans...

Not really comparable

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelanddcfan24: fought off by one enhanced human who was exposed to him for years and years.*

Fixed that for you

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#36 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: Actually the burden off proof falls on you. I've explain and given a multitude of examples that negate your theory that interspecies genetics somehow plays a part. It has never played a part in any aspect of the MCU. I asked for proof first. If you are gonna spout biology. then prove to me that biology has played a part in the mcu. and for every time it has played a part, (which unless you prove so it hasn't) then ill give you 10 examples of when it hasn't played a part.

But sure, since you can't provide any proof then yeah were clearly just going around in circles. have a good day.

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#37 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (7316 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys: it was more like a year if Jessica can build an immunity to him hes not infecting Thanos... believing he can is pure idiocy

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#38 Edited by rogueshadow (29252 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@rogueshadow: Actually the burden off proof falls on you. I've explain and given a multitude of examples that negate your theory that interspecies genetics somehow plays a part. It has never played a part in any aspect of the MCU. I asked for proof first. If you are gonna spout biology. then prove to me that biology has played a part in the mcu. and for every time it has played a part, (which unless you prove so it hasn't) then ill give you 10 examples of when it hasn't played a part.

But sure, since you can't provide any proof then yeah were clearly just going around in circles. have a good day.

You haven't given evidence of anything... psionic abilities are in no way related to an actual, physiological virus. Something Kilgrave's powers are explicitly stated to be derived from. Your line of reasoning is really absurd, you're dealing in non sequiturs.

"Wanda can so Kilgrave can as well" - Except he's never shown he can and his powers are completely different, the comparison is moot, what other characters in the MCU can do is irrelevant. His abilities are unrelated and based in physiology. He has to literally infect his victim as his powers are rooted in a virus that he emits (which in all likelihood manipulates hormones like his comic-book counterpart, but that's just guessing).

Okay, I'm really done this time, agree to disagree after this.

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: That's head canon. Nothing IRL acts like that in any given synonym of a virus. So I don't understand why a universe where we literally ignore every single biological fact, Which I've stated * including how virus's work yet here you guys are up in arms about a minute part of a virus - a non defining part as well. And for the record a lot of virus's can infect other species.

but meh agree to disagree.

So the choice is yours. If you want to be biologically accurate then understand that host range is not even a defining factor a virus. So you cannot in anyway play off host range as a factor when the main properties that define a virus should have disqualified Killgraves powers outright.

OR

Biological accuracy does not play any major factor in the MCU. I would accept that Thanos would have stronger immunities to Killgrave. That's an argument that I could talk with. But to say that it just wouldn't work because virus don't work like that.

Cite. Virus host range is not a defining factor of a virus.

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=504&Sectionid=40999951

The host range for a given virus may be broad or extremely limited" It is certainly non defining.

http://www.biologydiscussion.com/viruses/properties-of-viruses-with-diagram/5685

Shoes an example of narrow, mammalial and one that transcendents to even mammals, plants & insect.

https://www.atsu.edu/faculty/chamberlain/website/tritzmed/LECTS/PROPERT.HTM

Host range isn't even mentioned.

http://www.onlinebiologynotes.com/properties-of-virus/

Host range isn't even mentioned.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy didn't play a factor.

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy played a factor

Null

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#41 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (7316 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys: you don't have much knowledge on viruses do you? Different viruses attack different things as there are viruses that impact certain bacteria while they ignore human cells as the future in treating infection is human developed viruses that attack the infection and ignore human cells as bacteria becomes more resistant to antibiotics hes never anything besides a human and has zero feats to say he can control Thanos, Thor, or any other alien especially beings who care thousands of years old

His powers are completely different than SW and Mantis SW emits energy from her body from an infinity stone and Mantis' powers are psionic and most likely can impact anything or sentient life

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#42 Edited by deactivated-5c8c48323d2d9 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelanddcfan24: yeah. No your entire argument is moot. and here you are telling me I don't know how virus's work? laughable.

Thanks for playing.

That's head canon. Nothing IRL acts like that in any given synonym of a virus. So I don't understand why a universe where we literally ignore every single biological fact, Which I've stated* including how virus's work yet here you guys are up in arms about a minute part of a virus - a non-defining characteristic of a virus that is not intrinsic for it to be a virus." And for the record a lot of virus's can infect other species.

So the choice is yours. If you want to be biologically accurate then understand that host range is not even a defining factor a virus. So you cannot in anyway play off host range as a factor when the main properties that define a virus should have disqualified Killgraves powers outright.

OR

Biological accuracy does not play any major factor in the MCU. I would accept that Thanos would have stronger immunities to Killgrave. That's an argument that I could talk with. But to say that it just wouldn't work because virus don't work like that. HA.

Cite. Virus host range is not a defining factor of a virus.

https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=504&Sectionid=40999951

The host range for a given virus may be broad or extremely limited" It is certainly non defining.

http://www.biologydiscussion.com/viruses/properties-of-viruses-with-diagram/5685

Shoes an example of narrow, mammalial and one that transcendents to even mammals, plants & insect.

https://www.atsu.edu/faculty/chamberlain/website/tritzmed/LECTS/PROPERT.HTM

Host range isn't even mentioned.

http://www.onlinebiologynotes.com/properties-of-virus/

Host range isn't even mentioned.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy didn't play a factor.

every single other power in the MCU universe affects everyone. Even inanimate objects like the obedience disk that should only work on beings with a nervous system still manages to electrocute something made out of rocks. Asgardian medical technology was understood by a human who just knew human biology. An asgardian and a nobody can use the same eye replacement. Flip we've seen Kree harvesting fruits and veges, humans and every sort of race eat the same food interchangebly. Peter can also pleasure more than 3 kinds of beings. Heck alcohol has affected other races. We've seen 5 different races drink and get intoxicated the same. We've seen a human nurse a wounded inhuman in the god awful inhumans.

Examples of moments in the MCU where biological accuracy played a factor

Null